A new and better FBS thread

[NDSU92]

I think you guys are a little bit dramatic. Performance on the field has little to do with if we are ready for FBS. If that was the case, SDSU should have never left Division 2 because their football was traditionally horrible. We got beat on a field by a team that is essentially our partner. We should be thrilled that others in our division are improving their programs as a rising tide lifts all boats, especially when it is our partner (who has been an very good partner through the transition) is the one making the investment.

Who's talking about performance on the field meaning we're ready for FBS? I'm talking about our athletic department doing the same thing that Georgia Southern, Appy, JMU, etc. did when we came in and started eating their lunch. Being the AD responsible for your rival passing you in dominance is not healthy for your job security. We've lost to SDSU 4 straight times, that rising tide is starting to come over the edge of the boat, my friend.

People have been complaining for years about how much they were paying for seats, being asked for in donations, etc. when we were winning the championship every year, making the NCAA tourney in basketball every 3 years, etc. Guess how happy they'll be to keep paying that amount and we aren't nearly as successful moving forward.

That is how an AD loses his job.

[BigLakeBison]

I think you guys are a little bit dramatic. Performance on the field has little to do with if we are ready for FBS. If that was the case, SDSU should have never left Division 2 because their football was traditionally horrible. We got beat on a field by a team that is essentially our partner. We should be thrilled that others in our division are improving their programs as a rising tide lifts all boats, especially when it is our partner (who has been an very good partner through the transition) is the one making the investment.

I'm not so worried about them beating us on the field once or even a couple times. I'm worried that our attendance is declining, we have an aging football stadium, we have declining enrollment and a university budget deficit, lesser passion/engagement for our basketball programs and a state government that can at times be a bit of an obstacle. They on the other hand have increasing attendance, a new football stadium, more stable enrollment/budget and basketball programs that are further ahead both in on court success and fan engagement than ours. We should absolutely be thrilled that SDSU is investing and raising their profile but it requires us to keep pace with them or they will pass us by. They have the resources that we do and we have to keep up. Is that overly dramatic? Maybe. They have closed the gap on us in the past five years though and we need to have some urgency so that they don't pass us by. We can kid as fans that they are lil' bro but in reality they are our twin brother and they have been hitting the weight room. So even though we look similar, if they keep it up we may find ourselves on the lil' bro side of things.

[The_Sicatoka]

... and they don't have the overall budget issues that NDSU has.

They have their own budget issues. As significant, no, but there.

[EC8CH]

Who's talking about performance on the field meaning we're ready for FBS? I'm talking about our athletic department doing the same thing that Georgia Southern, Appy, JMU, etc. did when we came in and started eating their lunch. Being the AD responsible for your rival passing you in dominance is not healthy for your job security. We've lost to SDSU 4 straight times, that rising tide is starting to come over the edge of the boat, my friend.

People have been complaining for years about how much they were paying for seats, being asked for in donations, etc. when we were winning the championship every year, making the NCAA tourney in basketball every 3 years, etc. Guess how happy they'll be to keep paying that amount and we aren't nearly as successful moving forward.

That is how an AD loses his job.

NDSU has a paid for indoor Stadium that is sitting on millions in a surplus fund contemplating upgrades.

NDSU is completing a practice facility that out classes any in the FCS that was pre financed with private funds.

NDSU is also close to establishing endowments to cover scholarship, and I've heard other , reoccurring costs.

NDSU has a war chest of assets to carry into the next level where as others are carrying an anchor of debt around their necks.

[BigLakeBison]

They have their own budget issues. As significant, no, but there.

What university currently doesn't. Budget issues versus openly discussing cuts with the media are two very different situations. I'm not saying that everything at SDSU is perfect. They have their obstacles as well. However, I think they are on the verge of really hitting their stride as a University and an Athletic Department. I grew up in Watertown, SD and have many relatives and friends who are SDSU alums. Up until the move to D1 the alumni had very little connection with SDSU outside of maybe Hobo Days. The general vibe was one very similar to what I see with SCSU alums. Since the move to D1, I have seen many of my family and friends go from 0 to 60 in terms of them attending football, basketball and wrestling. The enrollment at SDSU is less than NDSU but their instate enrollment is higher than NDSU. They get a fair number of Minnesotans, just like NDSU does but most of them are out state Minnesota kids. They haven't tapped into the Twin Cities for enrollment like NDSU and UND have. This makes sense since they are in a relatively rural location. However, if they start to hit some of the TC suburbs and exurbs harder, I think they have a good chance of pulling a few more kids from the Twin Cities. They also have population centers like Sioux City and Omaha closer to them and they have a community in Brookings that obviously doesn't offer as much as Fargo but it is growing and is perceived as a relatively safe place for parents to send their kids. My daughter is going to NDSU currently for nursing. She toured lots of colleges in the region and for her it came down to NDSU, SDSU and Mankato. She liked the Fargo and Mankato communities better than Brookings but the SDSU campus and what the university is doing is top notch. I think they are well positioned for the future and of all 4 Dakota schools I think they are currently best positioned moving into the future. Hopefully that pushes the other 3 to keep upping their games as well.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

NDSU has a paid for indoor Stadium that is sitting on millions in a surplus fund contemplating upgrades.

NDSU is completing a practice facility that out classes any in the FCS that was pre financed with private funds.

NDSU is also close to establishing endowments to cover scholarship, and I've heard other , reoccurring costs.

NDSU has a war chest of assets to carry into the next level where as others are carrying an anchor of debt around their necks.

Oh it’s more than that – SDSU has their work cut out for them on several fronts, most notably fundraising and academics. I say that as someone who respects them and wants them to jump with us (or shortly after)

For academics (aka research), once again, chemistry is the best litmus test (pun). Here are "hits" (publications) from the American Chemical Society (total hits all time):

NDSU (2392)
Past yr – 53
6 mo – 22
3 mo – 9
1 mo – 3
1 wk – 1

UND (1705)
Past yr – 16
6 mo – 11
3 mo – 7
1 mo – 3
1 wk – 1

USD (772)
Past yr – 9
6 mo – 4
3 mo – 1
1 mo – 1
1 wk – 1

SDSU (590)
Past yr – 7
6 mo – 3
3 mo – 2

Lesser Dakota indeed … NDSU is down, not surprising with all the cuts from Bismarck (old habits die hard eh), but clearly stands out (hence R1). UND ain't too shabby, but it’s interesting that the long-term NDSU/UND ratio (1.4) is much less than the near term (3.3), suggesting that UND is hurting despite the extra $$ it gets from Bismarck. This might be a case where the $$ might be better invested in NDSU

Of note, small-state G5s

Wyoming (3224)
Past yr – 74
6 mo – 37
3 mo – 23
1 mo – 11
1 wk – 5

Hawaii (4125)
Past yr – 129
6 mo – 57
3 mo – 29
1 mo – 9
1 wk – 2

2-flagship model splits the effort in half and begs for differentiation of the small-state XDSU/UXD model by specialty (UWyo = NDSU + UND). This should apply to D1 athletics as well to get the biggest "bang for your buck" (something I would think the Dakotas would take quite seriously)

Here’s TCU and UGA. Pretty lopsided, just like the game

TCU (1202)
Past yr – 9
6 mo – 3

UGA (9568)
Past yr – 318
6 mo – 145
3 mo – 83
1 mo – 25
1 wk – 5

Population, enrollment, and $$ are obviously more important than academics, fwiw, but good G5s (MWC/AAC) take academics very seriously

[BigLakeBison]

NDSU has a paid for indoor Stadium that is sitting on millions in a surplus fund contemplating upgrades.

NDSU is completing a practice facility that out classes any in the FCS that was pre financed with private funds.

NDSU is also close to establishing endowments to cover scholarship, and I've heard other , reoccurring costs.

NDSU has a war chest of assets to carry into the next level where as others are carrying an anchor or debt around their necks.

As I stated, they might not be equal to NDSU in everything but I think they are close and well positioned to keep the momentum going. NDSU on the other hand has been fighting the headwinds of apathy over the past 4-5 years and needs to find a way to change that trend or they will be looking up at SDSU consistently. That war chest you speak of might be depleted some with the looming budget cuts as they may need to tap into it to offset cuts from the general fund. The FargoDome has been contemplating upgrades since before NDSU's run started. Would be nice if they would actually use some of those dollars soon. If we don't turn the tide of the increasing apathy, I think the ability to establish those endowments to cover scholarships might be increasingly difficult. I agree with NDSU92, The AD and President have some work to do to keep NDSU above their regional peer because SDSU is coming for us. I'm glad they are, we just can't keep telling ourselves that we're better than them in any meaningful way. They are equal or better on many levels and they want to be better than us. Not just at sports but in everything.

[EC8CH]

As I stated, they might not be equal to NDSU in everything but I think they are close and well positioned to keep the momentum going. NDSU on the other hand has been fighting the headwinds of apathy over the past 4-5 years and needs to find a way to change that trend or they will be looking up at SDSU consistently. That war chest you speak of might be depleted some with the looming budget cuts as they may need to tap into it to offset cuts from the general fund. The FargoDome has been contemplating upgrades since before NDSU's run started. Would be nice if they would actually use some of those dollars soon. If we don't turn the tide of the increasing apathy, I think the ability to establish those endowments to cover scholarships might be increasingly difficult. I agree with NDSU92, The AD and President have some work to do to keep NDSU above their regional peer because SDSU is coming for us. I'm glad they are, we just can't keep telling ourselves that we're better than them in any meaningful way. They are equal or better on many levels and they want to be better than us. Not just at sports but in everything.

These are assets on the books in their Athletic Departments that other institutions are not close to matching. I agree a move should be made soon, but NDSU has built up these assets in preparation and is far better prepared.

IMHO a football only invite to the AAC is the target. No partner required for the move.

Ironically NDSUs media deal would be an issue to ensure equal or greater coverage and revenue after the move.

[BigLakeBison]

Oh it’s more than that – SDSU has their work cut out for them on several fronts, most notably fundraising and academics. I say that as someone who respects them and wants them to jump with us (or shortly after)

For academics (aka research), once again, chemistry is the best litmus test (pun). Here are "hits" (publications) from the American Chemical Society (total hits all time):

NDSU (2392)
Past yr – 53
6 mo – 22
3 mo – 9
1 mo – 3
1 wk – 1

UND (1705)
Past yr – 16
6 mo – 11
3 mo – 7
1 mo – 3
1 wk – 1

USD (772)
Past yr – 9
6 mo – 4
3 mo – 1
1 mo – 1
1 wk – 1

SDSU (590)
Past yr – 7
6 mo – 3
3 mo – 2

Lesser Dakota indeed … NDSU is down, not surprising with all the cuts from Bismarck (old habits die hard eh), but clearly stands out (hence R1). UND ain't too shabby, but it’s interesting that the long-term NDSU/UND ratio (1.4) is much less than the near term (3.3), suggesting that UND is hurting despite the extra $$ it gets from Bismarck. This might be a case where the $$ might be better invested in NDSU

Of note, small-state G5s

Wyoming (3224)
Past yr – 74
6 mo – 37
3 mo – 23
1 mo – 11
1 wk – 5

Hawaii (4125)
Past yr – 129
6 mo – 57
3 mo – 29
1 mo – 9
1 wk – 2

2-flagship model splits the effort in half and begs for differentiation of the small-state XDSU/UXD model by specialty (UWyo = NDSU + UND). This should apply to D1 athletics as well to get the biggest "bang for your buck" (something I would think the Dakotas would take quite seriously)

Here’s TCU and UGA. Pretty lopsided, just like the game

TCU (1202)
Past yr – 9
6 mo – 3

UGA (9568)
Past yr – 318
6 mo – 145
3 mo – 83
1 mo – 25
1 wk – 5

Population, enrollment, and $$ are obviously more important than academics, fwiw, but good G5s (MWC/AAC) take academics very seriously

SDSU is really at it's infancy in creating it's brand compared to NDSU in my opinion. Even though they were a State Land Grant, they behaved much like a Smaller State College (SCSU, Bemidji) for most of the years while I was growing up. Their perception, even within the state of South Dakota, was more similar to those schools. It wasn't until the D1 move that they realized what they could be and really started to push outside of their previous self-imposed barriers. Even now I see almost no advertising in the Twin Cities for SDSU compared to NDSU/UND. I think that as they continue to spread their wings they are going to not only improve their enrollment but their academics as well. Again, I'm not saying they are equal to NDSU in everything but we should not be underestimating the growth potential they have.

[BigLakeBison]

These are assets on the books in their Athletic Departments that other institutions are not close to matching. I agree a move should be made soon, but NDSU has built up these assets in preparation and is far better prepared.

IMHO a football only invite to the AAC is the target. No partner required for the move.

Fair points. Does the situation require a move this year? No but those assets you speak of can be diminished quite quickly if revenue declines. Or the other alternative is to preserve the assets by cutting the operating budgets for the athletic department. Neither of those are good. I would love a football only invite to the AAC. I'm also prepared for the fact that we may need to take a risk and bet on ourselves in a lesser conference to get to the AAC. I just don't think staying in the FCS will allow us to continue to position ourselves for a move to the top G5 conference. I'd equate it to some of the coaching discussions that have been had here recently. Lots of people think Tyler Roehl has the potential to be a good head coach, but staying as the OC at his alma mater might not be a path that will get him there. He may need to make a lateral move to another spot to prove himself before he would be given the opportunity to be a head coach. I think NDSU is viewed in a similar light as an athletic department.