Shh just be patient you’re burning out the troll with your inspirationQuote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
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Shh just be patient you’re burning out the troll with your inspirationQuote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
Yep. It’s everyone else’s fault that NDSU is in the current situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Still haven't seen what magical wand you would have waved that would change anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
Can't be FBS without an invite unless you want to suck like UMass/UConn.
https://www.inforum.com/sports/bison...-comes-calling
As an independent, do you really think we would be like UMass and UConn (who have never had a football following and have never been successful)? I tend to think we would be more interesting than those. I'm not saying we're Notre Dame, but I believe we would be a BYU-caliber independent team. Or an Army-caliber team. Both of those teams could win on any given day against just about anybody else, and have had many winning seasons as independents.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
There's multiple challenges with the Indy route:Quote:
Originally Posted by Professorbum
- No automatic path to a CFP bid, and highly likely to be passed over. The P5 conferences control the committee and will get the at large bids.
There's a reason everyone but Notre Dame is trying to get a conference invite - and even they are aligned with the ACC.
Without a shot at the CFP, incredibly hard to recruit and compete.
- Media money would be whatever we can negotiate on our own. We aren't Notre Dame or BYU yet to demand that level of money.
- Scheduling is INCREDIBLY tough. P5's aren't coming to town unless we throw millions at them. A lot of G5's may not be eager to play us either.
Liberty spent a boatload of money to put a schedule together, it's part of the reason they wanted a conference.
There's a reason most Indy teams struggle or fail ... the money needed is crazy. Even UMass and UConn don't spend nearly enough to succeed.
UMass went to the FCS title game 3 times with 1 championship. When we played Towson there I saw almost if not more UMass than Towson gear worn by their fans. I don't think you can say they don't have a following. Definitely a top tier FCS program but failed at FBS for a variety of reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Professorbum
UConn is a basketball school with a FB program. Not really comparable to NDSU. Even then, they apparently spend around $16M annually on FB, which we aren't even remotely close to matching. Funding isn't their problem.
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireSt...s-42m-68331095
NDSU independence is death. BYU and Army are so different than us there's no comparison.
When you say independence is death, I assume you mean death in just football. Because the other sports are safely housed in the Summit bus league. So there's no risk to any sport except football--which, I would argue, is at great risk staying in FCS.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
Btw, UMass won the I-AA title in 1998. But their overall record in football is about .480. NDSU's all time record is north of .665. So, one of those is a winning program and one of those is a losing program.
Also, my initial post was to counter the claim that NDSU would suck like UConn and UMass if we went independent. There may be arguments against independence in football, but I don't think one of them is that suddenly we would have no winning culture, our facilities and fanbase would count for nothing, and we would magically become a shitty football program.
Not to mention you need a war chest of money because you will need to pay up to get people to come to Fargo AND you will be on the road a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
https://www.underdogdynasty.com/2022...llege-football
A good read on UMass situation.
Media deals, inclusion in Bowls, CFP, and scheduling are all major issues for Independent status.
There is no guarantee we could gain access to the CFP under any conditions - its a contractual agreement between the conferences.
All the FBS conferences + Notre Dame get representation, nobody else does.
UMass has struggled to even get a bowl association with any of the 40+ bowls.
war chest? as an Indy you can play 4-5 Power 5 teams , hell even have a neutral site game at a big stadium.
play 1 game as us bank and make a ton of money
football only independent
MVC for the rest.... F the summit if we go FBS
Reality is life as an Independent is not glamorous or easy unless your name is Notre Dame and you have a scheduling alliance with the ACC.
Going forward, there are really only 3 true independents left: Army, UMass, UConn.
At least 2 of those 3 desperately want to join a conference.
Here is what Army experienced recently
https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...ble-9-2-season
Independence is not the best choice. But remaining in FCS is the worst choice, and it is not a close call.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
that YSU game was a perfect example. 1500 empty seats, people.actually would rather drink at a bar or go rake leaves after tailgateQuote:
Originally Posted by Professorbum
after halftime what 7500 fans there?
After halftime there were about 15000 fans there. Why do you feel the need to say such absurd things?Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
everyone left. plus it was 1 of the worst environments i've been at for a ndsu game in 15 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
Seems like semantics, especially when you stated "We're talking something of the order of $5M increase on Day 1". You're literally saying it would be up by $5M but $2M of that seems to still be missing from the equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
You were the one who stated that increased conference revenue would cover all of it (no additional fundraising needed) but have changed that to say the majority would com from that. I guess that is true since your math agrees its more than 50% but it still appears to be less than 60% leaving a fairly sizable increase that is required.
Idk man, figure it out. Conference distributions and private fundraising are not the only two revenue sources for an athletic department.Quote:
Originally Posted by abc123
Like I said, I have my opinion and you have your opinion and there are various factors behind each that probably aren't going to allow us to agree on this. I will say I'd be more than glad to be proven wrong if it means NDSU is in the Mountain West in 3 years and maybe then we'll have our answer.
I don't think anyone said it was, but those are the only 2 that you've mentioned when discussing the increase in costs. Again, you specifically stated all $5M was going to come from an increase in conference revenue and that no additional fundraising is needed. The math shows the former isn't true and while you apparently know better than the outgoing President, he doesn't think the latter has a ton of room for a significant increase.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
The question I asked from the start was since those aren't the only 2 ways to generate income, where is the remaining $2M+ that needs to be generated annually going to come from? That was a big part of DB's comments and no one seems to actually be able to acknowledge that beyond "it will work itself out". Maybe its as easy as the athletic department putting together a competent presentation and getting the student body to support the move? There's plenty of possible options but nothing that would actually just work itself out.
Yeah NDSU isn't Notre Dame or BYU but it also isn't UConn or UMass either.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Going Indy and doing it right would require a ridiculous amount of money that we don't have. It would also require an alumni base similar to BYU that lives and dies with the program and doesn't really care about conference affiliation. IMO very hard to do outside of the private schools.
That being said, I don't know if staying FCS is any better. Either we continue winning and the fan base continues to wane, or we start losing and the fan base...grows? Idk
How many fans would be in the Fargodome to watch some bottom-feeder G5 team willing to travel to Fargo for one of the three home games we might be lucky to get as an independent?Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
$2M equates to the delta that 2 road P5 games could pay out above what we make from bringing in a butler or nc a&tQuote:
Originally Posted by abc123
$2M equates to approximately $5.50 per credit in student fees
Take your pick or split it down the middle. We haven't even started talking about ticket sales or merchandise yet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
Exactly the problem. Imagine we only get something like Bowling Green, FIU and UTEP for home games.
Combine that with absolutely no shot at the CFP bid, and a very long shot at any type of a Bowl game.
I think the program would go downhill far faster than many here think possible with those conditions.
We would be like UConn and UMass desperately seeking a conference home.
Why not get things right to start with, and land in a good spot?
NCAA DI Manual, Figure 20-1 (FBS scheduling requirements):Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
At least 60% of all games must be played against FBS members and at least five home games against members of FBS
That's another reason why indy-status is hard: scheduling. Conference affiliation solves that problem.
we get 19000 for fucking drake/Valeo. cmon man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
NDSU vs Tulsa in Fargodome is a sellout
NDSU vs Toledo sellout
NDSU vs Jmu Sellout
whos #1 in defense right now in FBS?
JMU..... that could be us
Probably should decide which side of the coin you want to argue.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
You constantly say "pud" opponents are killing attendance, yet now you argue we show up big for pud opponents.
Either playing pud opponents matters or it doesn't.
JMU never agreed to a game outside of the playoffs, why would that change for FBS?
NDSU vs MSU - sellout
NDSU vs SDSU - faster sellout
I'm all for joining a fbs conference that has good rivals and makes sense.
NDSU to AAC? This should be a bigger focal point of NDSU'S pitch to conferences ASAP. we can HELP you on the field even if we are a financial outlier.. (and NDSU can make concessions to help with that)
message board fodder.
"* IF the AAC was shrewder than it is, NDSU already would have been invited.
Over the past decade, North Dakota State would have made any of the G5 conferences - and some, if not all of the P5 conferences - better than they were & it'll be important for future CFP prospects!"
We aren't getting into the premier G5 conference lolQuote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
And again, football isn't the only thing factoring into a conference invitation.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
The AAC, a conference where the closest member to Fargo is Wichita State, and that spans from there to San Antonio, to Miami, to Philly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...tic_Conference
That makes the Mountain West seem proximal.
I'd love to see us join the AAC, but there are several things working against it:Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
1) they value Basketball highly. Very unlikely for them to extend a football only invite.
2) they are still somewhat of a South East regional conference. They explored expanding towards the west, but they wouldn't do that for one team.
3) they are at 14 members going forward and have no need to expand right now.
4) new members only receive around $2m per year, legacy members get $7m.
Our best chance at the AAC would be if they got poached by a P5 again.
In that scenario, they likely look to backfill with regional SBC or CUSA teams.
MTSU is hoping they get that invite. WKU would be interested also.
MWC getting poached by PAC is our best path. And it looks very possible that happens.
Tulsa and Toledo offer nothing more than what NDSU currently brings in. Crowds will be the same, tailgating the same. Nobody getting up and screaming for 4 quarters or no big ticket demand like you believe. JMU would, but it would be a fraction of the excitement/intensity of the playoff games with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
Both of those schools are fine. The main thing is, across the board, the G5 differences are better than FCS. You might say "oh no one cares about Toledo. " 20 years ago, no one in ND could have told you anything about Northern Iowa, Western Illinois, or Youngstown State.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
The playoffs are about to get rather stale. Nearly every serious football program east of the Mississippi River has moved up.
NDSU has had some great playoff games. Basically every single one of those teams has moved on. If the playoffs are exciting at this point, it means we are either playing South Dakota State or NDSU has taken a sizeable step back.
As opposed to Indiana State and Western Illinois? And I hate to break it to you, but those JMU playoff games ain't coming back...Quote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
Let's play a game, pick your least favorite schedule:
vs Drake
vs NC A&T
at Arizona
vs Youngstown State
at Indiana State
vs South Dakota State
vs Illinois State
at Western Illinois
at Southern Illinois
vs North Dakota
at Oregon State
at New Mexico
vs Tennessee Martin
at UTEP
vs San Diego State
vs Fresno State
at Air Force
vs Colorado State
vs Brigham Young
at Nevada
at Wyoming
vs Utah State
vs Long Island University
vs Massachusetts
at Ohio State
at San Diego State
vs Central Michigan
at Northern Illinois
vs Kent State
at Buffalo
at Eastern Michigan
vs Ball State
vs Bowling Green
at Western Michigan
at Arkansas
vs Kennesaw State
vs Miami-Ohio
vs Indiana
at Tulsa
vs USF
at SMU
vs Navy
vs ECU
at Temple
vs Tulane
Yeah....I agree. I personally don't think the FargoDome will ever see the GSU/JMU atmosphere again. I also agree with you about Toledo or Tulsa types "being fine." That doesn't mean it would be great like some people are leading to believe around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
Or...let's play a game called reality is a bitch. Edit: home games in the last 2 schedules wouldn't bring the atmosphere you'll see on 10/15 (OK I'll give you Indiana who perpetually sucks and USF).Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
Also, no shit the JMU playoffs games are never coming back. We will never see that again in the Dome. FCS or FBS....Montana, SDSU in the semis, or UND in a playoff game. That's it. When they go FBS, it'll be alright but not the JMU level.
Tell me NDSU's record against those four schedules (NDSU's, Boise's, Toledo's, Cincy's).Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
I'll start, you'll be 10-1 (Bunnies) against your schedule.
You’re the one bringing up the JMU playoff games. They’re gone, no use crying about it anymore. There is exactly two people who I consider to be NDSU fans that *might* pick our FCS schedule over any of those three others.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
If we’re being honest, BYU, San Diego State, Indiana, Navy and Fresno State are all bigger draws for me than playing a team that goes 8-3 every year but has 4-5 trick plays and a bunch of wrinkles for us when we play in the regular season. And then gets trampled when it actually matters. Hell this year Tulane does more for me than South Dakota State.
I don’t understand your reality is a bitch statement. You always say our FCS schedule would draw better than an FBS one (without your precious little South Dakota state). It’s just not true… the three other conference schedules I took were from the best team in the conference. Which means that these schedules are conservative. There’s still the best team in the conference as another opponent (Boise, Toledo, Cincy)
And even if SDSU was the biggest possible draw for us. It doesn’t help the rest of the schedule that is bad, old and stale. That Arizona game a few weeks back was the best thing for our fan base in a long time. That is the future, not slapfighting with teachers colleges.
Go look at Sagarin… his algorithm predicts better than anyone on this site. You’re going to quickly get into “give us 22 more scholarships and $X million more dollars” territory thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
We already lost to Arizona so if you’re implying we lose to the bunnies we’d be 9-2
In my mind you didn't lose to 'zona, your OC forgot what was working and quit on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
Reality is a bitch because you can't just make up a F'ing schedule. Those schedules are made up and based on conference affiliation and FBS scheduling, which, obviously NDSU doesn't have.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
I'm not saying the FCS schedule is going to outdraw the FBS one. All I'm saying is...depending on which conference NDSU ends up in....for a big portion of the NDSU fan base it doesn't matter. Read the game thread from YSU and talking about the white hairs sitting on their asses not cheering. Ya think that's gonna change when Toledo comes rolling in? Cmon. Those fans aren't going anywhere.
And BTW...EL CHAPO was the one that brought up JMU, along with Toledo and Tulane...neither of which will get me to Fargo for a game anymore than whatever "teacher school" is on the docket. If schools like that get your dander up so be it.