Lots of people say this but where's the actual momentum for such a move? All indications on the ground suggest otherwise. Also, how do we know NDSU would have a seat in the (hypothetical) second level?Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
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Lots of people say this but where's the actual momentum for such a move? All indications on the ground suggest otherwise. Also, how do we know NDSU would have a seat in the (hypothetical) second level?Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
That dude is a piss face.Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
I have very strong doubts Congress will act on this, but I'm even more doubtful NDSU wouldn't be in the 2nd level if it happens. How on earth do you find ~200 programs better than us?Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
BTW, I have written my Congress critters about this. Got a form letter back, as expected, but at least they have a data point.
There aren't even 100, I'm not sure there are 50.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
Well he's one of the few that has even tried to legislate on it, understands it, and knows the right people to talk to.Quote:
Originally Posted by NI4NI
Replace "better" with bigger budget and more money. This all comes down to money, not wins and losses.Quote:
Originally Posted by reformedUNDfan
The cut line for tier one will likely be $75-100m+ annual budget balllpark. We have a good shot at tier 2 in a reorg.
I could see something like 50 in I-A, 100 in I-AA (including NDSU), and 150 in I-AAAQuote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
I think it'll be more than 50. There are too many power conference schools, and i don't think they will leave many (hopefully any) behind beyond Wazzu and Oregon St. At least that's my hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
I always thought it would be 64 top tier schools because the math works.Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
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This sounds about right imo. I've seen 22 each for SEC and B1G (44 total) tossed out as what will be the top tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
The financial squeeze is starting to hit a few in I-AA/FCS already, St Francis just announced a move to D3. Supposedly more schools will follow soon.
https://pacathletics.org/news/2025/3...onference.aspx
Not sure what the mechanics of a split will be, but reorg seems highly probable/inevitable over the next few years. It's possible FCS drops some lower tier schools like St Francis, and gains some additions from G5 who get pushed out of FBS.
Right now it looks like 70, but I'm guessing that the remade PAC will be close enough to the Big 12 that they play at they higher level as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by td577
Only the SEC and B1G teams are safely in.Quote:
Originally Posted by reformedUNDfan
B12, and especially some of ACC are considered bubble teams that may not get included in a new top tier. PAC and MWC teams would be a stretch. This is why OSU/WSU had been so desperate to join a P4, and still might if given the chance. Rest of PAC is now a collection of upper tier G5.
It will mostly come down to revenue/expenses imo. They are going to require a very high yearly expenditure as the benchmark for tier 1. Is the cutoff around $75m/year or $100m+ for athletics is the question. And can PAC new media deal bring enough revenue to make that cutoff?
When this all goes down I think the resulting reorg will give us a chance to join the second tier. Somewhere between 2027 and 2030 is my guess on timeline for it to become official.
Meanwhile, Sac State going in the other direction. As an independent no less.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
https://x.com/petethamel/status/1907...618980486?s=46
I am interested to see how their schedule comes about. Both the Pac and the MW are in the neighborhood but their occ games are already scheduled out for a few years. It will be very tough to get FBS games during conference season. It could work with the Pac if they have a an 8 football school model. Maybe they would add Sac as a football only school to get an 8 game conference schedule. Or at least a scheduling agreement of some kind.
Nevada is playing them this upcoming season in a non conference matchup.
Here's Thamel's article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Professorbum
https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...bs-independent
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSBisonFan
"The Hornets had a 3-9 record last season, finishing in a tie for last in the 12-team conference with a 1-7 mark."
I guess when you suck balls you move up to the next level. Who knew?
Does it really matter when a school decides to bolt if you suck at the level you're at (FCS) or go out on top of your division (e.g. NDSU)? At least they're making a move and, apparently, have the leadership in place (the administration) to attempt to make it work. To this, I give Sac State credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by NI4NI
1,000%, cliff… this was my first thought, too. Apparently Sac St reads Bisonville…Quote:
Originally Posted by southcliffbison
This. They're signaling their fan base that they want to be better, and building excitement and momentum moving forward. At least they aren't sitting around thumbing their bag.Quote:
Originally Posted by southcliffbison
It really makes you wonder how coaches build teams with so many players in the portal. From the article in the link above: "More than 160 FBS scholarship quarterbacks have already transferred this offseason."Quote:
Originally Posted by KSBisonFan
NDSU announced it was moving to Division 1 in August 2002. Proceed to go 2-8 that season.Quote:
Originally Posted by NI4NI
If they think they can make it work, go ahead!
For most of G5/G6 they are basically rebuilding their entire roster each year now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
It’s why you see teams that won their conference one year suck the following year. Winning gets the coaches and players noticed and plucked by teams higher up the ladder.
Unfortunately - I think in FBS where this is headed is the same place you see with NCAA tourney this year, where the P2/P4 dominate everything, and just buy the pieces they want from the lower level teams.
P4 are making everyone else their farm league.
Hmm. A school with a vision and the guts to go independent when their 1st (PAC), 2nd (MWC), and 3rd (any FBS Conference) choices don't come to fruition.
Definitely a big risk, but it's ballsy. I'm rooting for it to work for them just because they're willing to take the initiative. Gonna require some big monetary commitments from their fan base.Quote:
Originally Posted by DePereBisonFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by DePereBisonFan
It’s worth the risk: Die quick trying it (or succeed) or die a slow death in the FCS. Only one option has upside.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSBisonFan
Has sankey weighed in yet on sac state?
Not publicly, but I'd bet behind the scenes he has influence on the FBS committee that will be reviewing that waiver request. They've denied the past 2 or 3 waivers schools submitted regarding reclassification rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
What waivers were denied(at least in effect)? UAC was "denied" a new single sport FB conference but they did it anyway and was given an autobid. James Madison was "denied" bowl eligibility in their 2nd year, but was invited to a bowl anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Quote:
Originally Posted by DePereBisonFan
We are in a completely different situation than Sacramento StateQuote:
Originally Posted by KSBisonFan
We are one of the most dominant programs in college football history with 10 FCS National Championships and 8 D2 National Championships
Sacramento State has made the playoffs 7 times in their entire history and have won 4 playoff games all time, 2 at the FCS level . Their all time winning % is .443
We play games on ABC virtually every year, 5 since 2019 and get millions of viewers in ABC and ESPN. Now we even get 1 regular season conference game on an ESPN Network
Sac State is never on TV
We have something to lose. They have nothing to lose
Sac State has a solid fan base but donors aren't interested in stepping up unless they move up. I think they are doing the right thing.
We will move up someday, but not without some sort of conference, whether it's the MW or a newly formed conference
I disagree. I think you are overvaluing those things, and those same things you stated are reasons why a Sac St move might work for us better than it would work for them. And if they can make it work, there is no reason why we couldn’t also.Quote:
Originally Posted by HerdBot
Additionally, you go Indy to get a conference invite. We have been told that the only reason we didn’t get an invite this round is because of the “FCS label.” A move to Indy FBS solves that problem.
To be clear, I am taking about the Independent routeQuote:
Originally Posted by heffray
Sac State is desperate. We are in a tremendous position.
A move to an independent by us would mean zero tv revenue, and probably less exposure. The big money P4 games will go away when they all start playing each other in non conference. No conference championship to aspire to win, no bowl game tie ins and no playoff opportunity
A move to independent by Sac State is at the very least the same
Get us in the MWC, AAC or PAC and its a no brainer. The MAC and CUSA is worth a listen. Even starting a new league with mostly FCS teams is a good idea
Independent = Hell no
We are still in a firm disagreement. Please explain how our position is “tremendous” because I think you are absolutely wrong about that. There is very little tremendous about the FCS right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by HerdBot
I have similar views. Scheduling would likely be a nightmare. Would be tough to assemble a home slate without paying big money for teams to travel. First couple years might be next to impossible to get enough games (most teams schedule 5+ years in advance)Quote:
Originally Posted by HerdBot
IF (huge if) Sac St does get a waiver, will be curious to see how they manage that piece. I don't think many teams from the east coast will want to travel there. They might be able to load up on away buy games (B1G/SEC love to schedule home patsies like Kent St, but avoid better teams like App St). They still need to arrange home games though, and those could be hard to come by. Part of what drove schools like UMass to join conferences now.
Sac St's move cries of "look at me, please."
I'll bet you Sac St gets into the MWC before NDSU.
Location. Location. LocationQuote:
Originally Posted by Bisonator98
She didn't cite that as a reason though. Not at all, and with NIU on board it no longer is at all an issueQuote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
She specifically said pressure form the P4 against FCS callups. Not sure how sac state gets around that one
The whole large-population urban thing is fan-forum bs. What matters is ratings
It's in here. She wanted NDSU, but some of the presidents were scared of sankey
https://www.inforum.com/sports/bison...azy-like-a-fox
Chicago State is in the perfect location. They should be a powerhouse with millions of fans. These conferences take the bad advice of consultants and end up looking like Conference USA full of teams that checked all the boxes... with no teams that people care aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Truth, partly driven by media companies still operating the same way, and focusing directly on DMAs/markets when they sign deals. The conferences are looking to maximize their media deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by HerdBot
ESPN article on Sac St was crowing about how they sit in a "top 20" media market, even though they've got shit for a fanbase, and went a crappy 3-9 in Big Sky.
In spite of all this, believe we would have been invited to MW without Sankey/P4 involvement.
P4 splitting off would be bittersweet. It would improve our odds of joining G4/5/6 (whatever remains). But it would also almost permanently slam the door on dreams of competing for a championship at the top level. There won't be much of a path from G6 to P2/4 status after that.
If (when?) P2/4 leave, the vast majority of the money will as well. What is left will feel like FCS+ at best, with slightly better competition. It will be like rooting for farm system teams that are merely feeders into the P2/P4.
It increasingly looks like the plan is for them to take most of the basketball money as well. Rumors of power basketball conferences splitting from NCAA. That would hit nearly all NCAA sports outside the power conferences. Also rumors floating now that MW will invite a few non-football top basketball schools to shore up that side of things.
Power conference money/greed and NIL are destroying the college sports system. The giants want every crumb now and don't wish to revenue share with NCAA.
LolQuote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
A 'top-20' media market where nobody gives a crap about sac state
Fyp for you. They get a G5 product at FCS prices. No way they want to lose that