A new and better FBS thread

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

You are only adding approx 40.00 to youre season tickets. Or 6.66666666 a game. Still cheap as high profile tickets go for. It would add what 3/4 of a million in revenue. Still a very long way to what is needed.

And yes there were many many seats empty through the whole dome.

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You are talking about the 30% increase right? I agree thats not gonna hit many too hard...but I was referring mostly to the following statement, that I quoted from El Chapo, that we could get even "more than 30% when grandpa's sitting in row 3 40 yard line pay $200 for 6 game tickets into $1200 for 6 games".

But, I am not so sure these figures even make sense...i.e. how many people are paying this amount for those kind of seats. Anyway, that is a 600% increase for an example like that...

About the "old farts" comment: You know what NDSU will not want to do when I am even older and/or perhaps on the verge of shuffling of my mortal coil so that my will gets read? Piss me off, that's what. :)

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Originally Posted by tony

You know what NDSU will not want to do when I am even older and/or perhaps on the verge of shuffling of my mortal coil so that my will gets executed? Piss me off, that's what. :)

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Exactly...

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Originally Posted by Bisonville GasMan

You are talking about the 30% increase right? I agree thats not gonna hit many too hard...but I was referring to the following statement, that I quoted from El Chapo, that we could get even "more than 30% when grandpa's sitting in row 3 40 yard line pay $200 for 6 game tickets into $1200 for 6 games".

But, I am not so sure these figures even make sense...i.e. how many people are paying this amount for those kind of seats. Anyway, that is a 600% increase for an example like that...

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Those figure of his like most of the figures he throws out are just abject lies, invalid, nonsensical etc etc etc. Nobody is paying that for those types of seats.

Remember---he isnt a TM. He got kicked out. He has an axe to grind. Nothing they do will ever be right. Ever.

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Originally Posted by tony

You know what NDSU will not want to do when I am even older and/or perhaps on the verge of shuffling of my mortal coil so that my will gets executed? Piss me off, that's what. :)

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We have a winner!!!
I think the people with all the big ideas should to pony up. But be careful what you wish for.
Wanna raise ticket prices? You might price yourself out of the building.
In my experience 'high rollers' don't draw attention to themselves.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Those figure of his like most of the figures he throws out are just abject lies, invalid, nonsensical etc etc etc. Nobody is paying that for those types of seats.

Remember---he isnt a TM. He got kicked out. He has an axe to grind. Nothing they do will ever be right. Ever.

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Last year 90% of those tickets were sold for less than the advertised price, not 1/6 of the advertised price, but they're discounted perhaps as much as 50%.

Not from what I was told.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Not from what I was told.

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Well the $2.87 million of membership dues they reported on their last publicly available 990 in 2012 isn't anywhere close to the $6.3 million they'd collect if everyone were paying full freight for their seats, and a reliable source on this board indicated that for 2013 only 88 of the 1,150 seats in those sections were actually paying the scholarship level amount.

http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990...201212_990.pdf

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Originally Posted by bisonaudit

Well the $2.87 million of membership dues they reported on their last publicly available 990 in 2012 isn't anywhere close to the $6.3 million they'd collect if everyone were paying full freight for their seats, and a reliable source on this board indicated that for 2013 only 88 of the 1,000+ seats in those sections were actually paying the scholarship level amount.

http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990...201212_990.pdf

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There are also I think in kind trades like coaches cars , merchandise, etc etc are in play here as well. But even with that it doesnt make up the difference. I will have to re-verify my information.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

There are also I think in kind trades like coaches cars , merchandise, etc etc are in play here as well. But even with that it doesnt make up the difference. I will have to re-verify my information.

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Unless it's changed radically in the very recent past, you're correct, that's not making up the difference. They reported non-cash revenue of less than $33,000 in 2012.

I like the idea of the fee per ticket in the endzone. There are some who have many ( and I mean many) tickets. They buy for a group. I'm sure the guy spreads the dues but if they join at 100.00 and that's it, you gain little. A fee per ticket helps.
If a person in the group wants their seats they cannot transfer to him. I say do it if both parties agree and IF they join TeamMakers. Now you've split like an amoeba and have doubled the TM

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Originally Posted by bisonaudit

Well the $2.87 million of membership dues they reported on their last publicly available 990 in 2012 isn't anywhere close to the $6.3 million they'd collect if everyone were paying full freight for their seats, and a reliable source on this board indicated that for 2013 only 88 of the 1,000+ seats in those sections were actually paying the scholarship level amount.

http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990...201212_990.pdf

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Well if these figures are really the case, my questions would be this: 1) How many current TM members are willing to increase their contribution by possibly 100% or more to reach that full freight amount of $6.3 million?; and 2) How many other potential donors are out there that would actually be willing to take over these memberships at full freight?

I suspect it's not as many as some think...especially not over the long haul and during the 'not as sunny' times.

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Originally Posted by Bisonville GasMan

Well if these figures are really the case, my questions would be this: 1) How many current TM members are willing to increase their contribution by possibly 100% or more to reach that full freight amount of $6.3 million?; and 2) How many other potential donors are out there that would actually be willing to take over these memberships at full freight?

I suspect it's not as many as some think...especially not over the long haul and during the 'not as sunny' times.

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Well we know there are at least some who are willing to pay but can't get tickets.

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Originally Posted by Bisonville GasMan

Well if these figures are really the case, my questions would be this: 1) How many current TM members are willing to increase their contribution by possibly 100% or more to reach that full freight amount of $6.3 million?; and 2) How many other potential donors are out there that would actually be willing to take over these memberships at full freight?

I suspect it's not as many as some think...especially not over the long haul and during the 'not as sunny' times.

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I am willing to seriously consider moving up in membership levels if the tickets were available to me. That being said, they are not. I would like to be in the Bison Club level. I would also like the seats commensurate with that level. When everything shakes out and Teammakers gets it figured out how I can be at that level and have those seats, I will be in line to discuss this move. The way it stands now, I can't even outpoint somebody into a seat that isn't even being paid full price for. I see it from every angle, so I will patiently wait until I am told it has been worked out in an equitable fashion for those involved. I have also discussed before how I would like to see it done so people in those seats are able to slip into my current seats (for example) so everyone currently in the dome is able to shift into the levels they want to pay at first. The reset button needs to be pressed at some point and current teammakers get first shot at paying full fare first. That system should start January 1st and here is how it could look:

1. All current seat holders can stay in their current seats or sections at the full commitment level required for that section. (30 day deadline with a down payment and 120 days to pay)
2. All current teammakers can move into a higher commitment level (30th-60th days with a down payment and 90 days to pay)
3. Any current teammakers who are now without a seat because they didn't want to commit to their current club level seating can be reseated in a more affordable club level (60th-90th days with a down payment and 60 days to pay)
4. Open up to the public to sell open seats. They have to be sold according to club level (90th-120th days with full payment)
5. Any open seats at any club level gets closed up through those who paid a little extra for flexible seating. If there were Bison Club seating open still, then the next lower level members would have been able to pay an extra $100 when they purchased their package for flexible seating to move up if the seats are there. If not, half the money goes towards next year's commitment. (120th-150th days with full payment. All reserved seating tied to teammakers is finished by the end of May)
6. Last go around with tickets available for public purchase with immediate payment up to first game. There wouldn't be much left and would sell out immediately.

Teammaker membership would go up. Just about every seat that could be purchased at the proper club level for the upcoming season would be maximized for the price it should be at. With the flexible seating for those at the next lower level, you always have the room to shift back and forth the proper people at the proper level without a penalty from season to season.

This really isn't difficult as almost of this would be done by computer. You let software manage ticket sales from year to year so that each seat is maximized. People that currently have seats will always have a seat, just at the level they are willing to contribute. I don't know why this isn't equitable except for those who want to keep great seats at a reduced price because of an archaic system.

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Originally Posted by td577

I am willing to seriously consider moving up in membership levels if the tickets were available to me. That being said, they are not. I would like to be in the Bison Club level. I would also like the seats commensurate with that level. When everything shakes out and Teammakers gets it figured out how I can be at that level and have those seats, I will be in line to discuss this move. The way it stands now, I can't even outpoint somebody into a seat that isn't even being paid full price for. I see it from every angle, so I will patiently wait until I am told it has been worked out in an equitable fashion for those involved. I have also discussed before how I would like to see it done so people in those seats are able to slip into my current seats (for example) so everyone currently in the dome is able to shift into the levels they want to pay at first. The reset button needs to be pressed at some point and current teammakers get first shot at paying full fare first. That system should start January 1st and here is how it could look:

1. All current seat holders can stay in their current seats or sections at the full commitment level required for that section. (30 day deadline with a down payment and 120 days to pay)
2. All current teammakers can move into a higher commitment level (30th-60th days with a down payment and 90 days to pay)
3. Any current teammakers who are now without a seat because they didn't want to commit to their current club level seating can be reseated in a more affordable club level (60th-90th days with a down payment and 60 days to pay)
4. Open up to the public to sell open seats. They have to be sold according to club level (90th-120th days with full payment)
5. Any open seats at any club level gets closed up through those who paid a little extra for flexible seating. If there were Bison Club seating open still, then the next lower level members would have been able to pay an extra $100 when they purchased their package for flexible seating to move up if the seats are there. If not, half the money goes towards next year's commitment. (120th-150th days with full payment. All reserved seating tied to teammakers is finished by the end of May)
6. Last go around with tickets available for public purchase with immediate payment up to first game. There wouldn't be much left and would sell out immediately.

Teammaker membership would go up. Just about every seat that could be purchased at the proper club level for the upcoming season would be maximized for the price it should be at. With the flexible seating for those at the next lower level, you always have the room to shift back and forth the proper people at the proper level without a penalty from season to season.

This really isn't difficult as almost of this would be done by computer. You let software manage ticket sales from year to year so that each seat is maximized. People that currently have seats will always have a seat, just at the level they are willing to contribute. I don't know why this isn't equitable except for those who want to keep great seats at a reduced price because of an archaic system.

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I'm in the same boat. I love my seats, but I'd be willing to pay more to move and get my 4 seats together. I'd probably buy more if it were possible. This seems like a logical enough plan and I don't think anyone should have a problem with it. Either pay what your seat is worth or move down or I'm sorry to say, don't get season tickets any more. It's time to stop worrying about hurting people's feelings and time to be logical. There's a lot of money being left out there.

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Originally Posted by td577

I am willing to seriously consider moving up in membership levels if the tickets were available to me. That being said, they are not. I would like to be in the Bison Club level. I would also like the seats commensurate with that level. When everything shakes out and Teammakers gets it figured out how I can be at that level and have those seats, I will be in line to discuss this move. The way it stands now, I can't even outpoint somebody into a seat that isn't even being paid full price for. I see it from every angle, so I will patiently wait until I am told it has been worked out in an equitable fashion for those involved. I have also discussed before how I would like to see it done so people in those seats are able to slip into my current seats (for example) so everyone currently in the dome is able to shift into the levels they want to pay at first. The reset button needs to be pressed at some point and current teammakers get first shot at paying full fare first. That system should start January 1st and here is how it could look:

1. All current seat holders can stay in their current seats or sections at the full commitment level required for that section. (30 day deadline with a down payment and 120 days to pay)
2. All current teammakers can move into a higher commitment level (30th-60th days with a down payment and 90 days to pay)
3. Any current teammakers who are now without a seat because they didn't want to commit to their current club level seating can be reseated in a more affordable club level (60th-90th days with a down payment and 60 days to pay)
4. Open up to the public to sell open seats. They have to be sold according to club level (90th-120th days with full payment)
5. Any open seats at any club level gets closed up through those who paid a little extra for flexible seating. If there were Bison Club seating open still, then the next lower level members would have been able to pay an extra $100 when they purchased their package for flexible seating to move up if the seats are there. If not, half the money goes towards next year's commitment. (120th-150th days with full payment. All reserved seating tied to teammakers is finished by the end of May)
6. Last go around with tickets available for public purchase with immediate payment up to first game. There wouldn't be much left and would sell out immediately.

Teammaker membership would go up. Just about every seat that could be purchased at the proper club level for the upcoming season would be maximized for the price it should be at. With the flexible seating for those at the next lower level, you always have the room to shift back and forth the proper people at the proper level without a penalty from season to season.

This really isn't difficult as almost of this would be done by computer. You let software manage ticket sales from year to year so that each seat is maximized. People that currently have seats will always have a seat, just at the level they are willing to contribute. I don't know why this isn't equitable except for those who want to keep great seats at a reduced price because of an archaic system.

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So with #4 when you say --"Open up to the public to sell open seats. They have to be sold according to club level" -- you are essentially saying that these are new TM paying full pricing according to seat location, that are still available after current TM members are shuffled to their newer locations, right?

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Originally Posted by Bisonville GasMan

Well if these figures are really the case, my questions would be this: 1) How many current TM members are willing to increase their contribution by possibly 100% or more to reach that full freight amount of $6.3 million?; and 2) How many other potential donors are out there that would actually be willing to take over these memberships at full freight?

I suspect it's not as many as some think...especially not over the long haul and during the 'not as sunny' times.

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We're not talking about 100% increases for many in the scholarship sections. It might be 400% or more. AND, that's likely to be for 90% of the people in those sections based on what Audit posted. I'm paying 100% of what my seats cost but it amazes me how much more expensive it gets to move over only one section. No way do you fill those seats with people paying the full price though. There is simply not $3.4 Million waiting out there to be spent on tickets every year over and above what people are paying now. Full price rows A-T at mid-field is about $500 per seat per game.

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Originally Posted by NorthernBison

We're not talking about 100% increases for many in the scholarship sections. It might be 400% or more. AND, that's likely to be for 90% of the people in those sections based on what Audit posted. I'm paying 100% of what my seats cost but it amazes me how much more expensive it gets to move over only one section. No way do you fill those seats with people paying the full price though. There is simply not $3.4 Million waiting out there to be spent on tickets every year over and above what people are paying now. Full price rows A-T at mid-field is about $500 per seat per game.

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The 90% number was for the 40 yd line seats only, and that was the 'poorest performing' price point. 40% of the 50 yd line seats were actually fully paid for and the 30yd line seats were in between. All together it worked out to 75% of the scholarship level seats weren't paying the advertised price.

This is a complete SWAG. Membership fees were $2.9 million 2 years ago. Let's guess 10% annual growth which gets you estimated 2014 membership fees of $3.51 million. At the scholarship level we know for 2013 how many seats paid full price, we can assume that almost no one didn't renew and we know the 2014 prices. At those rates teammakers pulls in $1.19 million. Subtract from $3.51 = $2.32. Based on 2014 prices and seat counts teammakers gets another $1.44 million from the seats in the non-scholarship sections. Subtract from $2.32 = $880,000. That's coming from the 1,934 seats in the scholarship sections that aren't paying the advertised price. That comes out to an average of $454 a seat when at advertised price you'd expect the number to be $1,905. ~320% increase to get to advertised price.

The weakest point here is what teammakers membership collections are actually doing. If they've been more aggressive the last few years than I've assumed above, then the actual number if going to be bigger the $3.51 million and the difference would be coming from the closing of the gap between actual an advertised prices for those scholarship level seats. If they've grown membership dollars 20% a year since 2012 then they're getting almost $800 a seat now, not $450 and the addition increase to get to advertised price is only ~140%.

I'm not really too excited about the issue either way but there are also people paying more than their section's minimum for seats.

It'd be interesting to have this explained by TM. Anybody who feels strongly could email TM and ask them to address their concerns - warning them that the answer will be posted on bisonville.com.

For all I know, NDSU might have two minimums:

1. Minimum TM donation to keep your seats in your current section
2. Minimum TM donation for getting new seats in a given TM section

And they might be ramping up #1 to match #2 slowly. Going FBS really has nothing to do with this.

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Originally Posted by Bisonville GasMan

So with #4 when you say --"Open up to the public to sell open seats. They have to be sold according to club level" -- you are essentially saying that these are new TM paying full pricing according to seat location, that are still available after current TM members are shuffled to their newer locations, right?

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Some place in here it gets just a little tricky.
-All the seats in the dome, minus student section and visitor section, would have to become TM seats.
-After the TM reshuffle, the hope is that those in the seats the are already in just simply pay the proper club level pricing for those seats. No more grandfather clause and no more building up plan.
-There should be some Circle of Champions Club (full scholarship) [who wants to be part of the COC level?], Thundering Herd Club Level (3/4 scholarship level), Bison Club (1/2 scholarship) level seats left for the general public to become members of. So they could step into Teammakers at those levels immediately.
-If there are still higher club seats open after that, you offer a $100 or whatever amount flexibility option to get moved into what is normally those clubs to lower club levels to back fill seats which if declined, 1/2 of that money goes to next year's contribution. So you wouldn't have to move. If the first couple of years seem to be a stretch to fill those higher clubs, you offer the flex option with the possibility if you pay in and you are not offered the upgrade, you get the balance and a TM match in next year's contribution.
-The actual club level seating should be evaluated to be realistic more quickly. For example, if there are only 80 COC members, then there is no need for 1000 seats set aside for COC membership seating. Right now there are 57 COC members but a couple of them might have multiple memberships within their single listing. (Craig Bohl is no longer a COC member, which shouldn't surprise anyone.) There are also currently eighty 50 yard line rows for COC members (section 1 & 18 rows A through T). That is right around 1000 seats. Let's turn some of those seats into the next lower club and so on. Not only should the seats have the proper club level sitting in them, it should be the proper club level for the demand.
-With the flexible seating option for some of the seats, it leaves a cushion each season to meet any higher demand for higher club level seating. You build in your cushion.
-The first goal, no matter what, is the first time you run the system through is that everyone who is a teammaker, will have a seat according to the club level they are comfortable with paying for in the dome. Only then do you open it up to non-teammakers to start getting into the club levels they are comfortable with.

We need to shift the focus back on to Teammakers and the club levels rather than where someone was sitting in 1996. I know there are some saying we have been here forever, why should we have to pay more now. The reality is a new COC member for one season is worth 11 seasons of someone at the lowest possible TM club level. The lowest possible club level is worth more than NO club level.

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Originally Posted by tony

I'm not really too excited about the issue either way but there are also people paying more than their section's minimum for seats.

It'd be interesting to have this explained by TM. Anybody who feels strongly could email TM and ask them to address their concerns - warning them that the answer will be posted on bisonville.com.

For all I know, NDSU might have two minimums:

1. Minimum TM donation to keep your seats in your current section
2. Minimum TM donation for getting new seats in a given TM section

And they might be ramping up #1 to match #2 slowly. Going FBS really has nothing to do with this.

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No, its thread drift. But it will be another 1/2 page before name calling begins again. That is the bright side.

I will gladly take some of the credit/blame for the drift...you're welcome.


Sent from my iPhone

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Originally Posted by Bisonville GasMan

I will gladly take some of the credit/blame for the drift...you're welcome.


Sent from my iPhone

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At least this drift is a topic worthy of discussion unlike the actual title of the thread...

I was asked back to teammakers 3 years ago and laughed at him.
its pretty transparent for anyone to see how teammakers is underachieving, sorry.
and also pretty transparent for anyone to see how theres lot of people paying $200 year for 1 ticket in 3rd row 40 yard line.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

I was asked back to teammakers 3 years ago and laughed at him.

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Congratulations?

If only all NDSU's supporters were like you...

I'm almost thinking that I should start charging for Bisonville. Starting with you.

I contribute quite a bit more than what is required for my seats. A few years ago I requested better seats (with a preference for same section--think lower) and got shut down. IOW, there is an issue here that should be addressed because I know I'm not the only one in this scenario.


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Originally Posted by CAS4127

I contribute quite a bit more than what is required for my seats. A few years ago I requested better seats (with a preference for same section--think lower) and got shut down. IOW, there is an issue here that should be addressed because I know I'm not the only one in this scenario.


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That's because fuzzy yellow (or green) jacket family is hogging the lower section. :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by 1998braves64

That's because fuzzy yellow (or green) jacket family is hogging the lower section. :biggrin:

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That's an entirely different issue that needs to be addressed--or undressed if you will!! :(


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Originally Posted by CAS4127

That's an entirely different issue that needs to be addressed--or undressed if you will!! :(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Oh God, please don't make Tranny be the one undressing!

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Originally Posted by BisonNation11

Oh God, please don't make Tranny be the one undressing!

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Play on words without a pun!! :)


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soooo FBS. I cant wait.

Vermillion has 10,179 population??? Omg.
Sacred Heart & Bryant U are ranked.

C'mon BISONATION wake up.

We don't belong here

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

I was asked back to teammakers 3 years ago and laughed at him.
its pretty transparent for anyone to see how teammakers is underachieving, sorry.
and also pretty transparent for anyone to see how theres lot of people paying $200 year for 1 ticket in 3rd row 40 yard line.

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Just for clarification. You were personally invited back to Teammakers. If so who invited you back?

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

soooo FBS. I cant wait.

Vermillion has 10,179 population??? Omg.
Sacred Heart & Bryant U are ranked.

C'mon BISONATION wake up.

We don't belong here

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Boone NC 17816
Stateboro GA 28422
Troy AL 18033
Moscow ID 23800

Kent OH 28904
Oxford OH 21371
Athens OH 23832
Mt Plesant 26016
Ypslanti MI 19435

Thats really worth moving up for...your grasping at straws.

Pullman Washington 28,000.

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Originally Posted by missingnumber7

Boone NC 17816
Stateboro GA 28422
Troy AL 18033
Moscow ID 23800

Kent OH 28904
Oxford OH 21371
Athens OH 23832
Mt Plesant 26016
Ypslanti MI 19435

Thats really worth moving up for...your grasping at straws.

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Originally Posted by missingnumber7

Boone NC 17816
Stateboro GA 28422
Troy AL 18033
Moscow ID 23800

Kent OH 28904
Oxford OH 21371
Athens OH 23832
Mt Plesant 26016
Ypslanti MI 19435

Thats really worth moving up for...your grasping at straws.

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115000 population in Fargo; 220000 metro with 15% sustained projected growth for next 40 years. And ND projected to reach 1 million people within 20 years.

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Originally Posted by Strongman

115000 population in Fargo; 220000 metro with 15% sustained projected growth for next 40 years. And ND projected to reach 1 million people within 20 years.

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If you grow 220,000 @ 15% sustained you get Fargo to a million in a decade and 40 the city would be bigger than California and Texas combined.

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Originally Posted by bisonaudit

If you grow 220,000 @ 15% sustained you get Fargo to a million in a decade and 40 the city would be bigger than California and Texas combined.

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Pretty sure that he meant 15% per decade.

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Originally Posted by bisonaudit

If you grow 220,000 @ 15% sustained you get Fargo to a million in a decade and 40 the city would be bigger than California and Texas combined.

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There you go screwing up a good wet dream with facts and numbers. Shame on you. :)

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Originally Posted by tony

Pretty sure that he meant 15% per decade.

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385,000 in 40 years. That makes more sense. Apparently I've had exactly the wrong amount of coffee this morning.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Just for clarification. You were personally invited back to Teammakers. If so who invited you back?

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I did it pl it was me