A new and better FBS thread

[Hammerhead]

I kinda agree with Chapo here. Not that big a deal anymore.

It can be a big deal for some kids who want parents to be able to drive to their home games.

[Professor Chaos]

I kinda agree with Chapo here. Not that big a deal anymore.

Geography isn't a big deal when it comes to travel for football when you're chartering flights but no FBS conference is looking for football only members. Geography becomes a bigger deal when you're traveling for every other sport because they don't charter they fly commercial or bus. That means an extra connecting flight to get to Fargo and/or extra hours on a bus ride. There's also more to geography than just travel. TV/streaming markets in ND/western MN aren't going to move the needle for conferences who want additions to help them garner a better media rights deal. There's no recruiting benefit since ND and western MN aren't recruiting hotbeds for anyone outside of the local FCS schools and below. It's also not an easy or desirable location for your own fans to want to travel to and support your teams when they're on the road here.

It's tough to make a case for how NDSU can help your conference enough to offset those limiting factors caused by geography given how much of an outlier they would be in any existing G5 conference.

[heffray]

Geography isn't a big deal when it comes to travel for football when you're chartering flights but no FBS conference is looking for football only members. Geography becomes a bigger deal when you're traveling for every other sport because they don't charter they fly commercial or bus. That means an extra connecting flight to get to Fargo and/or extra hours on a bus ride. There's also more to geography than just travel. TV/streaming markets in ND/western MN aren't going to move the needle for conferences who want additions to help them garner a better media rights deal. There's no recruiting benefit since ND and western MN aren't recruiting hotbeds for anyone outside of the local FCS schools and below. It's also not an easy or desirable location for your own fans to want to travel to and support your teams when they're on the road here.

It's tough to make a case for how NDSU can help your conference enough to offset those limiting factors caused by geography given how much of an outlier they would be in any existing G5 conference.

A lot of that makes sense. But I disagree that “no one wants to go to Fargo” as a reason against a conference invite. MSP is not that far away and they have no issues.

[ByeSonBusiness]

A lot of that makes sense. But I disagree that “no one wants to go to Fargo” as a reason against a conference invite. MSP is not that far away and they have no issues.

Minnesota is a founding member of the Big Ten. So naturally they don't have any issues with conference affiliation. But lets say they were not a founding member.

It's one of the largest universities in the country. Its also in an air hub city with millions of people. Its also very good academically. Its the sole D1 school public school in the state. A school like Minnesota isn't going to have issues getting people to come play there.

[heffray]

Minnesota is a founding member of the Big Ten. So naturally they don't have any issues with conference affiliation. But lets say they were not a founding member.

It's one of the largest universities in the country. Its also in an air hub city with millions of people. Its also very good academically. Its the sole D1 school public school in the state. A school like Minnesota isn't going to have issues getting people to come play there.

Right, and they have accomplished all of that despite being in a geographically undesirable location. That’s all I’m saying.

[bisonaudit]

Minnesota is a founding member of the Big Ten. So naturally they don't have any issues with conference affiliation. But lets say they were not a founding member.

It's one of the largest universities in the country. It’s also in an air hub city with millions of people. It’s also very good academically. It’s the sole D1 school public school in the state. A school like Minnesota isn't going to have issues getting people to come play there.

I don't know. Seems like they have a fair bit of trouble keeping the talent in their own backyard.

I don’t disagree with your conclusion or the rest of your argument though. To me it comes down to markets. By that I don’t necessarily mean pure head count or TV sets or whatever. The issue with markets is that we’re in some sort of transition between that simple raw count situation and a pure engagement model. Not that we ever were or likely ever will be at one end of the spectrum or the other, but it’s shifting in the direction of engagement and that is creating uncertainty but also perhaps an opening for somewhere like NDSU where there wasn’t one before. Or not. It’s all up in the air.

[daddy daycare]

There's no doubt geography is the main reason NDSU is still stuck in the FCS. App State...JMU...Coastal...even shitty SHSU. all have geography over NDSU and look at 'em now.

[heffray]

There's no doubt geography is the main reason NDSU is still stuck in the FCS. App State...JMU...Coastal...even shitty SHSU. all have geography over NDSU and look at 'em now.

This is a fair point.

I know what everyone means by “geography,” but I don’t think FBS conferences look at NDSU and say, “if only they were 3 hours further south on I94…” it’s more likely a combination of things on ByeSon’s list…

[ByeSonBusiness]

I don't know. Seems like they have a fair bit of trouble keeping the talent in their own backyard.

I don’t disagree with your conclusion or the rest of your argument though. To me it comes down to markets. By that I don’t necessarily mean pure head count or TV sets or whatever. The issue with markets is that we’re in some sort of transition between that simple raw count situation and a pure engagement model. Not that we ever were or likely ever will be at one end of the spectrum or the other, but it’s shifting in the direction of engagement and that is creating uncertainty but also perhaps an opening for somewhere like NDSU where there wasn’t one before. Or not. It’s all up in the air.

Apologies, I meant they can get teams to fly up to Minneapolis to play games regularly. Not referencing their (in)ability to keep in-state talent from playing elsewhere.

[BigHorns]

There's no doubt geography is the main reason NDSU is still stuck in the FCS. App State...JMU...Coastal...even shitty SHSU. all have geography over NDSU and look at 'em now.

Geography/travel is a particularly big deal in lower budget G5 conferences. If you look at the CUSA short list, it includes schools like SFA, EKU, and Tarleton now. The one thing they have in common is close geography to the other members. G5 schools want to minimize travel time and costs if they can.

I think this may be less of an issue for us with MWC or possibly MAC.

The other big factor tends to be market, and whether or not a media company is willing to pony up more $$$ to have that school join the conference. That is huge in determining which G5 schools get the golden ticket to P5. Schools located in major metros like Houston, Cincinnati, and UCF have a big advantage there.