Both the AAC and the MW have football only members. Never say never..
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Both the AAC and the MW have football only members. Never say never..
If there is a school I could care less about it is Montana, look no further than why their football program is a shell of what it once was. They are content with it as well, I'm happy for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by DORMIE
I would hope not. Thats lame. Montana is FCS forever. Maybe when NDSU and SDSU move up, they can compete and finally win one. Seriously, either Montana schools could raise enough money in a week. NDSU could raise it in less than a week. In the midst of a global pandemic, we raised 53 million for an IPF while funding a new outdoor track, softball indoor hitting facility and grew our athletic scholarship endowment dramaticallyQuote:
Originally Posted by MWC
The minimum requirement is 90% of the 85 over a rolling two year period.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
In other words you have to average at least 76.5
It would be a risk to go that low though with the portal taking players all the way thru spring camp often.
Most teams aim for 85 to have competitive depth, but the portal has meant quite a few dipped lower.
Yes, and it's actually worse than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
Only the "legacy" teams are receiving $7m. All the new teams are only getting $2m.
I think they hope to renegotiate down the road, but for now it's a two-tiered payout.
They dont pay to produce their own games. 1/2 of basketball and football are on ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU. The Conference Championship is on ABC. ESPN isnt going to allow a WDAY broadcast :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Now possibly the ESPN+ only games or olympic sports like Volleyball might be self produced, but I cant find anything about it
But if you have to produce your own espn+ games, you sell the media rights to WDAY or KVLY, simulcast and profit. Or produce your own and sell your own advertising. We did that for years and profited
There is truth to legacy teams earning more
ESPN standard contract with the G5 conferences requires the schools to staff and produce the ESPN+ broadcasts to ESPN standards, which specifies things like the broadcast equipment, type and placement of cameras, graphics packages, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by HerdBot
For an average AAC school this equates to about 6 football games, 20 mens basketball games, plus the majority of games for other sports. ESPN does provide staffing and produce the games shown on their networks, but it is far less than 50% of the content overall.
AAC schools do *not* own the distribution rights for ESPN+ broadcasts, and are not permitted to simulcast, show on other outlets, or insert their own advertising. ESPN has exclusive ownership as part of the media rights deals, this is what they are paying for. Occasionally with conferences like the MAC, ESPN will choose to sell/sublease a few of the ESPN+ broadcasts to another network like CBSSN. These games also typically use school production staff.
Thats ESPN+, but 50% of mbb and football games are on regular ESPN, ESPN2 or ESPNU. Conference Championship on ABC. Makes sense if you are in the 50% of football games that are on an espn network and bonus if they sublease. Better production and exposureQuote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Its weird though because the MVFC gives away the product yo ESPN+ and none of those games have any standards. Some are as bad as the Towson game last year.
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Originally Posted by NDSUstudent
could be a familiar thing with us...
NDSU should be FBS
FCS IS DEAD. sorry. truth hurts
our fanbase is done with it. 10,000 fans is all we can muster in playoffs? yea. they have spoken
FBS or BUST. make it happen NOW
AAC or MWC
give them whatever concessions they want to make this happen
Why would you offer concessions ? If either conference wants you they will invite you.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
Because hes a whore. For him its not about whats best for NDSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
I guess it's gonna be bust then.
That would bring you great joy no doubtQuote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
Oh yes of course. You know me. I'm so "FCS Forever" I made it to one game this year. However if they were MWC or AAC I would've probably made......one game this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Stating the obvious as to why NDSU isn't already FBS in football as pointed out quite matter of factly in the Athletic article (or should we call it the Atlantic) means FCS forever of course.
The solace that I found in Sunday's result is this:
When we were absolutely dominant in FCS there was more risk to those in power if we left FCS and were not as successful. As has been said a million times here. Put it on autopilot and everyone was happy.
Now that we're watching "object in the mirror is closer than they appear" SDSU blow by us, the risk for Larsen and ultimately Cook is watching the athletic department become completely surpassed by SDSU. It's already happened in basketball. Softball is losing its dominance. When SDSU wins the FCS championship next year and beats us soundly twice on the way, it won't be just Roehl or Entz that the boosters will be talking about. It'll be them. In my opinion the only way Larsen is our AD in 3 years is if we've moved up.
Ball is in their court and the clock is ticking.
Spot on. The leadership at NDSU should be scared as hell about the results from this past Sunday. For the past decade we were always able to point to our football success and tell ourselves that we were ahead of SDSU. However, behind that they had been improving their facilities and their entire athletic department overall, they have started to build the fan/booster infrastructure that is needed to take them higher and they don't have the overall budget issues that NDSU has. They might not be equal to NDSU in all aspects but they sure as hell are on the field/court and they seem to be on an upward trajectory and we have either plateaued or are declining. If NDSU isn't careful they are going to end up in a similar situation to Montana. I know there are no absolutes but I don't see a way where we stay FCS and raise our ceiling to keep us on top of SDSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
Can't disagree with any of that.
I think you guys are a little bit dramatic. Performance on the field has little to do with if we are ready for FBS. If that was the case, SDSU should have never left Division 2 because their football was traditionally horrible. We got beat on a field by a team that is essentially our partner. We should be thrilled that others in our division are improving their programs as a rising tide lifts all boats, especially when it is our partner (who has been an very good partner through the transition) is the one making the investment.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
But that's, unpossible. This is Bisonville after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMB
Who's talking about performance on the field meaning we're ready for FBS? I'm talking about our athletic department doing the same thing that Georgia Southern, Appy, JMU, etc. did when we came in and started eating their lunch. Being the AD responsible for your rival passing you in dominance is not healthy for your job security. We've lost to SDSU 4 straight times, that rising tide is starting to come over the edge of the boat, my friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMB
People have been complaining for years about how much they were paying for seats, being asked for in donations, etc. when we were winning the championship every year, making the NCAA tourney in basketball every 3 years, etc. Guess how happy they'll be to keep paying that amount and we aren't nearly as successful moving forward.
That is how an AD loses his job.
I'm not so worried about them beating us on the field once or even a couple times. I'm worried that our attendance is declining, we have an aging football stadium, we have declining enrollment and a university budget deficit, lesser passion/engagement for our basketball programs and a state government that can at times be a bit of an obstacle. They on the other hand have increasing attendance, a new football stadium, more stable enrollment/budget and basketball programs that are further ahead both in on court success and fan engagement than ours. We should absolutely be thrilled that SDSU is investing and raising their profile but it requires us to keep pace with them or they will pass us by. They have the resources that we do and we have to keep up. Is that overly dramatic? Maybe. They have closed the gap on us in the past five years though and we need to have some urgency so that they don't pass us by. We can kid as fans that they are lil' bro but in reality they are our twin brother and they have been hitting the weight room. So even though we look similar, if they keep it up we may find ourselves on the lil' bro side of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMB
They have their own budget issues. As significant, no, but there.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
NDSU has a paid for indoor Stadium that is sitting on millions in a surplus fund contemplating upgrades.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
NDSU is completing a practice facility that out classes any in the FCS that was pre financed with private funds.
NDSU is also close to establishing endowments to cover scholarship, and I've heard other ;), reoccurring costs.
NDSU has a war chest of assets to carry into the next level where as others are carrying an anchor of debt around their necks.
What university currently doesn't. Budget issues versus openly discussing cuts with the media are two very different situations. I'm not saying that everything at SDSU is perfect. They have their obstacles as well. However, I think they are on the verge of really hitting their stride as a University and an Athletic Department. I grew up in Watertown, SD and have many relatives and friends who are SDSU alums. Up until the move to D1 the alumni had very little connection with SDSU outside of maybe Hobo Days. The general vibe was one very similar to what I see with SCSU alums. Since the move to D1, I have seen many of my family and friends go from 0 to 60 in terms of them attending football, basketball and wrestling. The enrollment at SDSU is less than NDSU but their instate enrollment is higher than NDSU. They get a fair number of Minnesotans, just like NDSU does but most of them are out state Minnesota kids. They haven't tapped into the Twin Cities for enrollment like NDSU and UND have. This makes sense since they are in a relatively rural location. However, if they start to hit some of the TC suburbs and exurbs harder, I think they have a good chance of pulling a few more kids from the Twin Cities. They also have population centers like Sioux City and Omaha closer to them and they have a community in Brookings that obviously doesn't offer as much as Fargo but it is growing and is perceived as a relatively safe place for parents to send their kids. My daughter is going to NDSU currently for nursing. She toured lots of colleges in the region and for her it came down to NDSU, SDSU and Mankato. She liked the Fargo and Mankato communities better than Brookings but the SDSU campus and what the university is doing is top notch. I think they are well positioned for the future and of all 4 Dakota schools I think they are currently best positioned moving into the future. Hopefully that pushes the other 3 to keep upping their games as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
Oh its more than that SDSU has their work cut out for them on several fronts, most notably fundraising and academics. I say that as someone who respects them and wants them to jump with us (or shortly after)Quote:
Originally Posted by EC8CH
For academics (aka research), once again, chemistry is the best litmus test (pun). Here are "hits" (publications) from the American Chemical Society (total hits all time):
NDSU (2392)
Past yr 53
6 mo 22
3 mo 9
1 mo 3
1 wk 1
UND (1705)
Past yr 16
6 mo 11
3 mo 7
1 mo 3
1 wk 1
USD (772)
Past yr 9
6 mo 4
3 mo 1
1 mo 1
1 wk 1
SDSU (590)
Past yr 7
6 mo 3
3 mo 2
Lesser Dakota indeed NDSU is down, not surprising with all the cuts from Bismarck (old habits die hard eh), but clearly stands out (hence R1). UND ain't too shabby, but its interesting that the long-term NDSU/UND ratio (1.4) is much less than the near term (3.3), suggesting that UND is hurting despite the extra $$ it gets from Bismarck. This might be a case where the $$ might be better invested in NDSU
Of note, small-state G5s
Wyoming (3224)
Past yr 74
6 mo 37
3 mo 23
1 mo 11
1 wk 5
Hawaii (4125)
Past yr 129
6 mo 57
3 mo 29
1 mo 9
1 wk 2
2-flagship model splits the effort in half and begs for differentiation of the small-state XDSU/UXD model by specialty (UWyo = NDSU + UND). This should apply to D1 athletics as well to get the biggest "bang for your buck" (something I would think the Dakotas would take quite seriously)
Heres TCU and UGA. Pretty lopsided, just like the game
TCU (1202)
Past yr 9
6 mo 3
UGA (9568)
Past yr 318
6 mo 145
3 mo 83
1 mo 25
1 wk 5
Population, enrollment, and $$ are obviously more important than academics, fwiw, but good G5s (MWC/AAC) take academics very seriously
As I stated, they might not be equal to NDSU in everything but I think they are close and well positioned to keep the momentum going. NDSU on the other hand has been fighting the headwinds of apathy over the past 4-5 years and needs to find a way to change that trend or they will be looking up at SDSU consistently. That war chest you speak of might be depleted some with the looming budget cuts as they may need to tap into it to offset cuts from the general fund. The FargoDome has been contemplating upgrades since before NDSU's run started. Would be nice if they would actually use some of those dollars soon. If we don't turn the tide of the increasing apathy, I think the ability to establish those endowments to cover scholarships might be increasingly difficult. I agree with NDSU92, The AD and President have some work to do to keep NDSU above their regional peer because SDSU is coming for us. I'm glad they are, we just can't keep telling ourselves that we're better than them in any meaningful way. They are equal or better on many levels and they want to be better than us. Not just at sports but in everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by EC8CH
These are assets on the books in their Athletic Departments that other institutions are not close to matching. I agree a move should be made soon, but NDSU has built up these assets in preparation and is far better prepared.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
IMHO a football only invite to the AAC is the target. No partner required for the move.
Ironically NDSUs media deal would be an issue to ensure equal or greater coverage and revenue after the move.
SDSU is really at it's infancy in creating it's brand compared to NDSU in my opinion. Even though they were a State Land Grant, they behaved much like a Smaller State College (SCSU, Bemidji) for most of the years while I was growing up. Their perception, even within the state of South Dakota, was more similar to those schools. It wasn't until the D1 move that they realized what they could be and really started to push outside of their previous self-imposed barriers. Even now I see almost no advertising in the Twin Cities for SDSU compared to NDSU/UND. I think that as they continue to spread their wings they are going to not only improve their enrollment but their academics as well. Again, I'm not saying they are equal to NDSU in everything but we should not be underestimating the growth potential they have.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Fair points. Does the situation require a move this year? No but those assets you speak of can be diminished quite quickly if revenue declines. Or the other alternative is to preserve the assets by cutting the operating budgets for the athletic department. Neither of those are good. I would love a football only invite to the AAC. I'm also prepared for the fact that we may need to take a risk and bet on ourselves in a lesser conference to get to the AAC. I just don't think staying in the FCS will allow us to continue to position ourselves for a move to the top G5 conference. I'd equate it to some of the coaching discussions that have been had here recently. Lots of people think Tyler Roehl has the potential to be a good head coach, but staying as the OC at his alma mater might not be a path that will get him there. He may need to make a lateral move to another spot to prove himself before he would be given the opportunity to be a head coach. I think NDSU is viewed in a similar light as an athletic department.Quote:
Originally Posted by EC8CH
My main point is a build up has been happening that some may not appreciate in anticipation of a move up. I believe we are at the point it should happen soon. NDSU has done well to prepare for it and should pull the trigger soon. A football only invite to the best G5 conference possible, I'd say AAC, fits NDSUs unique situation in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
I completely agree and understand what you're saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by EC8CH
I'm saying that I think folks in the athletic department are going to feel the hot seat if we stick around in FCS for the next 2 years and SDSU outshines us moving forward.
I sure hope so. The athletic department and the university need a shot in the arm somewhat. My initial impressions of the new President are positive and I hope that we can turn the tide on enrollment and take advantage of the R1 designation and separate ourselves from the other peer universities in our region.Quote:
Originally Posted by EC8CH
Definitely a more succinct way of putting it compared to my long winded posts. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
I doubt that your fans who are used to winning everything at home are going to be more motivated by losses at home (which will certainly happen more often in an FBS conference).
If playing more competitive teams results in some losses and less boat race blowouts, so be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CyPanth
Playing uncompetitive teams like Indy State, UNI or WIU has gotten boring.
Have you ever played Madden on easy mode? Its pretty fucking boring. If they didnt have harder levels I would stop. Outside of SDSU, you can count the home losses since 2011 on 1 hand. Im more fired up than ever since we lost a Natty and barely got thereQuote:
Originally Posted by CyPanth
I get where you are coming from. The fan base wants a challenge, but a challenge the team can overcome. I think we miss being the world beater underdogs. Although it will be interesting to see how the fans respond to having a team that will never, ever win a title again and never gets to be "the best".Quote:
Originally Posted by HerdBot
Yet somehow 90+ teams at every single level of football seem to do it just fine, and the vast majority would never be okay with their team moving down a division to be more competitive. NDSU fans need to come to the realization that competing for challenging, yet consistently winnable national championships every year is not coming back until the G5 grows up and gets its own playoff system.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMB
Whether we A) stay FCS and it's the MonDak bowl in the semi's/championship every year, or B) jump to a legit G5 conference and it's playing for a conference championship every 2-3ish years, and maybe a spot in the CFP every 10ish years -- we're never going to have a four game playoff where we play peer institutions every year for a championship.
It's the end of an era, but folks are gonna have to suck it up. Go to the football games for the entertainment, support the school/kids, tailgate and build relationships with other fans, and of course when they come enjoy the big games. Whether that's FCS or FBS.
The G5 playoff would seem to have zero traction at this point. In the CFP at least one G5 school gets in..There is a possibility you could get more than one. A G5 playoff would be meaningless.
If the big boys break off and form their own thing, it might be a consideration. I, personally, do not see the breakaway happening.
As for the next point you made..Being in G5 is fun despite not being in the national title hunt. Though I am not a big football fan, it is still fun to go to games and see your old friends. You get to know some of the folks who come into town too. There tends to be pretty consistent parity in G5 and particularly the MW.
It is still college football..It is still entertaining.
The basketball will be better than the Summit.