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FB-only feels a long ways off, at least at the conference level.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Right now, NCAA rules prevent formation of a FBS single sport conference.
NCAA also recently ruled against appeal by ASun-WAC to let them form a single conference football league.
There are definitely some barriers at the moment to this.
First, my apologies. I'm not sure where else to put this ponderance. And it might be paranoia, but ...
Were the Dakota 4 Shanghai'd by the MVC?
The MVC now has Murray State (FB in MVFC).
The MVC now has six FB schools (IllSU, IndSU, Murray, UNI, MoiSt, SIU). <-- The MVC could pull in football (out from the MVFC).
They'd likely pull in (as FB affiliates) Youngstown and probably Robert Morris (who's looking for a home). There's eight. That works.
And they become a stronger all-sports conference with football, football their way however meaning BB first.
As their bonus ... no more trips to play FB in the Dakotas.
Should that happen, what's left of the MVFC? xDSUs and UxDs.
(Remember: WIU is gone to the OVC.)
Looking at this through the MVC lens, this feels uncomfortably orchestrated. (Get Murray into MVC/MVFC knowing WIU would leave for OVC.)
It looks like the MVC-first schools are setting up to hang the Dakota 4 out to dry, at least in football, and likely with the Summit too (by getting WIU to leave).
Or is this happenstance and paranoia.
Yes, maybe a little of both.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
I could see MVC looking to take ownership of FB for branding and control purposes.
CAA a while back took over what was previously the A10 football conference, but the membership stayed the same. They still have non-CAA schools in that league (America East, Big East and A10 schools think)
I don't see them booting the Dakota schools, it would diminish the brand and stature of the conference.
Weren't the xDSUs a stop-gap for the Gateway/MVFC back in 2007/2008? WKU just bolted leaving them at 7. The xDSUs: right place, right time (that's a compliment, not a slight).Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
(See timeline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missou...all_Conference )
Now the MVC sees not two but four Dakotas. The xDSUs were still needed so the UxDs were begrudgingly (schedule concessions) added. So much for stop-gap.
But today the MVC really doesn't need the Dakota 4 (and the travel and the losses). They have other, better-for-them options with six plus two potential affiliates (YSU, BobbyMo).
To my eye it's a bit too perfect.
But, it could just be paranoia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
Correctly labeled as paranoia. No chance that it will happen.
I think a bit paranoid. But I don't think they'd shed a tear if Dakota schools left. Its a marriage of convenience, not love.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
Don't read too much into the waiver denial. NCAA had a temporary ban on single sport conferences since 2020 but it expires this June. There's no need to go through the paperwork of a waiver for something that's going to automatically be allowed in a few weeks anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
There is talk that single sport moratorium could be extended.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
Beyond that, FBS conferences have additional, specific requirements that currently preclude FB-only conference:
*. A total of at least eight active FBS members.
*. To be counted toward this total, a school must participate in conference play in at least six men's and eight women's sports, including men's and women's basketball, football, and at least two other women's team sports.
To transition to FBS, you also generally need to be invited to an existing FBS conference. Would require waivers otherwise, and the general mood of NCAA seems to be denial of any waivers that make FBS transition easier.
Hence the thought and the paranoia.Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
So you tell me … Did the B1G want to add USC/UCLA for their Olympic sports?Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
They did it for FB, and the rest of the show must now fly all over the country because of chasing FB $$. This from the top bastions of higher learning, who rake in millions in federal grants touting buzz words like “green” and “sustainability” …
Giving the NCAA credit for anything is premature, given the tenure of the previous admin
There has to be a better way to do this
Funny when “green” was a buzz word for something else it wasn’t a problem. Also, no mention of the oodles of money these same institutions get from the department of defense. Gotta wonder if you’re hating on the player or the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by bisonaudit
Not hating on anybody. Well ... there's one exception ...
Just pointing out the obvious here
There's no logic involved, just cash. System needs some guard rails
You spotlight the hypocrisy well.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
I love you too. https://forum.siouxsports.com/upload...efault_wub.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Was talking about the bunnies bro, our one true rivalQuote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
so yeah, no hard feelings
you just don’t get to have everything NDSU has … sorry but it’s only fair ;)
But back on topic, I have no problem “green” and “sustainability”
I just don’t see why all the other sports should have to suffer travel just for FB $$
Why would it be that hard to have both B1G and “B1G FB” as conferences, that might not look the same in make-up?
The whole MVC/MVFC thing seems to be working out OK to me. Not a fan of Summit FB
To be clear, I’m not saying it doesn’t make sense to do this, just that the NCAA doesn’t currently permit it, and it doesn’t look like that will change very quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Some of the NCAA legislative changes are actually going the other direction, and they are “raising the standards” of FBS by requiring more support for other programs in a way that raise the costs further. Reading between the lines, I think they are trying to create more cost barriers to teams moving to FBS.
F SDSU. NDSU goes FBS alone
F hockey F Fenton F all of this.
SHIT OR LOSE THE FANBASE STONY BROOK!! (YOUVE ALREADY LOST THE MOMENTUM BY NOT GOING ALRWADY !!)
have a good weekend everyone
Was thinking you meant poster not school. My bad. :blush:Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
The momentum in the NCAA right now is against single-sport conferences. (Right now single-sport conferences are not allowed to introduce legislation or so I've been told. Paging Hammersmith ... )Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
I'd guess your StonyB is working behind the scenes with Fenton to figure out:Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
- how to move given the Summit has a men's soccer issue that could affect the BB autobid, and
- what the MVC is up to now that the Dakota 4 are now a guaranteed minority voting block in the MVFC.
That the Dak4 are now an entrenched minority also tells me who PattyV is beholden to (and it ain't Fenton and the Summit).
Have a good weekend as well; be careful out there.
I got something wrong in my answer. The deadline for the MW is June 30th instead of June 1. My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
So ... July 1. :frog:Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
No, June 30th. That would be the deadline to announce San Diego State is leaving the MW so they could be wherever they are going in 2024.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
Interesting move, and likely not coincidence given the new $$ that will come in with the expanded playoff. Wonder who is driving this, and why am I not surprised ...Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Is there any way they can kick schools out? There are clearly some in FBS right now who don't belong there. Looking at most of CUSA, TBH
I do hope they find a way to make an exception for NDSU, because NDSU FB is clearly exceptional
Only if they fail to meet FBS requirements. But some quotes I had read previously seemed to suggest to me that they may hope the increased financial burden will cause some schools to drop down. Instead of enforcing the 15k attendance rule, now they want to create tiers based on finances, at least it appears that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
If the P5 eventually split off - that too will likely be determined either by conference membership and/or financial requirements. They could, for instance mandate a certain minimum salary for players, etc.
FBS is increasingly becoming big money driven, in all respects. Becoming hard for schools with less than $50-60mil budgets to compete.
Are you talking just football budgets or overall?
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ne-30-deadline
For those of you who might have interest: This is a piece that explains the dilemmas and machinations involved in tv deals, realignment and exit fees.
Boise St must have a stony brook administrator too because they should be in the PAC—12 by now!!!!! Or they don’t know how to schmooze or sales pitch……Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
Better pray the PAC12 doesn’t dissolve because SDSU leaving the MWC gives us the open spot. This is our best chance to get to FBS. Stony brook also shouldQuote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
Be as worried about keeping the summit whole so we don’t lose an autobid, until we are FBS I don’t care how we keep the summit alive including adding hockey or football.
Crazy to think SDSU is worth 30 million but is only getting 4 million right now….. I just don’t see it outside of that big basketball run they had this year. SDSU would have already been added if they were worth 30 million a year in media deals!Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
That basketball run does pay out $10m to MWC, even though it isn't generally how schools are valued. Certainly doesn't hurt in terms of making other conferences interested though. From the article below, it looks like B12 may be a fallback for SDSU if PAC doesn't work out.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.Schlossman Fan Club
A lot of the value comes down to "markets", and both SDSU and SMU are seen as giving eyeballs in desirable media markets.
It is rumored SDSU/SMU were part of the package being marketed for PACs new media deal. The media companies want to know what they are buying. If PAC can continue to get $30m average per team in the media deal, then thats what they'll pay.
Some schools may be worth $50m to the media, and others worth $10m, but generally conferences pay all schools the same.
AAC is one exception I am aware of, they gave $7m/year to legacy members, and only $2m to new members.
Boise St also has a special exception I believe that allows them to have their own media deal. But this is not the norm.
For the PAC, there are rumors they may only see $20m/team this time, which could trigger more chaos.
Another way of looking at this: maybe SDSU was being "underpaid" at 4m/year in MWC, and their media market is worth far more as part of a PAC media deal. That tends to drive conference movement by teams. We'll likely find out whenever the PAC deal is announced. I suspect the departure of SDSU from MWC would negatively impact MWC's media deal somewhat in the future. The same is true for PAC with USC and UCLA departing.
Media deals and money drive everything in FBS, and particularly in the P5.
Well, this article is certainly interesting. Suggests the "June 30" deadline for SDSU to PAC is real.
The AD says they can't afford to pay the $34m exit fee. PAC knows this, so it would seem they have urgency to act.
It does mention the possibility of SDSU negotiating the exit fee if the deadline is missed.Quote:
“We can’t pay the (extra) amount,” Wicker said of missing the June 30 deadline. “Everyone is aware of that, so we’re continuing to have conversations about that.”
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ne-30-deadline
According to the above article SDSU still has some financial concerns.
Found this interesting, and looked a little further.Quote:
That means SDSU would be short $11 million-plus to balance an annual athletics budget that is approaching $70 million and, according to a database operated by the Knight Foundation, ran a $1.35 million deficit in 2022
According to the Knight data, SDSU spent 67.25m on "revenues" of 65.9m. 28.5m of those revenues came from student fees and school/gov't support. In other words, 43% of their revenue is subsidized.
Contrast this to NDSU, which shows 29.3m, of which 7.6m comes from student fees and gov't support, or 26%.
Looks to me like we may have to increase student fees, and/or get more state support for athletics to move to FBS and be successful. It seems like all the FBS G5 schools are in this position.
There are 5 teams that moved up to FBS with just a single FCS championship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_D...l_ChampionshipQuote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
Are we talking about SDSU or SDSU?
sorry bro i should have clarifiedQuote:
Originally Posted by runtheoption
my post was about SDSU
Colorado -> B12, if Coach Sanders approves
https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...eaving-pac-12/
Maybe B12 will be renamed the Prime Conference?
4 of those 5 will never amount to much in fbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
Surprised there are 14 former champions still in FCS.
Didn't know/recall that FAMU and EKU had titles.
Lol Colorado. Forever a doormat since leaving the B12 now begging to come back. Is there no level to which they wont stoop lol. Halfways kiddingQuote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Let’s get on with it already. It’s like watching a guy at the poker table take 30 seconds afraid to reveal his bluff and see his chips get taken away. Everyone knows, just move on. Come on Pac12 it’s getting embarrassing lol
Magic number for PAC is around $30-35m. By some accounts they are struggling to get there, and may be closer to $20m.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
If they don't match B12 payouts, they become vulnerable.
The struggle seems to be they could get a big online streaming deal with someone like Apple or Amazon, but they can't get the linear TV guys (ESPN/Fox/NBC) to put them on the air and payout what they want. At some point they'll have to decide if they value television airtime or money more.