A new and better FBS thread

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Originally Posted by NDSUstudent

AAC taking Texas State would make things interesting, would put the MWC and PAC fighting over even more of the same limited FBS options.

None of these FBS programs being considered have very good football, which could help us potentially. UTEP for example gets a lot of hype but they haven't done anything in football for decades. NMSU is even worse, they would be a mid FCS program.

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The whole thing is a joke. Why would NIU and Toledo leave the MAC for the depleted Mountain West who has no TV contract and half the good teams left? Plus for Toledo (Eastern Time Zone) all the road games will be 2 to 3 timezone away

Both Conferences are desperate and think they are bigger than they are. The Pac 12 was pretty arrogant thinking Memphis will leave a much more stable AAC and better conference. Now they are so desperate they are looking at UCONN

Both the MW and Pac12 have 7 teams with no additions and it's diluted. Both are at risk of collapsing.

What happens in a few years when the PAC gets a better TV deal than the MW? How many teams will jump to the PAC? Or what if Washington State or Oregon State get a P4 offer?

You dont get a good TV deal by staying small and hoarding the money. You need a conference of 12-14 teams. Sorry but UNLV isn't a big deal. If they were, the MW would have a huge TV deal already. UNLV has the worst TV ratings in the conference

The only teams that are realistic are Texas State, New Mexico State, and UTEP. So you have 2 conferences with 7 teams fighting over 3 teams. So you end up with 2 bad conferences

If that happens, CUSA will be down to 9 teams and Sam Houston or Jacksonville State want to will jump to the Sunbelt
So they could be down to 8 or less

But if I'm the AAC, I'm going to add those teams first to screw over the PAC12 for trying to poach my top teams

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Originally Posted by HerdBot

The whole thing is a joke. Why would NIU and Toledo leave the MAC for the depleted Mountain West who has no TV contract and half the good teams left? Plus for Toledo (Eastern Time Zone) all the road games will be 2 to 3 timezone away

Both Conferences are desperate and think they are bigger than they are. The Pac 12 was pretty arrogant thinking Memphis will leave a much more stable AAC and better conference. Now they are so desperate they are looking at UCONN

Both the MW and Pac12 have 7 teams with no additions and it's diluted. Both are at risk of collapsing.

What happens in a few years when the PAC gets a better TV deal than the MW? How many teams will jump to the PAC? Or what if Washington State or Oregon State get a P4 offer?

You dont get a good TV deal by staying small and hoarding the money. You need a conference of 12-14 teams. Sorry but UNLV isn't a big deal. If they were, the MW would have a huge TV deal already. UNLV has the worst TV ratings in the conference

The only teams that are realistic are Texas State, New Mexico State, and UTEP. So you have 2 conferences with 7 teams fighting over 3 teams. So you end up with 2 bad conferences

If that happens, CUSA will be down to 9 teams and Sam Houston or Jacksonville State want to will jump to the Sunbelt
So they could be down to 8 or less

But if I'm the AAC, I'm going to add those teams first to screw over the PAC12 for trying to poach my top teams

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Toledo @ hawaii is 5 timezones. A 7pm hawaii game would start at midnight in toledo and finish at 3-4am lol. Idk if hawaii plays night games though.

This whole round of shuffling is feeling slightly insane.

All started with USC and UCLA to B1G, which was a geographic misfit, but done for media money. The $ at that level are huge.
Then PAC imploded, and we had wierdness like Calford buying their way into the ACC out of desperation.

We got to the PAC rebuild, and the moves to take top of MW and try to poach top of AAC were somewhat expected.

But now unless they have some master plan we can't see, its looking like the MW has drunk the same koolaid and gone batshit crazy. Reaching all the way to NIU and Toledo is nothing more than trying to skim the top couple MAC teams.

Not sure what this means next, maybe the top SBC teams are targets too.
Feels like everyone is racing now to grab as much cream off the top as they can, and leave the duds behind.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

This whole round of shuffling is feeling slightly insane.

All started with USC and UCLA to B1G, which was a geographic misfit, but done for media money. The $ at that level are huge.
Then PAC imploded, and we had wierdness like Calford buying their way into the ACC out of desperation.

We got to the PAC rebuild, and the moves to take top of MW and try to poach top of AAC were somewhat expected.

But now unless they have some master plan we can't see, its looking like the MW has drunk the same koolaid and gone batshit crazy. Reaching all the way to NIU and Toledo is nothing more than trying to skim the top couple MAC teams.

Not sure what this means next, maybe the top SBC teams are targets too.
Feels like everyone is racing now to grab as much cream off the top as they can, and leave the duds behind.

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A) I don’t believe it
B) If it actually did happen I’m guessing it was a consultant doing some out of the box thinking and the MW schools said “ahh what the hell let’s give it a shot”. This is probably most likely scenario IMO. Just a new consultant doing due diligence and peeking under every rock before exploring less desirable options.
C) If it is part of a serious plan, either these schools will say no or they will fall for a one-time payout and be doomed to terrible travel forever and they can kiss goodbye to the MAC for Olympics. My guess is they’ll say no, SBC schools will be next and they’ll say no (especially to a GoR or any sort of written commitment). And the MW will be back in the same boat as the PAC. Maybe more money, but travel and the thought of excluding yourself from a future ACC or AAC invite is a dealbreaker for schools outside their geographic footprint to the east.

Literally makes 0 sense to me but that’s fine I guess. The good news is they’re apparently desperate and now apparently the big three excuses as to why we can’t get an invite (location, media market, football only invite) are all thrown out the window.

Hell, maybe the mac gets nervous and passive aggressive and talks to us and SDSU as a way to strengthen their western flank and also take options off the table for MW.

Be careful guys. You're distracting the Bison defense.



Bahahahaha.

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Originally Posted by HerdBot

Both Conferences are desperate and think they are bigger than they are.

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When they figure that out, after rejection after rejection, they'll end up together in the end is still my guess.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

When they figure that out, after rejection after rejection, they'll end up together in the end is still my guess.

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They have 2 years, so you could be right. Cooler heads may eventually prevail. With that said, lots of bruised egos right now; just have to hope they stay mad at each other. :)

Guano Loco Scenario:

- Have the MWC snag four full from MAC (NIU, Tol, and 2 of 3 of Buff/Kent/Ohio)
- MAC backfills with a western pod of "Dakota Four"

No crazier than Toledo and NIU as FB only to MWC.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

Guano Loco Scenario:

- Have the MWC snag four full from MAC (NIU, Tol, and 2 of 3 of Buff/Kent/Ohio)
- MAC backfills with a western pod of "Dakota Four"

No crazier than Toledo and NIU as FB only to MWC.

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A month ago everyone would have called that insane.

Now, who knows? Its like the weird kids with money are running around town on prom night asking out all the hottest chicks and seeing who says yes. Eventually they work their way down to the cute girls next door.

May be a few more crazy weeks ahead.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

A month ago everyone would have called that insane.

Now, who knows? Its like the weird kids with money are running around town on prom night asking out all the hottest chicks and seeing who says yes. Eventually they work their way down to the cute girls next door.

May be a few more crazy weeks ahead.

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That only works until the normal kids with money get tired of the weird kids hitting on the cute girls and put the weird kids back in their place.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

A month ago everyone would have called that insane.

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It's still insane, but it's gone from "no chance in < bleep>" to "nothing would surprise me".

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

C) If it is part of a serious plan, either these schools will say no or they will fall for a one-time payout and be doomed to terrible travel forever and they can kiss goodbye to the MAC for Olympics. My guess is they’ll say no, SBC schools will be next and they’ll say no (especially to a GoR or any sort of written commitment). And the MW will be back in the same boat as the PAC. Maybe more money, but travel and the thought of excluding yourself from a future ACC or AAC invite is a dealbreaker for schools outside their geographic footprint to the east.

Literally makes 0 sense to me but that’s fine I guess. The good news is they’re apparently desperate and now apparently the big three excuses as to why we can’t get an invite (location, media market, football only invite) are all thrown out the window.

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This really resonates with me.

I go back and forth between thinking, "after hearing ML, it sure sounds like he wants to go and would accept" and wishing we were more aggressive. It does seem like the reasons often cited for not wanting NDSU are sort of losing credibility with some of the schools they're inviting or are rumored to be considering. Here is where our school should be sharing TV ratings history and more nuanced market/population information with the decision makers. Maybe they are? I'm only mildly confident of that, at best.

NDSU to do list for Friday, September 27th:

Call every D1 conference in the United States of America and remind them not to forget about NDSU. Confirm they have the correct phone number.

If you get voice-mail, burn up the entire message by playing Thunderstruck and Don't You Forget About Me on an alternating loop.

I don't understand. maybe NDSU leadership really doesn't want to move up.

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Originally Posted by Gopher24

I don't understand. maybe NDSU leadership really doesn't want to move up.

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You can't hire an assistant to do that for you eh. So yeah they don't want to.

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Originally Posted by scottietohottie

You can't hire an assistant to do that for you eh. So yeah they don't want to.

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I'm just saying I Don't understand what's going on. Do you? If so please explain it.

Mountain West looking at Toledo Rockets.
PAC looking at Sacramento State.

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Originally Posted by KSBisonFan

That only works until the normal kids with money get tired of the weird kids hitting on the cute girls and put the weird kids back in their place.

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That's when the weird kid starts hitting on Grandma's in hot tubs...

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Originally Posted by Gopher24

I don't understand. maybe NDSU leadership really doesn't want to move up.

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Not sure what anyone expects them to do right now.

The conferences set their own timelines and agenda. And right now they are still flying around the country trying to poach the best FBS teams they can find.

This phase of craziness has to pass before we get to the adding FCS teams stage. Just like MW wasn’t ever going to move until it became clear what the PAC was going to do. It’s all a cascade that occurs in a predictable sequence. Shit starts at the top and flows downhill.

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Originally Posted by Gopher24

I don't understand. maybe NDSU leadership really doesn't want to move up.

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I don’t think this is the case now, but it certainly was before when it would have been much easier. POTU makes the call. I’ll let you guys do the math on that …

But it’s obvious now that the door on FCS is slamming shut, and I’m not surprised by any of this, fwiw

PAC and MWC are in a dick measuring contest, and MWC presidents still consider themselves top tier G5, so FCS is the last resort for them

Can NIU get other sports into the MVC? If so, then they go. No idea about Toledo. MAC refills with Deleware/Umass, and it’s back to CUSA for us and their (relatively) shitty media deal

I say take it out on the Redbirds this weekend

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

Not sure what anyone expects them to do right now.

The conferences set their own timelines and agenda. And right now they are still flying around the country trying to poach the best FBS teams they can find.

This phase of craziness has to pass before we get to the adding FCS teams stage. Just like MW wasn’t ever going to move until it became clear what the PAC was going to do. It’s all a cascade that occurs in a predictable sequence. Shit starts at the top and flows downhill.

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Sacramento State is not an FBS school. They are building a stadium and announcing their intentions to move to FBS. I would expect NDSU to announce their intentions like all the other top FCS schools which have already moved over. Or they can sit and do nothing.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

Not sure what anyone expects them to do right now.

The conferences set their own timelines and agenda. And right now they are still flying around the country trying to poach the best FBS teams they can find.

This phase of craziness has to pass before we get to the adding FCS teams stage. Just like MW wasn’t ever going to move until it became clear what the PAC was going to do. It’s all a cascade that occurs in a predictable sequence. Shit starts at the top and flows downhill.

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Shit rolls downhill and we're still in the Valley.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

I don’t think this is the case now, but it certainly was before when it would have been much easier. POTU makes the call. I’ll let you guys do the math on that …

But it’s obvious now that the door on FCS is slamming shut, and I’m not surprised by any of this, fwiw

PAC and MWC are in a dick measuring contest, and MWC presidents still consider themselves top tier G5, so FCS is the last resort for them

Can NIU get other sports into the MVC? If so, then they go. No idea about Toledo. MAC refills with Deleware/Umass, and it’s back to CUSA for us and their (relatively) shitty media deal

I say take it out on the Redbirds this weekend

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The MVC wouldn't even glance in the direction of NIU. Zero chance they come to the aid of a football school that is trash at basketball. Horizon is the best they could hope for.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

I don’t think this is the case now, but it certainly was before when it would have been much easier. POTU makes the call. I’ll let you guys do the math on that …

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It is almost like there were reasons he had that feeling, real or perceived.
He's on record saying he thinks excess funds basically aren't there and they've squeezed about as much from donors as they could. So he didn't see a viable path forward to increase the athletic budget $15+ million annually.
Students shot down the last attempt to raise athletic fees.
Enrollment was bottoming out.
The overall University budget wasn't in a good spot and still has holes in it after he left.

Maybe he didn't want to roll the dice on leaving a bigger mess than he already had done?

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Originally Posted by abc123

It is almost like there were reasons he had that feeling, real or perceived.
He's on record saying he thinks excess funds basically aren't there and they've squeezed about as much from donors as they could. So he didn't see a viable path forward to increase the athletic budget $15+ million annually.
Students shot down the last attempt to raise athletic fees.
Enrollment was bottoming out.
The overall University budget wasn't in a good spot and still has holes in it after he left.

Maybe he didn't want to roll the dice on leaving a bigger mess than he already had done?

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Seriously, read the thread first before commenting. Listen to McFeely on Dom's show. Unlike UND, NDSU does not fund athletics on the back of students and that is a good thing. They money is there and will be private.

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Originally Posted by gotts

Shit rolls downhill and we're still in the Valley.

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This should be on one of those motivational posters with a scenic background.

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Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan

Seriously, read the thread first before commenting. Listen to McFeely on Dom's show. Unlike UND, NDSU does not fund athletics on the back of students and that is a good thing. They money is there and will be private.

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At this point he should be praying NDSU gets called up. That's the only prayer they have if they ever have FBS aspirations

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Originally Posted by Gopher24

Sacramento State is not an FBS school. They are building a stadium and announcing their intentions to move to FBS. I would expect NDSU to announce their intentions like all the other top FCS schools which have already moved over. Or they can sit and do nothing.

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Sac St got all the politicians together and raised a shit ton of money to say "look at us" and backed it up by rolling out plans for a new stadium. Big money like that gets some attention in a California market. Doesn't mean they are in, or will get selected over us.

What are we going to do? Say "hey, we're the best, our team will beat everyone. take us!"

It would just look desperate unless we announce we're replacing the fargodome next year. We can't even get a bathroom remodel to pass. Everyone in FCS can raise their hands and say pick me. Hell, SDSU can waive the "we're the best" flag too.

I still haven't seen any rumors about Sac St getting an invite, they are on the sidelines like us until the FBS schools are done. I'll be surprised if they get an invite over FBS options.

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Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan

Listen to McFeely on Dom's show.

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Gold standard or anti-NDSU schmuck? I lose track.

Knight DB says NDSU Athletics is $32M now. McF says $42M for FBS.
Who is shelling out $10M annually (before NIL considerations)?

Sac is probably the first FCS option because of population and location.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

Sac St got all the politicians together and raised a shit ton of money to say "look at us" and backed it up by rolling out plans for a new stadium. Big money like that gets some attention in a California market. Doesn't mean they are in, or will get selected over us.

What are we going to do? Say "hey, we're the best, our team will beat everyone. take us!"

It would just look desperate unless we announce we're replacing the fargodome next year. We can't even get a bathroom remodel to pass. Everyone in FCS can raise their hands and say pick me. Hell, SDSU can waive the "we're the best" flag too.

I still haven't seen any rumors about Sac St getting an invite, they are on the sidelines like us until the FBS schools are done. I'll be surprised if they get an invite over FBS options.

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it absolutely gets attention in a California market. You are right. Along with all these bottom tier Texas schools getting looks. 5-10 years ago with NDSU winning national championships imagine thinking Missouri State and Sacramento State would be looked at before NDSU to join FBS. It doesn't hurt to put in a little effort and let the conferences know you are interested. NDSU still has leverage. Tons of national championships and an amazing fan base as shown on College Gameday hosting.
At this pace I can see NDSU joining MAC around 2044 along with Saint Thomas.

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Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan

Seriously, read the thread first before commenting. Listen to McFeely on Dom's show. Unlike UND, NDSU does not fund athletics on the back of students and that is a good thing. They money is there and will be private.

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I don't think it's as clear cut as you say. I'm still not convinced, McFeely not withstanding, that Cook wants to move up.

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Originally Posted by Gopher24

it absolutely gets attention in a California market. You are right. Along with all these bottom tier Texas schools getting looks. 5-10 years ago with NDSU winning national championships imagine thinking Missouri State and Sacramento State would be looked at before NDSU to join FBS. It doesn't hurt to put in a little effort and let the conferences know you are interested. NDSU still has leverage. Tons of national championships and an amazing fan base as shown on College Gameday hosting.
At this pace I can see NDSU joining MAC around 2044 along with Saint Thomas.

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2044 seems reasonable with ML still at the helm.

if you want the pretty girls to dance with you ask them. Otherwise they will dance with Missouri State even though they are uglier because they don't know that you like them.

All we hear are crickets from NDSU on FBS

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Originally Posted by GCWaters

I don't think it's as clear cut as you say. I'm still not convinced, McFeely not withstanding, that Cook wants to move up.

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NDSU donors are doing about $8.5M of a $32M budget (see: Knight DB).
They'd have to more than double that to get to McF's $42M number.

Is that what Cook sees?
He has a lot on his plate (enrollment foremost) but everything goes back to dollars.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

NDSU donors are doing about $8.5M of a $32M budget (see: Knight DB).
They'd have to more than double that to get to McF's $42M number.

Is that what Cook sees?
He has a lot on his plate (enrollment foremost) but everything goes back to dollars.

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Why not just get the same level of public funding from the state that UND enjoys as a start???

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Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan

Seriously, read the thread first before commenting. Listen to McFeely on Dom's show. Unlike UND, NDSU does not fund athletics on the back of students and that is a good thing. They money is there and will be private.

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Read what I wrote, real or perceived, the comments on the budget are a quote directly from Bresciani. Going to trust his comments over McFeely, who can put whatever he wants out there and not have to source it or back it up. And not even saying I agree with DB, but it was a pretty interesting comment at minimum.

UND got the support from students to raise their fees.
NDSU doesn't get more student funds because the students keep voting against additional fees. I find it hard to believe that NDSU wouldn't take more funds from students if they could, because they literally have tried multiple times and failed. Pretending the athletic department has lower fees out of the goodness of their hearts is hilarious.

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Originally Posted by abc123

Read what I wrote, real or perceived, the comments on the budget are a quote directly from Bresciani. Going to trust his comments over McFeely, who can put whatever he wants out there and not have to source it or back it up.

UND got the support from students to raise their fees.
NDSU doesn't get more student funds because the students keep voting against additional fees. I find it hard to believe that NDSU wouldn't take more funds from students if they could, because they literally have tried multiple times and failed. Pretending the athletic department has lower fees out of the goodness of their hearts is hilarious.

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Absolutely true. Athletics asked, and the students shot them down.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

Gold standard or anti-NDSU schmuck? I lose track.

Knight DB says NDSU Athletics is $32M now. McF says $42M for FBS.
Who is shelling out $10M annually (before NIL considerations)?

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an improved media contract

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Originally Posted by reformedUNDfan

an improved media contract

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The MWC pre-dismantling wasn't getting $10M per.
After losing the top it's not getting better.

NDSU's media dollars are at SBC or better levels now.

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Originally Posted by abc123

Read what I wrote, real or perceived, the comments on the budget are a quote directly from Bresciani. Going to trust his comments over McFeely, who can put whatever he wants out there and not have to source it or back it up.

UND got the support from students to raise their fees.
NDSU doesn't get more student funds because the students keep voting against additional fees. I find it hard to believe that NDSU wouldn't take more funds from students if they could, because they literally have tried multiple times and failed. Pretending the athletic department has lower fees out of the goodness of their hearts is hilarious.

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And that was a good thing; students should not be funding athletics. No one should be proud of their students for voting dumb. Just a reminder of the golf between NDSU and UND for funding athletics on the back of students:

https://sportsdata.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

48% versus 26% and you are proud of that?