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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TAILG8R
If this pretend break off of the P4 happens there is now way the bowl game structure, qualifiers, etc stay the same.
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I don't see the bowls disappearing, theres too much money and sponsors involved.
What is happening thus far is the top bowls are getting converted into playoff games, but no bowls are disappearing.
If there is a split, I'd imagine the bowls will split too. The conferences likely keep their current bowl tie-ins for the most part, and P4 bowls go with the P4, and current G5 bowls would stay with the G5.
There is talk now of the PAC Rose Bowl slot moving over to B10. It won't disappear no matter the outcome.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
I'll take Chip Kelly's idea to solve the out-of-control realignment whirlwind: https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/1...alignment-idea
In short - no conference affiliation for football in the P4. They're all like Notre Dame and build their own schedules with their own media contracts. Travel doesn't matter since they all charter anyway. There's no automatic qualifiers to the playoffs - only the best teams are selected (no G5 teams though - they'd have their own playoff/championship).
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Professor Chaos
I'll take Chip Kelly's idea to solve the out-of-control realignment whirlwind:
https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/1...alignment-idea
In short - no conference affiliation for football in the P4. They're all like Notre Dame and build their own schedules with their own media contracts. Travel doesn't matter since they all charter anyway. There's no automatic qualifiers to the playoffs - only the best teams are selected (no G5 teams though - they'd have their own playoff/championship).
That does European football one better on the free market front.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
I don't see the bowls disappearing, theres too much money and sponsors involved.
What is happening thus far is the top bowls are getting converted into playoff games, but no bowls are disappearing.
If there is a split, I'd imagine the bowls will split too. The conferences likely keep their current bowl tie-ins for the most part, and P4 bowls go with the P4, and current G5 bowls would stay with the G5.
There is talk now of the PAC Rose Bowl slot moving over to B10. It won't disappear no matter the outcome.
If there is a split, I just don't see how 38 bowl games would be able to be maintained. The G5 will struggle to make ends meet without CFP money and it's likely their media deals will be reduced (at least as a percentage of overall budget). They will not be able to in any way foot the bill for bowl games. We have heard that many of the bowls actually cost the teams money. They only make money for the bowl organizer (which in large part has included ESPN). We know how their finances are doing. You're probably right that bowls remain. I just don't see 38 remaining if a split actually happens.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
I'm starting to buy in to the "SMU to ACC" steam. SMU has money. They'd rather be a P than a G. They've reportedly said they'd forego a share for five years if they got an offer. They must've saved up all that Dickerson, James, Pony Express money from the 1980s.
SMU: At the forefront of NIL since 1982.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
I don't see the bowls disappearing, theres too much money and sponsors involved.
What is happening thus far is the top bowls are getting converted into playoff games, but no bowls are disappearing.
If there is a split, I'd imagine the bowls will split too. The conferences likely keep their current bowl tie-ins for the most part, and P4 bowls go with the P4, and current G5 bowls would stay with the G5.
There is talk now of the PAC Rose Bowl slot moving over to B10. It won't disappear no matter the outcome.
I think they eventually go away. The more they are used for playoff games, the less value they have as a bowl game. Fans won't make a week of it because they could have to travel multiple weeks. The teams won't do all the festivities around the bowl. They will eventually go to hosted sites for playoffs. Then you'll have the 3rd and 4th place conference teams playing in the top bowl games, which will lose sponsors. Once the G5 playoff is started fewer bowls will be needed. They will still exist but at a much smaller scale.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
I'm starting to buy in to the "SMU to ACC" steam. SMU has money. They'd rather be a P than a G. They've reportedly said they'd forego a share for five years if they got an offer. They must've saved up all that Dickerson, James, Pony Express money from the 1980s.
SMU: At the forefront of NIL since 1982.
Linked a The Athletic article in another thread, from that article talking about ACC expansion " SMU is willing to forgo any conference revenue distribution for five years, as sources have indicated"
EDIT: Also "ACC commissioner Jim Phillips is a proponent of adding the Bay Area schools and SMU, and the league initially considered adding up to seven Pac-12 schools last week after Oregon and Washington joined the Big Ten."
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
What is Oregon thinking? Have they ever even beaten a big ten team?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
scottietohottie
What is Oregon thinking? Have they ever even beaten a big ten team?
Just in the horseshoe less than two years ago ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=ohio...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IndyBison
I think they eventually go away. The more they are used for playoff games, the less value they have as a bowl game. Fans won't make a week of it because they could have to travel multiple weeks. The teams won't do all the festivities around the bowl. They will eventually go to hosted sites for playoffs. Then you'll have the 3rd and 4th place conference teams playing in the top bowl games, which will lose sponsors. Once the G5 playoff is started fewer bowls will be needed. They will still exist but at a much smaller scale.
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The cities and sponsors will do everything they can to preserve the bowls in some fashion, just too much money involved.
Benefits the schools and conferences as well, and fills TV time slots during the holidays.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Mandel at the Athletic has a mailbag response and article on why ultimately, the top 24-32 FBS teams will leave and form a mini NFL style league
Its a good read. He points to a book on how the English premier league formed, and why FBS is headed the same place now.
https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/...951616512?s=20
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
reformedUNDfan
Und is barely an fcs level program. There is no world in which grand forks is more appealing than SDSU
No outdoor football game in December if UND somehow managed to make it to the conference championship game.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Mandel at the Athletic has a mailbag response and article on why ultimately, the top 24-32 FBS teams will leave and form a mini NFL style league
Its a good read. He points to a book on how the English premier league formed, and why FBS is headed the same place now.
https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/...951616512?s=20
I guess we’re just ignoring the bit where there’s access for everyone else to the league via promotion/relegation. They also share something like 20 percent of their TV revenue to the EFL to support the rest of the pyramid and participate in two in season tournaments that support the lower leagues as well.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bisonaudit
I guess we’re just ignoring the bit where there’s access for everyone else to the league via promotion/relegation. They also share something like 20 percent of their TV revenue to the EFL to support the rest of the pyramid and participate in two in season tournaments that support the lower leagues as well.
Exactly
Kelly's idea of two playoffs [P5 and G5 (no FCS)] is much more likely IMO
These guys would never accept relegation, or sharing for that matter, and that's the only way this model would work
Greed will bite them in the ass at some point
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bisonaudit
I guess we’re just ignoring the bit where there’s access for everyone else to the league via promotion/relegation. They also share something like 20 percent of their TV revenue to the EFL to support the rest of the pyramid and participate in two in season tournaments that support the lower leagues as well.
This is America audit. Land of opportunity for the haves. No way the have nots are getting a sniff of any money, access, branding eventually. Why would the fat cats do something stupid like give away money for the good of anyone else when they could just get fatter themselves. They’ve proven that they’ll wreck everything in an attempt to make just a little bit more money, why would they stop now?
I’ve always said that the P5 wouldn’t break off due to the lawyer fees that would happen on the anti-trust aspect. With how much money is getting thrown around I don’t think those fees are going to be getting in the way for much longer.
Tin foil hat time: the P5 been wanting to break away for a long time. Couldn’t break away due to anti-trust issues. Their plan b which we’re now seeing is to wreck the college athletics landscape enough to be able to validate a claim that major reform is in order. That reform just so happens to be creating an exclusive super league where they get all the money. They learned their lesson from European soccer - don’t fix something that isn’t broken, break it first.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
This isn't futboll it's futboll Americano eh!
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
This is America audit. Land of opportunity for the haves. No way the have nots are getting a sniff of any money, access, branding eventually. Why would the fat cats do something stupid like give away money for the good of anyone else when they could just get fatter themselves. They’ve proven that they’ll wreck everything in an attempt to make just a little bit more money, why would they stop now?
I’ve always said that the P5 wouldn’t break off due to the lawyer fees that would happen on the anti-trust aspect. With how much money is getting thrown around I don’t think those fees are going to be getting in the way for much longer.
Tin foil hat time: the P5 been wanting to break away for a long time. Couldn’t break away due to anti-trust issues. Their plan b which we’re now seeing is to wreck the college athletics landscape enough to be able to validate a claim that major reform is in order. That reform just so happens to be creating an exclusive super league where they get all the money. They learned their lesson from European soccer - don’t fix something that isn’t broken, break it first.
This will likely come in stages, and take a little while longer, but all the moves support it
- NIL and transfer portal help the schools with the most money harvest all the talent, everyone else becomes farm league for them
- consolidation of power schools with increasingly large conference payouts ... now the schools with only $30m feel poor next to those with $70m payouts. This is escalating the mad rush for consolidation. G5 makes peanuts next to this, and won't be able to keep up.
- already talk of reworking the CFP before it starts, removing the G5 slot, and making it all at large bids the top power conferences can soak up. They will use the first blowout between Alabama/OSU and the G5 champ as an excuse to dump that spot, and say there are "more deserving" teams. Any real G5 access to the CFP will disappear in 3 years when they rework that contract.
The current model just won't be sustainable on this path, the only question is what comes next for those outside the P2 or P3.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
This will likely come in stages, and take a little while longer, but all the moves support it
- NIL and transfer portal help the schools with the most money harvest all the talent, everyone else becomes farm league for them
- consolidation of power schools with increasingly large conference payouts ... now the schools with only $30m feel poor next to those with $70m payouts. This is escalating the mad rush for consolidation. G5 makes peanuts next to this, and won't be able to keep up.
- already talk of reworking the CFP before it starts, removing the G5 slot, and making it all at large bids the top power conferences can soak up. They will use the first blowout between Alabama/OSU and the G5 champ as an excuse to dump that spot, and say there are "more deserving" teams. Any real G5 access to the CFP will disappear in 3 years when they rework that contract.
The current model just won't be sustainable on this path, the only question is what comes next for those outside the P2 or P3.
Could the NCAA step in then and say for the remaining schools left out in the cold that the NCAA will form a new division. Upper FCS (us) and the remaining schools will be in that 2nd tier and play a league with a champion.... Just like FCS now D2 D3 and everyone else... If the big boys want a separation from everyone else but want to keep the NCAA name then they should HAVE to play at least 1 lower level game a year with a large payout to that school...
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
This will likely come in stages, and take a little while longer, but all the moves support it
- NIL and transfer portal help the schools with the most money harvest all the talent, everyone else becomes farm league for them
- consolidation of power schools with increasingly large conference payouts ... now the schools with only $30m feel poor next to those with $70m payouts. This is escalating the mad rush for consolidation. G5 makes peanuts next to this, and won't be able to keep up.
- already talk of reworking the CFP before it starts, removing the G5 slot, and making it all at large bids the top power conferences can soak up. They will use the first blowout between Alabama/OSU and the G5 champ as an excuse to dump that spot, and say there are "more deserving" teams. Any real G5 access to the CFP will disappear in 3 years when they rework that contract.
The current model just won't be sustainable on this path, the only question is what comes next for those outside the P2 or P3.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't see how they are going to pull that off without a revolt. I understand that money is the driving force in this but if they don't acknowledge that a good portion of that money is coming from fans of the Universities outside of the top 40 or so programs than they are completely missing the mark on what I think makes college football so popular. They've totally leaned into the other way of thinking on the basketball side of things and realize that giving all conferences a path to the tournament makes the entire thing more popular, even if the majority of mid-major or below teams have really no chance of getting past the first round. The interest is greater and generates more money because of this. They could have a 16 team tournament of all at large picks that would likely result in a similar outcome, but the casual interest outside of the 16 teams would be reduced greatly. I just don't see how essentially the same decision makers (Presidents and ADs) can go entirely in the opposite direction with Football and be so arrogant as to think that by excluding that number of fans that they are going to continue to generate the overall interest. Makes no sense to me, but what do I know.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigLakeBison
I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't see how they are going to pull that off without a revolt. I understand that money is the driving force in this but if they don't acknowledge that a good portion of that money is coming from fans of the Universities outside of the top 40 or so programs than they are completely missing the mark on what I think makes college football so popular. They've totally leaned into the other way of thinking on the basketball side of things and realize that giving all conferences a path to the tournament makes the entire thing more popular, even if the majority of mid-major or below teams have really no chance of getting past the first round. The interest is greater and generates more money because of this. They could have a 16 team tournament of all at large picks that would likely result in a similar outcome, but the casual interest outside of the 16 teams would be reduced greatly. I just don't see how essentially the same decision makers (Presidents and ADs) can go entirely in the opposite direction with Football and be so arrogant as to think that by excluding that number of fans that they are going to continue to generate the overall interest. Makes no sense to me, but what do I know.
Don't know if this will succeed long term or not. Will all the walmart fans of the top 30-50 schools keep them on prime time television with all the money being funneled their way?
If you listen to interviews with power conference presidents, ADs, and coaches - almost all of them say this is where things are going, and they are going all out to make the cut and not be left out. FSU is calling it an existential crisis for them to remain in the ACC with "only" $35-40m payouts. They are busy raising $200-300m so they can leave ACC and join SEC or B1G. Every school seems to see SEC/B1G as the final 2 life boats out.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigLakeBison
I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't see how they are going to pull that off without a revolt. I understand that money is the driving force in this but if they don't acknowledge that a good portion of that money is coming from fans of the Universities outside of the top 40 or so programs than they are completely missing the mark on what I think makes college football so popular. They've totally leaned into the other way of thinking on the basketball side of things and realize that giving all conferences a path to the tournament makes the entire thing more popular, even if the majority of mid-major or below teams have really no chance of getting past the first round. The interest is greater and generates more money because of this. They could have a 16 team tournament of all at large picks that would likely result in a similar outcome, but the casual interest outside of the 16 teams would be reduced greatly. I just don't see how essentially the same decision makers (Presidents and ADs) can go entirely in the opposite direction with Football and be so arrogant as to think that by excluding that number of fans that they are going to continue to generate the overall interest. Makes no sense to me, but what do I know.
Basketball has infinitely more parity and a history of all the schools being involved. Football has had like 3 unique champions in the last decade and a history of a ridiculously exclusive bowl system.
Like I said, with as broken as they’ve made the landscape people are already begging for someone to fix it. Look no further than the schools who have the most money and power to make sure they’re the ones saving the day with a system that gives them the most money.
For the record I agree with you, I think it has a good chance of failing. Large part of the reason there’s so much money in TV is because Mr. Fresno State fan wants to watch the championship game of “his division”. I’m just telling you what they’re trying to accomplish with all of this funny business.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
Basketball has infinitely more parity and a history of all the schools being involved. Football has had like 3 unique champions in the last decade and a history of a ridiculously exclusive bowl system.
Like I said, with as broken as they’ve made the landscape people are already begging for someone to fix it. Look no further than the schools who have the most money and power to make sure they’re the ones saving the day with a system that gives them the most money.
For the record I agree with you, I think it has a good chance of failing. Large part of the reason there’s so much money in TV is because Mr. Fresno State fan wants to watch the championship game of “his division”. I’m just telling you what they’re trying to accomplish with all of this funny business.
Parity in basketball comes from the fact that there is more games and more chances for non-conference games. If football were to be similar in its approach from a scheduling standpoint, I think there might be similar types of outcomes. It's definitely harder in football due to the number of players needed to field a team but we as NDSU fans know better than anyone that the difference between team 15 and 60 in the country isn't that big. There are a handful of teams and a handful of programs that are head and shoulders above the rest but beyond that there is more parity than the P5 want to admit so they game the system to keep it that way. It's harder for them to do that in basketball because that perception has been broken down by the NCAA tournament and the number of upsets that happen regularly. They are doing everything they can to maintain that perception in football.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Don't know if this will succeed long term or not. Will all the walmart fans of the top 30-50 schools keep them on prime time television with all the money being funneled their way?
If you listen to interviews with power conference presidents, ADs, and coaches - almost all of them say this is where things are going, and they are going all out to make the cut and not be left out. FSU is calling it an existential crisis for them to remain in the ACC with "only" $35-40m payouts. They are busy raising $200-300m so they can leave ACC and join SEC or B1G. Every school seems to see SEC/B1G as the final 2 life boats out.
They say it's where things are going because it's where their big money boosters want it to go and that's what lines their pocketbooks. It's not in any way visionary or rational or sustainable. I really hope that the people that are driving this receive some significant backlash if it plays out the way you describe.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigLakeBison
Parity in basketball comes from the fact that there is more games and more chances for non-conference games. If football were to be similar in its approach from a scheduling standpoint, I think there might be similar types of outcomes. It's definitely harder in football due to the number of players needed to field a team but we as NDSU fans know better than anyone that the difference between team 15 and 60 in the country isn't that big. There are a handful of teams and a handful of programs that are head and shoulders above the rest but beyond that there is more parity than the P5 want to admit so they game the system to keep it that way. It's harder for them to do that in basketball because that perception has been broken down by the NCAA tournament and the number of upsets that happen regularly. They are doing everything they can to maintain that perception in football.
SDSU and FAU making the final four last year has nothing to do with # of non conference games and everything to do with the fact that all you need is 10 players, a coach and a gym to be a D1 basketball team. Football teams have more assistant coaches than basketball teams have players.
There are schools that have played for championship games in recent years that belong to schools that can’t field a football team.
Bringing it back to the topic at hand, for whatever reason the power schools are purposely wrecking college athletics so they can rebuild it to their liking.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
SDSU and FAU making the final four last year has nothing to do with # of non conference games and everything to do with the fact that all you need is 10 players, a coach and a stadium to be a D1 basketball team. Football teams have more assistant coaches than basketball teams have players.
There are schools that have played for championship games in recent years that belong to schools that can’t field a football team.
I admitted that it is much easier to achieve parity in basketball than football in my previous email. However, the idea that the P5 and the G5 are miles apart in terms of on field performance is completely ridiculous. The Gophers have gotten back to respectability in recent years but they would likely struggle to win the MWC or AAC. However, in football there is this belief that the B1G is so far superior to the MWC or the AAC that the 3rd place team in the B1G West would absolutely dominate those conferences. It's just not true. Fans don't believe this bullshit with basketball because the non-conference and the NCAA tournament dispels that myth. In football the P5 power keeps those perceptions in place by limiting the opportunities the G5 have to ever dispel that myth. There are almost never G5 home vs. P5 away games. There are very few neutral site G5 vs. P5 games, even in the bowl season. The non-conference schedule is 4 games and that leaves very few interconference matchup opportunities between the P5 and G5, especially if the G5 wants to protect their bowl eligibility. And even with this control, the G5 routinely competes with and beats the P5. Maybe not the "elite" in the P5 but as I said in my previous email the difference between team #15 in the country and team #60 is not that large and there are numerous G5 teams that fill that 15-60 range. Yet the P5 would have you believe they are utterly incapable of putting up a fight and that we should limit the G5 access because they are inferior. Alabama and Georgia are different but they aren't the benchmark for who or why a team should be allowed in a playoff. Often times Alabama and Georgia are curb stomping members of their own conference. The entire thing is a masterful con job that plays into all of this realignment bullshit.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Sagarin basketball rankings: there are 9 teams outside the P5 in the top 25
Sagarin football rankings: #25 Tulane is the only non P5 team (besides ND) in the top 25
Remember that the G5 ain’t all that either in football. Most years in football we’d be the top or close to the top team. While being a mediocre P5 school.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
Sagarin basketball rankings: there are 9 teams outside the P5 in the top 25
Sagarin football rankings: #25 Tulane is the only non P5 team (besides ND) in the top 25
Remember that the G5 ain’t all that either in football. Most years in football we’d be the top or close to the top team. While being a mediocre P5 school.
Is that because the P5 is that much better or because they have little to no opportunities to change that. NDSU not getting FBS-P5 games is not unique to us. The middling P5 teams aren’t seeking out games with the top of the G5. The myth is protected at all costs. Realignment is further protecting it and a full split makes it forever truth. The P5 has advantages and they are statistically better as a group but if given opportunities similar to basketball I think the results would be less skewed in their favor. It’s not outlandish to think that a 20 team football tournament with 10 conference champions and 10 at large selections would have upsets occur in the same proportion as they do within the basketball tournament. Reality is that there can only be 11 players on the field for each team at a time and even if the P5 team has more depth of talent on their roster top to bottom their top 11 can and will outperform the other teams top 11 in individual games.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
scottietohottie
Are we fbs yet bros?
Almost, Lakes just has a few more texts to send.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
The cities and sponsors will do everything they can to preserve the bowls in some fashion, just too much money involved.
Benefits the schools and conferences as well, and fills TV time slots during the holidays.
Except they'll be getting Iowa State and Maryland rather than Wisconsin and Texas A&M. And fewer people will be watching because more focus will be on the playoff games and may even be in st the same time. And the teams playing in those bowls will continue to have players opt out to prepare for the draft. It will be hard for bowls to continue with any size along with a playoff system. We are already seeing it with a 4-team playoff and it will only get worse when that expands.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...6157717504
If this is true, it basically is an admission that Stanford and Cal will be picking the rest of the conference. In this scenario, the AAC and MWC would likely lose a number of schools.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSUguy
What did it say? Looks like it got deleted
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
What did it say? Looks like it got deleted
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/s...31046157717504
I think the first version had a snarky comment about Stanford from OSU prez, but I might be mixing up tweets
I would say it looks like they will try to rebuild?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Seems that way, they’ve also hired Oliver Luck to be new commissioner type role. (Officially consultant for now)
https://x.com/jeffmedley13/status/16...bQhDgWeqSXZc2w
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
I see NDSU is hiring a bunch of creative / media types......they must be going FBS! LOL.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gully
I see NDSU is hiring a bunch of creative / media types......they must be going FBS! LOL.
well the ones that left all went FBS
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
on MWC board some Oregon Whacko proposed this.
BREAKING: Pacific American deal may be done in principal. Hard ball dealings at end. American will dissolve to pay NO exit fees, and 11 AAC teams will receive invites to the PAC. UNT, UAB, UTSA, Rice and FAU will receive lower shares to pay for SDSU, CSU & Boise for a 2025 start.
NDSU backfills MWC
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El_Chapo
on MWC board some Oregon Whacko proposed this.
BREAKING: Pacific American deal may be done in principal. Hard ball dealings at end. American will dissolve to pay NO exit fees, and 11 AAC teams will receive invites to the PAC. UNT, UAB, UTSA, Rice and FAU will receive lower shares to pay for SDSU, CSU & Boise for a 2025 start.
NDSU backfills MWC
I just want to go on record to say that I had nothing to do with this.
