A new and better FBS thread

[NDSU92]

The money issue greatly depends on which conference you're looking at. We're already pretty close to the MAC average and old CUSA would be manageable. Larsen was probably talking about those, and those were the 2 most realistic options if any conference was going to invite us. MWC is a different story, we'd have to double our budget, and the media deal wouldn't even remotely come close to filling that gap. Wanting to know where you'll find an extra $15-30M annually before jumping doesn't make me part of this fictional FCS forever cabal.

BTW, NDSU and SDSU as a pair to the MAC is something I could get behind. Just don't see it happening in the near future for several reasons.

Why do we need an additional $15M-30M annually to be in the Mountain West? $15M would put us above the median of the conference and $30M would put us just below Air Force which is the largest due to their federal institution status and probably isn't a good comparison. The also have 27 sports teams and over 300 more athletes than NDSU does.

https://cafidatabase.knightcommissio...re_the_money-1

You can use the above site to compare us to many of the other FBS schools. Just from comparing us with some of the middle schools in the Mountain West, there's about $4M to $5M we'd likely receive FBS game guarantees and additional media rights. We'd still be slightly behind the median, but I'd say not bad for just stepping right into FBS. Again, money is not the issue.

The interesting piece from a budget standpoint is that what separates us from the biggest MW athletic departments is the difference in funding from student fees (~$5M difference) and institutional support (~$10M). Not saying NDSU can just pull a naked money grab, but those are really the only two funding sources in which NDSU is in complete control...

For instance if NDSU matched UND's student fees and institutional support, we'd find another $8 million right there. Add that to the $4-$5 million from media and FBS moneys and...

Profit.

[NDSU92]

I thought the number tossed about a few years back was $4-6M annual increase in total athletics budget for a top 1/3 FCS to go FBS.

SDSU's admin is at best cool to the subject. (You think Bismarck is stodgy on budget? Y'ain't been ta Pierre.)

It still is, $15M would be for us to be a high-level MW budget on Day 1 of joining. It would put us at the top of the MAC.

[El_Chapo]

another transfer because we aren't FBS.

great

Cox, Cofield, Hayes, Florentino, Cox... the list goes on

[The_Sicatoka]

For instance if NDSU matched UND's student fees and institutional support, we'd find another $8 million right there.

Which NDSU budget line item would that come from and how would that be impacted? Taking say $4M from somewhere could shut down a program or even department.

[NDSU92]

Which NDSU budget line item would that come from and how would that be impacted? Taking say $4M from somewhere could shut down a program or even department.

Re: In our Hands Campaign

[daddy daycare]

another transfer because we aren't FBS.

great

Cox, Cofield, Hayes, Florentino, Cox... the list goes on

Had NDSU been MAC they wouldn't have stepped on campus. Next man up.

[taper]

I thought the number tossed about a few years back was $4-6M annual increase in total athletics budget for a top 1/3 FCS to go FBS.

SDSU's admin is at best cool to the subject. (You think Bismarck is stodgy on budget? Y'ain't been ta Pierre.)

Again, $4-6M to the MAC or CUSA is realistic and manageable. MWC is a lot more. As for SDSU, despite having a pretty good FB team they're not a FB school. I have to wonder if the MAC is a big enough step up in basketball to entice them though. That's how I would sell it to them. Still think it's a pretty low chance of happening.

[taper]

Why do we need an additional $15M-30M annually to be in the Mountain West? $15M would put us above the median of the conference and $30M would put us just below Air Force which is the largest due to their federal institution status and probably isn't a good comparison. The also have 27 sports teams and over 300 more athletes than NDSU does.

https://cafidatabase.knightcommissio...re_the_money-1

You can use the above site to compare us to many of the other FBS schools. Just from comparing us with some of the middle schools in the Mountain West, there's about $4M to $5M we'd likely receive FBS game guarantees and additional media rights. We'd still be slightly behind the median, but I'd say not bad for just stepping right into FBS. Again, money is not the issue.

The interesting piece from a budget standpoint is that what separates us from the biggest MW athletic departments is the difference in funding from student fees (~$5M difference) and institutional support (~$10M). Not saying NDSU can just pull a naked money grab, but those are really the only two funding sources in which NDSU is in complete control...

For instance if NDSU matched UND's student fees and institutional support, we'd find another $8 million right there. Add that to the $4-$5 million from media and FBS moneys and...

Profit.

I've used that site plenty in the past and I think it's reasonably accurate. I gave the $15-30M range because it covers average to top of the MWC. I don't have a problem with someone picking any number in there, but that number is only going to go up in the future. I don't think NDSU should aim at conference average. Other than Wyoming we'd have about half the enrollment of the rest, which makes the student fee multiplier less effective. I wouldn't count on a lot of state support. The budget isn't impossible, but also far from easy. Remember that if we want 6 home games, that money we make for going to 2 FBS games is offset by having to bring in 2 teams. Just because we have the FBS label doesn't mean the Big 10 will be falling over themselves to schedule us. FBS=profit definitely isn't true, I don't think anybody in the G5 makes money from athletics. We're not going to be the outlier.

[Hammersmith]

That's why I asked if it was real. It just seemed squishy.

A $41k deficit sounds like a ten-day southern road trip for softball for most northern schools.

The source was a tiny Carbondale, IN newspaper that really didn't understand what they were talking about. If they looked at UND hockey using the same system, they would have said it showed a big loss.

The writer got some FOIA info and plugged it into a simple spreadsheet. But he didn't dig deep to find out what the info really meant.

For instance:

- NDSU football was allocated $1,512,287 out of the $5,434,465 in contributions. Most of that money comes from Team Makers seat fees. Do you really think that NDSU football only accounts for 28% of Team Maker donations? Of course not. It probably accounts for 85% or more. But the athletic accounting department distributes most of that money to sports that don't have other major income. It's just moving ink around.
- NDSU football was allocated zero dollars from the $497,999 in media rights.
- NDSU football was allocated zero dollars from the $2,568,080 in royalties, licensing, advertising & sponsorships.
- NDSU football was allocated zero dollars from the $997,114 in sports camp revenues.

Realistically, NDSU football makes the athletic department a profit of around $5M. I figure the football program is responsible for at least 75% of the revenue in those categories. That amounts to about $5.5M on top of what was already allocated to the football program. Then I would subtract the $515k in student fees.


Here's what was actually part of that so-called $41k deficit:

Revenue
Tickets			3,781,913
Student Fees		  515,510
Contributions		1,512,287
In Kind			   17,500
Programs		   56,140
Endowments		  120,539
Other			    1,500
Total			6,007,389

Expenses
Student Aid		1,744,308
Guarantees		  501,400
Head Coach		  555,620
Asst. Coaches		1,334,418
Support Staff		  229,050
Severence		   68,795
Recruiting		  167,831
Travel			  645,711
Equipment		  219,082
Game Expenses		  263,186
Debt Service/Rent	   24,981
Overhead/Admin		   21,622
Membership/Dues		    1,400
Student Meals		  182,423
Other			   88,901
Total			6,048,728

[NDSU92]

I've used that site plenty in the past and I think it's reasonably accurate. I gave the $15-30M range because it covers average to top of the MWC. I don't have a problem with someone picking any number in there, but that number is only going to go up in the future. I don't think NDSU should aim at conference average. Other than Wyoming we'd have about half the enrollment of the rest, which makes the student fee multiplier less effective. I wouldn't count on a lot of state support. The budget isn't impossible, but also far from easy. Remember that if we want 6 home games, that money we make for going to 2 FBS games is offset by having to bring in 2 teams. Just because we have the FBS label doesn't mean the Big 10 will be falling over themselves to schedule us. FBS=profit definitely isn't true, I don't think anybody in the G5 makes money from athletics. We're not going to be the outlier.

Do you think we need to be top half of the conference in budget in year 1? Is that typical for any FCS to FBS move? I don’t want to be the bottom of the conference long term, but some things like media and NCAA money will change overnight, and with modest changes elsewhere (student fees, institutional support), we’re already talking about being in the median of the conference before we start looking at tickets, corporate sponsorships, additional fundraising.

Hell, take our 13,173 students and charge them the same for athletic student fees as UND. That’s a little over $3M right there.