Right. And, unfortunately, it's not uncommon for someone to be a UND fan for teh hockies and an NDSU fan for all other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatanka
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Right. And, unfortunately, it's not uncommon for someone to be a UND fan for teh hockies and an NDSU fan for all other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatanka
Didn't the NDSU president recently try to shut down the on-campus day care center because of overall budget concerns? Adding hockey now wouldn't win a lot of friends in certain circles for him.
Out of every 1,000 Sioux Hockey fans in F-M (and in general throughout the region, for that matter), I would bet that less than 50 of them are fans of their football and basketball. And I'm probably being be generous when I say 50. As a matter of fact, I'm being incredibly generous. Look at the # of posts on the SS board. Their hockey forum grinds out activity and posts non-stop, 24/7 365. Their football forum can go days without a new post. Look, UND has created a brand around HOCKEY, but it's HOCKEY ONLY. I get sick and tired of seeing the dumbass posts on the SS board (especially from that star guy) about thinking that non-hockey sports can benefit and piggyback from hockey's popularity up north. NEWS FLASH: Your attendances in FB and BB suggest otherwise. (And recent NDSU beatdowns of UND in the other sports don't help your cause).Quote:
Originally Posted by gobison.gsb
UND, despite what some of the winged monkeys in SS claim, has put all their eggs in the hockey basket. They have a cracked shell in the FB basket and a drop of yolk in the hoops basket. That's fine by me, honestly. I personally think it's better that they're known for a sport that we don't have. This region (ND and Western MN) is too small in population for each school's accomplishments to not have a negative effect on the other. In other words, this region is too small for the NDSU/UND battle to not be a zero-sum game. It's a zero-sum game, and it always will be. What's good for NDSU is bad for UND, and vice-versa. This is why I think that NDSU being successful in FB and BB takes away prestige and support from UND's FB and BB, especially when you consider that UND's hockey is always really good. Back in the DII days, it was possible for both schools to be really good in FB and BB and have major accomplishments and fan followings, but this is DI. The pie hasn't gotten much bigger, but the stakes have gotten WAY higher.
UND being really good in hockey and NDSU dominating the FB and BB sports is just like a cosmic balance when you think about it. It's almost the natural order of things. If NDSU tries to duplicate what UND is doing in hockey, that throws off the whole balance at a detriment to NDSU's FB and BB programs. I'm more worried than anything about the balance being distrupted, cause I'm not willing to be a fan of a school that competes well in hockey and goes 3-8 in football and does terrible in basketball.
I had about 10 friends I graduated high school with go to UND, most of them went to many Sioux hockey games. Combined they may have went to two football games and basketball forget about it.
I never hear them mention another Sioux sport now, it is all about hockey or it doesn't matter(unless they are playing NDSU).
It WAS explored 10 years ago HEAVILY! We chose to explore Division 1 for all sports instead. Please :praying: drop this stupid argument. You keep saying "it cant hurt football and basketball", well if we add it it will hurt them both bottom line! Thats why they didnt make the move in the first place with hockey 10 years ago! The firms were hired. The studies were done. Gino Gasparini was even going to coach it. If hockey was such a great idea financially where are some of the other northern schools like Iowa, Iowa State, Illinois, Montana, Syracuse, St Johns, UCONN to name a few. If we start to see these other schools jump on board then we should explore it but not now.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Lets build ALL the programs we have now into Summit League dominant contenders first. If we have any program lacking behind in funding then we need to build that up first before we even think of adding anything else.
As far as the equestrian from another comment... Great idea Sioux fan! Its much less expensive to haul around horses in trailers and feed and water them compared to hockey. Who is paying for the stall cleaning bill cuz I am sure the "athletes" wont be doing that on their own. I think some people need to find out exactly how much is spent on equetrian at SDSU before anyone thinks that would be a great alternative.
Here is a little glimpse into just how expensive that could be after looking at the "Barn Managers" bio from the Equestrian coaches page.
***Martin Hanson returns for his third year as the SDSU equestrian barn manger, where manages the day-to-day operations of the Nathelle and Lawrence DeHaan Equestrian Center and the 150 acres of land it sits on, as well as the care and welfare of South Dakota State's stable of more than 40 horses. In addition to his daily duties, Hanson maintains and supervises a staff of 10-15 student employees and aids in the design and implementation of capital improvements for the facility****
If Spreewell couldnt feed his family on 12Mil a year imagine feeding 40 hungry horses.
The new arena had ZERO effect on them winning the title! UND has had the best hockey arena in the country arguably at any level for I think 10 years now and how many titles have they won. UMD's arena wasnt even open for the whole season. The talented seniors they had came to that school to play in the DECC before a new arena was even announced.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
MSUM has never claimed to have had enough donors to pull it off. If they did it would already be done. They dont even have enough donors to pull of 10 football scholarships let alone adding 2 hockey programs at the D1 level.
Ever see whenever they show a UND basketball game at the Betty on TV what the student section there looks like?? Dead empty. Empty empty empty. I saw them play one game on TV (against some sub-300 RPI jokers) last winter and I thought I saw maybe 3-4 total people sitting in their student section, which I could tell was there, cause of the big banner that said "STUDENT SECTION" draped above the top row.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUstudent
And regarding online fan interest: There's like maybe 3 alums of that school who are even remotely interested in BB on the SS board. Game threads on there aren't even updated during the game, there's a preview post then the final score is posted with a couple further comments. And the same 4-5 people post on their BB board. By contrast, on BV, game threads for big games can come close to maxing out bandwidth, and that's for basketball. Football threads almost always need a 2-parter. FB threads on SS.com can go as little as 3 pages long.
Attendance: Regular crowds of less than 8,000 for football and they almost NEVER breach 2,000 for basketball. And they have a gorgeous (but small) BB arena. 2 years ago the #16 team in FCS, Cal-Poly, comes into town, they're playing basically for a GWFC championship, and they get 6,711 in attendance. NDSU plays for the GWFC title in 2006 and draws 19,053. I know we piss on NDSU's basketball attendance a lot, but if a home game at the BSA is against a DI team, the attendance won't go less than 2,200 or so on weekday night game, or 3,000 on a Saturday night game. Average for a weeknight game will be about 2,500 and maybe about 3,500 for a Saturday nighter. And this is in the worst BB arena in the Dakotas.
Of course they pack em in for hockey, and they sell jerseys for hockey, and they have the TV deal for hockey, and they have the fan following for hockey. BUT IT'S FOR HOCKEY. They do this at the detriment to their football and basketball. I'm afraid that if NDSU went that route, the same would happen to us. Even fans of UND FB and BB (whatever few of them there are) admit that NDSU has set the bar in the region when it comes to football atmosphere, fan following, promotions, on-field performance, etc. and that UND basically cannot catch up with what NDSU has put together. We have that on them. And at least the thing we have on them is in a sport that both schools have. I don't want to give that up. And we risk giving that up if we start a massively big hockey program.
http://www.videobb.com/video/4tPXkbI7HvFg
This video shows the difference between teh hockies fans and normal folks.
Meh. I wouldn't say zero. They had some good freshman come in. But you're right about the seniors.Quote:
Originally Posted by bisonpride;490519[B
I am fairly involved with Fargo youth hockey and I will pass along some numbers. We anticipate close to 1,000 kids next year (boys and girls) playing hockey from the termite( age 4,5,6,) - bantams ( 9th/10th grade). These kids are growing up in Fargo (which is in the Great state of North Dakota). Think about it. Btw, this does not include West Fargo. This is valid information. I know many of you dislike hockey but the growing numbers are certainly showing that once kids play it becomes their sport of choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by gobison.gsb
Limited "barriers to entry"....athletically speaking...it's a good sport for average and below-average athletes. Don't flip me off!!...just a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by skolbrother
You have a point. They just have different levels of kids playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious
The school I went to, Jamestown, always had the kids in hockey who enjoyed hockey more than the other sports. I do not know if that had something to do with the fact they couldn't make the basketball or wrestling team, or the fact that they could be the "star" on the hockey team. I suppose they go hand in hand.
I think that hockey kids are really doing themselves a favor, they can be the star in hockey- which is the same as the worst starter on the basketball team as far as status in the hallways at school. Thats how North Dakota works, UND folks try to say we are a hockey state, no, we are football and basketball. Just how it goes, our best athletes are in basketball and football.
Just giving you the numbers.
Rationalize them anyway you want.
And, I am again reminded that most of you must be under the age of 35 and that is why I should stay away!
Carry on!!
Nevermind..... just going to say I disagreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Notorious
NCAA FINAL FOUR - KENTUCKY/UCONN CBS Sat 8:57 PM 16,715,000 MILLION
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...her-more/88799
Thursday top 10 Cable Ratings.
#1 swamp people 3.5 million
#10 terminator .625 million
frozen 4 not even in top 20.
***********************************************
Saturday
#1 Masters 7.7million
#2Nascar 3.5million
#8 NCAA hockey .3million
8 PM Shows:
The Mentalist (CBS) [repeat] – 4.1 million
Harry’s Law (NBC) [repeat] – 3.5 million
9 PM Shows:
Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior (CBS) [repeat] – 4.3 million
Law & Order: Los Angeles (NBC) [repeat] – 3.8 million
10 PM Show:
Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (NBC) [repeat] – 5.1 million
NO ONE CARES ABOUT COLLEGE HOCKEY IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY
Lakes done himself up some research! But my American friend! You are forgetting about the millions of us Canadians watching teh hockies! And the funny soundin' folks over there in Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Russia! And all those folks love the Sioux! Cause they are from the WCHA! Also known as the best! So much better than the NHL!Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesbison
I too was at one time "fairly involved" in Fargo hockey and "1000 kids" playing hockey in Fargo? That number doesn't even come close to telling the whole story. Do you have the break down by level (# of termites, mites, squirts, peewee's, bantams, and high school)? I'm sure the number of termites and mites dwarfs the numbers of other age levels. Also, remember there are three Varsity/JV programs (40ish kids per HS program) and there should be 4 full programs now in Fargo with the addition of Fargo Davies, but there aren't even enough kids to do that as evidenced by the FS and Shan coop.Quote:
Originally Posted by skolbrother
10th graders in Bantams?? Not that I've ever seen. FYI Bantams is more than likely a combo of 7th, 8th, and/or 9th graders depending on age and grade. Often "old" 9th graders have to play HS because they are too old for bantams)...
Another peculiar post from "344Johnson"...Buthockey?Quote:
Originally Posted by 344Johnson
with gas prices rising, hockey moms/dads trekking kids across country every weekend for 8 years in a row will be coming to a halt soon. its expensive as all get out.
The problem is all these dam und grads that cant find a god dam job up in grand forks and flood to fargo that has the hockey kids in fargo's system.
I am but a poser of Buthockey. The Robin to his Batman!Quote:
Originally Posted by EndZoneQB
Batman and Robin "played for the other team" NSFWQuote:
Originally Posted by 344Johnson
not sure how that works with buthockey, those hockey players are such suave gentlemen, except for that sean avery guy, he's questionable with the whole purse thing.
Ages 8-15 Fargo Babe Ruth Only (no West Fargo or Moorhead) over 900 kids. That does not include ages 4-7 who play park board ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by skolbrother
South and Shanley had to co-op to have a Varsity/JV for Hockey. Their are over 90 kids out for baseball between the 2 schools.
The numbers dont even come close to comparing.
Why does NDSU need hockey, why??!!! Answer, we don't. First, IMO, it would be detrimental to our other programs, and, second, we ALL already know how to "flip the bird" to someone we are pissed at.
I get the "NDSU should start D1 hockey" from most of my UND hockey friends. When I ask why, I get some bumbling, stumbling almost incoherent (and, no, they aren't all necessarily drunk at the time) response that results in my conclusion that they want us to start hockey so that they have sport they can consistently beat us in. Do we really want that?! If we were to go the hockey route, then we would get even more "butthockey" responses. For example, we could continue to rub FB and BB into their faces, and we would get a, "butthockey" response even more so then we do now.
Sorry, that's not for me!
You are right at the high school level. The 3rd high school created a bit of a demographics problem for South.Quote:
Originally Posted by bisonpride
That said, at the termite and mite level they are setting records for participation.
I am just giving you the numbers and the growing levels of participation at the youth level. I have specific numbers but my point was if kids are playing hockey and enjoying it and growing up in North Dakota they are going to typically choose a team to cheer for at the college level.
I can see what you are saying. But a lot of kids can be seen at wrestling tournements sporting some sioux clothing. The Sioux dont have wrestling...haven't for awhile. Granted, you do see more NDSU and Univ. of Mary than UND stuff but still.Quote:
Originally Posted by skolbrother
While the numbers aren't even close to in the same neighborhood as the basketball tournament, the NCAA is reporting via twitter that the semi-final games were the highest rated and most watched ever and the 2011 Frozen Four tournament itself was second-highest rated of all time with 3.2 million watching. I'm assuming that's combined for all three games, though I can't find anything to verify that. If that is the case, and the average is over 1 million per game, not bad for a regional sport that no one cares about. Lakes, I'm not sure how that matches up with your numbers above, but it seems taht something doesn't match up.Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesbison
well, I dont see those #'s anywhere.
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...and-more/89086
top 25 cable for that week, they arent in the top 25.
however, 3 Million could be for all 3 games, that would make sense, But I cant see it anywhere, ill keep lookin. 750,000 for each semi and 1.5 for finale?? could be.
There are a whole lot of interesting comments, suggestions and mostly opinion in this ramble.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBisonator
To say that there is one Sioux football/basketball fan for every 20 hockey fans is wrong. Is hockey the biggest sport and most popular sport? At this point in time, yes. But not long ago, that wasn’t the case. The majority of Sioux fans are fans of all sports, not just hockey. Your point of there being just hockey fans is true, but the same can be said of NDSU and its football fans and how many of those don’t care about basketball.
No doubt that football and basketball are down right now and with that goes interest. But, I’m not sure where you get the idea that all the eggs for UND are in the hockey basket either. UND’s budget for both FB and BB programs are in the same neighborhood as NDSU, though you could easily argue at this point in time, the return they are getting isn’t that great, but that will change.
And you are absolutely incorrect on the zero-sum game idea. People support a winner. If your theory was right, explain to me where all the basketball fans that cheered for NDSU during its tournament run went? If it was a true zero-sum, they would be UND fans, because attendance is down at the BSA. Since attendance is down at both schools, it can’t be zero-sum. My guess is you don’t understand what a zero-sum game is.
I’m curious about your comment about NDSU dominating FB and BB and it being cosmic balance? Are you talking in general or just against UND?
As for your last comment about being 3-8 in football and terrible in basketball? I assume you were trying to slam UND, but you pick a record that NDSU had in 2010 when NDSU’s basketball team wasn’t all that great either but I'm sure you still supported them?
The budget UND spends is similar, but has UND ever been a football power? No, they've had good teams and good stretches, but one championship vs. 8 championships? Not a comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by abc123
Basketball, UND's team, is terrible. Traditionally, I have zero idea about them but watching them play the Herd in the dome, they sucked. Losing the second half by....28 or something? To an average Bison team? Embarassing.
Maybe we were just spoiled, throughout our transition to D1 we had solid basketball and maybe the best FCS team in the country. I don't know. And just like how NDSU has mostly football fans, UND has mostly hockey, don't try and kid yourself. Obviously they have about 6-7 thousand football fans. Don't say, oh we had a bad year. When the herd had a bad season, they still were getting 14-15 thousand people. UND fans are not as supportive of lesser sports as the Bison are. Its just how it goes. Not saying that makes them bad or wrong. Just different.
My thoughts exactly. You went over to siouxsports.com and made an idiot of yourself with your lack of knowledge and yet it hasn't stopped you.Quote:
Originally Posted by 344Johnson
You are defending that basketball team? They were badQuote:
Originally Posted by abc123
I think he's defending you making rash generalizations about their athletic programs without having actually checked to see if you were right. I think UND blows as much as anyone but how about you check up on the facts first? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Sioux_footballQuote:
Originally Posted by 344Johnson
NCC Champs = 24
Overall record = 595-353-30 (.624) (believe that's accurate to a year ago)
Again, the Siouxage are super lame but you sound straight-up stupid assuming they have a bad history. Very competitive teams all throughout the era of Bison dominance, we just won more championships. We're the better program but they were by no means poor.
they havent been above 300 RPI in years.
Oh, never assumed they had a bad history. Just nothing special either. Very competitive throughout all the years of dominance? One of those games was something like 63-12. There is a difference between the simdorn, beachy administrations and the Bentrim "Reagan" Administration.Quote:
Originally Posted by DjKyRo
And had you kept reading you would have noticed I said THIS YEAR, they were bad. Truly terrible. I didn't say any word about the history of their basketball team other than the 2010-2011 season. It happens, we have bad years in sports too. Don't sweat it.Quote:
Originally Posted by abc123
If I recall from looking at the archives, UND football has had stretch runs of seasons in the latter half of the 20th century where they did HORRIBLY, like winning 2 or 3 or 4 games a year. And these weren't just a season here or there, they were like anti-dynasties full of bad, losing seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by DjKyRo
By contrast, NDSU has only had THREE seasons of 3 wins or less since 1964. And two of them happened in the last decade!! Even in the years from 1993-2003 (the years sue fans like to rip on us for losing all the time to them), we were competing for conference championships almost every year. I think the exceptions were 2002 and 2001 (I think, it was the 5-6 year right after the year we played on the kitty litter at Delta State).
UND was PITIFUL throughout the 80's. Yeah, NDSU was also pitiful in the late 50's and early 60's, but that was long enough in the past, and we've managed not to have anything like that happen again. We were almost ALWAYS in a better position than them to win the conference and playoffs or win a championship in football from the 1960's to 2003.
As for UND basketball?? They've been a complete nothing for the past 10 years, and that's all I care about or am willing to go back for.
So in summation, to say that UND football and basketball has this rich, outstanding tradition of winning that can be built upon - I don't buy it.
THANK YOU! It gets old when people say we should respect UND's great football tradition, What tradition? Oh all of those conference championships.....alright cool. What about National Championships? In 85 or 86 I think the Bison beat them 63-12. Football teams with tradition don't get rocked like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBisonator
When I talk to siouxage fans, I usually mention that NDSU has had the better teams for the past 50 years or so, including the rough run in 93-03. They say that a worse team can't beat better ones consistently like that. One day perhaps they will understand how the great game of football works.
Weird how you have those conversations with people but already admitted that you didn't know anything about UND football or its history.Quote:
Originally Posted by 344Johnson
http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/1...47#entry501247
History, being anything before the 80's. I take peoples word who were around when they say 60's is when NDSU started turning it on especially against UND. Can I personally confirm it or do I know the statistics other than 8 championships against 1 for UND? No, not at all. In fact I was very surprised to hear UND has had that many conference titles and a pretty good of a winning percentage, but thats still not football tradition. Tradition is what we have. Or on a bigger scale, what Oklahoma, Alabama, USC, Nebraska, etc. have. UND is a little harder to compare...maybe a Colorado or something? Sometimes pretty good, but not a whole lot to show for it.