2025 Sagarin Says

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Originally Posted by heffray

…and this is called “A strawman.” It’s when you mischaracterize your opponent’s argument and then tear down THAT argument instead of the actual argument we are making.

Since you clearly need help, here are the points:
1. NDSU doesn’t need any other FCS school to move with them to FBS, we can go alone and we should if the opportunity presents itself.
2. Moving with a peer institution would be beneficial and easier for NDSU (much like when SDSU partners with us to move to D1)…
3. Either of the Montana schools would be good partners to move because they are peer institutions, they care about football and frequently field good D1 level programs, and they have good fan and financial support

Address these points or shut the fuck up.

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1) no shit that's been my point the entire time.
2) Montana is not a peer institution. It has 1300 incoming freshman. It is absolutely not an FBS institution. Missoula is a vastly smaller and impoverished community compared to the Fargo metro, the Red River Valley or North Dakota as a whole.
18>2
3) any conference NDSU goes to, they dilute the pot. 2024 MSU was the only team that either university has produced the approached the level that NDSU and SDSU have been both been meeting or exceeding for a decade straight.

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Originally Posted by reformedUNDfan

1) no shit that's been my point the entire time.
2) Montana is not a peer institution. It has 1300 incoming freshman. It is absolutely not an FBS institution. Missoula is a vastly smaller and impoverished community compared to the Fargo metro, the Red River Valley or North Dakota as a whole.
18>2
3) any conference NDSU goes to, they dilute the pot. 2024 MSU was the only team that either university has produced the approached the level that NDSU and SDSU have been both been meeting or exceeding for a decade straight.

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1. No, your point has been “I hate Montana.”
2. Here’s a list of Peer institutions according to NDSU: https://www.ndsu.edu/oira/resourcesr...r_institutions
Montana State is listed, along with SDSU and UND… University of Montana is not listed, but are you gonna sit there and tell me you’d rather go to SDSU or UND than—oh… nevermind…
Did you just try to compare Missoula to “North Dakota as a whole”? And lol at “18>2”… there is no comparison with past or present FCS… the only current FCS team with more championships is YSU… are we their peer? Championships is not a metric we can use to establish who is our peer. Go take a look at the summary in Wikipedia of the Griz: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont...lies_football… they have 1 losing season in the last 37 years (not even NDSU can say that)…
3. The words you’re typing here don’t make sense. NDSU “dilutes the pot”…? Montana has beat NDSU twice in this decade… what are you taking about.

Again, your weird hatred for the Griz is tainting what little logical skills you have. Give it up. You’re wrong.

The griz ain't moving up any tine soon - if ever - so its a moot point anyways, fwiw
Grizzly bears are cool though, apex predators and all, and Missoula is a fun town, if you have a girl and like to spend time in the mountains

Peace out guys
See you Saturday ...

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Originally Posted by reformedUNDfan

You guys want to anchor yourselves to Montana go right ahead. Just don't pretend that's some great honor, because it isn't. Its pathetic.

Literally the best thing any of you have to say about Montana is that people show up to their games. I know the bar is low but jfc.

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I wouldn't look at it as an anchor, but there's a good argument that they may be a bridge to the MWC that might make adding NDSU & SDSU more palatable. If MAC became an option then they'd not be a good fit.

Most of us are looking at reality and realize that we're probably going to need some help along the way from other schools if we want to truly move up. It isn't about a love fest with the Montana schools (or even the rest of the Dakota schools for that matter) it is looking at strategically what makes the most sense.

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Originally Posted by tjamz

I wouldn't look at it as an anchor, but there's a good argument that they may be a bridge to the MWC that might make adding NDSU & SDSU more palatable. If MAC became an option then they'd not be a good fit.

Most of us are looking at reality and realize that we're probably going to need some help along the way from other schools if we want to truly move up. It isn't about a love fest with the Montana schools (or even the rest of the Dakota schools for that matter) it is looking at strategically what makes the most sense.

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Well said. I'd encourage any negative Montana fans to read Kolpack's article on Chapman this week (also in his book if memory serves). Gateway football (now MVFC) only wanted SDSU because they were easier to beat with less facilities. They asked them if they would go withot NDSU, SDSU said no. That was one of the best things SDSU ever did for themselves as I doubt they leap the way they did without competing with NDSU the entire time. NDSU needs like minded friends who are geopgraphically important, thus any move to a western conference makes the Montana's a no brainer partner just like SDSU was years ago.

I'd be fine with NIU in that roll. Already there, and the griz have shown no interest whatsoever in moving up, nor has their name ever come up in any kind of serious way in realignment discussions, at least in modern times ...

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

I'd be fine with NIU in that roll. Already there, and the griz have shown no interest whatsoever in moving up, nor has their name ever come up in any kind of serious way in realignment discussions, at least in modern times ...

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If you mean northern iowa, your basis is rooted in the past. There was a time when they may have been poised to go low level fbs, since then they decided to be all in on mbb, which is fine, but they will never be even a non-champion fcs power again, without a complete pverhaul of their AD. Northern iowa FOOTBALL is funded like dogshit and has terrible support. They are not a partner for ndsu in an fbs move without a billionaire alumni (lol?) emptying his pockets for them.

UNI is a peer of murray state in every way, and a peer of NDSU in no ways.

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Originally Posted by Twentysix

If you mean northern iowa, your basis is rooted in the past. There was a time when they may have been poised to go low level fbs, since then they decided to be all in on mbb, which is fine, but they will never be even a non-champion fcs power again, without a complete pverhaul of their AD. Northern iowa FOOTBALL is funded like dogshit and has terrible support. They are not a partner for ndsu in an fbs move without a billionaire alumni (lol?) emptying his pockets for them.

UNI is a peer of murray state in every way, and a peer of NDSU in no ways.

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Northern Illinois, obviously

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Northern Illinois, obviously

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Oh, ok. Ya nvm.

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Originally Posted by reformedUNDfan

1) no shit that's been my point the entire time.
2) Montana is not a peer institution. It has 1300 incoming freshman. It is absolutely not an FBS institution. Missoula is a vastly smaller and impoverished community compared to the Fargo metro, the Red River Valley or North Dakota as a whole.
18>2
3) any conference NDSU goes to, they dilute the pot. 2024 MSU was the only team that either university has produced the approached the level that NDSU and SDSU have been both been meeting or exceeding for a decade straight.

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Two weeks ago Montana beat UND in Missoula in front of 26,000+ fans! Missoula and the surrounding area small and impoverished? That’s just ignorant!