Matt Larson not knowing a phone works two ways eh.Quote:
Originally Posted by 56BISON73
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Matt Larson not knowing a phone works two ways eh.Quote:
Originally Posted by 56BISON73
Even he couldnt fuck it up if somebody wanted us.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottietohottie
I think people have mostly opened their eyes at this point that FCS is essentially a place to park a football team at a university that has one (or more) sports that they want to be division 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by TAILG8R
The idea that anyone moves up to FCS for football (other than NDSU/SDSU) 20 years ago should be gone.
As much as I want to see the Bison move up to FBS, I don't 'hate FCS'. It's still worlds better than D2Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
True, and from an objective viewpoint (Sagarin), the top 10-15 FCS schools are better competition than the bottom of G5. As much as some don’t like to admit this MVFC is in fact better than CUSA on the field of play. If Toledo and NIU leave MAC, it would probably be close to a wash with MVFC competition wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by NI4NI
Part of the reason I would like to see SDSU move with us, and ideally the Montanas as well.
Much truth detected in this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
I would still take bottom half of any G5 over bottom half of MVFC…Quote:
Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan
Much truth also detected in this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by heffray
Here is the morning question of the day. Which conference would you rather be invited to join.
Oregon State. UNLV
Wazzu. AFA
Boise State. Nevada
Utah State. Wyoming
San Diego State. San Jose State
Colorado State. Hawaii
Fresno State. New Mexico
??????? UTEP
One of these conferences absolutely has to add another full member.
What say you?
Sorry for the poor formatting..I really have no good excuse for that.
I would be happy/grateful for whichever one you can help us land in :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
Both would be nice homes imo. I am not very optimistic the PAC will glance our way, and do think MW has room to add a few more.
If ndsu and sdsu are subtracted from the mvfc and added to cusa, cusa blows the mvfc away.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Your arguement mistakenly includes ndsu/sdsu in the value of the mvfc to ndsu and sdsu.
In fact cusa jumps the mac as is. Cusa goes to 59.2 with the addition of sdsu and ndsu right now. Its just under the current mwc with both boise and unlv in the top 40.
Mac adding ndsu/sdsu jumps to a mean of 60.4.
The mac is 57.96. Removing toledo and niu makes the mac 56.48. Adding ndsu and sdsu in place of toledo and niu improves upon the mac to 59.54.
Mwc (as is today) adding ndsu/sdsu jumps to a mean of 63.87, jumping the mwc over the sunbelt and american.
Removing ndsu and sdsu drops the mvfc to 50.92.
Ndsu and sdsu are worth 74.84 averaged together right now. Toledo and NIU are worth 65.35 averaged together. UTEP is worth 51.4. Nebraska is worth 74.83, .01 less than Ndsu/sdsu averaged.
Ndsu and sdsu added to every conference in D1 would improve its sagarin strength, except b12, big10, and sec.
Adding ndsu/sdsu is a net gain for the ACC. A functioning power conference. These G5 conferences are fucking idiots.
The ACC is 74.05, with ndsu/sdsu it increases in strength to a 74.13. Minor, but an addition.
Any G5 conference that doesn't see the metric fuckton of football strength that the dakota states weild is idiotic. It is akin to saying as a G5 you dont want a program like syracuse, arizona state, texas tech, nebraska etc to join your conference for football only. Obviously they do and would. Those are the comparable football programs on the field. The strength of your league generates the ability to make the playoff. Making the playoff generates interest and viewers in your conferences games. All of this is where the money is. Weak leagues will never have a champion that makes the playoff. If you want money build a league that can make the playoff. Inviting utep is how you damn your champion to never making the playoff.
Toledo and niu are idiotic football only adds for the mwc. They are substantially worse football programs than ndsu/sdsu. People watch good football. The more good football is elevated the larger the audiences. Good football = $$$$$$$.
Adding utep was dumb, adding niu and toledo is dumb.
Looking at the on field performance data makes me very frustrated regarding this topic lol
Been trying to explain this to him for years. You can’t say “the MVFC is better for us than CUSA because it’s stronger at the top”. WE ARE the fuckin top lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Twentysix
Exactly!
And here's the ironic twist...
FCS becomes BETTER once the _DSUs are gone. Our dominance has totally ruined the FCS playoff allure. Everyone is sick of "those damned Dakota teams" winning everything every year. Hell, the FCS should be willing to fund our transitions just to get rid of us!
I wish conferences used the same criteria you do above and based additions on competitive strength. All the activity of the past several cycles suggests they don’t and care more about location, markets, and media $. If a media partner tells the conferences they will pay them more per school to add us, then we have a chance. It always comes down to things like travel and money. Schools like Kennesaw obviously don’t belong in FBS but supposedly add the “Atlanta market” according to CUSA. They hardly give two shits about how many games they won or lost in FCS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentysix
This is the based perspective. It’s time to give the little basketball school teacher colleges their subdivision back. Been saying it since 2019.Quote:
Originally Posted by NI4NI
FCS is an awesome level for them. Ho hum sweatervest-wearing “golly gee shucks hope the ol’ ball coach can put together a winning season” subdivision. No place for a high G5 program.
Perfectly stated and well done. However, logic doesnt seem to be a part of the equation any longer. I have it on pretty good authority that the "warning" from Sankey and the SEC to not add additional FCS schools was very persuasive/determinative to the MWC. After that discussion from their overlords, the conversation with SDSU/NDSU changed significantly with Sankey's directive being cited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentysix
Well that sucks donkey balls! I was afraid that might be a factor based on media reporter rumors, but wasn't certain. It seems you have a confirmed source.Quote:
Originally Posted by BisonJD
Does college football have an anti-trust exemption? Since this is all apparently 'business' now with 'employees', how can industry incumbents work together (collude) to reduce competition? Seems like a clear case to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by BisonJD
FYI, BisonJD is someone to listen to; he is well connected. This 100% matches what Dom and McFeely and others have been saying as well and remember, these guys are constantly talking to folks behind the scenes off the record. This may be a bigger current road block than location right now.....Quote:
Originally Posted by BisonJD
If we can't leave the fcs, we should leave the mvfc and build an fcs super conference that has ONLY teams that try.
The FCS regular season sucks.
While I agree in theory, this seems like an enormously expensive battle to wage that could get us blackballed in other ways like ooc scheduling. And even if won, the power conferences will likely resort to other measures like continuing to escalate costs of FBS to make it difficult to remain in their group/classification. It looks like they are already working to reduce the number of schools that can remain in the top tier over the next few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gully
My hope now is either one or both of NIU/Toledo says no to MW, forcing them to consider NDSU/SDSU again. Alternatively it is likely we see a major restructuring of FBS in the next 3-5 years. The power conferences already want to shed themselves of some of the lower conference schools that they consider dead weight.
Whats ironic in a way is the FBS power conferences have the same view of much of the G5 conferences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentysix
Part of the reason I really want to see us aim to join one of the better G5 conferences if at all possible. It's not at all clear to me that the lower G5 will be able to remain in FBS unless there is a split between P4 and G5/6.
An FCS super conference would make the regular season more fun, but could reduce the number of teams making the playoffs. The politics of the committee will limit the number of bids awarded to a single conference imo.
Why the fuck does Sankey care? I could see why the B1G would not want the XDSUs in FBS (see goldy and bucky), but who in the SEC gives a rat’s ass? This is all garbage BS and if the G5 leadership is eating it then they deserve the fate that awaits themQuote:
Originally Posted by BisonJD
Most of the playoffs suck too. A guranteed better regular season is an upgrade. Not to mention the mvfc has already achieved a 50% playoff participation in years past. The mvfc is a shell of itself. I'd maybe bring illinois state along with the dakotas, the rest of the mvfc isn't worth playing ever again. Make a football only plane league with schools who actually fund football. Surely we can claw together 8 or 10. It would be exactly like the pioneer, except the opposite level of effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
If you combine the top half of the MVFC and Big Sky it would be a fun and pretty dominant league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentysix
I wonder whether schools like Montana, MSU, Idaho would want to do this. They seem pretty content being the top schools in Big Sky. There is a pretty good argument that dropping schools like Murray St would be addition by subtraction. Didn’t we vote against adding them though ?
FWIW, a handful of other well connected FBS reporters like Matt Brown have been quietly saying the same thing in tweets and various posts. It’s not just the Fargo press.Quote:
Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan
I think the whole narrative that it’s all up to ML and that we can just force our way into a FBS conference has always been a dumb take. There’s a lot more involved that we simply don’t control.
This is great! Thank you for putting all of this together. The thing that it doesn't mention is that NDSU and SDSU are land grant universities with strong academic profiles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentysix
Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
If you only add 8 really good teams, one of them will be 1-7. That's why it's good to have some variability in the quality of teams. That usually builds organically over time. But your original goal wouldn't be to create a conference of only top tier programs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentysix
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
The current situation with the P2 is why many of us have been critical of what seemed like a wait and see approach regarding FBS until more recently. Would it have changed the outcome? Maybe not but I don't think it would have hurt us either and we just may have found a chair earlier in this big game of musical chairs. If the P2 are now putting up barriers for FCS movement, than being less aggressive to move FBS is even more worthy of criticism. Also, criticism of ML isn't just about FBS. At least not for me. ML has also not shown much in the way of helping to build a more balanced athletic department in terms of funding and success. If you want to make ML a victim, so be it. I just don't see it that way and much like many have stated regarding Entz, his public PR approach has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
I do believe that the CFP people have urged the Pac Who and the Mountain West not to add any FCS schools.
My question is why?
To be sure they don't want to add extra slices to the money pie. That seems reasonable to me.
But the niggling thought I have is this. If it is inevitable that the P4 is going to break away and form their own professional football league why would they care who G6 conferences adds or not?
Is it possible a break away is not really on the table yet?
Why did the MW schools sign a GOR in force until 2032. The ACC GOR ends in 31. Why did the MW waive any exit fees for all their members if schools are invited to a P4 conference?
I don't think ML is a victim or perfect, just that some of the anger is misplaced. There is tendency here to believe that because of our FCS results every conference should be falling over themselves to add us, and this simply isn't true. The criteria and decision making process is much more complex, and geography does work against us. The primary reason Missouri St was more appealing to a couple conferences is geography. G5 prefer to travel less.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
Where I agree is that the athletic department should be "more balanced" and in particular spend more on basketball. Nothing grabs other conferences attention more than some March Madness deep runs. That translates into more credits, money and prestige that all the conferences want. To fund basketball properly costs a fraction of what we've been plowing into football. Increasing basketball budget by a few million would move the needle. However, its not clear if there would be a direct economic return to NDSU in the short term, unless our fanbase chooses to embrace basketball.
I don't think the SEC is thinking about the XDSU's, they're thinking about all the FCS schools in the southeast--and there are a lot of them--trying to move up and dilute the money flow....eventually, the SEC and the BG10 will maneuver things so that they control virtually everything. They're moving more slowly than most people thought they would, but this is a first step....Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Time to form our own conference if Sankey wants to block us from the MWC, bring every damn Dakota school up, the Montana schools and Idaho. If he doesn't want it he can fight 4 Governors, 8 Senators and 4 attorney generals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gully
Are you asking that if we get an invite to the PAC and Softball says they don't want to do it are we screwed?Quote:
Originally Posted by NI4NI
Money.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Fewer slices of the pie means more pie for Sankey.
Don't think like a football fan; think like a college administrator watching the dollars. More for me; none for you.
As GCW says, the SEC and B1G are on a path to total control.
Did you read the Forum article last week about Bucky? During the initial move to D1, he opposed it and was pretty open with Gene about that. He eventually came around, but that move wasn't unanimous internally.Quote:
Originally Posted by BISONBRI53
The problem is even if this was successful, it wouldn't force any other FBS school to schedule us OOC, or for us to be added to the CFP, which is a private corporate entity outside of NCAA jurisdiction. We could "win" and still find ourselves in the equivalent of a FBS Ivy league or SWAC type situation. This was the whole idea of the UAC, which doesn't seem to be going anywhere yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUstudent
CorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by BISONBRI53
That is what I was questioning