A new and better FBS thread

[HerdBot]

I am in favor of adding NDSU football only but I don't have any idea when or if that might happen. There has been near complete radio silence on this. The Big Mountain guy believes you will be added, so there is that. Every now and then I hear stuff about Toledo but I am not at all sure that will happen. I don't think it is any secret that Davis will be moving their football to FBS in the MW. Their contract says they are to be the first FCS school to be invited to the MW for football. Like you guys, they have plenty of money to do this.

I concur with the suggestion here that MW football will be weaker going forward but all the schools have decent G6 budgets and the conference as a whole should be fine.

NDSU used to be in the Great West Football Conference with UC Davis when we both moved up to D1 together so I'm more familiar with them than the average Joe. Even made a trip out there in our early D1 days. We played some good games

I don't think UC Davis has any extra money to move up or build a new stadium. People see their huge budget and think they are loaded. Reality is they are so tight on money, they basically only recruit in state kids.

Why? Because 1 out of state recruit costs nearly $75k per year. That would wipe out their athletic budget and endowment. Even recruiting in state kids still costs 45k a year. Basically donations don't go very far because boosters use their money to pay scholarships

Just to add 44 more in state scholarships to be Title 9 compliant would cost them 2 million bucks a year

Their funding for athletic department is complicated being in California

Up until this year, they couldnt even pay for lights for their baseball and soccer field which seems absurd. It wasn't surprising to me they opted out of the House settlement

[BigHorns]

Were JMU, Appalachian State, Georgia Southern and Coastal Carolina added for that reason? Nobody even thinks of them as former FCS schools anymore

Not the Sunbelt is a top G5 League with a large chunk former FCS

Conference USA definitely added for that reason, but they added mediocre teams

Indirectly, yes.

These shifts/additions are almost always linked to “poaching” somewhere, or in other words the departure of schools from one FBS conference to another.

In the last round prior to PAC poaching MW, what occurred was AAC poached 6 from CUSA, which left CUSA in such a weakened state that an additional 3 CUSA schools left for SBC. That “chaos” opened a door for JMU to be the 4th school included. Without that, no way SBC invites them as a one off. It was about balancing the divisions.

Prior to that App St and Georgia Southern SBC additions were also about balancing out divisions as the SBC was rebuilding itself.

Now we unfortunately seem to be in some type of lull period or pause where conferences are electing not to backfill from FCS. See: MAC and CUSA recent losses.

May not be official, but it sure looks like there is some fear of P4 retribution at the moment. I would not mind us being added as a western branch of MAC, but they do not seem to be seeking any additions currently.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

NDSU used to be in the Great West Football Conference with UC Davis when we both moved up to D1 together so I'm more familiar with them than the average Joe. Even made a trip out there in our early D1 days. We played some good games

I don't think UC Davis has any extra money to move up or build a new stadium. People see their huge budget and think they are loaded. Reality is they are so tight on money, they basically only recruit in state kids.

Why? Because 1 out of state recruit costs nearly $75k per year. That would wipe out their athletic budget and endowment. Even recruiting in state kids still costs 45k a year. Basically donations don't go very far because boosters use their money to pay scholarships

Just to add 44 more in state scholarships to be Title 9 compliant would cost them 2 million bucks a year

Their funding for athletic department is complicated being in California

Up until this year, they couldnt even pay for lights for their baseball and soccer field which seems absurd. It wasn't surprising to me they opted out of the House settlement

That and their AD basically said “we need to achieve something in FCS before we ever consider this” (paraphrasing). Tarleton’s AD basically said the same thing recently as well, and the BigMT guy will admit that although he really wants Tarleton, NDSU is in front of them. I truly believe that with the P4 now “keeping the gate”, exemplary success in FCS will be an unstated prereq going forward, as it should be. Blue Hens and Mo St made the move because they saw the window closing for them. My take anyway

[MWC]

NDSU used to be in the Great West Football Conference with UC Davis when we both moved up to D1 together so I'm more familiar with them than the average Joe. Even made a trip out there in our early D1 days. We played some good games

I don't think UC Davis has any extra money to move up or build a new stadium. People see their huge budget and think they are loaded. Reality is they are so tight on money, they basically only recruit in state kids.

Why? Because 1 out of state recruit costs nearly $75k per year. That would wipe out their athletic budget and endowment. Even recruiting in state kids still costs 45k a year. Basically donations don't go very far because boosters use their money to pay scholarships

Just to add 44 more in state scholarships to be Title 9 compliant would cost them 2 million bucks a year

Their funding for athletic department is complicated being in California

Up until this year, they couldnt even pay for lights for their baseball and soccer field which seems absurd. It wasn't surprising to me they opted out of the House settlement

I think you are underestimating Davis but never the less they are already in the MW and they have a contract with the conference that they have to be the first FCS school to receive an invitation to add their football. I have no idea why either party would agree to that clause if there wasn't an understanding that Davis will say yes. It is a school with over 30 thousand students, 300 thousand alumni, a huge endowment and are part of the University of California system. They are not part of the Cal State system and the UC's are not broke. Even if they never move up their football they are a fabulous add. They also have nothing to do with whether or not NDSU is added or not. It isn't either or.

[MWC]

That and their AD basically said “we need to achieve something in FCS before we ever consider this” (paraphrasing). Tarleton’s AD basically said the same thing recently as well, and the BigMT guy will admit that although he really wants Tarleton, NDSU is in front of them. I truly believe that with the P4 now “keeping the gate”, exemplary success in FCS will be an unstated prereq going forward, as it should be. Blue Hens and Mo St made the move because they saw the window closing for them. My take anyway

I think Davis sees the window closing too..

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I think Davis sees the window closing too..

But as you just pointed out, they’re already in, with insider access, so its not closing nearly as fast as for any Valley school not named NDSU who wants to move up, assuming there are any …
The vibe I get from the other valley schools is “wait for the split’, but in reality the split already happened, and yet no G6 program is considering moving down to FCS. To the contrary, in fact

[HerdBot]

I think you are underestimating Davis but never the less they are already in the MW and they have a contract with the conference that they have to be the first FCS school to receive an invitation to add their football. I have no idea why either party would agree to that clause if there wasn't an understanding that Davis will say yes. It is a school with over 30 thousand students, 300 thousand alumni, a huge endowment and are part of the University of California system. They are not part of the Cal State system and the UC's are not broke. Even if they never move up their football they are a fabulous add. They also have nothing to do with whether or not NDSU is added or not. It isn't either or.

I never said they were broke. I said they don't have the money to move up right now. A big budget and enrollment doesn't mean anything other than they have big expenses. It's not cheap to conduct business in California. It costs 30 grand per year just to house a student, in addition to 45k in tuition. Its kind of insane. So a donor that gives 75k a year is only funding 1 in state scholarship when you figure in housing. On the flip side, it costs Wyoming 6500 a year to fund an in state student a full ride

Also they fund 25 sports, so it doesn't go very far. Most teams fund 12 or 13

The contract says they have to be the first to be CONSIDERED. It's really a meaningless contract.

The MW can easily decline after the application comes in

A team that is loaded would be Grand Canyon

[MWC]

I never said they were broke. I said they don't have the money to move up right now. A big budget and enrollment doesn't mean anything other than they have big expenses. It's not cheap to conduct business in California. It costs 30 grand per year just to house a student, in addition to 45k in tuition. Its kind of insane. So a donor that gives 75k a year is only funding 1 in state scholarship when you figure in housing. On the flip side, it costs Wyoming 6500 a year to fund an in state student a full ride

Also they fund 25 sports, so it doesn't go very far

The contract says they have to be the first to be CONSIDERED. It's really a meaningless contract.

The MW can easily decline after the application comes in

A team that is loaded would be Grand Canyon

Maybe they will never consider Davis or any FCS school which will end that completely. We may know that soon if Tarleton moves to CUSA as expected. The MW currently has 9 football playing schools and 10 olympic sports schools. That is, after all, the perfect size for a G6 conference. Cheap and easy travel, including a number of warm weather cities. It doesn't generally lay out much easier than that.

While I think adding NDSU football is a good idea, I have no idea if that is even in the cards at this point. However, I have no complaints about the makeup of the conference in 2026 forward.

[HerdBot]

Maybe they will never consider Davis or any FCS school which will end that completely. We may know that soon if Tarleton moves to CUSA as expected. The MW currently has 9 football playing schools and 10 olympic sports schools. That is, after all, the perfect size for a G6 conference. Cheap and easy travel, including a number of warm weather cities. It doesn't generally lay out much easier than that.

While I think adding NDSU football is a good idea, I have no idea if that is even in the cards at this point. However, I have no complaints about the makeup of the conference in 2026 forward.

I don't think CUSA will add anyone. After Deleware and Missouri State move in, that's the perfect number of schools at 10

The PAC needs 2 more. MW needs 1 more football only. Any school they poach will start a chain reaction

I have a gut feeling the MAC could come calling if they lose another team. Right now they are an odd 11. Would they want to stay at 10 or add 2? What if they targeta CUSA school like Western Kentucky?

But if the CUSA loses another...

At the end of the day the only conference I would want to see us join as football only is the MW, PAC or AAC. Nothing else makes sense or interests me, unless CUSA wants to add 4 schools from the Montana's and Dakota's

Unless that happens, I would rather stay put . We're in a good spot right now and can be picky. We have a solid TV deal and had 10.2 million people watch us last year on TV, including 2 games on ABC and the National Championship game. We have the luxury to be patient. We're chipping away at facilities every year. Now we're building a 15 million dollar wrestling practice facility to up the game for the Big 12

It will be interesting. But as I originally predicted, I don't think the MW or PAC does anything until the legal battles are over and a TV deal is announced. That could take years

[MWC]

I think both the Pac media deal and the MW media deal will announced this month. If the lawsuits do indeed go to trial that will take a couple of years, at least, but it doesn't really prevent either conference from adding if they wish to.