2025 Sagarin Says

[NI4NI]

Just to drive home Mr Meaty's point, they are a legit top 25 team based on Sagarin. FCS is horrible.

No they're not. This just illustrates how wrong it is to keep us captive in FCS.
FCS would be just fine if they allowed the schools that have outgrown it to move along. We (and a few others) are simply messing it up for everyone else.

[Professor Chaos]

No they're not. This just illustrates how wrong it is to keep us captive in FCS.
FCS would be just fine if they allowed the schools that have outgrown it to move along. We (and a few others) are simply messing it up for everyone else.

I think the top of the FCS is as good as it used to be but that group that used to be from about #5 or #6 onwards is a lot worse. Go back and look at some of the old "Sagarin Says" threads on here and you'll see the overall ranks of the top teams is pretty similar to where NDSU, SDSU, and Montana St are today but once you get to #10 in the FCS or so they used to still be in around #100 overall and now they're down to into the 120s and down further from there.

Here's the table from a Hammersmith post back on December 15th, 2013 showing the overall rankings for the top 25 FCS teams per Sagarin:

 1   24  North Dakota State
 2   37  Eastern Illinois
 3   66  Towson
 4   74  Villanova
 5   76  SE Louisiana
 6   77  Eastern Washington
 7   79  New Hampshire
 8   85  William & Mary
 9   87  Northern Iowa
10   91  Jacksonville State
11   93  South Dakota State
12   98  Southern Illinois
13   99  Montana
14  101  Missouri State
15  102  Sam Houston State
16  104  Coastal Carolina
17  110  Harvard
18  112  Princeton
19  114  Liberty
20  116  Youngstown State
21  118  Maine
22  119  Cal Poly
23  122  Tennessee State
24  123  Illinois State
25  124  McNeese State

Compare that to what Hammerhead just posted earlier this morning:

38	North Dakota State   	AA	76.42	MISSOURI VALLEY
48	South Dakota State   	AA	74.55	MISSOURI VALLEY
73	Montana State        	AA	69.39	BIG SKY
80	Tarleton State       	AA	68.01	WESTERN ATHLETIC
81	Montana              	AA	66.23	BIG SKY
91	North Dakota         	AA	63.95	MISSOURI VALLEY
106	Southern Illinois    	AA	61.90	MISSOURI VALLEY
110	Harvard              	AA	60.71	IVY LEAGUE
114	UC Davis             	AA	60.16	BIG SKY
115	Austin Peay          	AA	59.80	WESTERN ATHLETIC
121	Idaho                	AA	58.94	BIG SKY
123	Northern Arizona     	AA	58.36	BIG SKY
124	Mercer               	AA	58.32	SOUTHERN
127	Tennessee Tech       	AA	58.05	BIG SOUTH/OVC
130	Youngstown State     	AA	57.76	MISSOURI VALLEY
133	Incarnate Word       	AA	57.23	SOUTHLAND
136	Yale                 	AA	56.80	IVY LEAGUE
138	West Georgia         	AA	56.51	WESTERN ATHLETIC
140	SE Louisiana         	AA	56.14	SOUTHLAND
141	Illinois State       	AA	56.10	MEAC
143	Sacramento State     	AA	55.97	BIG SKY
144	South Dakota         	AA	55.82	MISSOURI VALLEY
145	Stephen F. Austin    	AA	55.59	SOUTHLAND
146	Monmouth-NJ          	AA	55.28	COASTAL
147	Dartmouth            	AA	55.12	IVY LEAGUE

#16 in the FCS Coastal Carolina back in 2013 would be #7 in the FCS these days. Only 13 of the top 25 FCS teams today would've been ranked high enough to be top 25 FCS teams in 2013 per Sagarin.

[Hammerhead]

14 of the top 100 teams at the end of 2007 were FCS teams. UNI was the only team in the top 50 at 41 so maybe Sagarin isn't that accurate.

[NI4NI]

I think the top of the FCS is as good as it used to be but that group that used to be from about #5 or #6 onwards is a lot worse. Go back and look at some of the old "Sagarin Says" threads on here and you'll see the overall ranks of the top teams is pretty similar to where NDSU, SDSU, and Montana St are today but once you get to #10 in the FCS or so they used to still be in around #100 overall and now they're down to into the 120s and down further from there.

Here's the table from a Hammersmith post back on December 15th, 2013 showing the overall rankings for the top 25 FCS teams per Sagarin:

 1   24  North Dakota State
 2   37  Eastern Illinois
 3   66  Towson
 4   74  Villanova
 5   76  SE Louisiana
 6   77  Eastern Washington
 7   79  New Hampshire
 8   85  William & Mary
 9   87  Northern Iowa
10   91  Jacksonville State
11   93  South Dakota State
12   98  Southern Illinois
13   99  Montana
14  101  Missouri State
15  102  Sam Houston State
16  104  Coastal Carolina
17  110  Harvard
18  112  Princeton
19  114  Liberty
20  116  Youngstown State
21  118  Maine
22  119  Cal Poly
23  122  Tennessee State
24  123  Illinois State
25  124  McNeese State

Compare that to what Hammerhead just posted earlier this morning:

38	North Dakota State   	AA	76.42	MISSOURI VALLEY
48	South Dakota State   	AA	74.55	MISSOURI VALLEY
73	Montana State        	AA	69.39	BIG SKY
80	Tarleton State       	AA	68.01	WESTERN ATHLETIC
81	Montana              	AA	66.23	BIG SKY
91	North Dakota         	AA	63.95	MISSOURI VALLEY
106	Southern Illinois    	AA	61.90	MISSOURI VALLEY
110	Harvard              	AA	60.71	IVY LEAGUE
114	UC Davis             	AA	60.16	BIG SKY
115	Austin Peay          	AA	59.80	WESTERN ATHLETIC
121	Idaho                	AA	58.94	BIG SKY
123	Northern Arizona     	AA	58.36	BIG SKY
124	Mercer               	AA	58.32	SOUTHERN
127	Tennessee Tech       	AA	58.05	BIG SOUTH/OVC
130	Youngstown State     	AA	57.76	MISSOURI VALLEY
133	Incarnate Word       	AA	57.23	SOUTHLAND
136	Yale                 	AA	56.80	IVY LEAGUE
138	West Georgia         	AA	56.51	WESTERN ATHLETIC
140	SE Louisiana         	AA	56.14	SOUTHLAND
141	Illinois State       	AA	56.10	MEAC
143	Sacramento State     	AA	55.97	BIG SKY
144	South Dakota         	AA	55.82	MISSOURI VALLEY
145	Stephen F. Austin    	AA	55.59	SOUTHLAND
146	Monmouth-NJ          	AA	55.28	COASTAL
147	Dartmouth            	AA	55.12	IVY LEAGUE

#16 in the FCS Coastal Carolina back in 2013 would be #7 in the FCS these days. Only 13 of the top 25 FCS teams today would've been ranked high enough to be top 25 FCS teams in 2013 per Sagarin.

You're probably right (I'm probably wrong). Perhaps the commoners are being affected harder than we are through the port hole?

[Mr Pep Band]

Why are FCS teams "worse" today than 10-15 years ago?

Transfer portal and bigger schools poaching the better players from the division to go play with the big boys. In addition to NIL monies making the move even more tempting for the schools who don't have millions of dollars.

Granted this is not the sole reason for lower ratings by Sagarin this year or in recent years, but I'm confident it has a decent part to play in results.

[bisonaudit]

Why are FCS teams "worse" today than 10-15 years ago?

Transfer portal and bigger schools poaching the better players from the division to go play with the big boys. In addition to NIL monies making the move even more tempting for the schools who don't have millions of dollars.

Granted this is not the sole reason for lower ratings by Sagarin this year or in recent years, but I'm confident it has a decent part to play in results.

Also, a lot of good FCS programs have gone up and added scholarships. So that is talent disappearing from FCS.

[NI4NI]

Also, a lot of good FCS programs have gone up and added scholarships. So that is talent disappearing from FCS.

Good point, and all teams we played deep in the playoffs.

[BigLakeBison]

Why are FCS teams "worse" today than 10-15 years ago?

Transfer portal and bigger schools poaching the better players from the division to go play with the big boys. In addition to NIL monies making the move even more tempting for the schools who don't have millions of dollars.

Granted this is not the sole reason for lower ratings by Sagarin this year or in recent years, but I'm confident it has a decent part to play in results.

That's probably a factor. The top 5 is still pretty comparable. Also, a good number of teams that often were rated in the top 25 have also left for FBS. (Jacksonville State, James Madison, Sam Houston, Delaware, Kennesaw State, Missouri State, Coastal Carolina, Liberty) That's 8 teams that have left the FCS since the 2013 Sagarin rating that was posted above. 5 of those teams were in that particular rating and the other 3 were consistently rated highly even if they didn't show up in that particular 2013 rating. In my observation very few teams have stepped up and replaced those teams that left in terms of quality of play. With the current state of Transfers and NIL it probably makes it a bit harder for teams to make that jump to compete with the top 5. The 33rd rated team is performing at the same level they were before, but now they are ranked 22nd because of the void that was left.

[tony]

Why are FCS teams "worse" today than 10-15 years ago?

The average FBS team is worse than 10-15 years ago now too. And several top FBS teams are worse too because they lost one of their biggest advantages once everybody could pay players.

But, holy cow, some supposedly good FCS teams were really disappointing in their FBS games this year (Montana State, UC Davis, South Dakota, etc.), but for the most parts, FBS teams are playing the crappiest FCS schools they can find.

[reformedUNDfan]

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New near contender appears near the top.