Band Stories - In Defense of McKinney & the Pride

[BigDeal]

Hello, some of us still have no idea what this is all about. Start at the beginning please.

Here's the short version so no more time is wasted...

SDSU packed up their gear and weren't going to play for NDSU game. Under pressure from SDSU and fans, a pepband was formed to play this weekend.

[travelingbison]

CaBisonfan, I know that you felt the need to defend someone you respect. I completely understand and respect you for that. However, I personally feel that the means in which you went about addressing this issue could have been set up in a more informative matter.

I honestly had to read your statement several times before I could comprehend the real point of it - because upon first read, it seemed as though it was just another "SDSU is better than NDSU" rant.

I tend to agree with a couple of the other points made in this thread.

1) While it's great to hear about The Pride's dedication and whatnot, it's hard to understand why - with a game scheduled so far in advance - they wouldn't make an effort to perform, regardless of who is making the decisions. If SDSU wants to be considered on the same level as the big schools, they are going to have to stop making excuses on things like this...no matter how great the level of politics involved.

2) This is indeed one area where NDSU has been spoiled, because the GSMB is ALWAYS at big events......even if they aren't told until the week before the event......or even if the practicing weather conditions are horrible. That seems to be a part of their tradition - even when the bison played outside at Dakota Field.

[GSB Alum]

I remember MANY MANY late season rehearsals in marching band that were MISERABLE weather. Snow, Rain, Ice, Sleet, Cold... You name it, we've rehearsed in it. I think of the years I spent in the band, we had only one or two regular weekday rehearsals in the Fargodome because of weather, because it's usually the bad weather days that the football team goes inside and the band stays on Dakotah Field. Typically the band sticks to it outside until Saturday morning before the games. If you also notice, they typically do their pre-game march-over in rain, snow, or shine as well... done that in the dark in a snowstorm my freshmen year (2000). 7pm game on Nov. 17th? Yeah... dark and snowy.. but holy cow what a blast...

The band does get pegged to play ALOT of events outside of football games and rehearsals. Homecoming week tends to be especially grueling as a player. We end up running all over town and campus playing for this or that and then Homecoming day is parade, BSA show, then football game. Sometimes the band rehearses Saturday morning of Homecoming for about an hour and a half before the parade because of being scattered during the week previous. The point is, the current Director seems to try to do the bidding of Pres. Chapman and Athletics events when it's feasible, sort of a "what goes around comes around" sort of thing. If the GSMB director told Athletics that the band wouldn't be at the last two homegames in November, they'd probably be a little less open to band cries for support.

Bottom line is, Marching Band is basically a job in the fall semester.

[CaBisonFan]

Good insight. I do think the landscape at SDSU is undergoing some change. Athletics has, in some ways, eclipsed The Pride, but the leadership of the band hasn't figured that out yet. McKinney made a strategic error here, assuming that this was just another November game (it's not 1995 anymore) and that the Rose Parade bid would insulate the Pride from criticism.

As a result, they got pressured from a whole lot of high places. That strategic error of course doesn't detract from what The Pride leaders and members do for the university in general and how much we appreciate all their hard work. But it does suggest that priorities among the university leadership, major donors (many of whom have been longtime Pride supporters) and Pride leadership are not in sync at the moment.

The Pride has been operating like a DI program for decades. They're equal to, or better than several Big Ten and Big 12 bands. I'd give Michigan, Ohio State, and a few others an edge...but not by a lot.

I think that the university has an adjustment to make in how they deal with the Pride.

McKinney doesn't walk on water. He 'can' be stubborn.

I still say that something went equally wrong with the university's handling of this months and months ago.

I just hate seeing McKinney being called an egotistical moron...when he's actually the opposite. He's certainly no moron. He's brilliant.

[CaBisonFan]

Hmmmm its not like they all of a sudden scheduled this game last week and didnt have time to prepare. I think they made these schedules years in advance.
From what has been explained it seems he dug in his heels-hes not a whore for the football team etc.
I find that whole situation rediculous. Do you think the Michigan or Ohio State etc would ever even consider NOT playing at one of there home games?????
Sounds as though he would cut off his own nose to spit his face to try and prove a point. What ever point he was trying to make in regards to this situation I dont know. PL

You have your point...but Jim likes a crowd for his band as well as anyone. The scenario that's been painted just doesn't sound like him. That's really my point. It's uncharacteristic. OK...so he dug in his heels. Maybe he had a reason. Maybe it was a 50-50.

Look at the TV issue. Does that make sense?

I'm guessing that something just as senseless happened in dealing with McKinney. He's no dummy. He understands this game more than most people down there.

Seems like SDSU has some growing to do in handling the whole DI thing.

Michigan and Ohio State have had their plan and expectations down for about a century. No, the band director wouldn't imagine not showing up for that game.

But SDSU is obviously on a learning curve. As we all are.

[CaBisonFan]

CaBisonfan, I know that you felt the need to defend someone you respect. I completely understand and respect you for that. However, I personally feel that the means in which you went about addressing this issue could have been set up in a more informative matter.

I honestly had to read your statement several times before I could comprehend the real point of it - because upon first read, it seemed as though it was just another "SDSU is better than NDSU" rant.

I tend to agree with a couple of the other points made in this thread.

1) While it's great to hear about The Pride's dedication and whatnot, it's hard to understand why - with a game scheduled so far in advance - they wouldn't make an effort to perform, regardless of who is making the decisions. If SDSU wants to be considered on the same level as the big schools, they are going to have to stop making excuses on things like this...no matter how great the level of politics involved.

2) This is indeed one area where NDSU has been spoiled, because the GSMB is ALWAYS at big events......even if they aren't told until the week before the event......or even if the practicing weather conditions are horrible. That seems to be a part of their tradition - even when the bison played outside at Dakota Field.

What if an NDSU fan went on the Rabbit board and called Bohl an egotistical moron because he won't throw the ball more...or play a team that he doesn't want on the schedule?

I'm a Bison fan through and through, but I am also a fan of Jim McKinney and his band. I don't know the GSMB program as well...but I didn't see them as being under attack.

I'm just saying that there's an undercurrent to this story, and I tried to explain what McKinney is. I am defending a friend, and a great professional.

It's that simple.

[CaBisonFan]

I remember MANY MANY late season rehearsals in marching band that were MISERABLE weather. Snow, Rain, Ice, Sleet, Cold... You name it, we've rehearsed in it. I think of the years I spent in the band, we had only one or two regular weekday rehearsals in the Fargodome because of weather, because it's usually the bad weather days that the football team goes inside and the band stays on Dakotah Field. Typically the band sticks to it outside until Saturday morning before the games. If you also notice, they typically do their pre-game march-over in rain, snow, or shine as well... done that in the dark in a snowstorm my freshmen year (2000). 7pm game on Nov. 17th? Yeah... dark and snowy.. but holy cow what a blast...

The band does get pegged to play ALOT of events outside of football games and rehearsals. Homecoming week tends to be especially grueling as a player. We end up running all over town and campus playing for this or that and then Homecoming day is parade, BSA show, then football game. Sometimes the band rehearses Saturday morning of Homecoming for about an hour and a half before the parade because of being scattered during the week previous. The point is, the current Director seems to try to do the bidding of Pres. Chapman and Athletics events when it's feasible, sort of a "what goes around comes around" sort of thing. If the GSMB director told Athletics that the band wouldn't be at the last two homegames in November, they'd probably be a little less open to band cries for support.

Bottom line is, Marching Band is basically a job in the fall semester.

Marching Band isn't a 'job' for McKinney and his band members. They love it to death.

I agree with you, and it's good to hear about how the GSMB operates. I haven't been around the program at all...and I didn't see people calling your director an egotistical moron...so I didn't come to his defense.

In the original post...I tried to explain to people that there's more fundamental work to do at NDSU from the get-go because there aren't many high school marching programs around. And also...that's part of why the numbers aren't bigger. Please don't take it as a negative about the GSMB. I was actually trying to defend it.

Jim McKinney is a personal friend of mine...and I worked alongside of him for many years. I know him as a professional. Because of this...I 'know' that something else went on that made this more difficult than it had to be.

Look at the TV issue for this game. Could it be that SDSU has a LOT of work to do with handling a DI big-time event like this? Could it be that McKinney shouldn't be the whipping boy for something that the university needs to get up to speed on?

I can't imagine Jim not wanting to have the band at this game. But I 'can' imagine him digging his heels in if the admin. mishandled the framework of the event. The admin. saw this game coming over a year ago. The debate and planning should have been nailed down by last spring.

If I were in the admin at SDSU, I would have had a meeting a year ago with Jim to explain that the playing field has changed. I would have 'asked' him to adjust. He would have understood...and he would have adjusted. That's Jim.

My gut tells me that when this game isn't being telecast and there's a public debate about the band being at the game...that something went very wrong internally. Maybe everyone there needs to adjust their procedures and attitudes. Maybe McKinney was left out of the planning and was shown no respect. It's embarrassing to everyone.

This is a real sore spot for band directors in general. People just expect bands to show up at athletic events. I've had this happen to me so many times that it's sickening. I know the scenario. "Just be there." Most people would dig in their heels and say 'hell no.' But band directors and band members are supposed to be servants to athletes...right? They're just supposed to pick up the athletic schedule and not expect any communications or requests from the athletic department...right?

Wrong

Inviting, discussing, and planning is a whole lot different than 'expecting' and 'dissing.'

I've seen the latter in some of the posts regarding the SDSU Band and Dr. McKinney. Expecting and dissing. That's a really bad formula for cooperation and running a 'class' show.

That...is the real story.

I'm going to call Jim and get his side of it. I'll get back to you.

[CaBisonFan]

Here's the short version so no more time is wasted...

SDSU packed up their gear and weren't going to play for NDSU game. Under pressure from SDSU and fans, a pepband was formed to play this weekend.

Actually...someone sat down with McKinney and they negotiated a solution. Something that should have happened last spring.

[56BISON73]

Ca Bison
I appreciate your insight into the WHOLE band situation. I didnt know all the politics (crap) going on behind the scenes. But its too bad that this situation came to a head and poor resolution this late considering the magnitude of the game. There are no winners in the current situation or solution. PL

[CaBisonFan]

Ca Bison
I appreciate your insight into the WHOLE band situation. I didnt know all the politics (crap) going on behind the scenes. But its too bad that this situation came to a head and poor resolution this late considering the magnitude of the game. There are no winners in the current situation or solution. PL

I totally agree. It never should have gotten to this point. Somebody dropped the ball during the past school year. Poor planning both with this band thing and with the TV broadcast.

thanks