Might as well get the argument started.

[ChuckYufarley]

How many of you would welcome a move to the FBS?

Yeah, I'm a Johnny-come-lately to Bisonville, but I've been following NDSU since the late 70s, lived in Fargo quite a long time, and have never liked the big fish in a small pond mentality. I thoroughly enjoyed that game today and my hat is off to the Bison and their faithful fans once again. When it comes to winning traditions, NDSU is absolutely one of the elite programs in the country. But time has come to sit at the grown-ups table and shut up all the naysayers once and for all. The Big 10 isn't scheduling FCS teams anymore and I figure the rest of the power 5 will soon follow suit once they realize what the implications are of any of their teams losing to an FCS team. Who does that leave for the Bison to embarrass once the power 5 won't schedule them? Ball State? Idaho? UTEP? It's getting to the point where NDSU is going to have to pay them to go to Fargo for a butt whipping. For now, you have one more behemoth to knock off, but that's 4 years away. I hope they can schedule a few more before it's too late.

I'm sure there are a number of threads on this topic, but I don't like bumping when they're older than half a dozen pages gone. Sorry.

Where do you stand when it comes to moving up?

[Kevin]

I'd rather play in the FCS playoffs than some MAC bowl.

For me it's P5 or FCS and obviously P5 isn't going to happen.

[MNLonghorn10]

Always been for a move up. Let's start with a 2 for 1 with Minnesota. 2 games at tcf, 1 in Fargo

[ChuckYufarley]

I'd have to dig a little deeper into the bowl bid format, but at first glance it looks like the mid major at large opportunity for bigger games is virtually nil these days. Is that right? No more Boise over OU type games anymore?

I know a P5 invite would be a real long shot, but they do like teams with a fanatical fan base. NDSU has that in spades. Honestly, what did the Big 10 have to gain by adding Maryland and Rutgers? Do they really bring that much to the table? I can't imagine that Bison Nation wouldn't dwarf either of those schools' fan base. I say they should kick those late comers to the curb and add NDSU and....Notre Dame. I know, I know, that'll never happen, but as far as raising the overall profile of the conference, it would raise the Big 10's status to the point they'd be neck and neck with the SEC. NDSU has the tools, they just need the money. Notre Dame is really going to have to join a conference to have a shot at the playoff on a regular basis. Right now they're looking at having to go unbeaten every year to have a shot. That's a hell of a lot harder to do now than it was just 10 years ago. I don't know what their beef is with the Big 10, they certainly play enough of the teams every year. OSU and Michigan would probably raise a huge stink if they ended up in the Eastern division though. NDSU has the one intangible that most of the Big 10 wished they had and can never buy and that's tradition. If you gave them Minnesota's budget, a stadium with 40K-50k capacity, and put them in the Western division, they'd play for the Big 10 title at least once every 3-4 years. We know they can compete with the Gophers and Hawkeyes. Who does that leave in the West? Wisconsin? Squeaked out a win over a winless Georgia State, who somehow went from a new FCS program in 2010 to FBS in 3 years. Nebraska? They look to be on the rebound so far this year, but losses in consecutive years to Minnesota tells you that they're just as up and down as any other team in the West. The only winning tradition that would rival NDSU in the West is Nebraska, but they've had a hell of a lot more big game losses than wins, so I'd give the Bison the edge. In the last 5 years, NDSU would have won the West probably twice. I'm certainly not the caliber of CFB fanatic who knows the dollars and cents of how the conferences operate, but adding NDSU might be a good business move. As far as the Big 12 is concerned, they have to add 2 teams just to reflect the name of the conference, and they'd better be quality teams if they want to move out of the P5 basement. NDSU with a serious budget is a good invite. They just need to find the money. You can't tell me NDSU doesn't have a Ralph Engelstad somewhere in their alumni rolls.

[thebootfitter]

You can't tell me NDSU doesn't have a Ralph Engelstad somewhere in their alumni rolls.
You're right that it's been hashed out many times in many threads. I think if all the cards played out for a perfect hand, it would make sense. But it is really driven by money, and NDSU doesn't have a visible donor with that kind of cash. Even with a boost from P5 type TV contracts, it probably wouldn't be sustainable to cover the facilities and additional expenses that are involved with a move up.

Find a way to make the financial side work, and I think it could happen. But that's a tall order.

[BisonEngrGirl]

No. like coach Klieman said in the presser, we're happy where we're at. Look at Appy St. and Georgia Southern. Two FCS championship-winning powerhouses that are all but irrelevant now with a move to the FBS. I would rather win championships and beat FBS teams as an FCS member. I know that people make the argument for moving up if we ever got a P5 invite, BUT, think about how that would affect the player grooming system. Yes you get more scholarships and a bigger recruiting pool, but now instead of having guys for 4-5 years and being able to build them up and really enforces the culture of excellence that is Bison football, you have guys leaving for the draft after a couple of years. You get a lot more transfers and, in my mind, a lot more difficult time creating the "hearts of champions" that we have now. I do think NDSU would move up if we got a P5 invite and if we could somehow get a bigger stadium, A LOT more money, and some of the other necessities to build the base for a good FBS program. I don't see that happening in the near future though. For now I much prefer winning championships and taking down giants instead of joining the Sunbelt where FCS greats go to die.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ChuckYufarley]

You're right that it's been hashed out many times in many threads. I think if all the cards played out for a perfect hand, it would make sense. But it is really driven by money, and NDSU doesn't have a visible donor with that kind of cash. Even with a boost from P5 type TV contracts, it probably wouldn't be sustainable to cover the facilities and additional expenses that are involved with a move up.

First question: How much does Team Makers contribute to the overall athletic budget? Second question: How many Big 10 schools have charitable gaming at their disposal to raise money?

I was in Manhattan a couple months after the K State win and I couldn't believe a city as modest as that was home to an FBS team and Fargo wasn't. A stadium like theirs, in Fargo, would be perfect and according to the wikipedia on Bill Snyder Family Football Stadium, the 2016 adjusted construction cost is a fraction of the original cost to build the Fargodome. Don't give me the sad argument all the wusses in Minnesota had about needing a new dome instead of an open air stadium either. Yeah, an NFL playoff game outside in Minneapolis would be harsh, but a late November game outside in Fargo would be a cakewalk. The first 8 rings came at Dacotah Field, remember. Look at the success there's been with the different events that have been added in Fargo over the last couple decades. Rib Fest, Blues Fest, marathon, street fair, etc. There has to be a way to capitalize on all the disposable income spent in Fargo on a yearly basis for the benefit of that program. I've seem OU fans and Husker fans in their home environments during their days of Big 8 domination and the way they lived for those teams bordered on hysteria. That's what happens though when that's the only show in town (sound familiar?) and that's what it takes to build those kinds of programs. If NDSU had moved to I-AA when they built the Fargodome, like they should have, they could have had 10 years of FBS caliber fund raising under their belts now and nobody would be wondering if they could move up.

[ChuckYufarley]

No. like coach Klieman said in the presser, we're happy where we're at. Look at Appy St. and Georgia Southern. Two FCS championship-winning powerhouses that are all but irrelevant now with a move to the FBS. I would rather win championships and beat FBS teams as an FCS member. I know that people make the argument for moving up if we ever got a P5 invite, BUT, think about how that would affect the player grooming system. Yes you get more scholarships and a bigger recruiting pool, but now instead of having guys for 4-5 years and being able to build them up and really enforces the culture of excellence that is Bison football, you have guys leaving for the draft after a couple of years. You get a lot more transfers and, in my mind, a lot more difficult time creating the "hearts of champions" that we have now. I do think NDSU would move up if we got a P5 invite and if we could somehow get a bigger stadium, A LOT more money, and some of the other necessities to build the base for a good FBS program. I don't see that happening in the near future though. For now I much prefer winning championships and taking down giants instead of joining the Sunbelt where FCS greats go to die.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You read what I said about the future of P5 scheduling FCS teams, right? In 5 years College Game Day will give no consideration to Fargo when the Bison are beating teams whose conference they should be winning every year. They have Oregon in 4 years, but for now, that's it. Beating Iowa basically knocked the entire Big 10 West down to Mountain West status if the Hawkeyes do well in their division. Just imagine if somehow Iowa ends up back in the Big 10 Championship and plays Ohio State to the wire like they did with Michigan State last year. The brain trusts who pick those four playoff teams would trace the OSU strength of schedule all the way back to Iowa's loss to NDSU, and that could tip the balance as to whether or the Bucks make the cut. Now what P5 conference is going to want to risk that kind of snafu that would keep them out of the National Championship? Pretty soon, all the Bison will have to beat up on in the FBS are scrubs.

Do you remember how uninspired and unexciting things got when Rocky and Dr. Bob wouldn't even play a non-conference game away from home for more than a decade? I think the biggest win they had to hang their hats on for quite a few years was against the vaunted Maine Black Bears. Wow, huh? Big fish, small pond thinking. Watching how Carson Wentz was talked down leading up to the draft because he "never played a decent team" was excruciating. L.A. and Cleveland are both going to regret listening to that garbage for years to come. Not 5 minutes after the win yesterday and I'm listening to some Fox Sports radio know-it-all discount NDSU for their "lack of quality athletes" and I wanted to wring the guy's neck. Seriously, no matter the successes the Bison have had, no matter how many FCS titles they win or FBS teams they beat, to the rest of the country they'll always be a novelty. Considering how the public loves to knock icons off their pedestals, win 2 or 3 more FCS title in the next few years and they'll start looking for a reason to hate the Bison despite their image. As far as Appalachian State and Georgia Southern are concerned, it sure doesn't help their cause when they have to recruit in SEC country. They had really good FCS programs, no doubt, but it took GSU 15 seasons to do what NDSU has done in 5, and App State had a brief spurt of success but one three year span means nothing when it comes to tradition the way 50 years of committing to building winners like NDSU has had. Remember how many SEC transfers JSU had? I'm sure both GSU and App State benefited from a number of those during their years in I-AA. Apples and oranges.

[ChuckYufarley]

Good Lord, what do they give you to write a decent comment before you get logged off, like 3 minutes? Can I change that?

[Lord Bison]

Lol SEC isn't scared of FCS like big10

[td577]

How many of you would welcome a move to the FBS?

Yeah, I'm a Johnny-come-lately to Bisonville, but I've been following NDSU since the late 70s, lived in Fargo quite a long time, and have never liked the big fish in a small pond mentality. I thoroughly enjoyed that game today and my hat is off to the Bison and their faithful fans once again. When it comes to winning traditions, NDSU is absolutely one of the elite programs in the country. But time has come to sit at the grown-ups table and shut up all the naysayers once and for all. The Big 10 isn't scheduling FCS teams anymore and I figure the rest of the power 5 will soon follow suit once they realize what the implications are of any of their teams losing to an FCS team. Who does that leave for the Bison to embarrass once the power 5 won't schedule them? Ball State? Idaho? UTEP? It's getting to the point where NDSU is going to have to pay them to go to Fargo for a butt whipping. For now, you have one more behemoth to knock off, but that's 4 years away. I hope they can schedule a few more before it's too late.

I'm sure there are a number of threads on this topic, but I don't like bumping when they're older than half a dozen pages gone. Sorry.

Where do you stand when it comes to moving up?

I think it is great you are passionate about this but you obviously haven't learned the culture of Bisonville. It is perfectly fine to add to existing threads, no matter how old they are. Everything you are bringing up has already been hashed out 100 times. I am not saying you can't bring it up again and it isn't anyone's place to say it isn't a worthy topic as thy can chose to read or not read on their own. If you would have read through the previous threads, you would have seen the arguments and your points would have fit in nicely with existing threads.

By the way, Maryland and Rutgers weren't brought in for their football acumen. They were targeted for their TV markets. Now if you had gone through previous discussions, you would know this is pretty much the starting point.

[Biz101on]

Yesterday, Coach said it best. We have a football playoff that works and gives teams opportunities to advance. I like it here fine personally.

[oldmantutters]

I realize you are new here, and like people have responded to you. This horse has been beaten to death, then had the horse trailer backed over it, then beaten some more on this forum. I think to the point where neither side has the energy to argue their points anymore, even though it still comes up after wins like yesterday.

The head honchos at NDSU have a plan, I don't know what the plan is but I trust them.

One problem in comparing NDSU to other schools is how NDSU has grown rather rapidly. They have only recently reached 15k students, meaning the alumni base isn't as large.

On the TV side, like has been said here we don't offer the number of sets that a Rutgers or Maryland brings to the table so to decision makers that is a non starter.

TL; DR FCS>some Detroit bowl game

Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk

[DakotaOkie]

Don't give me the sad argument all the wusses in Minnesota had about needing a new dome instead of an open air stadium either. Yeah, an NFL playoff game outside in Minneapolis would be harsh, but a late November game outside in Fargo would be a cakewalk. The first 8 rings came at Dacotah Field, remember.

I was at Dacotah Field after Thanksgiving the year they beat Towson in a DII run. It was NOT a cakewalk despite being a "relatively" nice day in North Dakota. It was cold, cold, cold and yet that was not a game that gets brought up when bad Fargo weather is brought up in football lore. It is one thing to wax nostalgic about cool September afternoon ball games in an outdoor stadium but late season (and better yet, post season) games can be brutal. Even the most hardcore fans will find better things to do when it is 20-30 degrees and the team is playing at .500 that year.
I am ambivalent about the FBS type move until the big money schools pull out altogether and a new 1AA sort of system is established with what is now called the G5 (complete with real championship playoffs). The bowl game system became pure crap once it expanded beyond the traditional games between certain conferences (think Rose, Orange, Cotton, etc). Who really cares about the Autozone Bowl other than Autozone.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

How many of you would welcome a move to the FBS?

Yeah, I'm a Johnny-come-lately to Bisonville, but I've been following NDSU since the late 70s, lived in Fargo quite a long time, and have never liked the big fish in a small pond mentality. I thoroughly enjoyed that game today and my hat is off to the Bison and their faithful fans once again. When it comes to winning traditions, NDSU is absolutely one of the elite programs in the country. But time has come to sit at the grown-ups table and shut up all the naysayers once and for all. The Big 10 isn't scheduling FCS teams anymore and I figure the rest of the power 5 will soon follow suit once they realize what the implications are of any of their teams losing to an FCS team. Who does that leave for the Bison to embarrass once the power 5 won't schedule them? Ball State? Idaho? UTEP? It's getting to the point where NDSU is going to have to pay them to go to Fargo for a butt whipping. For now, you have one more behemoth to knock off, but that's 4 years away. I hope they can schedule a few more before it's too late.

I'm sure there are a number of threads on this topic, but I don't like bumping when they're older than half a dozen pages gone. Sorry.

Where do you stand when it comes to moving up?

P5 or nothing. G5 conference offers nothing but a shot at a shitty bowl game.

[56BISON73]

How many of you would welcome a move to the FBS?

Yeah, I'm a Johnny-come-lately to Bisonville, but I've been following NDSU since the late 70s, lived in Fargo quite a long time, and have never liked the big fish in a small pond mentality. I thoroughly enjoyed that game today and my hat is off to the Bison and their faithful fans once again. When it comes to winning traditions, NDSU is absolutely one of the elite programs in the country. But time has come to sit at the grown-ups table and shut up all the naysayers once and for all. The Big 10 isn't scheduling FCS teams anymore and I figure the rest of the power 5 will soon follow suit once they realize what the implications are of any of their teams losing to an FCS team. Who does that leave for the Bison to embarrass once the power 5 won't schedule them? Ball State? Idaho? UTEP? It's getting to the point where NDSU is going to have to pay them to go to Fargo for a butt whipping. For now, you have one more behemoth to knock off, but that's 4 years away. I hope they can schedule a few more before it's too late.

I'm sure there are a number of threads on this topic, but I don't like bumping when they're older than half a dozen pages gone. Sorry.

Where do you stand when it comes to moving up?

If you've been following bv for sometime you already know your answer . JFC

[wtffootballfan]

How many of you would welcome a move to the FBS?

Yeah, I'm a Johnny-come-lately to Bisonville, but I've been following NDSU since the late 70s, lived in Fargo quite a long time, and have never liked the big fish in a small pond mentality. I thoroughly enjoyed that game today and my hat is off to the Bison and their faithful fans once again. When it comes to winning traditions, NDSU is absolutely one of the elite programs in the country. But time has come to sit at the grown-ups table and shut up all the naysayers once and for all. The Big 10 isn't scheduling FCS teams anymore and I figure the rest of the power 5 will soon follow suit once they realize what the implications are of any of their teams losing to an FCS team. Who does that leave for the Bison to embarrass once the power 5 won't schedule them? Ball State? Idaho? UTEP? It's getting to the point where NDSU is going to have to pay them to go to Fargo for a butt whipping. For now, you have one more behemoth to knock off, but that's 4 years away. I hope they can schedule a few more before it's too late.

I'm sure there are a number of threads on this topic, but I don't like bumping when they're older than half a dozen pages gone. Sorry.

Where do you stand when it comes to moving up?

Nope. Whey would the extra 20 million a year for the athletic budget come from?

[No_Skill]

Nope. Whey would the extra 20 million a year for the athletic budget come from?

Oil money, of course!

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

I think it is great you are passionate about this but you obviously haven't learned the culture of Bisonville. It is perfectly fine to add to existing threads, no matter how old they are. Everything you are bringing up has already been hashed out 100 times. I am not saying you can't bring it up again and it isn't anyone's place to say it isn't a worthy topic as thy can chose to read or not read on their own. If you would have read through the previous threads, you would have seen the arguments and your points would have fit in nicely with existing threads.

By the way, Maryland and Rutgers weren't brought in for their football acumen. They were targeted for their TV markets. Now if you had gone through previous discussions, you would know this is pretty much the starting point.

I know that is the argument, but I would really like to know how that has worked out for the BIG? Pretty sure it has backfired for them. If your teams suck, nobody is going to watch even if the school is located in NYC. As far as I know, M & R haven't been lighting the world on fire in BB as well. Again, if you aren't winning, no one is watching.

[A1pigskin]

Oil money, of course!

There are so many hands in the the oil money bucket, nothing may be left.

[BisonBacker]

I'd have to dig a little deeper into the bowl bid format, but at first glance it looks like the mid major at large opportunity for bigger games is virtually nil these days. Is that right? No more Boise over OU type games anymore?

I know a P5 invite would be a real long shot, but they do like teams with a fanatical fan base. NDSU has that in spades. Honestly, what did the Big 10 have to gain by adding Maryland and Rutgers? Do they really bring that much to the table? I can't imagine that Bison Nation wouldn't dwarf either of those schools' fan base. I say they should kick those late comers to the curb and add NDSU and....Notre Dame. I know, I know, that'll never happen, but as far as raising the overall profile of the conference, it would raise the Big 10's status to the point they'd be neck and neck with the SEC. NDSU has the tools, they just need the money. Notre Dame is really going to have to join a conference to have a shot at the playoff on a regular basis. Right now they're looking at having to go unbeaten every year to have a shot. That's a hell of a lot harder to do now than it was just 10 years ago. I don't know what their beef is with the Big 10, they certainly play enough of the teams every year. OSU and Michigan would probably raise a huge stink if they ended up in the Eastern division though. NDSU has the one intangible that most of the Big 10 wished they had and can never buy and that's tradition. If you gave them Minnesota's budget, a stadium with 40K-50k capacity, and put them in the Western division, they'd play for the Big 10 title at least once every 3-4 years. We know they can compete with the Gophers and Hawkeyes. Who does that leave in the West? Wisconsin? Squeaked out a win over a winless Georgia State, who somehow went from a new FCS program in 2010 to FBS in 3 years. Nebraska? They look to be on the rebound so far this year, but losses in consecutive years to Minnesota tells you that they're just as up and down as any other team in the West. The only winning tradition that would rival NDSU in the West is Nebraska, but they've had a hell of a lot more big game losses than wins, so I'd give the Bison the edge. In the last 5 years, NDSU would have won the West probably twice. I'm certainly not the caliber of CFB fanatic who knows the dollars and cents of how the conferences operate, but adding NDSU might be a good business move. As far as the Big 12 is concerned, they have to add 2 teams just to reflect the name of the conference, and they'd better be quality teams if they want to move out of the P5 basement. NDSU with a serious budget is a good invite. They just need to find the money. You can't tell me NDSU doesn't have a Ralph Engelstad somewhere in their alumni rolls.

I'm with you on this but the problem for NDSU is farther West in North Dakota. It's called Bismarck. More specifically the capitol which is filled with a bunch of idiot politicians who happen to be lawyers who also happen to have went to a different university in North Dakota. Hell will freeze over and they will do everything in their power to prevent NDSU moving ahead of their beloved university. Even though NDSU has forged further ahead then they ever will they are still a chain around NDSU's neck!

[El_Chapo]

Listen. NDSU ADMIN needs to be soliciting like a full court press to mountain west.

It would improve all sports.

Fargodome at 20k would work at mountain west, (see Wyoming San Jose attendances)

Then NDSU needs to gather 4 major sponsors (Sanford, scheels, RDO, bobcat) to commit to $25 million over 25 years.
To build a new $150 million semi enclosed 42,000 seat stadium east to west on the current practice fields.

NDSU keeps all revenue from it.

Then after 5 years of destroying the MWC, you hopefully get an invite into the big 12

But you need to start moving NOW! (2years ago woulda been better)

[bisonaudit]

There are so many hands in the the oil money bucket, nothing may be left.

The biggest problem with the oil money bucket is that it only works if it's really big and you are really disciplined because you only get to fill it up once.

[A1pigskin]

The biggest problem with the oil money bucket is that it only works if it's really big and you are really disciplined because you only get to fill it up once.

Exactly........

[NorthernBison]

If you've been following bv for sometime you already know your answer . JFC

Bingo. The typical troll job.

Interesting how everything from the countless discussions got covered.

Maybe El Lako has a new approach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

It would definitely benefit the city of Fargo if the city would build a new outdoor stadium, they already have an indoor multipurpose arena. Just think of all the revenue to the city of Fargo on game weekend if they had a 50,000 seat stadium that was filled to capacity every other weekend in the fall. With a city sales tax to raise the revenue, I sure it wouldn't take long to get their money back. Not to mention the increased national exposure that can lead to more people moving to the city in the long term, which equals even more tax revenue.

[No_Skill]

It would definitely benefit the city of Fargo if the city would build a new outdoor stadium, they already have an indoor multipurpose arena. Just think of all the revenue to the city of Fargo on game weekend if they had a 50,000 seat stadium that was filled to capacity every other weekend in the fall. With a city sales tax to raise the revenue, I sure it wouldn't take long to get their money back. Not to mention the increased national exposure that can lead to more people moving to the city in the long term, which equals even more tax revenue.

Also, I don't think it would need to be completed before we made a move or received an invite, but we would certainly need a solid plan. The Fargodome could still serve as a stopgap for 5 years or so.

Step one is the most difficult. Receive attractive invite.

I'm still not 100% sure where I stand on this subject.

[Bison03]

Can we stop this now!! No FBS conference is going to invite NDSU. Its about money. Fargo media market is too small. Also, NDSU would have to raise its athletic budget another 20 million a year!! Not going to happen. Lets enjoy ehat er have. In the current landscape of college football, NDSU is an FCS team...and currently the best.

[BisonBacker]

Can we stop this now!! No FBS conference is going to invite NDSU. Its about money. Fargo media market is too small. Also, NDSU would have to raise its athletic budget another 20 million a year!! Not going to happen. Lets enjoy ehat er have. In the current landscape of college football, NDSU is an FCS team...and currently the best.

Sounds similar to the talk when they built the FargoDome or when NDSU decided to move to DI.m You are either moving forward or backward. The idea that you are staying status quo is a fallacy.

[bisonaudit]

Sounds similar to the talk when they built the FargoDome or when NDSU decided to move to DI.m You are either moving forward or backward. The idea that you are staying status quo is a fallacy.

Look what's happening with the G5. They're an economic disaster. The TV money is shrinking, state support is decreasing and costs continue to increase. By not moving we are actually going forward. You want no part of that mess right now.

[BisonBacker]

Look what's happening with the G5. They're an economic disaster. The TV money is shrinking, state support is decreasing and costs continue to increase. By not moving we are actually going forward. You want no part of that mess right now.
Not saying we have to move tomorrow but it needs to be on the radar and planning to replace the Dome like it or not needs to be happening as well. It was shortsighted thinking by Fargo folks who hamstrung NDSU and the Dome in the first place. When the dome was being considered the plans were for 27k seats. People said it would never be needed or filled. Now look at where we are.

Dead horse or not plans need to be considered for a larger stadium indoor or outdoor. My choice would be indoor for weather reasons not to mention the fact that fair weather fans wouldn't sit at an outdoor game in November/December.

[ChuckYufarley]

After reading the first few comments about my faux pas of starting this thread, I have to admit I felt a bit sheepish. But now that gloves are beginning to come off, I'm rather enjoying it.
In all seriousness, I do apologies for not delving into the backlog of old threads before starting a new one. I was hoping someone else would bring it back up and I got tired of waiting. I've been on forums where people get bent out of shape for bumping a thread if it's too old.
Interesting how many people claim nobody would want to sit outside for a 3 hour football game in November, when there's enough who'll sit in a deer stand twice as long to fill that stadium.

[semobison]

There are so many hands in the the oil money bucket, nothing may be left.

And prices have been down for a while now. There is a saying about oil money. Remember your last oil check...it might be! No guarantees.

[ZHerd]

After reading the first few comments about my faux pas of starting this thread, I have to admit I felt a bit sheepish. But now that gloves are beginning to come off, I'm rather enjoying it.
In all seriousness, I do apologies for not delving into the backlog of old threads before starting a new one. I was hoping someone else would bring it back up and I got tired of waiting. I've been on forums where people get bent out of shape for bumping a thread if it's too old.

If you were really new here you wouldn't enjoy the "gloves coming off." Im guessing you have posted here under multiple user names, but nice try anyways ;)

[scottietohottie]

Waiting for the big 12 invite.

[ChuckYufarley]

Er...no. Honest to God first timer. I don't care much for troll types. With the level of milestones continuing to climb, I figured now was as good a time as any to take the plunge. I'm too old to yank chains like that anyway.

[Bisonguy]

Er...no. Honest to God first timer. I don't care much for troll types. With the level of milestones continuing to climb, I figured now was as good a time as any to take the plunge. I'm too old to yank chains like that anyway.

Don't sweat it. Many on here forget when they were newbs here and asking the same things that had already been discussed to death.

There's a growing number that want a move to FBS, but it's still the minority's. Many would support a move to FBS if the administration decides that's what would be best for NDSU, and the numbers in his camp seem to be growing.

The biggest hurdles are:

Conference- MAC, MWC, Sunbelt? Who is willing to invite NDSU and will it be a good fit? Will traditional powers in the conference be opposed to inviting NDSU, much like when NDSU moved up to DI-AA?

Facilities- seating at the Fargodome could be expanded to about 20k, but ticket prices are getting close to being maxed out. A 30-40k seat stadium would be nice even if there's only two games that exceed the fargodome capacity per season.

Money- need a lot more of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[everybody knows my name]

I know that is the argument, but I would really like to know how that [adding Maryland and Rutgers] has worked out for the BIG? Pretty sure it has backfired for them. If your teams suck, nobody is going to watch even if the school is located in NYC. As far as I know, M & R haven't been lighting the world on fire in BB as well. Again, if you aren't winning, no one is watching.

With the addition of Maryland and Rutgers in July 2014, the Big Ten Conference began seriously flexing its financial strength, the conference’s new federal tax return shows.

The conference had $448.8 million in total revenue during a fiscal year ending June 30, 2015 — a figure that represents a nearly $110 million increase over what it pulled in during its 2014 fiscal year.

As a result, the conference distributed roughly $32.4 million to each of its longest-standing 11 members, amounts that put those schools on par with amounts the Southeastern Conference distributed to each of its 14 member schools from conference revenue that totaled $527.4 million.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2016/05/18/big-ten-revenue-jim-delany-pay-salary-compensation-television/84553752/

[Kujava23]

This is worthless convo-----Bison would need $75-100 million more in athletic department to make jump in ALL SPORTS----
Yes Bison can win in FBS matchups even without 22 less scholarships; FCS 63 FBS 85 but why do they need to be in FBS

THEY BELONG AS ONE OF TOP FOOTBALL PROGRAMS IN THE COUNTRY PERIOD

[NorthernBison]

Anybody who scoffs at what Maryland and Rutgers bring to the B1G is so poorly informed that they aren't worth the time to educate. They should be discussing bobsledding instead. They know just as much about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DBRJake]

Interesting how many people claim nobody would want to sit outside for a 3 hour football game in November, when there's enough who'll sit in a deer stand twice as long to fill that stadium.

Interesting analogy given that when deer opener coincides with a home game you see a lot more empty seats. If the Bison are in a middling season that effect is magnified.

[Christopher Moen]

After reading the first few comments about my faux pas of starting this thread, I have to admit I felt a bit sheepish. But now that gloves are beginning to come off, I'm rather enjoying it.
In all seriousness, I do apologies for not delving into the backlog of old threads before starting a new one. I was hoping someone else would bring it back up and I got tired of waiting. I've been on forums where people get bent out of shape for bumping a thread if it's too old.
Interesting how many people claim nobody would want to sit outside for a 3 hour football game in November, when there's enough who'll sit in a deer stand twice as long to fill that stadium.

You do realize NDSU plays a lot of games in December? Any new stadium will be an indoor stadium. The winters in Fargo are much more terrible than the ones I experienced growing up in Northern Minnesota.

[A1pigskin]

You do realize NDSU plays a lot of games in December? Any new stadium will be an indoor stadium. The winters in Fargo are much more terrible than the ones I experienced growing up in Northern Minnesota.

December can be and usually is brutal.

[td577]

You do realize NDSU plays a lot of games in December? Any new stadium will be an indoor stadium. The winters in Fargo are much more terrible than the ones I experienced growing up in Northern Minnesota.

The other side to that is if the Bison were FBS, there would be a lot less December games. Not stoking the flames, just stating a fact.

[SC_TX]

Absolutely time for FBS. NDSU has reached the FCS pinnacle. There's nothing left in FCS that can sustain growth of the program. Staying in FCS at this point is conceding that the program can never get any bigger than it is right now. Nowhere to go but down by staying in FCS.

[SC_TX]

No. like coach Klieman said in the presser, we're happy where we're at. Look at Appy St. and Georgia Southern. Two FCS championship-winning powerhouses that are all but irrelevant now with a move to the FBS. I would rather win championships and beat FBS teams as an FCS member. I know that people make the argument for moving up if we ever got a P5 invite, BUT, think about how that would affect the player grooming system. Yes you get more scholarships and a bigger recruiting pool, but now instead of having guys for 4-5 years and being able to build them up and really enforces the culture of excellence that is Bison football, you have guys leaving for the draft after a couple of years. You get a lot more transfers and, in my mind, a lot more difficult time creating the "hearts of champions" that we have now. I do think NDSU would move up if we got a P5 invite and if we could somehow get a bigger stadium, A LOT more money, and some of the other necessities to build the base for a good FBS program. I don't see that happening in the near future though. For now I much prefer winning championships and taking down giants instead of joining the Sunbelt where FCS greats go to die.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

App State got to host Miami yesterday. Yes they got killed but something like that will never ever happen for NDSU in FCS

[bisonaudit]

App State got to host Miami yesterday. Yes they got killed but something like that will never ever happen for NDSU in FCS

App St athletics get $19.5 million a year from the state govt and student fees. 65 percent of their budget. Our whole budget is $22.3 million, only 36 percent of which is subsidized.

[BisonBacker]

App St athletics get $19.5 million a year from the state govt and student fees. 65 percent of their budget. Our whole budget is $22.3 million, only 36 percent of which is subsidized.

Which proves my comment true earlier in this thread about the dolts in Bismarck!

[bisonaudit]

Which proves my comment true earlier in this thread about the dolts in Bismarck!

The next $11.5 million NDSU gets from Bismarck shouldn't go to the athletic department.

[BisonBacker]

The next $11.5 million NDSU gets from Bismarck shouldn't go to the athletic department.

Maybe not but how much further ahead or better off would NDSU be if we'd of been funded on par with und for the last 4 or 5 decades? How much further along would NDSU be overall including athletics? I know it's impossible to answer but think about it. As far as the original question the guy who pointed out Miami playing in Boone is a fair point. How large of a stadium does Boone have? Roughly 27k and thats being generous. But who cares we should be happy seeing Robert Morris and Charleston Southerns of the FCS coming to Fargo. Who would want to go to a lousy game against the likes of Miami or Nebraska in Fargo anyway!!

[DCinOK]

[QUOTE=BisonBacker;1153239]
As far as the original question the guy who pointed out Miami playing in Boone is a fair point. How large of a stadium does Boone have? Roughly 27k and thats being generous.

QUOTE]

I looked it up and App State's stadium is 23,150 capacity.

[BisonBacker]

[QUOTE=BisonBacker;1153239]
As far as the original question the guy who pointed out Miami playing in Boone is a fair point. How large of a stadium does Boone have? Roughly 27k and thats being generous.

QUOTE]

I looked it up and App State's stadium is 23,150 capacity.
Yeah but they get way more than that in there basically because the grass sloped endzone area has been used by folks. I know they have had 25k or more in there for games.

[NorthernBison]

The ND economy is going to take a while to stabilize unless something unforeseen happens. The bad news is that it will likely get much worse before it gets better. Fargo will feel the pinch too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bisonaudit]

Maybe not but how much further ahead or better off would NDSU be if we'd of been funded on par with und for the last 4 or 5 decades? How much further along would NDSU be overall including athletics? I know it's impossible to answer but think about it. As far as the original question the guy who pointed out Miami playing in Boone is a fair point. How large of a stadium does Boone have? Roughly 27k and thats being generous. But who cares we should be happy seeing Robert Morris and Charleston Southerns of the FCS coming to Fargo. Who would want to go to a lousy game against the likes of Miami or Nebraska in Fargo anyway!!

You're right. Nobody cares if you're happy watching NDSU play Robert Morris or Charleston Southern. Are you really telling me that is the kind of "problem" you want Bismarck solving for you?

[BisonBacker]

You're right. Nobody cares if you're happy watching NDSU play Robert Morris or Charleston Southern. Are you really telling me that is the kind of "problem" you want Bismarck solving for you?

You clearly took the answer out of context. Let me spell it out to you.
1. NDSU shouldn't just sit fat and happy we are the kings of FCS. They have to plan for the future. Maybe they are I don't know but the fans surely seem more than split on this question. Reminiscent of the 70's when the FCS DII issue was settled and NDSU stayed DII while UNI and others went FCS or more correctly IAA.
2. The Bismarck comment was funding in general not sports specific. But taking it to the next step had NDSU been funded on par with you know who all the playing catchup because buildings are falling apart on campus wouldn't be as dramatic of an issue now.
3. Take the next logical step in the funding comment and carry it over to Athletics. Where would NDSU athletics be financially with a more level playing field in this state? Where would teammakers be if we had a 27K stadium as was originally proposed by the proponents of the dome. Instead the naysayers (similar to now with talk about moving forward) botched and hamstrung NDSU to a 19K facility with no way to expand it. What would another 8-9k bring in revenue wise to NDSU athletics? Shouldn't it be explored as to what options are out there to plan and build a larger facility for NDSU?

I don't care that you are happy to sit and watch Robert Morris or CSU and apparently take offense to fans wanting to see NDSU grow to what it could be as opposed to being a negative nelly and say "we can't do it" or "we should stay where we are". It's small minded thinking like that that poo poo's talk of growing that kept NDSU back in the 70's. Will we ever get to P5 status? Probably not but we are not at the second level of college football no matter what you want to tell yourself. We are at the 3rd level. Whatever the G5 ends up being is where NDSU needs to plan for not staying FCS. That's all I'm saying.

[Bisonator98]

NDSU needs to keep building up the infrastructure so when the call comes they can make the move with confidence in continuity of the program. That means a new stadium, IPF and being able to fully fund our coaching staffs properly at the next level. They aren't there yet but I'm confident they'll be ready when the time comes. If you want "a move up" then put your money where your mouth is and write the check!

[bisonaudit]

You clearly took the answer out of context. Let me spell it out to you.
1. NDSU shouldn't just sit fat and happy we are the kings of FCS. They have to plan for the future. Maybe they are I don't know but the fans surely seem more than split on this question. Reminiscent of the 70's when the FCS DII issue was settled and NDSU stayed DII while UNI and others went FCS or more correctly IAA.
2. The Bismarck comment was funding in general not sports specific. But taking it to the next step had NDSU been funded on par with you know who all the playing catchup because buildings are falling apart on campus wouldn't be as dramatic of an issue now.
3. Take the next logical step in the funding comment and carry it over to Athletics. Where would NDSU athletics be financially with a more level playing field in this state? Where would teammakers be if we had a 27K stadium as was originally proposed by the proponents of the dome. Instead the naysayers (similar to now with talk about moving forward) botched and hamstrung NDSU to a 19K facility with no way to expand it. What would another 8-9k bring in revenue wise to NDSU athletics? Shouldn't it be explored as to what options are out there to plan and build a larger facility for NDSU?

I don't care that you are happy to sit and watch Robert Morris or CSU and apparently take offense to fans wanting to see NDSU grow to what it could be as opposed to being a negative nelly and say "we can't do it" or "we should stay where we are". It's small minded thinking like that that poo poo's talk of growing that kept NDSU back in the 70's. Will we ever get to P5 status? Probably not but we are not at the second level of college football no matter what you want to tell yourself. We are at the 3rd level. Whatever the G5 ends up being is where NDSU needs to plan for not staying FCS. That's all I'm saying.

I'm just hearing a lot of jaw jacking about what people want and who's fault they think it is that they don't have it and not much about how to actually get anything done about it.

[td577]

I want to move up as much as anyone, but reality sucks. There are 400 variables that need to be addressed to make the move happen and to be successful. When I say successful, I really mean profitable.

1. A move to a G5 conference is a lateral move that costs tons more money without that much a return. Sure the BCS playoffs are set up to supposedly allow a G5 team in, but it isn't going to happen. Every planet, moon, and star in about 7 galaxies will have to line up. The only guarantee is ONE major bowl game for all of the G5 schools. I would rather have playoffs and a national championship with the top 5 or 6 schools capable of being near the top of the G5. The G5 television money isn't that great, so with less games, there is less opportunities to watch your favorite team and less opportunities to profit.
2. A P5 move is the only move that intrigues me and this is where the problem gets ultra complicated.
3. We would need a new stadium. At a minimum it would need to be 35k. Let's figure $200M for a barebones 35k seat dome.
3b. We would need to fund more scholarships to meet Title IX.
4. At least the Fargodome could be gutted and turned into a IPF.
5. The TV market, while completely virgin territory to FBS football, is still on the fringe of even the smallest P5 markets. If it wasn't for tradition, I am sure there are some already in the P5 that wouldn't oppose dumping those schools.
6. Nothing happens unless NDSU boosters fund this while continuing to fund what is already going on. There should be no expectation the state will put a dime in even if one could show having a FBS school in the state would have tremendous value and an ultimate positive return. Also, while the Fargodome has been very profitable for the city, I can't imagine with their finance plans for the next 75 years for other projects that haven't started yet, they would very generous going forward.
7. We need a conference invite. This isn't going to happen without NDSU laying out the financial investment they are willing to make. When you start looking at endowments, department funds, and other accounts, we are at the top of the game in just about every way on and off the field in FCS. Compared to P5 schools, we aren't even in the same stratosphere. No one wants a school looking at moving up to make money. They want schools who can self-sustain without the TV contracts and those contracts boost their product. They already have schools who rely solely on the TV contracts to support their athletic budgets, they don't want more. The P5 schools are run by money, not on-the-field competitiveness. Sure one can drive the other, but their feeling is you have to have it to get into their game of making more.
8. I would say for discussions to even begin happening, there needs to be a $500M+ investment into the program somehow. Even if we could get every single alumni to donate $6k, we wouldn't get there. That would have to be on top of what anyone is currently giving. While the next option would be to have the state contribute, which would make a lot of sense because it would benefit the state greatly to have a FBS school, our state doesn't see it that way no matter how you present it. I also think it would be at the expense of _nd moving back to D2. Which they probably should anyways.

Enjoy what we have. It is a great product and when we play the top schools in our tier, it is great football. We get to play for a national championship and dictate most of our own terms. Everything else either is not in the best interest, like G5 at the moment, or P5, which is unattainable for this program. While there is a winning formula in the locker room and on the playing field to compete with anyone, there is not the financial capacity to make this happen at the highest level. If that changes, it would be awesome.

[No_Skill]

You really think the city owned Fargodome would be gutted for an ipf?

[td577]

You really think the city owned Fargodome would be gutted for an ipf?

No. I was just offering a solution that would save money they way.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

This is worthless convo-----Bison would need $75-100 million more in athletic department to make jump in ALL SPORTS----
Yes Bison can win in FBS matchups even without 22 less scholarships; FCS 63 FBS 85 but why do they need to be in FBS

THEY BELONG AS ONE OF TOP FOOTBALL PROGRAMS IN THE COUNTRY PERIOD

Isn't the Big 12 looking for football members only? That's all most fans are looking for anyways.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

You do realize NDSU plays a lot of games in December? Any new stadium will be an indoor stadium. The winters in Fargo are much more terrible than the ones I experienced growing up in Northern Minnesota.

Not if we are FBS. Will be done mid November.

[thebootfitter]

Isn't the Big 12 looking for football members only? That's all most fans are looking for anyways.
If we go FBS, we have to fund all the scholarships for men and women at that level as well as have the facilities to support it. Doesn't matter if they are looking for football only or not from that perspective.

However, it would solve the problem of having an attractive conference invitation. I don't know what it would take to make that happen. Would be cool if it did happen. But I'm not counting on it.

[tjamz]

How many of you would welcome a move to the FBS?

Yeah, I'm a Johnny-come-lately to Bisonville, but I've been following NDSU since the late 70s, lived in Fargo quite a long time, and have never liked the big fish in a small pond mentality. I thoroughly enjoyed that game today and my hat is off to the Bison and their faithful fans once again. When it comes to winning traditions, NDSU is absolutely one of the elite programs in the country. But time has come to sit at the grown-ups table and shut up all the naysayers once and for all. The Big 10 isn't scheduling FCS teams anymore and I figure the rest of the power 5 will soon follow suit once they realize what the implications are of any of their teams losing to an FCS team. Who does that leave for the Bison to embarrass once the power 5 won't schedule them? Ball State? Idaho? UTEP? It's getting to the point where NDSU is going to have to pay them to go to Fargo for a butt whipping. For now, you have one more behemoth to knock off, but that's 4 years away. I hope they can schedule a few more before it's too late.

I'm sure there are a number of threads on this topic, but I don't like bumping when they're older than half a dozen pages gone. Sorry.

Where do you stand when it comes to moving up?


I think the overwhelming majority of us are in favor of moving up, but the conditions have to be right. Where we will differ is if we think that NOW is the right time. If the B1G or B12 came calling, virtually everyone here would be in favor of a move up immediately.... but since that is unlikely to happen the two camps break into "move up now" or "move up when the time is right".

Those in the move up now camp are content with accepting a role of mediocrity in a G5 conference where there is never a chance for a national title run again... barring a P5 break from the G5 entirely.

Which leads us to camp #2 which is the move up when the time is right crowd, they see an inevitable split of P5 & G5 conferences and are willing to bet that when that happens it will be a perfect time for NDSU and the rest of the elite FCS schools to restructure and set up a championship tournament similar to what we have now kicking the weaker FCS teams back to D2 and essentially rebuilding the FCS with teams from the MAC, MWC, Sunbelt, CUSA, AAC and other power FCS schools to create an ultra competitive, yet still affordable (relatively) subdivision. They like the idea of playing "for something" and don't find the Royal Purple Bowl to be all that exciting.

[No_Skill]

Not if we are FBS. Will be done mid November.

Today, yes. What if 10 years from now there really is a split and the g5 decide on a playoff. Then what?

[MAKBison]

I think the overwhelming majority of us are in favor of moving up, but the conditions have to be right. Where we will differ is if we think that NOW is the right time. If the B1G or B12 came calling, virtually everyone here would be in favor of a move up immediately.... but since that is unlikely to happen the two camps break into "move up now" or "move up when the time is right".

Those in the move up now camp are content with accepting a role of mediocrity in a G5 conference where there is never a chance for a national title run again... barring a P5 break from the G5 entirely.

Which leads us to camp #2 which is the move up when the time is right crowd, they see an inevitable split of P5 & G5 conferences and are willing to bet that when that happens it will be a perfect time for NDSU and the rest of the elite FCS schools to restructure and set up a championship tournament similar to what we have now kicking the weaker FCS teams back to D2 and essentially rebuilding the FCS with teams from the MAC, MWC, Sunbelt, CUSA, AAC and other power FCS schools to create an ultra competitive, yet still affordable (relatively) subdivision. They like the idea of playing "for something" and don't find the Royal Purple Bowl to be all that exciting.

Nothing like framing the narrative....""move up now" or "move up when the time is right"......Those in the move up now camp are content with accepting a role of mediocrity......Which leads us to camp #2 which is the move up when the time is right crowd.....They like the idea of playing "for something" and don't find the Royal Purple Bowl to be all that exciting"

I think TJmaz was just trying to say its about 50/50 depending on who you ask.

[td577]

Isn't the Big 12 looking for football members only? That's all most fans are looking for anyways.

I think if the Big 12 does go this route, there are really only a handful of schools willing to go along. I have read where BYU is on the fence about football only because they are hung up on basketball still being in the WCC and there are some who feel their BB program should also be in the Big 12. There are other schools happy with the conferences their BB and non-revenue sports are in and leaving them for football might jeopardize all of their sports in the conference they are currently in. Does Cincinnati and Houston risk being out of the AAC for their other sports if they go football only to the Big 12? The AAC will want to have the leverage available to attract their next schools to possibly fill the void left by offering for all sports. Then maybe the question becomes does the AAC offer football only and does a program like NDSU bite at that? If you are going to go G5, it should be the best G5 conference.

If the Big 12 expands with football only, it opens up a completely different can of worms and one that would get very interesting. NDSU is still one of the few top 30-50 programs in the country that can make a move in football only and probably be very satisfied with the rest of its sports where they are at. It doesn't change the need for additional funds, but changes a lot of numbers as far as a lot of expenses are still predictable.

[MAKBison]

I think if the Big 12 does go this route, there are really only a handful of schools willing to go along. I have read where BYU is on the fence about football only because they are hung up on basketball still being in the WCC and there are some who feel their BB program should also be in the Big 12. There are other schools happy with the conferences their BB and non-revenue sports are in and leaving them for football might jeopardize all of their sports in the conference they are currently in. Does Cincinnati and Houston risk being out of the AAC for their other sports if they go football only to the Big 12? The AAC will want to have the leverage available to attract their next schools to possibly fill the void left by offering for all sports. Then maybe the question becomes does the AAC offer football only and does a program like NDSU bite at that? If you are going to go G5, it should be the best G5 conference.

If the Big 12 expands with football only, it opens up a completely different can of worms and one that would get very interesting. NDSU is still one of the few top 30-50 programs in the country that can make a move in football only and probably be very satisfied with the rest of its sports where they are at. It doesn't change the need for additional funds, but changes a lot of numbers as far as a lot of expenses are still predictable.

I agree, but if NDSU were to go Football only, FB would be joining NDSU Wrestling in the Big 12. At that point you might as well go all in.

[td577]

I agree, but if NDSU were to go Football only/ The FB would be joining NDSU Wrestling in the Big 12. At that point you might as well go all in.

The word is that the Big 12 is considering football only. It isn't like a school has a choice in the matter. The chances went from 0% of the Big 12 inviting NDSU in all sports to 0.1% for football only. It is the fallout that would be most interesting across other conferences. The problem with a school like NDSU going all sports to another conference would be expenditures would skyrocket for all the non-revenue sports. Football only to FBS would keeping all the other expenditures the same while building FBS football with higher revenue for the highest revenue program in your athletic department. If something like that were to happen, sure down the road the rest could follow, but hte Big 12 is trying to figure out how to make the P5 football gods happy while keeping the Big 12 basketball schools happy. NDSU might be able to benefit either directly or indirectly being one of the few programs able to make a football only move.

[MAKBison]

The word is that the Big 12 is considering football only. It isn't like a school has a choice in the matter. The chances went from 0% of the Big 12 inviting NDSU in all sports to 0.1% for football only. It is the fallout that would be most interesting across other conferences. The problem with a school like NDSU going all sports to another conference would be expenditures would skyrocket for all the non-revenue sports. Football only to FBS would keeping all the other expenditures the same while building FBS football with higher revenue for the highest revenue program in your athletic department. If something like that were to happen, sure down the road the rest could follow, but hte Big 12 is trying to figure out how to make the P5 football gods happy while keeping the Big 12 basketball schools happy. NDSU might be able to benefit either directly or indirectly being one of the few programs able to make a football only move.

I understand that, but if in this highly theoretical discussion, if you take a school that already has 1 program in and add another you might as well make them a full member. I dont see how adding NDSU MBB upset the apple cart. The only real reason they are saying FB only is because they want BYU. I dont care who you are BYU us not playing any games on Sunday or Wed. for that matter. The only way BYU goes to the Big 12 is if its FB only and or the Big 12 stops playing sports on Sunday

[td577]

I understand that, but if in this highly theoretical discussion, if you take a school that already has 1 program in and add another you might as well make them a full member. I dont see how adding NDSU MBB upset the apple cart. The only real reason they are saying FB only is because they want BYU. I dont care who you are BYU us not playing any games on Sunday or Wed. for that matter. The only way BYU goes to the Big 12 is if its FB only and or the Big 12 stops playing sports on Sunday

BYU is what started their discussion about football only, but now the basketball schools are in favor of that as being the expansion plan all together. The funny part is that BYU is split on this plan because they are on the fence about all or nothing because they think the WCC sucks and wants everything in. The Big 12 BB schools don't want to share the BB revenue with anyone. So it is starting to look like if the Big 12 wants to expand their conference to have a football playoffs, to appease all the presidents and have them sign off on it, they might be going with a football only plan no matter who they invite. BYU would be stupid to decline it because no matter what, they would still be in the WCC for the rest of their sports and they have no leverage. The other schools in the conversation do have a lot more to think about because they are in a good basketball conference. With a handful of AAC schools in the discussion, they might be looking for a new home for their other sports if they take a football only option. Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State, for example, don't want Cincinnati and Houston playing basketball in the Big 12 and sharing that revenue. They are sounding like the compromise for everyone is football only for anyone.

[MAKBison]

BYU is what started their discussion about football only, but now the basketball schools are in favor of that as being the expansion plan all together. The funny part is that BYU is split on this plan because they are on the fence about all or nothing because they think the WCC sucks and wants everything in. The Big 12 BB schools don't want to share the BB revenue with anyone. So it is starting to look like if the Big 12 wants to expand their conference to have a football playoffs, to appease all the presidents and have them sign off on it, they might be going with a football only plan no matter who they invite. BYU would be stupid to decline it because no matter what, they would still be in the WCC for the rest of their sports and they have no leverage. The other schools in the conversation do have a lot more to think about because they are in a good basketball conference. With a handful of AAC schools in the discussion, they might be looking for a new home for their other sports if they take a football only option. Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State, for example, don't want Cincinnati and Houston playing basketball in the Big 12 and sharing that revenue. They are sounding like the compromise for everyone is football only for anyone.

I am not sure BYU looks at is as a pure $$$ issue tho. Also and again theoretical as its not happening.... I am not sure how adding NDSU BB upsets the apple cart. I guess it would depend on how you share the $$$$. I just assume its based on merit

[SC_TX]

Nothing like framing the narrative....""move up now" or "move up when the time is right"......Those in the move up now camp are content with accepting a role of mediocrity......Which leads us to camp #2 which is the move up when the time is right crowd.....They like the idea of playing "for something" and don't find the Royal Purple Bowl to be all that exciting"

I think TJmaz was just trying to say its about 50/50 depending on who you ask.

How can there be a better time than now to move? If we wait like 5 years the football program could take a step back by then who knows. Then everyone will be mad we are entering FBS with not as good of a program

[MAKBison]

How can there be a better time than now to move? If we wait like 5 years the football program could take a step back by then who knows. Then everyone will be mad we are entering FBS with not as good of a program

I am in the pro move up crowed, I would love to move up. Like TD said there are about 1000 variables one has to deal with and some of those are not easy nuts to crack. I was just poking fun at how TJamz framed the argument......its obvious what camp he is in :-)

[td577]

I am not sure BYU looks at is as a pure $$$ issue tho. Also and again theoretical as its not happening.... I am not sure how adding NDSU BB upsets the apple cart. I guess it would depend on how you share the $$$$. I just assume its based on merit

BYU isn't theoretical. That is real. The Big 12 football schools want them but doesn't want to cater to the Sunday thing with other sports. That whole thing just sparked the interest of the BB schools who didn't want to expand at all but can compromise with the football only invite. If they don't expand it is all because BB won out. While the football money is a lot bigger, it is the basketball money half of the conference doesn't want to share. So then we go full circle. There aren't a lot of programs out there willing to go football only to the Big 12 because they might lose out on being in the BB conference they are already in that pays well. Those schools don't want to crawl to the Summit for other sports. BYU wants out of the WCC for everything but the Big 12 wants to play on Sundays for everything else. It narrows the field a lot.

So now you have Cincinnati and Houston who are the front runners. The Big 12 can guarantee a positive vote for football only from its presidents. No campaigning to let them in for everything. No figuring out how to split other TV contracts. Just football. Are Cincinnati and Houston willing to leave the AAC for football and leave their BB programs without a conference? That becomes the rub. Now if the AAC is willing to let them go for FB, are they going to expand football only? Who is still left attractive enough for football only? Basically the G5 conferences are FCS+. BB schools that play football. The AAC is a little better at football than the others.

So the Big 12 has found its way to make ALL of its current members happy with the football only. There is no clue how their target list will react. They probably have to start over if those schools pull out of a football only arrangement. The Big 12 still really needs to expand. Somewhere some serious compromises have to be made to make this all work. Even theoretically, NDSU might somehow find its way into someone's conversation. Even if it is to cover a Cincinnati in the AAC so they can go football only to the Big 12. Or maybe the Big 12 doesn't play around and puts it off for now to see how some markets grow in a few years, like NDSU, and readdress football only to appease their BB strong schools. The bottom line is it is looking like the Big 12 has found its solution. Now it has to find the schools who will play along as the answer.

[Panther100]

I would be okay with combining the G5 with the scholarship FCS to have ten sixteen team conferences with an 11 game regular season consisting of 7 divisional and 4 inter divisional games. I would advocate the FCS increasing to 85 scholarships if the school can budget for it. The national title would be settled thru a 64 team playoff on campus sites with the National Title Final Game played on a neutral site. I think that would be helpful to the school's budgeting issues/scheduling problems due to less travel. I would venture to say most G5/FCS schools can't balance their budgets and need to find creative ways to limit their budget deficits.

[oldmantutters]

I would be okay with combining the G5 with the scholarship FCS to have ten sixteen team conferences with an 11 game regular season consisting of 7 divisional and 4 inter divisional games. I would advocate the FCS increasing to 85 scholarships if the school can budget for it. The national title would be settled thru a 64 team playoff on campus sites with the National Title Final Game played on a neutral site. I think that would be helpful to the school's budgeting issues/scheduling problems due to less travel. Most G5/FCS schools can't balance their budgets and need to find creative ways to limit their budget deficits.
I'd like for everything to shake out. P5 becomes P4 (4 16-team conferences), G5 combines with the top of the FCS. I think 10 16-team conferences it's too much. And I also think 64 team playoff is too much, but I like the rest. I think 16 is a good number, 24 has been working alright and I wouldn't anticipate the number ever going down, but I could live with 32.

I'd like somehow for the requirements for the different divisions to be a little more concrete. I'd hate for the G5/FCS hybrid to have a repeat of what happened with D2. Which in reality is what has caused the bottom of the FCS to become so poor. We have our neighbors to the north to thank for a little bit of that (fuck you Roger Thomas, may you die of gonorrhea and rot in hell).

Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk

[td577]

I would be okay with combining the G5 with the scholarship FCS to have ten sixteen team conferences with an 11 game regular season consisting of 7 divisional and 4 inter divisional games. I would advocate the FCS increasing to 85 scholarships if the school can budget for it. The national title would be settled thru a 64 team playoff on campus sites with the National Title Final Game played on a neutral site. I think that would be helpful to the school's budgeting issues/scheduling problems due to less travel. I would venture to say most G5/FCS schools can't balance their budgets and need to find creative ways to limit their budget deficits.

I have brought it up in other threads. I do think the future 2nd tier will be the G5 and FCS combining with their own playoff system. 16 team conferences, 8 team divisions. 7 division games, 3 OOC games with one of them with a P5 conference school for each program. A conference championship. Then the playoffs with conference championships and a small handful of at large bids. Teams that don't make the playoffs are open to a bowl game. Maybe we can get the HBCUs back into the fold. Create a brand of high quality football that doesn't compete against the P5 but along side them.

I think the key to this is allowing the non-scholarship FCS schools to go D2 and disconnect the requirement for a school to be D1 in football to have a D1 BB program. Allow schools to be D1 in everything else and in whatever division they want to financially support their FB program in. This would even the playing field for a true 2nd tier that is competitive and attractive to consumers.

[Panther100]

I mentioned that partly due to financial issues such as Full Cost of Attendance. Northern Iowa offers it to football, Men's Basketball, and all women sports. I think Northern Iowa will always have budget issues. Therefore, they have to save costs as much as possible. I think the Power 5 (66 teams including Notre Dame/BYU) split off separately and won't play outside their division after the split.

[Panther100]

I'd like for everything to shake out. P5 becomes P4 (4 16-team conferences), G5 combines with the top of the FCS. I think 10 16-team conferences it's too much. And I also think 64 team playoff is too much, but I like the rest. I think 16 is a good number, 24 has been working alright and I wouldn't anticipate the number ever going down, but I could live with 32.

I'd like somehow for the requirements for the different divisions to be a little more concrete. I'd hate for the G5/FCS hybrid to have a repeat of what happened with D2. Which in reality is what has caused the bottom of the FCS to become so poor. We have our neighbors to the north to thank for a little bit of that (fuck you Roger Thomas, may you die of gonorrhea and rot in hell).

Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk

Yeah, I can see why you like the current setup (5 FCS Titles). I suggested that due to the fact of Northern Iowa needing to save costs. I think the Power 5 or Power 4 split off will never play us again.

[Panther100]

What floors me is the fact that panthernation.com has a "NDSU is King" football thread... You know the board that kicked me out in June... They can have their little slumber party to their heart's content... Yep, those little Pu%$ Bags have already conceded the October 29th game... Wow! Just Wow!

[Bison03]

Why do people have the same argument about moving up after every title or fbs win?! It doesnt matter how good we are. When are people going to realize this?!! We could win 25 fcs titles ina row, win 25 fbs games in a row, and beat Alabama, and it still doesnt change the facts. No conference invite because based mostly on media market and how much money they can make and having to increse our athletic budget by tens of millions of dollars isnt going to happen.

[tjamz]

Nothing like framing the narrative....""move up now" or "move up when the time is right"......Those in the move up now camp are content with accepting a role of mediocrity......Which leads us to camp #2 which is the move up when the time is right crowd.....They like the idea of playing "for something" and don't find the Royal Purple Bowl to be all that exciting"

I think TJmaz was just trying to say its about 50/50 depending on who you ask.

I think everyone got my intent. And by mediocrity I meant not competing for championships, not necessarily the program slipping into a 6-5 team year after year.

[NDSUstudent]

A football only type of invite would be intriguing but conferences don't really roll that way anymore.

[tjamz]

I am in the pro move up crowed, I would love to move up. Like TD said there are about 1000 variables one has to deal with and some of those are not easy nuts to crack. I was just poking fun at how TJamz framed the argument......its obvious what camp he is in :-)

I'm in the move up now camp. In case anyone was wondering..... but I understand and respect why others want to wait it out.

[56BISON73]

I'm in the move up now camp. In case anyone was wondering..... but I understand and respect why others want to wait it out.

But you at least have the brains to understand why we cant move up now. Or am I giving you the benefit of the doubt?:biggrin:

[Strategery]

Why do people have the same argument about moving up after every title or fbs win?! It doesnt matter how good we are. When are people going to realize this?!! We could win 25 fcs titles ina row, win 25 fbs games in a row, and beat Alabama, and it still doesnt change the facts. No conference invite because based mostly on media market and how much money they can make and having to increse our athletic budget by tens of millions of dollars isnt going to happen.

This. Unfortunately, success at the FCS level is like the fifth item in the order of importance that you need in order to move up to the FBS level (and it doesn't even have to be that high of a degree of success. Just ask Coastal Carolina.) All of the "move up" discussions that are centered around how good we are are completely pointless.

[Panther100]

I have brought it up in other threads. I do think the future 2nd tier will be the G5 and FCS combining with their own playoff system. 16 team conferences, 8 team divisions. 7 division games, 3 OOC games with one of them with a P5 conference school for each program. A conference championship. Then the playoffs with conference championships and a small handful of at large bids. Teams that don't make the playoffs are open to a bowl game. Maybe we can get the HBCUs back into the fold. Create a brand of high quality football that doesn't compete against the P5 but along side them.

I think the key to this is allowing the non-scholarship FCS schools to go D2 and disconnect the requirement for a school to be D1 in football to have a D1 BB program. Allow schools to be D1 in everything else and in whatever division they want to financially support their FB program in. This would even the playing field for a true 2nd tier that is competitive and attractive to consumers.

A good theory. However, the Non Scholarship FCS are usually schools with budget problems and would not be able to afford the 45 scholarships at the D2 level. There are always exceptions and a few Non Scholarship FCS would take on the 45 scholarships at the D2 level, but would increase their budget deficit.

[ByeSonBusiness]

P5 or nothing. G5 conference offers nothing but a shot at a shitty bowl game.

Houston called, they said winning a New Years bowl was pretty fun.

If they win out, they are in the playoff almost certainly.

[td577]

A good theory. However, the Non Scholarship FCS are usually schools with budget problems and would not be able to afford the 45 scholarships at the D2 level. There are always exceptions and a few Non Scholarship FCS would take on the 45 scholarships at the D2 level, but would increase their budget deficit.

The D2 move was an example. I say let the non-scholarship schools move to D3 if they want. Just unhinge the D1 requirement to play basketball. That is why we have a FCS level to begin with. Schools that want to be D1 in other sports but don't want to finance at a FBS level in football. It has caused way too much disparity at the FCS level. I don't know the exact count but is it 3 conferences now that don't participate in the playoffs? 3 or 4 that don't offer scholarships? Some offer COA, some don't. Even the ones that do offer scholarships don't offer all of them. So remove the D1 football requirement from the other sports being D1 and let schools pick the level they want to finance at. Allow the 2nd tier to be 85 scholarships with a mix of G5 and FCS schools who want to fund at that level. Reorganize as the new FCS with committed football schools who can't fund at the P5 level. The only difference to the current setup would be conference championships and slightly restructuring the playoffs. I think you would end up with 64 schools at the P5 level, around 128 schools at the new FCS level, and everyone else added to whatever level they want to play at.

[El_Chapo]

regarding tv market BS narrative
fargo is 115th and guess what.
THE SHARE ON TVS WATCHING NDSU BLOWS AWAY OTHER MARKETS.

Colorado has millions of tvs in denver but those hippies dont watch them

at least ndsu has everyone watching them

find 4 major sponsers at 25 mil raise 50 mil and voila a 42k seat oitdoor stadium with big walls to keep out wind.

[NodakBizon]

Good Lord, all this move up now talk is such bs. If anyone thinks we should move up just to move up into the MAC or MW or SunBelt or whatever conference other than p5 you are an idiot! And if you think the Big10 or Big12 will be calling anytime soon your deliosional. We have to wait and see what the P5 is going to do and that will basically make our decision for us. P5 will break away and whatever is left will become FCS or 1-AA or whatever it will be called and that is where we will go and where we should go.

[tjamz]

But you at least have the brains to understand why we cant move up now. Or am I giving you the benefit of the doubt?:biggrin:
correct. If a MWC invite or better showed up, I'd be on board....Maybe even a MAC invite. No sunbelt or cusa though.

EDIT: Part of the reason I'm in the move up now crowd is because I think NDSU has a better chance at controlling their destiny if/when the P5 split than after the split. After there is a chance (albeit small perhaps) that we don't get an invite. Maybe the G5 just say "screw it" and keep their own group together and don't add anyone or only add those that make sense geographically (MWC picking up EWU, Montana, MSU for example... but not us) and the MAC picking up (EIU, ISUr, UNI and not us... for example).

In my dream world we get a B12 football only invite, but I'm definitely willing to admit that this is just fantasy talk.

[Panther100]

The D2 move was an example. I say let the non-scholarship schools move to D3 if they want. Just unhinge the D1 requirement to play basketball. That is why we have a FCS level to begin with. Schools that want to be D1 in other sports but don't want to finance at a FBS level in football. It has caused way too much disparity at the FCS level. I don't know the exact count but is it 3 conferences now that don't participate in the playoffs? 3 or 4 that don't offer scholarships? Some offer COA, some don't. Even the ones that do offer scholarships don't offer all of them. So remove the D1 football requirement from the other sports being D1 and let schools pick the level they want to finance at. Allow the 2nd tier to be 85 scholarships with a mix of G5 and FCS schools who want to fund at that level. Reorganize as the new FCS with committed football schools who can't fund at the P5 level. The only difference to the current setup would be conference championships and slightly restructuring the playoffs. I think you would end up with 64 schools at the P5 level, around 128 schools at the new FCS level, and everyone else added to whatever level they want to play at.

Yeah, that can work. Your earlier post of a playoff/bowl game for the new G5/FCS level sounds good as well. I came up with that 64 team G5/FCS playoff for 6 weeks starting the Saturday after Thanksgiving because I prefer playoffs instead of bowl games. I don't think the new levels should play outside their respective divisions. I counted 66 for the Power 5 including Notre Dame, Army, and BYU that are currently Independent.

[SC_TX]

Why do people have the same argument about moving up after every title or fbs win?! It doesnt matter how good we are. When are people going to realize this?!! We could win 25 fcs titles ina row, win 25 fbs games in a row, and beat Alabama, and it still doesnt change the facts. No conference invite because based mostly on media market and how much money they can make and having to increse our athletic budget by tens of millions of dollars isnt going to happen.

You think Fargo ND is a smaller media market than Boone NC or Statesboro GA? Stop thinking of Fargo as a small town. NDSu is the biggets team in all of ND and much of Minnesota which is a far bigger footprint than many FBS teams out there.

[SC_TX]

BYU isn't theoretical. That is real. The Big 12 football schools want them but doesn't want to cater to the Sunday thing with other sports. That whole thing just sparked the interest of the BB schools who didn't want to expand at all but can compromise with the football only invite. If they don't expand it is all because BB won out. While the football money is a lot bigger, it is the basketball money half of the conference doesn't want to share. So then we go full circle. There aren't a lot of programs out there willing to go football only to the Big 12 because they might lose out on being in the BB conference they are already in that pays well. Those schools don't want to crawl to the Summit for other sports. BYU wants out of the WCC for everything but the Big 12 wants to play on Sundays for everything else. It narrows the field a lot.

So now you have Cincinnati and Houston who are the front runners. The Big 12 can guarantee a positive vote for football only from its presidents. No campaigning to let them in for everything. No figuring out how to split other TV contracts. Just football. Are Cincinnati and Houston willing to leave the AAC for football and leave their BB programs without a conference? That becomes the rub. Now if the AAC is willing to let them go for FB, are they going to expand football only? Who is still left attractive enough for football only? Basically the G5 conferences are FCS+. BB schools that play football. The AAC is a little better at football than the others.

So the Big 12 has found its way to make ALL of its current members happy with the football only. There is no clue how their target list will react. They probably have to start over if those schools pull out of a football only arrangement. The Big 12 still really needs to expand. Somewhere some serious compromises have to be made to make this all work. Even theoretically, NDSU might somehow find its way into someone's conversation. Even if it is to cover a Cincinnati in the AAC so they can go football only to the Big 12. Or maybe the Big 12 doesn't play around and puts it off for now to see how some markets grow in a few years, like NDSU, and readdress football only to appease their BB strong schools. The bottom line is it is looking like the Big 12 has found its solution. Now it has to find the schools who will play along as the answer.

Personally I think the Big 12 should take BYU in a heartbeat. They have a WORLDWIDE fanbase based on their affiliation with the LDS church. Way bigger football tradition and fanbase than any other expansion option and opens the Big 12 up to the west.

[56BISON73]

correct. If a MWC invite or better showed up, I'd be on board....Maybe even a MAC invite. No sunbelt or cusa though.

EDIT: Part of the reason I'm in the move up now crowd is because I think NDSU has a better chance at controlling their destiny if/when the P5 split than after the split. After there is a chance (albeit small perhaps) that we don't get an invite. Maybe the G5 just say "screw it" and keep their own group together and don't add anyone or only add those that make sense geographically (MWC picking up EWU, Montana, MSU for example... but not us) and the MAC picking up (EIU, ISUr, UNI and not us... for example).

In my dream world we get a B12 football only invite, but I'm definitely willing to admit that this is just fantasy talk.

Ok now lets talk money. Where is the extra 20 million plus going to come from?

[thebootfitter]

Ok now lets talk money. Where is the extra 20 million plus going to come from?
Per year...

[Bison bison]

Personally I think the Big 12 should take BYU in a heartbeat. They have a WORLDWIDE fanbase based on their affiliation with the LDS church.

Rev. BoB JoHnson #closethread #MoveFBSNow

[Twentysix]

What is with NDSU fans talking about Georgia Southern an App like they are failing as FBS teams?

App St was 11-2 last year, and the schedule they have this year is something to envy.

Georgia southern was 9-4. Neither team is struggling as an FBS team.

[Twentysix]

Personally I think the Big 12 should take BYU in a heartbeat. They have a WORLDWIDE fanbase based on their affiliation with the LDS church. Way bigger football tradition and fanbase than any other expansion option and opens the Big 12 up to the west.

Pretty sure UT has a bigger fanbase than the Mormon religion has followers.

[SC_TX]

Pretty sure UT has a bigger fanbase than the Mormon religion has followers.

And last time I checked Texas is already in the big 12 yes?

[GreenfieldBison]

Pretty sure UT has a bigger fanbase than the Mormon religion has followers.

Yeah, sorry to say you'd be wrong about that. (Not a member of the LDS church.)

[Twentysix]

Yeah, sorry to say you'd be wrong about that. (Not a member of the LDS church.)

Just saying toting some world wide fanbase based on religion is a little funny when the religion only has about 15 million members worldwide, more than half of those in countries that don't even care that American football exists.

[Twentysix]

You'd probably be better off targeting a place like army and claiming all US military veterans would follow them. It's at least a bigger number.

[El_Chapo]

what is with ndsu fans talking about georgia southern an app like they are failing as fbs teams?

App st was 11-2 last year, and the schedule they have this year is something to envy.

Georgia southern was 9-4. Neither team is struggling as an fbs team.


and we have a bingo!!

[SC_TX]

Just saying toting some world wide fanbase based on religion is a little funny when the religion only has about 15 million members worldwide, more than half of those in countries that don't even care that American football exists.

Except in that religion BYU is THE place. Not even Notre Dame has such a close tie with a religion and its members. Plus football has a pretty big following in Samoa, which is majority LDS. That's why BYU always gets the Polynesian players.

[Twentysix]

Except in that religion BYU is THE place. Not even Notre Dame has such a close tie with a religion and its members. Plus football has a pretty big following in Samoa, which is majority LDS. That's why BYU always gets the Polynesian players.

I lived in Samoa. There are more people in the Fargo metro.

Together, both Samoas (American and Western) are like 230,000. You are like literally talking about 15,000-30,000 people (Samoans in Samoa who are Mormon).

Edit: Had to bold that part, I mean you just made it up. LDS is the third biggest religion in Samoa at 15% according to the census. The country is by majority protestant, then catholic.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ws.html

[Twentysix]

NFL football does have a really big following in Samoa though, you are right about that. I've never seen more trucks and houses with NFL logos painted on them than in Pago Pago.

[SC_TX]

well they produce quite a few football players for their size

[Trumpster]

The chances went from 0% of the Big 12 inviting NDSU in all sports to 0.1% for football only.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/dc/dc2fd6da2c741a3b2f6ae5fcf700e06fafe43267ea27157911 8ef4292ffb25c6.jpg

[ChuckYufarley]

27th in the AP poll and a lot of you are happy to stay where you are. Makes no sense. I know, it's all about the money. Lot of people saying it would take an additional $20M a year. McFeely's article last Spring said something more like $10M. Still not cheap. The Fargodome does meet FBS basic requirements, so a new stadium wouldn't have to be at the top of the list, or even in the top 5. I never got an answer as to how much the charitable gaming contributes. Am I completely off base thinking it pays for anything measurable, or at all? Does NDSU athletics operate in the red now? Basic requirements for FBS inclusion don't look all that steep, but then I don't know what NDSU's books look like now, so I don't know how much harder it would be to meet the basic requirements. I've seen people mention an IPF. Is that or other additional facilities something that would be a recruiting tool or for some other major purpose? An FBS coaches' pay would be a pretty steep increase, even a middle of the pack contract would be a 200%-300% bump. Where do the rest of the budget increases go? Travel? Paying non-conference opponents to come to Fargo?
Where does the money come from? Yes, that's the question. Is lobbying non-alumni with deep pockets an option? Remembering the way Eddie Schultz humped the collective legs of that program, it's clear you don't need to be an alumnus to fall in love with an institution. There's got to be another Boone Pickens out there who loves a winner but went to community college.

[Hammersmith]

At one time, the charitable gaming part of Team Makers brought in a not-insignificant portion of the TM donation. But that's not the case anymore. I won't say the charitable gaming portion is at the level of a rounding error, but it's at the level of a rounding error. I think it brings in something in the mid 5-figure range. Maybe very low six figure. That's against a donation that looks to be just north of $4M this year.

[NorthernBison]

Conference invite??????

ALL COACHES salaries increase by multiples. Even the assistants.

Do some research. NDSU does nothing on the cheap so a 40-50 mil budget would be the expectation.

Fargo voters will NOT approve a stadium. The city doesn't need one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MAKBison]

Conference invite??????

ALL COACHES salaries increase by multiples. Even the assistants.

Do some research. NDSU does nothing on the cheap so a 40-50 mil budget would be the expectation.

Fargo voters will NOT approve a stadium. The city doesn't need one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well did you read that Fargo is quickly becoming the bestest fastest growing Liberal city. That new all weather dome/cultural center might come quicker than you think....Purple sorta

[1998braves64]

Think McFeely qualified the $10m as a minimum and indicated NDSU fans and culture probably wouldn't be happy doing the funding at a "minimum" amount.
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[ChuckYufarley]

For what people say about the fans and culture not wanting to "settle" for minimum, that makes the resistance to a move doubly confusing.

[MAKBison]

For what people say about the fans and culture not wanting to "settle" for minimum, that makes the resistance to a move doubly confusing.

That is funny right there

[El_Chapo]

For what people say about the fans and culture not wanting to "settle" for minimum, that makes the resistance to a move doubly confusing.

NDSU MOTTO WAS "bring on the competition".... Is it still???? Too many Podunk people that are afraid of change in their lives

[WYOBISONMAN]

We need to watch and see what happens in college football.... We can't support a P5 program, but we could compete in the Mountain West. That is the only non-P5 conference we should look at..... But our stadium is inadequate and we are way out of the footprint of the MWC.

[1998braves64]

For what people say about the fans and culture not wanting to "settle" for minimum, that makes the resistance to a move doubly confusing.


Why? I'd love to buy a private jet. Probably even get far as procuring one but the gig would be up when I have to start producing the money to pay for it and maintain it. Plain and simple we need a way to sustain our funding desires and mechanisms not just next year bit every year after that and keep increasing every year too.

[ChuckYufarley]

Why? I'd love to buy a private jet.

Man, for being salt of the Earth, you guys sure have expensive tastes.

[SC_TX]

For what people say about the fans and culture not wanting to "settle" for minimum, that makes the resistance to a move doubly confusing.

Yep. The opposers just don't see it

[Buffalo.Rider]

You read what I said about the future of P5 scheduling FCS teams, right? In 5 years College Game Day will give no consideration to Fargo when the Bison are beating teams whose conference they should be winning every year. They have Oregon in 4 years, but for now, that's it. Beating Iowa basically knocked the entire Big 10 West down to Mountain West status if the Hawkeyes do well in their division. Just imagine if somehow Iowa ends up back in the Big 10 Championship and plays Ohio State to the wire like they did with Michigan State last year. The brain trusts who pick those four playoff teams would trace the OSU strength of schedule all the way back to Iowa's loss to NDSU, and that could tip the balance as to whether or the Bucks make the cut. Now what P5 conference is going to want to risk that kind of snafu that would keep them out of the National Championship? Pretty soon, all the Bison will have to beat up on in the FBS are scrubs.

The media should call out Delaney (head of the Big 10) and others like him for being a coward. Iowa dropped from 13 to 25 in the coaches poll, so what does that say? Why did Iowa not drop more? It says the coaches know NDSU (and Illinois State Redbirds who beat Northwestern, and UNI who beat Iowa State, et cetera) are worthy opponents. Contrary to all the naysayers in the sports media (and on these bisonville pages), it does not hurt the majors to lose against a worthy FCS opponent, except perhaps psychologically.


ChuckYufarley continued ... Watching how Carson Wentz was talked down leading up to the draft because he "never played a decent team" was excruciating. L.A. and Cleveland are both going to regret listening to that garbage for years to come. Not 5 minutes after the win yesterday and I'm listening to some Fox Sports radio know-it-all discount NDSU for their "lack of quality athletes" ...

Many (most?) of the social higher-ups on the east and west coast (and perhaps social higher-ups in general) discount and look down on people from this part of the country and have done this for decades. It does not matter what people here accomplish, especially when the people here won't buy into all the values (and won't join in on the condescending attitudes) of those people. It is somewhat different in the sports world, but not too much. Like ChuckYufarley (and probably many other bisonville posters) I was surprised at the reaction of some of the sports writers (and bloggers on forums) who could not bring themselves to acknowledge that NDSU's team and its athletes were better than Iowa's last Saturday.

[GreenfieldBison]

Conference invite??????

ALL COACHES salaries increase by multiples. Even the assistants.

Do some research. NDSU does nothing on the cheap so a 40-50 mil budget would be the expectation.

Fargo voters will NOT approve a stadium. The city doesn't need one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, we didn't need any in Minneapolis either but...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[td577]

Yeah, we didn't need any in Minneapolis either but...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TCF was built with 48% state funding. Obviously, MN works a lot different and the way MN views UM is a lot different than the way ND views its universities. ND wants its universities to function with their approval not with their funding.

[ChuckYufarley]

Have the original costs for the Fargodome been recouped and if so, was the sales tax increase that paid for it repealed? If the answers (in order) are yes and no, then there's already a means for building another stadium in place.

[bisonaudit]

Have the original costs for the Fargodome been recouped and if so, was the sales tax increase that paid for it repealed? If the answers (in order) are yes and no, then there's already a means for building another stadium in place.

I believe that the sales tax expired 8 years ago or so.

[offroader613]

I believe that the sales tax expired 8 years ago or so.

Expired 2009 IIRC

[DePereBisonFan]

Anyone sense the MW calling?

[scottietohottie]

If NDSU goes mw I'll start cheering for teh hockey team. That mw is a step down from what NDSU is doing right now. Seriously we are better off on the top of the fcs mountain then being in a stupid g5 conference. Wait it out until they realign or the big 12 gives an invite.

[1998braves64]

Have the original costs for the Fargodome been recouped and if so, was the sales tax increase that paid for it repealed? If the answers (in order) are yes and no, then there's already a means for building another stadium in place.

Answer is yes and yes. And they already took the .5% tax repealed and started a fund for the diversion project that is going to cost Fargo/Cass Cnty/ND nigh unto $1.3 billion (likely more) by the time it is all done. So right now Fargo is already 7.5% not sure that citizens would bump it to 8 or 8.25% to fund a stadium as we don't have loopholes or don't have a legislature that would find a loophole to get around the voters of Fargo to do a stadium just for NDSU's purposes.

[Elvis was a Bison]

13 pages of rehashed, regurgitated compost???? Must be a bye week.......

[gumby013]

Answer is yes and yes. And they already took the .5% tax repealed and started a fund for the diversion project that is going to cost Fargo/Cass Cnty/ND nigh unto $1.3 billion (likely more) by the time it is all done. So right now Fargo is already 7.5% not sure that citizens would bump it to 8 or 8.25% to fund a stadium as we don't have loopholes or don't have a legislature that would find a loophole to get around the voters of Fargo to do a stadium just for NDSU's purposes.


City funded new stadium doesn't solve one of the biggest issues: Revenue Streams.

As it stands, the Dome Authority gets all, or at least a major share, of concessions, suites, parking, ect...

Building a new facility with new features like club seating would only generate more revenue for the authority. Only solution is for an NDSU owned facility.

[GreenfieldBison]

TCF was built with 48% state funding. Obviously, MN works a lot different and the way MN views UM is a lot different than the way ND views its universities. ND wants its universities to function with their approval not with their funding.

I wasn't referring to TCF - I'm a big fan of that one. It's US Bank that I find irritating. Yeah I know the dome was a dump. I just don't like the negative wealth transfer inherent in this newer stadium.

I also did not mean to suggest that the voters of ND would go for a new facility. I am sure they won't especially given the current climate. I just meant to point out that there was significant oppo to the US Bank construction and yet the power found a way to extract nigh unto $0.5B from the MN taxpayer.

[Hammerhead]

Yes, I am happy. What does national exposure really do for the Bison? It might help get a few recruits and that's about it. Do you think many people outside of Iowa follow the Hawkeyes or Cyclones? I doubt there are many Gopher fans outside of Minnesota other than former Minnesotans.

As a fan, I would rather have the opportunity to watch home playoff games than a midweek bowl game in Detroit or Boise.



27th in the AP poll and a lot of you are happy to stay where you are. Makes no sense. I know, it's all about the money. Lot of people saying it would take an additional $20M a year. McFeely's article last Spring said something more like $10M. Still not cheap. The Fargodome does meet FBS basic requirements, so a new stadium wouldn't have to be at the top of the list, or even in the top 5. I never got an answer as to how much the charitable gaming contributes. Am I completely off base thinking it pays for anything measurable, or at all? Does NDSU athletics operate in the red now? Basic requirements for FBS inclusion don't look all that steep, but then I don't know what NDSU's books look like now, so I don't know how much harder it would be to meet the basic requirements. I've seen people mention an IPF. Is that or other additional facilities something that would be a recruiting tool or for some other major purpose? An FBS coaches' pay would be a pretty steep increase, even a middle of the pack contract would be a 200%-300% bump. Where do the rest of the budget increases go? Travel? Paying non-conference opponents to come to Fargo?
Where does the money come from? Yes, that's the question. Is lobbying non-alumni with deep pockets an option? Remembering the way Eddie Schultz humped the collective legs of that program, it's clear you don't need to be an alumnus to fall in love with an institution. There's got to be another Boone Pickens out there who loves a winner but went to community college.

[tony]

Yes, I am happy. What does national exposure really do for the Bison? It might help get a few recruits and that's about it. Do you think many people outside of Iowa follow the Hawkeyes or Cyclones? I doubt there are many Gopher fans outside of Minnesota other than former Minnesotans.

Not trying to make an argument against FBS with this, but I'd like to see a list of G5 teams that get more exposure than NDSU.

Like you are saying, regional exposure is much more important. Maybe being G5 would help regionally because then NDSU could start getting Big12 and Big10 games again. There is no guarantee that NDSU is going to win nearly as much as an FBS school. One reason: right now NDSU is getting players that want to win games and losing guys who value the FBS label over being part of that (note: I'm talking about NDSU v other G5 teams) - NDSU is not going to win a bunch of recruiting battles over Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin as a G5 school.

[Christopher Moen]

NDSU is not going to win a bunch of recruiting battles over Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin as a G5 school.

I agree, that will only happen if NDSU becomes a P5 school, and we're missing a few big pieces to solve that puzzle currently.

In regards to this thread, instead of creating another one that has been argued ad nauseam here and never settled, go and talk to those that make the decisions. They're smart people and are aware being prepared for the future.

[ChuckYufarley]

Okay, so I've spent some time reading previous threads and doing a little more digging, and it's clear that moving up would be a monumental feat. It's a shame how much resistance there would be in Bismarck. Stadium debates have become the norm around the country over the last 20 years though, so there should be ample resources out there to research the kinds of creative financing that built some of those new venues.

Geography and television numbers also make it a tough sell, and but not out of the question. Along with an anticipated P5/G5 split, the means by which people will be watching televised sports a decade from now might look very different than the model we've grown accustomed to since the advent of cable. 20 years ago who would have thought that landlines and long distance charges would become a thing of the past? 15 years ago the idea of individual conference networks would have seemed far fetched. Broadband television and per channel subscriptions could end up working in favor of traditionally small market schools. But just like an FBS split, that's pure theory.

So what does that leave? In a perfect world I think a G5/FCS merger with a 16 or more team playoff would be a perfect fit for NDSU, considering there's really no chance to worm their way into the P5. The CFP is in place for another 10 years though, so I don't see any big shake-ups in the FBS solely for the benefit of the have-nots any time soon. I could understand being content to wait it out if there were assurances that the G5/FCS merge will happen. Trouble is, there aren't. Do you wait it out and risk sinking back into the anonymity that was Division II? Or forge ahead and take your lumps with a chance of raising the program's stature to even greater levels? It's not like anyone is going to take away those 13 trophies.

Hey, with the steady increase in ESPN love for the Bison, adding three more high profile games before taking on the Ducks and continuing to run the table might just result in an Irish-esque exclusive deal with the boys from Bristol. Have Thundar's publicist get him a SportCenter promo and just watch the deals roll in.

[bisonp]

I'll just drop this here.

Here's how competitive North Dakota State could be in the Big Ten West (http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/9/20/12982692/ndsu-bison-big-ten-conference)

:hide:

[El_Chapo]

I'll just drop this here.

Here's how competitive North Dakota State could be in the Big Ten West (http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/9/20/12982692/ndsu-bison-big-ten-conference)

:hide:

Fargo is Neilson TV market 115 so that argument that Fargo is not below 200 is IDIOTIC!!


Great Article.

Petition/Solicit the Mountain West for membership, play in Fargodome while building a $150 million, 45000 seat semi enclosed stadium ON CAMPUS where the practice fields are.

NDSU builds & owns it and makes ALL THE REVENUE.

Scheels, Sanford, Microsoft, Bobcat each pay $25 Million over 25 years for a $100 Million investment, Each company gets a Corner of the stadium for 25 years to showcase their products, employee events, etc.
NDSU raises $50 Million

and with THAT you enter the BIG 12.

[NDSUstudent]

ESPN actually had a segment today with one of their talking heads saying any FBS conference should add NDSU, first time I've seen that. The guy was all in.

[VirginiaBison]

Well for every argument for moving "up" to FBS, there are a lot of folks considering moving "down".... like Wyoming: http://trib.com/sports/college/wyoming/football/fb-like-recent-foe-eastern-michigan-wyoming-facing-questions-about/article_e891f8e9-25b7-559f-98f4-80b84054471f.html

and http://www.wyonation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14976&sid=1dfa15d5b24c701100a20046d2e91fd0

[56BISON73]

Fargo is Neilson TV market 115 so that argument that Fargo is not below 200 is IDIOTIC!!


Great Article.

Petition/Solicit the Mountain West for membership, play in Fargodome while building a $150 million, 45000 seat semi enclosed stadium ON CAMPUS where the practice fields are.

NDSU builds & owns it and makes ALL THE REVENUE.

Scheels, Sanford, Microsoft, Bobcat each pay $25 Million over 25 years for a $100 Million investment, Each company gets a Corner of the stadium for 25 years to showcase their products, employee events, etc.
NDSU raises $50 Million

and with THAT you enter the BIG 12.

Question???? Doesnt the Big 12 have something to say about who joins their league? I mean dont you have to be invited? Just wondering???

[Bisonguy]

Question???? Doesnt the Big 12 have something to say about who joins their league? I mean dont you have to be invited? Just wondering???

You just have to pump them up! Start emailing their ADs and prez's!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[56BISON73]

You just have to pump them up! Start emailing their ADs and prez's!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I will leave the pumping to him.:biggrin:

[Buffalo.Rider]

Saw this article today. This, it seems to me, is a pretty good argument for NDSU to stay put. Sometimes the compromises one needs to make to hang with the popular crowd - in this context, a move up to FBS - ain't worth the price to be there. One can lose their identity, what has made them great, etc.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2677700-cheat-or-go-home-inside-the-dysfunctional-hell-of-becoming-a-cfb-coach?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral#

[FCS Nation]

Saw this article today. This, it seems to me, is a pretty good argument for NDSU to stay put. Sometimes the compromises one needs to make to hang with the popular crowd - in this context, a move up to FBS - ain't worth the price to be there. One can lose their identity, what has made them great, etc.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2677700-cheat-or-go-home-inside-the-dysfunctional-hell-of-becoming-a-cfb-coach?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral#

WOW! That is one hell of an article.

[56BISON73]

WOW! That is one hell of an article.

Not really shocking at all. Leo Nomellini who played for MN in college and then the 49ers once said when he was asked what the difference was going to be between college and the pros. He said the pay cut.

[BisonBacker]

Saw this on the GSU Fans board regarding their move up. Very interesting read. Both sides of the debate here should take some time to read through that thread. Great comments and insight from someone who's been there and done it. If this has already been posted so be it I didn't go looking.

http://www.gsufans.com/tsc/showthread.php?35059-Full-Circle-1AA-(FCS)-or-FBS&highlight=ndsu


Saw this comment in that thread
"Like Vandy, IOWA ST, Kansas, Kansas St when they dont hit on JUCOS, ILL, Wake, Duke, Boston College. P5 does not automatically make you good or better. Honestly what is the enjoyment of constantly playing teams the size of high schools with high school facilities and that has half the talent you have 9 out of 11 times a year at best. You dont see another interesting team until the semi's if you are lucky. I mean is winning no matter who the teams are that important vs. proving yourself on a national stage?

Again one thing the FCS zealots cant ever answer if it is just about winning and being at the top of your division of football why just drop to the FCS why not DIV II it would even be easier and it really would not matter between the two."

[thundarsdaddy]

I hate this discussion, but here goes, as it is fair to talk about. I have a brother who lives near Milwaukee, and 4 of his 5 kids went to Madison, so they are huge Badger fans. since you asked about P-5 teams, this is one for sure. If the Badgers make the Rose Bowl, they get a good following to Bowl Games, or obviously if they get to the BCS playoffs. But last year, Wis played USC in the Holiday Bowl in San Diego in Qualcom Stadium which holds 70,000+..attendance was 48,000, mostly USC fans. Year before Wis played Auburn in the Outback bowl, in Tampa, stadium holds 65,000, attendance was 44,000...mostly Auburn fans. Jan of 2014, Wis played South Carolina in the Capital One bowl, in Orlando, again a 65,000 seat stadium...attendance was 56,000, mostly SC fans. And Wisconsin is known for having a rabid fan base that travels well.
The point is...how many true Bison fans will go as often as they can? Or will they start weeding out the lesser non-important bowls, and only go if the Bison make the playoffs?

Even in that dream world, of NDSU making it onto a P-5 conference, at what point do people just start staying home? We watch this year as some fans start talking about the fact that the Bison arent "blowing opponents away" every game?

You know those first few Bowl games will have tons of Bison fans wanting to go? But even Wisconsin has found that playing in a lesser bowl games, means not getting rid of all the available tickets, simply adding to the cost of going to that Bowl Game, where most teams these days claim to lose money in most cases?

I say stay right where we are until the FBS figures out where their direction lies!

[bisonaudit]

Saw this on the GSU Fans board regarding their move up. Very interesting read. Both sides of the debate here should take some time to read through that thread. Great comments and insight from someone who's been there and done it. If this has already been posted so be it I didn't go looking.

http://www.gsufans.com/tsc/showthread.php?35059-Full-Circle-1AA-(FCS)-or-FBS&highlight=ndsu


Saw this comment in that thread
"Like Vandy, IOWA ST, Kansas, Kansas St when they dont hit on JUCOS, ILL, Wake, Duke, Boston College. P5 does not automatically make you good or better. Honestly what is the enjoyment of constantly playing teams the size of high schools with high school facilities and that has half the talent you have 9 out of 11 times a year at best. You dont see another interesting team until the semi's if you are lucky. I mean is winning no matter who the teams are that important vs. proving yourself on a national stage?

Again one thing the FCS zealots cant ever answer if it is just about winning and being at the top of your division of football why just drop to the FCS why not DIV II it would even be easier and it really would not matter between the two."

It's not just about winning. It's about cost benefit. G5 is much more expensive and there's no benefit to the program. There's plenty of benefit for administrators, but there's no benefit for the program.

[BisonBacker]

It's not just about winning. It's about cost benefit. G5 is much more expensive and there's no benefit to the program. There's plenty of benefit for administrators, but there's no benefit for the program.

You obviously didn't read that thread.

[bisonaudit]

You obviously didn't read that thread.

I trudged through the first 4 pages. If you want to point me to something in the next 15 that addresses how much financial support they're getting from the state and their students in order to compete for management talent in a division that isn't any better than the one we're in now, or how we're magically going to fit more fans into an already perpetually sold out FargoDome as that seems to be one of their major arguments in favor of competing in the Sun Belt, I'd appreciate it.

[No_Skill]

Saw this on the GSU Fans board regarding their move up. Very interesting read. Both sides of the debate here should take some time to read through that thread. Great comments and insight from someone who's been there and done it. If this has already been posted so be it I didn't go looking.

http://www.gsufans.com/tsc/showthread.php?35059-Full-Circle-1AA-(FCS)-or-FBS&highlight=ndsu


Saw this comment in that thread
"Like Vandy, IOWA ST, Kansas, Kansas St when they dont hit on JUCOS, ILL, Wake, Duke, Boston College. P5 does not automatically make you good or better. Honestly what is the enjoyment of constantly playing teams the size of high schools with high school facilities and that has half the talent you have 9 out of 11 times a year at best. You dont see another interesting team until the semi's if you are lucky. I mean is winning no matter who the teams are that important vs. proving yourself on a national stage?

Again one thing the FCS zealots cant ever answer if it is just about winning and being at the top of your division of football why just drop to the FCS why not DIV II it would even be easier and it really would not matter between the two."

Being full D1 in the other sports has a lot to do with it. I really like D1 basketball and that would go away if we dropped.

[89MTBISON]

I trudged through the first 4 pages. If you want to point me to something in the next 15 that addresses how much financial support their getting from the state and their students in order to compete for management talent in a division that isn't any better than the one we're in now, or how we're magically going to fit more fans into an already perpetually sold out FargoDome as that seems to be one of their major arguments in favor of competing in the Sun Belt, I'd appreciate it.
:judges::judges::judges:

[BisonFan02]

The Sunbelt would be a pretty good FCS league.

[Hammerhead]

The MAC also belongs in the FCS.

[td577]

The MAC also belongs in the FCS.

There is a need for a true second tier with mid-major football. Sure that spells out FCS but you have to wait for the G5 schools to come up with that on their own.

[ByeSonBusiness]

The MAC also belongs in the FCS.

I bet PJ Fleck would rather row the boat to a fcs game in Frisco than to a New Years bowl game.

[td577]

I bet PJ Fleck would rather row the boat to a fcs game in Frisco than to a New Years bowl game.

That is how the P5 conferences will keep the G5 conferences both interested in being the go to place for scheduling and keeping them in their place by throwing them a bone. WMU, even with their unblemished record, might not be the school rowing their way to the Cotton Bowl, either. They still need help by way of Temple over Navy.

I honestly don't know what the public reception of a G5/select FCS tier playoff system would go? I just don't know if the G5 conferences are maximizing their potential staying where they are at with one school being crowned the mid-major champion by rankings, getting to a New Year's 6 bowl, and drawing the 5th runner up to the CFP. It is all about the money and not football. Maybe there is a way it can be about both.

[ByeSonBusiness]

That is how the P5 conferences will keep the G5 conferences both interested in being the go to place for scheduling and keeping them in their place by throwing them a bone. WMU, even with their unblemished record, might not be the school rowing their way to the Cotton Bowl, either. They still need help by way of Temple over Navy.

I honestly don't know what the public reception of a G5/select FCS tier playoff system would go? I just don't know if the G5 conferences are maximizing their potential staying where they are at with one school being crowned the mid-major champion by rankings, getting to a New Year's 6 bowl, and drawing the 5th runner up to the CFP. It is all about the money and not football. Maybe there is a way it can be about both.

Fair argument.

I don't think WMU could complain about Navy potentially being in front of them. Getting a shot at a big dog (ala Utah and Boise) and winning is IMO bigger than anything the FCS can provide. How many folks remember Boise beating TCU in the 2009 Fiesta Bowl? Nobody. They remember the Oklahoma win.

[SC_TX]

Coastal going to FBS in a state with 2 major programs and not a huge fanbase. Football not even their main sport. And yet NDSU can't make the move?

[56BISON73]

Coastal going to FBS in a state with 2 major programs and not a huge fanbase. Football not even their main sport. And yet NDSU can't make the move?

Yawn. Weve been down this road before.

[Bison03]

At the current stste of college football, NDSU is not going FBS. Grt that through you dreamers heads. For those who think we can, answer these questions for me.

1. What conference would invite NDSU with their small media market?
2. Who pays for an athletic budget thet would need to be 40 million+ a year?
3. Who pays for a new stadium at 100 million + ?

There are many more reasons not to go FBS. These are the main 3. Maybe it will start raining money...I dont know. Plus, who wants to get punped up for a semi final game for a chance to play for another national championship when we could be getting pumped up for a trip to the Raycom Media Camellia Bowl, right?

[SC_TX]

Sure. Staying in FCS is accepting that this is the best NDSU football can and will EVER be. Now every year we don't win a national title is a disappointment. Either take advantage now and get bigger or just accept that from here on out everything is downhill

[Kingslayer]

Sure. Staying in FCS is accepting that this is the best NDSU football can and will EVER be. Now every year we don't win a national title is a disappointment. Either take advantage now and get bigger or just accept that from here on out everything is downhill

Good point...every year we keep this streak going just hammers home even more that we need to make the move. Honestly I think in 10-15 years we will be FBS.

[Christopher Moen]

Sure. Staying in FCS is accepting that this is the best NDSU football can and will EVER be. Now every year we don't win a national title is a disappointment. Either take advantage now and get bigger or just accept that from here on out everything is downhill

There's a huge difference between accepting what the Bison are right now in football and understanding the finances and logistics to move up.

There is absolutely no way NDSU can succeed moving up without a conference invitation and the money needed to fund the move. Heck, right now, they're barely able to afford being FCS and having FCOA for all sports.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Coastal going to FBS in a state with 2 major programs and not a huge fanbase. Football not even their main sport. And yet NDSU can't make the move?

You do realize they got a sugar daddy for a coach,

[BYZEN]

There's a huge difference between accepting what the Bison are right now in football and understanding the finances and logistics to move up.

There is absolutely no way NDSU can succeed moving up without a conference invitation and the money needed to fund the move. Heck, right now, they're barely able to afford being FCS and having FCOA for all sports.

Don't forget all the folks in Bismarck cutting budgets and some 600 jobs, "mostly in higher education."

[CAS4127]

Sure. Staying in FCS is accepting that this is the best NDSU football can and will EVER be. Now every year we don't win a national title is a disappointment. Either take advantage now and get bigger or just accept that from here on out everything is downhill

How much, if any, do your donate currently to Team Makers? And don't lie! That asked, how much or more is your big mouth willing to donate for move to FBS. Again, don't lie.

Biaaaaatch!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christopher Moen]

How much, if any, do your donate currently to Team Makers? And don't lie! That asked, how much or more is your big mouth willing to donate for move to FBS. Again, don't lie.

Biaaaaatch!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Between Team Makers and the Bison Excellent Athletic Fund, I donate about $500 per year. Sadly, that is chump change compare to what NDSU will need from fans/alumni to move up. And thats "IF" they got an invitation from a FBS conference.

[CAS4127]

Between Team Makers and the Bison Excellent Athletic Fund, I donate about $500 per year. Sadly, that is chump change compare to what NDSU will need from fans/alumni to move up. And thats "IF" they got an invitation from a FBS conference.

At least you donate what you can. My bet is the FBS big mouths/small brains guys here don't even donate that much. They just want others to support. Typical of this day and age.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vet70]

Posters can beat the FBS drum all they want. It isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[Christopher Moen]

At least you donate what you can. My bet is the FBS big mouths/small brains guys here don't even donate that much. They just want others to support. Typical of this day and age.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fortunately for me, I have the benefit of working in athletics and see everyday how hard it is to work on a low budget. I find it absolutely amazing how much NDSU does with so little (cash-wise).

[DORMIE]

I agree with Charlie and Christopher Moen, CS_TX. Talk is cheap, but it takes a lot of money to buy whiskey. I've been raising money for Teammakers for over 30 years. I have 1 seat on the 35 for $1300 and it will be $1400 next year. Many people in Fargo actually like the situation we are in with actually playing for a championship. Not having to worry with the bull shit that comes with the entitled athletes in FBS is actually refreshing. Having all the answers but no way to get there just doesn't work in our market. FYO the COA for 194 full rides is $659,600.00.

[OrygunBison]

How much, if any, do your donate currently to Team Makers? And don't lie! That asked, how much or more is your big mouth willing to donate for move to FBS. Again, don't lie.

Biaaaaatch!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not currently a TM. (Sorry.) It is partly because of my physical proximity and my ability to personally attend. (I know, silly.) I already invest a decent amount of money to attend the 3-4 games I attend per year.

That said, NDSU going FBS would definitely change my opinion. FBS for NDSU would change my opinion/decision. The program would need me. Currently, it doesn't.

While many of you don't share my perspective, I am certain that I am not alone.

[td577]

We stay the course and let college football figure out what it's identity will be. I have said it so many times and will say it again. It would be an absolute waste of money and time to go FBS now. We move into the second tier when it defines itself, which it will. Eventually the G5 conferences will have to figure out a way to brand themselves as legitimate football past the top 2 or 3 programs. They have to become the new FCS with the top programs from the FCS.

[MAKBison]

At least you donate what you can. My bet is the FBS big mouths/small brains guys here don't even donate that much. They just want others to support. Typical of this day and age.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Speak for yourself

[MAKBison]

We stay the course and let college football figure out what it's identity will be. I have said it so many times and will say it again. It would be an absolute waste of money and time to go FBS now. We move into the second tier when it defines itself, which it will. Eventually the G5 conferences will have to figure out a way to brand themselves as legitimate football past the top 2 or 3 programs. They have to become the new FCS with the top programs from the FCS.

That is great for the immediate future, but not the long term. They way this is going we might be dead and gone by the time they figure it out. I am afraid by then we will have seen too many of the top team's jump. There also has to be a trigger point for when the FCS becomes too watered down.

[CAS4127]

Speak for yourself

Trust me, I am! I donate enough that it actually hurts a bit, especially when I'm saving for collage for my little girl. How about your ass?? C'mon??!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MAKBison]

Trust me, I am! I donate enough that it actually hurts a bit, especially when I'm saving for collage for my little girl. How about your ass?? C'mon??!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My name is listed...it's not in the first or the last group. My point, the FBS crowd has just as many valid points as the stay FCS crowd...both groups donate. Calling people out based on how much they donate as if that determines the validity of their voice is just bad form. It also reeks a bit about what I dislike about some TM...thinking the are elite.

[CAS4127]

My name is listed...it's not in the first or the last group. My point, the FBS crowd has just as many valid points as the stay FCS crowd...both groups donate. Calling people out based on how much they donate as if that determines the validity of their voice is just bad form.

No it's not. Gotta pay to play. That's my biggest issue with you/FBS crowd. You expect others to pay for a benefit to you. That's bullshit. Are you willing to sacrifice personally, or just ride coat tails to stroke your ego and be able to shout "WE ARE FBS"?! Please tell!!??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MAKBison]

No it's not. Gotta pay to play. That's my biggest issue with you/FBS crowd. You expect others to pay for a benefit to you. That's bullshit. Are you willing to sacrifice personally, or just ride coat tails to stroke your ego and be able to shout "WE ARE FBS"?! Please tell!!??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No that is your BS attempt to try and bully folks into thinking your right...your method is not! They guy who donates $1 has just as much right to their opinions as the guy who donated $1K. You coming on her and berating those who would like to see NDSU jump is as petty now just as it was back in the DII days. Funny how in any other thread you say folks are entitled to their opinions but on this its put the $ up.

[CAS4127]

Know that is your BS attempt to try and bully folks into thinking your right

Dead wrong. I've never negated FBS other than $$$ issues. That's where the problem lies.

And when did having a strong position become bullying? Do you need a safe place, or are you just capitulating because you know you wouldn't actually sacrifice personally to support a move up?

Bottom line? If we had the $$ and conference to move up, I'd support it, because this would be the right time. The gravemen of the issue are those very two things. Plus, I abhor people who say "let's do this or that" but then stand back and watch without willingness or balls to join in.

And I never said people aren't entitled to their opinions. I also believe me/others are entitled to disagree. You have a problem with me doing so and stating mine. I don't with you. I just disagree. Can't help if you feel threatened by that. I don't with you disagreeing with me. Is what it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MAKBison]

Dead wrong. I've never negated FBS other than $$$ issues. That's where the problem lies.

And when did having a strong position become bullying? Do you need a safe place, or are you just capitulating because you know you wouldn't actually sacrifice personally to support a move up?

Bottom line? If we had the $$ and conference to move up, I'd support it, because this would be the right time. The gravemen of the issue are those very two things. Plus, I abhor people who say "let's do this or that" but then stand back and watch without willingness or balls to join in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't pull that safe place bullshit on me. Strong opinions are fine; however, your argument is what's lacking. There are plenty of valid arguments to use but attacking someone based on how much they give or can give is well...you can do better than that.

Of course, it is about funding I support jumping on some levels and staying on others.

Not that its any of your business, but based on my earnings I give a set percentage of my annual income. Some goes to NDSU some goes to other things. I also donate my time and I sit on two different corporations giving committees. That's all my choice, One thing you will never see me do is questions someone elses giving.....that's not my or your place.

[CAS4127]

Don't pull that safe place bullshit on me. Strong opinions are fine; however, your argument is what's lacking. There are plenty of valid arguments to use but attcking somone based on how much they give or can give is chickenshit.

Lol! No it's not. It's a legit question and I wasn't attacking, I was asking and wanted an answer. Still haven't received one. Odd??!!

You don't get better/nice stuff for free, although some think they deserve to. To be candid, I'm not sure I could or would be willing to give more than what I do in order to do my part in helping the move. Not a bit ashamed to say it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MAKBison]

Lol! No it's not. It's a legit question and I wasn't attacking, I was asking and wanted an answer. Still haven't received one. Odd??!!

You don't get better/nice stuff for free, although some think they deserve to. To be candid, I'm not sure I could or would be willing to give more than what I do in order to do my part in helping the move. Not a bit ashamed to say it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, it is......Not that its any of your business, but based on my earnings I give a set percentage of my annual income. Some goes to NDSU some goes to other things. I also donate my time and I sit on two different corporations giving committees. That's all my choice, One thing you will never see me do is questions someone else giving.....that's not my or your place.


As to attacking sure you do.....you attack based on what you wrote. BTW I don't feel threatened by you If I did I would not call you out. Wich is what I did am doing!

[CAS4127]

Yeah, it is......Not that its any of your business, but based on my earnings I give a set percentage of my annual income. Some goes to NDSU some goes to other things. I also donate my time and I sit on two different corporations giving committees. That's all my choice, One thing you will never see me do is questions someone else giving.....that's not my or your place.

On the latter point, I disagree. If you want something of value to you, be ready to pay, whether $$-wise or otherwise. Don't see that with majority of current FBS mouths. Just reality. And if they aren't ready to pay up, those lips should move less, IMO. Yours is apparently different, and that's ok. I don't need a safe place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kingslayer]

We stay the course and let college football figure out what it's identity will be. I have said it so many times and will say it again. It would be an absolute waste of money and time to go FBS now. We move into the second tier when it defines itself, which it will. Eventually the G5 conferences will have to figure out a way to brand themselves as legitimate football past the top 2 or 3 programs. They have to become the new FCS with the top programs from the FCS.

People have been saying this 3 tier bs for the past 5 plus years. It's not going to happen imo. Maybe when I'm dead 70 years from now..

[MAKBison]

On the latter point, I disagree. If you want something of value to you, be ready to pay, whether $$-wise or otherwise. Don't see that with majority of current FBS mouths. Just reality. And if they aren't ready to pay up, those lips should move less, IMO. Yours is apparently different, and that's ok. I don't need a safe place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cass we are not disagreeing on the premise jumping will cost a lot more $$$. We agree. That is not my bitch with you on this. My bitch is with you is
1) suggesting that those that want to jump are not willing to put more $ in. You don't know that, plus there is a valid argument about exposure., tv contracts creating more $$$ blah blah blah.....I Don't want to get into it....there are valid arguments on both sides of those discussions.

2) Suggesting just because one thinks we should jump that they are required to put more in. And, if they can't, they are no longer allowed to express or have the FBS jump opinion. I fundamentally disagree with that.

[td577]

While I am against a move now, I do think it is kind of an empty ultimatum to say pay up or shut up about moving up. It isn't like there is a special bucket for FBS only funds. So one increases their giving now, or isn't like that money is going to be spent on any FBS move without a transparent plan in place. So without an institutional promise further giving will result in pushing football towards FBS, why would someone who wants FBS as a final goal blindly contribute more money? The last 2 years had seen a $1m increase each year in donations yet we are no closer to any shared plan. It wouldn't be a stretch to say those funds are not going to be spent on a move.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[CAS4127]

Cass we are not disagreeing on the premise jumping will cost alot more $$$. We agree. That is not my bitch with you on this. My bitch is with you is
1) suggesting those that want to jump are not willing to put more $ in more. You don't know that, plus there is a valid argument about exposure., tv contracts blah blah blah.....I Don't want to get into it.
2) Suggesting just because one think we should jump that they are required to put more in and if they can't they are no longer allowed to express or have that opinion. I fundamentally disagree with that.

They can have their opinion, I just disagree. They can continue to pay lip service to their desires/wants, but that's not gonna keep me from stating my position. Last I checked, the 1st Amendment is generally applicable, and I'm going with that. Who is it that keeps bringing this topic up btw? If they do, shouldn't they expect (probably want) a debate! JFC already!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Madisonmen]

I just saw today the Idaho Vandals are going from FBS back to FCS next year.......even after an 8 win season and an upcoming Bowl! AD said "it wasn't sustainable". Their coach Petrino refused to weigh in on the subject when interviewed.

[MAKBison]

They can have their opinion, I just disagree. They can continue to pay lip service to their desires/wants, but that's not gonna keep me from stating my position. Last I checked, the 1st Amendment is generally applicable, and I'm going with that. Who is it that keeps bringing this topic up btw? If they do, shouldn't they expect (probably want) a debate! JFC already!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A debate would be welcome, demanding to know how much they donate and or if they are willing to increase that amount and by how much.... not so much. I would agree that pretty much shuts any chance of debate down. Matter of fact I would say its pretty much a bully tactic used to shut the other person up....wait, I already did say that :-)

[CAS4127]

While I am against a move now, I do think it is kind of an empty ultimatum to say pay up or shut up about moving up. It isn't like there is a special bucket for FBS only funds. So one increases their giving now, or isn't like that money is going to be spent on any FBS move without a transparent plan in place. So without an institutional promise further giving will result in pushing football towards FBS, why would someone who wants FBS as a final goal blindly contribute more money? The last 2 years had seen a $1m increase each year in donations yet we are no closer to any shared plan. It wouldn't be a stretch to say those funds are not going to be spent on a move.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

An NDSU stated position to move up would require $$ commitment, or it will never happen. I'm actually seeing some things that suggest something along those lines is in the mix. Subtle so far, but moving in the direction of NDSU asking for input and $$--kind of a grass roots deal at the moment, but it seems to be happening. So, get ready IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El_Chapo]

At the current stste of college football, NDSU is not going FBS. Grt that through you dreamers heads. For those who think we can, answer these questions for me.

1. What conference would invite NDSU with their small media market?
2. Who pays for an athletic budget thet would need to be 40 million+ a year?
3. Who pays for a new stadium at 100 million + ?

There are many more reasons not to go FBS. These are the main 3. Maybe it will start raining money...I dont know. Plus, who wants to get punped up for a semi final game for a chance to play for another national championship when we could be getting pumped up for a trip to the Raycom Media Camellia Bowl, right?
Mountain west would invite us if NDSU admin asked them to (hint WE HAVENT ASKED!!)
Having a d1 fundraiser and not d2 guy would be needed. NDSU is wasting money ll. new $125 million stadium equals ---- 4 major $25mil over 25 years businesses. Each can have a dam corner of the stadium NDSU raises other $25 mil and controls all of it!!! , b

[MAKBison]

An NDSU stated position to move up would require $$ commitment, or it will never happen. I'm actually seeing some things that suggest something along those lines is in the mix. Subtle so far, but moving in the direction of NDSU asking for input and $$--kind of a grass roots deal at the moment, but it seems to be happening. So, get ready IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I cant say they name ( I know I know I hate that as well) But, an acquaintance of mine (actually I know their adult children) is a very large donor. The kind that gets to ride on the team's charter plan whenever they want. Anyway, I can say the FBS convo has come up. at least according to their kids.

[CAS4127]

I cant say they name ( I know I know I hate that as well) But, an acquaintance of mine (actually I know their adult children) is a very large donor. The kind that gets to ride on the team's charter plan whenever they want. Anyway, I can say the FBS convo has come up. at least according to their kids.

I don't doubt that at all. The situation I'm in and experiencing hasn't actually broached the FBS move yet, but, IMO and what I'm seeing/feeling, NDSU is gradually working the group I'm talking about toward that end/in that direction. And it's a powerful/major group with some $$. Things are happening in and for it via NDSU efforts that have not been there there before, so something is up. And it's not a bad thing, and the effort being brought by NDSU is respectable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1993bison]

Fortunately for me, I have the benefit of working in athletics and see everyday how hard it is to work on a low budget. I find it absolutely amazing how much NDSU does with so little (cash-wise).
Would be interesting to see how many dollars each football program spends per Sagarin point earned.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[MAKBison]

I don't doubt that at all. The situation I'm in and experiencing hasn't actually broached the FBS move yet, but, IMO and what I'm seeing/feeling, NDSU is gradually working the group I'm talking about toward that end/in that direction. And it's a powerful/major group with some $$. Things are happening in and for it via NDSU efforts that have not been there there before, so something is up. And it's not a bad thing, and the effort being brought by NDSU is respectable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that is all that most want. I think most pro-FBS folks know how great NDSU is and hate it when people outside of NDSU can't see past the FCS title. Sure, there are some dickheads that just want to jump for their own personal ammusment, and yes they are assholes.

[1993bison]

I'm not currently a TM. (Sorry.) It is partly because of my physical proximity and my ability to personally attend. (I know, silly.) I already invest a decent amount of money to attend the 3-4 games I attend per year.

That said, NDSU going FBS would definitely change my opinion. FBS for NDSU would change my opinion/decision. The program would need me. Currently, it doesn't.

While many of you don't share my perspective, I am certain that I am not alone.
Good points. I know many folks who would be glad to get season tickets and pay the Team Maker dues but can't so they don't. I'd like to see how many potential new season tickets could be sold IF they were available with a new stadium.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[56BISON73]

I don't doubt that at all. The situation I'm in and experiencing hasn't actually broached the FBS move yet, but, IMO and what I'm seeing/feeling, NDSU is gradually working the group I'm talking about toward that end/in that direction. And it's a powerful/major group with some $$. Things are happening in and for it via NDSU efforts that have not been there there before, so something is up. And it's not a bad thing, and the effort being brought by NDSU is respectable.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its all part of the process to be ready if and or when the opportunity arises. GT and ML have both alluded to this.

[MAKBison]

Its all part of the process to be ready if and or when the opportunity arises. GT and ML have both alluded to this.

I agree with what TD stated.....when the split happens

Or
If FCS becomes too watered down or
if by some magic a P5 said come in folks.

Me thinks the top 2 are they most likely :)

[CAS4127]

Its all part of the process to be ready if and or when the opportunity arises. GT and ML have both alluded to this.

Agreed, and I believe they are involved in this, as it's likely a part (however small or big) to get us positioned when the time comes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[56BISON73]

I agree with what TD stated.....when the split happens

Or
If FCS becomes too watered down or
if by some magic a P5 said come in folks.

Me thinks the top 2 are they most likely :)

Or the G5 gets tired of the crumbs the P5 tosses them, realigns and does their own championship.

[MAKBison]

Agreed, and I believe they are involved in this, as it's likely a part (however small or big) to get us positioned when the time comes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed...I am out! Weds are nothing but meetings for me. I freaking hate Wed!

[ByeSonBusiness]

I just saw today the Idaho Vandals are going from FBS back to FCS next year.......even after an 8 win season and an upcoming Bowl! AD said "it wasn't sustainable". Their coach Petrino refused to weigh in on the subject when interviewed.

They are being kicked out of their conference. That's why they are leaving.

[SC_TX]

Or the G5 gets tired of the crumbs the P5 tosses them, realigns and does their own championship.

This is true. 10-2 Gof5 teams don't sniff the poll (USF) while 8-4 power 5 teams can be ranked 14th. (Auburn)

[SC_TX]

I think that is all that most want. I think most pro-FBS folks know how great NDSU is and hate it when people outside of NDSU can't see past the FCS title. Sure, there are some dickheads that just want to jump for their own personal ammusment, and yes they are assholes.

There are some things the FCS4ever crowd ignores. They always bring up the playoffs vs bowl game debate but they fail to take into account how much more value an FBS regular season would have. A chance to host teams like N.Illinois, BYU or a 2 for 1 with Minnesota, Kansas, Illinois, Nebraska etc. Imagine one of those coming to Fargo to play.

Plus FBS teams just get more exposure in general. This may sound inconsequential but even big time ESPN talking heads mentioning Group of 5 teams is valuable. NDSU has only received attention because of the unmatched run of titles.

[Milkman]

I'd love to see a poll of those who are FCS4ever. In fact we could have a poll for FCS4EVR, FBS only when it is absolutely perfect, fbs when the rewards out way the risks, fbs fast tracked and fbs even if it potentially sinks the University.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Milkman]

If anyone cares I'd vote 3 and full disclosure not a member of team makers due to current financial situation.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[56BISON73]

I'd love to see a poll of those who are FCS4ever. In fact we could have a poll for FCS4EVR, FBS only when it is absolutely perfect, fbs when the rewards out way the risks, fbs fast tracked and fbs even if it potentially sinks the University.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Already had a few of those polls over the years.

[56BISON73]

There are some things the FCS4ever crowd ignores. They always bring up the playoffs vs bowl game debate but they fail to take into account how much more value an FBS regular season would have. A chance to host teams like N.Illinois, BYU or a 2 for 1 with Minnesota, Kansas, Illinois, Nebraska etc. Imagine one of those coming to Fargo to play.

Plus FBS teams just get more exposure in general. This may sound inconsequential but even big time ESPN talking heads mentioning Group of 5 teams is valuable. NDSU has only received attention because of the unmatched run of titles.

Thats all been brought up before.

[Milkman]

Already had a few of those polls over the years.
Kind of figured and maybe half remembered. Also assuming the FCS4EVR and FBSatthefalloftheuniversity crowds are really only a tiny percent of the population. Guess that's my point

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Madisonmen]

This all sounds very familiar....... JMU is going through all of the same discussions now. We were a little taken back ( and pissed ) that one of our main rivals, Old Dominion, went to FBS just after a handful of years after even having a football program. If you ever seen our stadium it is odd. 1/2 is the old concrete bleachers and the other 1/2 is a contemporary style.....it was always planned we assumed, to complete the bowl when we move up but when, we don't know.

[TransAmBison]

They guy who donates $1 has just as much right to their opinions as the guy who donated $1K.Strictly speaking, everybody has a right to their own opinion...but some opinions carry more weight. If somebody wants their opinion to matter, a logical way to do this would be to donate more. Somebody who donates $1 will not get much attention. Some of the loudest people on here with the biggest opinions don't donate squat...they just want everybody else to make the sacrifice. Some also just want to troll. With all that said, prices are going up as is. If we would move up, prices will jump significantly.

Too much of the debate on here (not singling you out here MAK...just on my soapbox) is people having to get their opinion out...but not taking the time to digest the other opinions out there. All it takes is one snide comment and the whole discussion is over. Doesn't help the topic has been discussed to death.

As for me, I'm cautious about moving up...but I also see 5 NC's in a row with a legitimate chance at a 6th in a row is beyond ridiculous.

[GRAFTONBISON]

Strictly speaking, everybody has a right to their own opinion...but some opinions carry more weight. If somebody wants their opinion to matter, a logical way to do this would be to donate more. Somebody who donates $1 will not get much attention. Some of the loudest people on here with the biggest opinions don't donate squat...they just want everybody else to make the sacrifice. Some also just want to troll. With all that said, prices are going up as is. If we would move up, prices will jump significantly.

Too much of the debate on here (not singling you out here MAK...just on my soapbox) is people having to get their opinion out...but not taking the time to digest the other opinions out there. All it takes is one snide comment and the whole discussion is over. Doesn't help the topic has been discussed to death.

As for me, I'm cautious about moving up...but I also see 5 NC's in a row with a legitimate chance at a 6th in a row is beyond ridiculous.

Do you remember what you said in reply to my "Awesome game" comment as I walked by you in the tailgating lot immediately after leaving the stadium after the first championship game?

[TransAmBison]

Do you remember what you said in reply to my "Awesome game" comment as I walked by you in the tailgating lot immediately after leaving the stadium after the first championship game?No idea...I'm old. :)

[GRAFTONBISON]

No idea...I'm old. :)


Yes you are :rofl:

I will never forget it. To quote TAB, "That was awesome but I want a dynasty!"

I give you 100% credit for what has happened since then. The coaches and players have nothing on you

[TransAmBison]

Yes you are :rofl:

I will never forget it. To quote TAB, "That was awesome but I want a dynasty!"

I give you 100% credit for what has happened since then. The coaches and players have nothing on youI had my eye on App St...really wanted to somehow top what they did.

[Vet70]

I had my eye on App St...really wanted to somehow top what they did.

Going from a Florida airport years ago when we were transitioning I sat behind some Appy fans on a shuttle. We got to discussing football and after they told me how great their team was I told them they had no idea what was coming down the train tracks Blank stares.

[Hoofbeats]

At the current stste of college football, NDSU is not going FBS. Grt that through you dreamers heads. For those who think we can, answer these questions for me.

1. What conference would invite NDSU with their small media market?
2. Who pays for an athletic budget thet would need to be 40 million+ a year?
3. Who pays for a new stadium at 100 million + ?

There are many more reasons not to go FBS. These are the main 3. Maybe it will start raining money...I dont know. Plus, who wants to get punped up for a semi final game for a chance to play for another national championship when we could be getting pumped up for a trip to the Raycom Media Camellia Bowl, right?


Fifty-five replies later, I see no one has an answer for the cost of a new stadium. Here's one you can use as a comparison:

http://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/local/csu/2016/05/16/update-colorado-state-stadium-construction/84448038/

220 million dollar OPEN AIR stadium having 36,000 seats with room for another 5,000 standing room only attendees. Stadium built on-campus with limited on or near site parking. You can argue that a stadium this size is not needed and the resulting price would be much lower, but any decrease in seating would certainly be off-set by adding a roof. (you do want a roof don't you?) Sitting outside this weekend might, just might, lower the amount of attendance.

Providing you raise the money and I haven't see many if any, ways on exactly how that would be done, what happens to the Fargo Dome? Subtract six if not more home dates, (oh wait, you're going FBS so there's that one bowl game in Lancaster, PA or somewhere) not to mention other including income producing entities for parking and advertising, what happens to the bottom line of the dome? In effect, does it turn into another Alerus Center and the taxpayers pay the shortfall? Sure, I'd look forward to paying for that. If that's going to happen, I think you can count the taxpayers of Fargo out.......paying for a six event per year football stadium out of one pocket and subsidizing another stadium with the other.

Solutions anyone?

[AKBison]

Fifty-five replies later, I see no one has an answer for the cost of a new stadium. Here's one you can use as a comparison:

http://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/local/csu/2016/05/16/update-colorado-state-stadium-construction/84448038/

220 million dollar OPEN AIR stadium having 36,000 seats with room for another 5,000 standing room only attendees. Stadium built on-campus with limited on or near site parking. You can argue that a stadium this size is not needed and the resulting price would be much lower, but any decrease in seating would certainly be off-set by adding a roof. (you do want a roof don't you?) Sitting outside this weekend might, just might, lower the amount of attendance.

Providing you raise the money and I haven't see many if any, ways on exactly how that would be done, what happens to the Fargo Dome? Subtract six if not more home dates, (oh wait, you're going FBS so there's that one bowl game in Lancaster, PA or somewhere) not to mention other including income producing entities for parking and advertising, what happens to the bottom line of the dome? In effect, does it turn into another Alerus Center and the taxpayers pay the shortfall? Sure, I'd look forward to paying for that. If that's going to happen, I think you can count the taxpayers of Fargo out.......paying for a six event per year football stadium out of one pocket and subsidizing another stadium with the other.

Solutions anyone?

I don't have the solutions but man, if all we want is championships we should go back to D2. When has NDSU been content with the Status Quo? Isn't it kind of in our nature to try and push the envelope academically and athletically? From your perspective, we are at the pinnacle.

[Kingslayer]

I don't have the solutions but man, if all we want is championships we should go back to D2. When has NDSU been content with the Status Quo? Isn't it kind of in our nature to try and push the envelope academically and athletically? From your perspective, we are at the pinnacle.

Yes. Yes. And yes.

[bisonaudit]

If wishes were horses...

[1993bison]

This whole topic sounds like a great Masters Thesis topic. It would be fun to be the fbs program that does more with less.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Mr Pep Band]

NDSU plays for CHAMPIONSHIPS, not Garbage Bowls. The five new trophies we have say "NCAA Division 1 National Champion".


One of the following is physically and authoritatively differently from the other two.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/6177174bf73115cbfbdc89954e3546f05eba974e/c=0-288-3456-4896&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/IAGroup/DesMoines/2014/11/17/635518250849204809-483304415.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcegKYpVAAAGvrj.jpg

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/28aa03f6064942445f66747b0c940d47ffea47ee/c=0-42-1602-2176&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2014/07/15/1405452111000-USP-NCAA-FOOTBALL-NATIONAL-CHAMPIONSHIP-TROPHY-UN-65838024.JPG

[SC_TX]

This all sounds very familiar....... JMU is going through all of the same discussions now. We were a little taken back ( and pissed ) that one of our main rivals, Old Dominion, went to FBS just after a handful of years after even having a football program. If you ever seen our stadium it is odd. 1/2 is the old concrete bleachers and the other 1/2 is a contemporary style.....it was always planned we assumed, to complete the bowl when we move up but when, we don't know.

and now Old Dominion will host North Carolina next year and Virginia Tech in 2018.

[NorthernBison]

Properly sized indoor stadium would cost a minimum of $500 million.

Yes, you need a roof as the weather we have now is also quite common in November. If you don't know that you haven't lived here long enough.

Fans won't turn out for cold weather games. Take a look at reserved tailgating tomorrow for reference.

ZERO State money will EVER be spent on a facility and Fargo voters are almost certain to vote down any proposals.

Time to start fundraising.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

I've waffled on the subject through the years, but I have to say the playoffs sure are a lot of fun. I know I would really miss them if we "moved up."

[Grizzled]

Fifty-five replies later, I see no one has an answer for the cost of a new stadium. Here's one you can use as a comparison:

http://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/local/csu/2016/05/16/update-colorado-state-stadium-construction/84448038/

220 million dollar OPEN AIR stadium having 36,000 seats with room for another 5,000 standing room only attendees. Stadium built on-campus with limited on or near site parking. You can argue that a stadium this size is not needed and the resulting price would be much lower, but any decrease in seating would certainly be off-set by adding a roof. (you do want a roof don't you?) Sitting outside this weekend might, just might, lower the amount of attendance.

Providing you raise the money and I haven't see many if any, ways on exactly how that would be done, what happens to the Fargo Dome? Subtract six if not more home dates, (oh wait, you're going FBS so there's that one bowl game in Lancaster, PA or somewhere) not to mention other including income producing entities for parking and advertising, what happens to the bottom line of the dome? In effect, does it turn into another Alerus Center and the taxpayers pay the shortfall? Sure, I'd look forward to paying for that. If that's going to happen, I think you can count the taxpayers of Fargo out.......paying for a six event per year football stadium out of one pocket and subsidizing another stadium with the other.

Solutions anyone?
Don't forget the new stadium would have to compete with the Fargodome for concerts,etc. Taking more revenue. While I could see the Fargo commissioners try and ram rid this through like they do everything else, I don't see the city approving a vote.

[NDSU1980]

At least you donate what you can. My bet is the FBS big mouths/small brains guys here don't even donate that much. They just want others to support. Typical of this day and age.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'd bet that none of the FBS NOW! crowd donate at all. That's why they should just be ignored. I can't believe this idea even keeps coming up.

[DjKyRo]

So we're fighting this Christmas? Alright.

[MNLonghorn10]

The best part of all of this, is that you bozos keep typing the same 4 paragraph posts every time like any of us are going to read it because we know what it says.

While I understand that the mountain peak to climb is tall...it still doesn't change my mind of what division of football ndsu should be playing.

Imagine this....ndsu, a much more seasoned program than western Michigan ever was...hosting boise st to honor it's 2 for 1 contract and the stars align that the winner of this game would have the inside track of a new years 6 bowl.

Amazing.


I also propose we scrap sagarin ratings that involve fbs schools since they have no bearing on the fcs division. Why say ndsu is #37 when they're really #1? Make it sound like it's worth typing out.

Last but not least..donations. the put up or shut up line is tired. Your basic mentality is that if u can't fund a 500 million dollar stadium, to shut the f up...how messed up is that. I do donate. It ain't much. It'll never be much. If you need to brag about how lined your wallet is, you're a douche. The common man can't have a voice unless he's Warren buffet.

[MAKBison]

I'd bet that none of the FBS NOW! crowd donate at all. That's why they should just be ignored. I can't believe this idea even keeps coming up.

Speak for yourself! Why some in the FCS forever crowd thinks it is ok to make mass assumptions about ones donation limit is valid argument is beyond me.

[BisonAccountant44]

I've always been wishy-washy on the whole thing. I'd hate not likely winning another title, but my biggest problem would be the lack of even an opportunity for it.

We likely will never win a D1 men's basketball title, but we're technically playing for it and always have powerball type odds of winning it so it still means something.

With FBS is it's all meaningless. The championship isn't real, at least not according to the NCAA, and isn't realistically available to most competing for it. You've got 120 something teams playing 12 exhibition games to see which 13th exhibition game some of them get to go to. I just don't see the point to it in its current form.

[Vet70]

The best part of all of this, is that you bozos keep typing the same 4 paragraph posts every time like any of us are going to read it because we know what it says.

Actually, both sides keep rehashing the same arguments over and over. And over.

[MAKBison]

NDSU plays for CHAMPIONSHIPS, not Garbage Bowls. The five new trophies we have say "NCAA Division 1 National Champion".


One of the following is physically and authoritatively differently from the other two.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/6177174bf73115cbfbdc89954e3546f05eba974e/c=0-288-3456-4896&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/IAGroup/DesMoines/2014/11/17/635518250849204809-483304415.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcegKYpVAAAGvrj.jpg

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/28aa03f6064942445f66747b0c940d47ffea47ee/c=0-42-1602-2176&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2014/07/15/1405452111000-USP-NCAA-FOOTBALL-NATIONAL-CHAMPIONSHIP-TROPHY-UN-65838024.JPG

And yet its perceived by more than half of football fans as some how less than a bowl

[MAKBison]

I've always been wishy-washy on the whole thing. I'd hate not likely winning another title, but my biggest problem would be the lack of even an opportunity for it.

We likely will never win a D1 men's basketball title, but we're technically playing for it and always have powerball type odds of winning it so it still means something.

With FBS is it's all meaningless. The championship isn't real, at least not according to the NCAA, and isn't realistically available to most competing for it. You've got 120 something teams playing 12 exhibition games to see which 13th exhibition game some of them get to go to. I just don't see the point to it in its current form.

I am with you but if teams keep defecting playing for the FCS championship does not really mean all that much either.

[BisonAccountant44]

I am with you but if teams keep defecting playing for the FCS championship does not really mean all that much either.
Right. Move up and play for nothing or stay put and beat up on the little sisters of the poor. I really don't love either option .

[MNLonghorn10]

Right. Move up and play for nothing or stay put and beat up on the little sisters of the poor. I really don't love either option .

wrong. Little sisters of the poor can hardly afford to be in FCS anymore because P5 schools can no longer schedule them due to SoS hold backs.

really we have a watered down division of MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, southland and 1 ohio valley team.

[natstar1]

Imagine this....ndsu, a much more seasoned program than western Michigan ever was...hosting boise st to honor it's 2 for 1 contract and the stars align that the winner of this game would have the inside track of a new years 6 bowl.

I know others have a different opinion but this doesn't excite me. I don't even get the excitement for the big bowl games unless it's part of the playoff.

[BisonAccountant44]

wrong. Little sisters of the poor can hardly afford to be in FCS anymore because P5 schools can no longer schedule them due to SoS hold backs.

really we have a watered down division of MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, southland and 1 ohio valley team.

You've seen SHSU in playoff mode, right? You sure you want to include the Southland in that list? Socon maybe.

[MAKBison]

Right. Move up and play for nothing or stay put and beat up on the little sisters of the poor. I really don't love either option .

Yeah, I think that is why we are all hoping the P5 shits and gets of the pot. we go to the second level and they have a true playoff. How cool would that be

[MNLonghorn10]

You've seen SHSU in playoff mode, right? You sure you want to include the Southland in that list? Socon maybe.
same thing.

[MNLonghorn10]

I know others have a different opinion but this doesn't excite me. I don't even get the excitement for the big bowl games unless it's part of the playoff.

playing a b1g or SEC school at jerry world wouldn't excite you?

[TransAmBison]

The best part of all of this, is that you bozos keep typing the same 4 paragraph posts every time like any of us are going to read it because we know what it says.

While I understand that the mountain peak to climb is tall...it still doesn't change my mind of what division of football ndsu should be playing.

Imagine this....ndsu, a much more seasoned program than western Michigan ever was...hosting boise st to honor it's 2 for 1 contract and the stars align that the winner of this game would have the inside track of a new years 6 bowl.

Amazing.


I also propose we scrap sagarin ratings that involve fbs schools since they have no bearing on the fcs division. Why say ndsu is #37 when they're really #1? Make it sound like it's worth typing out.

Last but not least..donations. the put up or shut up line is tired. Your basic mentality is that if u can't fund a 500 million dollar stadium, to shut the f up...how messed up is that. I do donate. It ain't much. It'll never be much. If you need to brag about how lined your wallet is, you're a douche. The common man can't have a voice unless he's Warren buffet.With your comment about not donating much...would there be a chance you get priced out if we moved up?

[MNLonghorn10]

With your comment about not donating much...would there be a chance you get priced out if we moved up?

It would be upped if NDSU moved up or had any serious talks about needing money to move up.

[natstar1]

playing a b1g or SEC school at jerry world wouldn't excite you?

That would be cool no doubt, but I don't know if I would be more inclined to watch that than a FCS national title game.