Might as well get the argument started.

[THEsocalledfan]

The FFD wouldnt be an issue to start. You could get a waiver for x amount of years while you make things happen. With the announcement of a move up there would be a huge push to get it done in the amount of time allotted. This way there wouldnt be donor burn out over a project that would take years to get done.

But considering the college landscape I was not surprised by these quotes. They have been said before so I dont understand why people wont believe them.-------

"""""However, Larsen said the FCS has been a good home for NDSU football and doesn't see that changing in the foreseeable future.

"It's serves our program well," Larsen said. "It serves our fan base well. We have a chance to compete for a national championship."

Larsen added it's way too early to tell what a Group of 5 playoff would look like if it ever came to fruition, and how a move like that would affect the college football landscape.

"There are so many things that have to be figured out before they can even head in that direction," Larsen said. "We'll obviously keep an eye on it.""""""


So when it happens it happens.

I just would not have phrased it like Larson even though I think he is saying the same thing. I would have said, "We just need to see how all this shakes out. We think we will be in FCS for the foreseeable future, but if major changes happen, we will be ready." I think the way he is quoted makes many of us nervous NDSU is back in D2 mentality with a president terrified to make waves.

Seriously, that the conversation is even happening should make Larson do the happy dance, and he did not come off that way, nor did he reiterate the policy of being at the second level. Even within FBS, this would be the second level if he likes it or not and they had better not use that as an excuse which is what I am worried about.

[56BISON73]

I just would not have phrased it like Larson even though I think he is saying the same thing. I would have said, "We just need to see how all this shakes out. We think we will be in FCS for the foreseeable future, but if major changes happen, we will be ready." I think the way he is quoted makes many of us nervous NDSU is back in D2 mentality with a president terrified to make waves.

Seriously, that the conversation is even happening should make Larson do the happy dance, and he did not come off that way.

I think you are trying to read more in to it thats not there. I thought he was pretty clear in what he said. Doing the happy dance would just muddy up the waters and make some here think something is in the works.

Clear, concise and to the point. Leave no room for interpretation.

[THEsocalledfan]

I think you are trying to read more in to it thats not there. I thought he was pretty clear in what he said.

I hope so, Pat. And yes, I know you are probably right on this. Just all the crap with the Prez recently scares me that it will make NDSU go backward.

[MAKBison]

I think you are trying to read more in to it thats not there. I thought he was pretty clear in what he said.

Based on the rumblings I am hearing from some top-shelf donors there is discussion. I think ML said it best a lot has to shake out before nayone can make a rational choice.

[56BISON73]

Based on the rumblings I am hearing from some top-shelf donors there is discussion. I think ML said it best a lot has to shake out before nayone can make a rational choice.

Of course there is discussion. GT had some of the big boys to the dance a few years back and stated so.


psssss-keep it on the down low. Remember---they arent doing anything

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

I hope so, Pat. And yes, I know you are probably right on this. Just all the crap with the Prez recently scares me that it will make NDSU go backward.

NDSU is not going to go backwards. They will keep abreast of Div I Football, pretty much like what Larson said. P5 schools will continue to rule. In time, G5 schools may get financially serious and in some way break away and gather top FCS schools. Adopt policies to make money, which should of been in the game plan all along. And, create a playoff system that draws interest. Many unknowns here and also which FCS teams that could be? In the mean time interested FCS schools, with ambitions of moving up, should financially plan.

[AKBison]

The FFD wouldnt be an issue to start. You could get a waiver for x amount of years while you make things happen. With the announcement of a move up there would be a huge push to get it done in the amount of time allotted. This way there wouldnt be donor burn out over a project that would take years to get done.

But considering the college landscape I was not surprised by these quotes. They have been said before so I dont understand why people wont believe them.-------

"""""However, Larsen said the FCS has been a good home for NDSU football and doesn't see that changing in the foreseeable future.

"It's serves our program well," Larsen said. "It serves our fan base well. We have a chance to compete for a national championship."

Larsen added it's way too early to tell what a Group of 5 playoff would look like if it ever came to fruition, and how a move like that would affect the college football landscape.

"There are so many things that have to be figured out before they can even head in that direction," Larsen said. "We'll obviously keep an eye on it.""""""


So when it happens it happens.

Idaho tried the move up first and then hope for the best routine and it failed. When they first moved up they played at Washington State's Martin Stadium for 4 or 5 years (maybe longer?) It actually worked pretty good as they were able to host big schools there and had good attendance. However, nothing ever materialized with the Kibbie Dome expansion so they started playing again in Moscow, sucked ass, and well you know the rest of the story. Now, with that said, their building seats about 15,000 and they have NEVER sold it out outside of Boise coming to town. That thing was built in the 60's and it is remarkable to say that but it shows the level of support there.

Personally, I am a proponent of expanding the dome to seat 25k with room left to expand by 5k. Yes it would cost just as much as building new, and yes we would likely lose at least 1 year of home games but in the long run its worth it. If you build new, then what? We now have an empty dome sitting on campus for the next 50 years. It still has to be upkept, heated, etc. The only other feasable option would be to build a new one in west parking lot and tear down the dome after.

[scottietohottie]

Do I have to row this boat?

[Bison03]

I hear some Bison fans saying that UND moving to our conferences should be the final nail in the coffin for moving to FBS. Lets, for the sake of argument, throw out all the facts about needing money and a conference invite to do so. Do you realize how crazy you sound? You sound like, or at least giving the impression to und fans, that you are afraid of und being in the conference because they will be successful. That may or may not be true. But come on. Is "Bring on the Competition" not a thing anymore? It's time to get over yourselves about what und administrators did over a decade ago who aren't even there anymore. Their fans sucked then and do now so who cares what they said then or say now. I look at this a an opportunity to further kick their ass more often. Time to get off the FBS train kids.

[bisonp]

I hear some Bison fans saying that UND moving to our conferences should be the final nail in the coffin for moving to FBS. Lets, for the sake of argument, throw out all the facts about needing money and a conference invite to do so. Do you realize how crazy you sound? You sound like, or at least giving the impression to und fans, that you are afraid of und being in the conference because they will be successful. That may or may not be true. But come on. Is "Bring on the Competition" not a thing anymore? It's time to get over yourselves about what und administrators did over a decade ago who aren't even there anymore. Their fans sucked then and do now so who cares what they said then or say now. I look at this a an opportunity to further kick their ass more often. Time to get off the FBS train kids.

"Bring on the competition" would seem to indicate that when the MVFC starts getting watered down NDSU should look for better competition elsewhere instead of wallowing in mediocrity as they did in the 90's. It's not a matter of "being afraid". It's a desire to leave them behind for good because it's been a good thing for NDSU. I for one don't miss the rivalry, as mentioned in another thread it's not really very fun it's just toxic.

But yeah, I don't think there's any chance of FBS happening anytime soon. This next round of budget cuts could be painful and makes any talk of moving up political suicide. The only thing that could prompt it would be the great P5/G5 shakeout which doesn't seem as likely now as it did a couple years ago.

[BisonAccountant44]

"Bring on the competition" would seem to indicate that when the MVFC starts getting watered down NDSU should look for better competition elsewhere instead of wallowing in mediocrity as they did in the 90's. It's not a matter of "being afraid". It's a desire to leave them behind for good because it's been a good thing for NDSU. I for one don't miss the rivalry, as mentioned in another thread it's not really very fun it's just toxic.

But yeah, I don't think there's any chance of FBS happening anytime soon. This next round of budget cuts could be painful and makes any talk of moving up political suicide. The only thing that could prompt it would be the great P5/G5 shakeout which doesn't seem as likely now as it did a couple years ago.

This. In what world would moving up to FBS be running from competition? When I hear it I hear move of a screw the baby pool we're heading for the deep end than that we're afraid of little brother.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I’ve thought about this question long and hard and here’s my conclusion - I have no f*cking idea.

However, there are a few things I am fairly certain of:

1. NDSU waited too long to move to FCS.
2. The is no way the state could afford two FBS teams, let alone one.
3. NDSU is currently playing at the 3rd level of D1 football.
4. The G5 will never break away from the P5 (but a very small number of G5 teams will reluctantly drop down to FCS).
5. The FBS playoffs will expand but not by much.
6. It’s more about research stature and NDSU is a significant outlier in the ‘new and improved’ MVFC (we look much more like a G5 than any of the other three Dakota schools).
7. Both MN and WI have only one true research/D1 school, which leaves room for one more and it better be NDSU – i.e. the market is there, even if the $$ is not.
8. $$ is tight right now.
9. Whoever pulls the trigger on this better be damn good with $$.

[Vet70]

It's not a matter of "being afraid". It's a desire to leave them behind for good because it's been a good thing for NDSU. I for one don't miss the rivalry, as mentioned in another thread it's not really very fun it's just toxic.

This is a good point except for one thing, we will never be rid of them.

https://i1.wp.com/morganingram.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/january-nsam-twitter-300x149.jpg

[MNLonghorn10]

I hear some Bison fans saying that UND moving to our conferences should be the final nail in the coffin for moving to FBS. Lets, for the sake of argument, throw out all the facts about needing money and a conference invite to do so. Do you realize how crazy you sound? You sound like, or at least giving the impression to und fans, that you are afraid of und being in the conference because they will be successful. That may or may not be true. But come on. Is "Bring on the Competition" not a thing anymore? It's time to get over yourselves about what und administrators did over a decade ago who aren't even there anymore. Their fans sucked then and do now so who cares what they said then or say now. I look at this a an opportunity to further kick their ass more often. Time to get off the FBS train kids.

Look at next years schedule. BRING ON THE COMPETITION!

listen, you're probably the biggest NDSU sunshine pumper on this entire site. Please never tell me to get off of the FBS train because YOU'RE content where NDSU is a football program.

[td577]

I’ve thought about this question long and hard and here’s my conclusion - I have no f*cking idea.

However, there are a few things I am fairly certain of:

1. NDSU waited too long to move to FCS.
2. The is no way the state could afford two FBS teams, let alone one.
3. NDSU is currently playing at the 3rd level of D1 football.
4. The G5 will never break away from the P5 (but a very small number of G5 teams will reluctantly drop down to FCS).
5. The FBS playoffs will expand but not by much.
6. It’s more about research stature and NDSU is a significant outlier in the ‘new and improved’ MVFC (we look much more like a G5 than any of the other three Dakota schools).
7. Both MN and WI have only one true research/D1 school, which leaves room for one more and it better be NDSU – i.e. the market is there, even if the $$ is not.
8. $$ is tight right now.
9. Whoever pulls the trigger on this better be damn good with $$.

1. Agree.
2. Agree. If it ever happens, it isn't happening with two schools.
3. Everyone agrees with this.
4. This I contend with only because the G5 might not want to break away, but if the P5 continues to marginalize the G5 conferences, there may not be a choice. 1 major bowl and no objective method for getting there. 50% skill/50% scheduling or luck of your schedule in a given year. We don't even know if W.Mich was the best G5 school. They probably were, but there was nothing to determine it other than a subjective poll.
5. Playoff expansion will probably not include the G5 conferences. It will only happen to protect the interests of the P5 schools.
The rest are very good points.

I would add the G5 saw a drop for the first time in quite a while from all the bowl sharing revenue. They are slowly being squeezed out and only being kept around for scheduling purposes. A role they can still fulfill as a true second tier. No matter which way the G5 conferences want to look at it, they are not sitting at the big people's table. They aren't even in the same room. They are on the porch with the P5 conferences throwing them a bone once in a while so they don't stray too far because otherwise scheduling become a pain in the ass for those middle of the road P5 programs who need their 6 wins. Yeah, the ones going 3-5 in conference play and going to a bowl game because they are playing 2 G5 schools and wake forest.

[Christopher Moen]

I hear some Bison fans saying that UND moving to our conferences should be the final nail in the coffin for moving to FBS. Lets, for the sake of argument, throw out all the facts about needing money and a conference invite to do so. Do you realize how crazy you sound? You sound like, or at least giving the impression to und fans, that you are afraid of und being in the conference because they will be successful. That may or may not be true. But come on. Is "Bring on the Competition" not a thing anymore? It's time to get over yourselves about what und administrators did over a decade ago who aren't even there anymore. Their fans sucked then and do now so who cares what they said then or say now. I look at this a an opportunity to further kick their ass more often. Time to get off the FBS train kids.

Sometimes, a few of us NDSU fans deserve the Patton-treatment. It's a lot easier to bury UND by embarrassing them in competition; not by ignoring them and hope they just go away as if they are a wart.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrtS2_TfbeY

[SDbison]

I’ve thought about this question long and hard and here’s my conclusion - I have no f*cking idea.

However, there are a few things I am fairly certain of:

1. NDSU waited too long to move to FCS.
2. The is no way the state could afford two FBS teams, let alone one.
3. NDSU is currently playing at the 3rd level of D1 football.
4. The G5 will never break away from the P5 (but a very small number of G5 teams will reluctantly drop down to FCS).
5. The FBS playoffs will expand but not by much.
6. It’s more about research stature and NDSU is a significant outlier in the ‘new and improved’ MVFC (we look much more like a G5 than any of the other three Dakota schools).
7. Both MN and WI have only one true research/D1 school, which leaves room for one more and it better be NDSU – i.e. the market is there, even if the $$ is not.
8. $$ is tight right now.
9. Whoever pulls the trigger on this better be damn good with $$.
This......F_ _ K Yeah!

[MAKBison]

Sometimes, a few of us NDSU fans deserve the Patton-treatment. It's a lot easier to bury UND by embarrassing them in competition; not by ignoring them and hope they just go away as if they are a wart.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrtS2_TfbeY

Trading ysu for und if that is in fact what we wind up doing is not exactly bringing on the competition.

[Christopher Moen]

Trading ysu for und if that is in fact what we wind up doing is not exactly bringing on the competition.

My statement has nothing to do about YSU's wishes, but rather for some of us to stop acting like the world is coming to an end because our parasitic little brother is moving into our neighborhood.

Just smile at them when the pass by and beat their arses when they enter the field of play. We're the bigger and better team. As fans, lets act like it.

[MAKBison]

My statement has nothing to do about YSU's wishes, but rather for some of us to stop acting like the world is coming to an end because our parasitic little brother is moving into our neighborhood.

Just smile at them when the pass by and beat their arses when they enter the field of play. We're the bigger and better team. As fans, lets act like it.

Yeajh, i know. I meant to frame the other post....jdgef to change it.

[Tony Almeida]

My statement has nothing to do about YSU's wishes, but rather for some of us to stop acting like the world is coming to an end because our parasitic little brother is moving into our neighborhood.

Just smile at them when the pass by and beat their arses when they enter the field of play. We're the bigger and better team. As fans, lets act like it.I think this is the post that has come the closest to my feelings on this matter.

[StL Bison Fan]

My statement has nothing to do about YSU's wishes, but rather for some of us to stop acting like the world is coming to an end because our parasitic little brother is moving into our neighborhood.

Just smile at them when the pass by and beat their arses when they enter the field of play. We're the bigger and better team. As fans, lets act like it.

Parasitic little brother. Can you just picture that big giant tape worm.
This is good.

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

Knowing this is not a done deal yet, just hope it works out. I have a lot of Bison fans as friends, which most think the same. This is definitely the best move for UND, maybe it will be good for NDSU, also. There are many positives on both sides here.

[TransAmBison]

Knowing this is not a done deal yet, just hope it works out. I have a lot of Bison fans as friends, which most think the same. This is definitely the best move for UND, maybe it will be good for NDSU, also. There are many positives on both sides here.Somehow I envision you saying the last half of the sentence in a coughing mumble.

[Vet70]

Knowing this is not a done deal yet, just hope it works out. I have a lot of Bison fans as friends, which most think the same. This is definitely the best move for UND, maybe it will be good for NDSU, also. There are many positives on both sides here.

Please explain how NDSU could possibly benefit.

[scottietohottie]

I can't paddle fast enough. Don't know what really took me so long to get on this boat. Heck I've been posting like I'm at FBS level anyways.

[ZHerd]

Please explain how NDSU could possibly benefit.

Exactly. Anyone that doesn't think this will eventually hurt NDSU is beyond naive

[SDbison]

Knowing this is not a done deal yet, just hope it works out. I have a lot of Bison fans as friends, which most think the same. This is definitely the best move for UND, maybe it will be good for NDSU, also. There are many positives on both sides here. After you say "this is definitely the best move for UND", the rest of your post is total bullshit. The only positive I can see is maybe enough Bison fans will decide a move to FBS is needed sooner than later.

[BisonTeacher]

Knowing this is not a done deal yet, just hope it works out. I have a lot of Bison fans as friends, which most think the same. This is definitely the best move for UND, maybe it will be good for NDSU, also. There are many positives on both sides here.

I don't see how this is good for NDSU. I dont think it will hurt us, and I would rather it not happen, but IM not seeing how NDSU gains anything from this.

[wagsabison]

Exactly. Anyone that doesn't think this will eventually hurt NDSU is beyond naive

How does this hurt NDSU? Will it make recruiting a little more difficult? Probably. Suck it up and adjust to it.

[ZHerd]

How does this hurt NDSU? Will it make recruiting a little more difficult? Probably. Suck it up and adjust to it.

I don't need to suck it up and adjust to anything. It will be a problem in multiple ways. I don't need to explain how, we all will get to see why first hand soon enough. It was fun being the only D1 team in ND for the past decade plus but that is about to end.

[TransAmBison]

How does this hurt NDSU? Will it make recruiting a little more difficult? Probably. Suck it up and adjust to it.Suck it up and adjust to it. Why didn't we think of that?! Thanks for clearing that up. I guess we can move on.

[wagsabison]

I don't need to suck it up and adjust to anything. It will be a problem in multiple ways. I don't need to explain how, we all will get to see why first hand soon enough. It was fun being the only D1 team in ND for the past decade plus but that is about to end.

I wasn't referring to you specifically. NDSU and UND have both been D1 for a decade. If NDSU can't continue to be the most successful D1 program in the state just because UND is in the same conference we have no business being D1.

We have different opinions on this I realize but how does this hurt NDSU? Just curious on what people think will be the biggest issues.

[ZHerd]

I wasn't referring to you specifically. NDSU and UND have both been D1 for a decade. If NDSU can't continue to be the most successful D1 program in the state just because UND is in the same conference we have no business being D1.

We have different opinions on this I realize but how does this hurt NDSU? Just curious on what people think will be the biggest issues.

UND has been D1 in name only but an irrelevant non-factor in reality. They might as well have been pioneer league. That's about to change. I'll give a more in depth opinion/answer as to why I hate seeing this later when I have some time.

[abc123]

I don't see how this is good for NDSU. I dont think it will hurt us, and I would rather it not happen, but IM not seeing how NDSU gains anything from this.
NDSU benefits from the Summit getting to 10 teams, which further stabilizes it, creates travel partners for most sports and hopefully allowing them to move to a set basketball and volleyball (?) schedule (Thursday/Saturday). Any actual benefits or downside on the MVFC side are minimal at most, but that is the price that comes with helping the conference all of NDSU's sports except football and wrestling are in.

[BisonTeacher]

NDSU benefits from the Summit getting to 10 teams, which further stabilizes it, creates travel partners for most sports and hopefully allowing them to move to a set basketball and volleyball (?) schedule (Thursday/Saturday). Any actual benefits or downside on the MVFC side are minimal at most, but that is the price that comes with helping the conference all of NDSU's sports except football and wrestling are in.

YOu just said how this benefits two conferences. My statement was I dont see how this benefits NDSU as thats what you said as a possibility in your original statement.

[abc123]

YOu just said how this benefits two conferences. My statement was I dont see how this benefits NDSU as thats what you said as a possibility in your original statement.
Aren't the things I mentioned that benefit the Summit, where every sport but football and wrestling are, direct benefits to NDSU as well? I guess that was my point.

[BisonTeacher]

Aren't the things I mentioned that benefit the Summit, where every sport but football and wrestling are, direct benefits to NDSU as well? I guess that was my point.

Im getting people mixed up. My original question was directed at this statement below.


This is definitely the best move for UND, maybe it will be good for NDSU, also. There are many positives on both sides here.

[2011BisonAlumni]

UND has been D1 in name only but an irrelevant non-factor in reality. They might as well have been pioneer league. That's about to change. I'll give a more in depth opinion/answer as to why I hate seeing this later when I have some time.

They have an opportunity now to play NDSU annually. They will eventually win a game. What will that do to a recruit's perspective on the two programs? In their current conference alignment, right now NDSU could win 3 games and UND could win 9 and UND would still be irrelevant to most kids in this region.

It's pretty simple from a recruiting standpoint on how this will harm NDSU. We will have a dilution of talent. It is inevitable.

[ByeSonBusiness]

They have an opportunity now to play NDSU annually. They will eventually win a game. What will that do to a recruit's perspective on the two programs? In their current conference alignment, right now NDSU could win 3 games and UND could win 9 and UND would still be irrelevant to most kids in this region.

It's pretty simple from a recruiting standpoint on how this will harm NDSU. We will have a dilution of talent. It is inevitable.

Michigan State owned Michigan for like 5 or 6 years...I'd be willing to bet Michigan still won head to head in recruiting each of those years.

[Christopher Moen]

I wasn't referring to you specifically. NDSU and UND have both been D1 for a decade. If NDSU can't continue to be the most successful D1 program in the state just because UND is in the same conference we have no business being D1.

We have different opinions on this I realize but how does this hurt NDSU? Just curious on what people think will be the biggest issues.

The only way I see this hurting NDSU is if UND resorts back to their old political games, especially within the conference (i.e. convincing other teams to reduce scholarships).

[Farmer63]

I wasn't referring to you specifically. NDSU and UND have both been D1 for a decade. If NDSU can't continue to be the most successful D1 program in the state just because UND is in the same conference we have no business being D1.

We have different opinions on this I realize but how does this hurt NDSU? Just curious on what people think will be the biggest issues.

I think the biggest issue is footprint of recruits. NDSU recruits mostly from an upper Midwest footprint. So imagine a kid in that footprint deciding on where to play. Previously, if he signed with NDSU his parents and friends can drive to not only his home games, but several of the away games. If he signed with UND, almost every away game would be a plane ticket with the exception of the Montana games. Now UND will not have that disadvantage. It basically just strengthens UND's ability to attract, and puts them as a stronger competitor for recruiting, basically on par with SDSU, UNI, etc....

[ZHerd]

I see two South Dakota teams with improved facilities and recruiting...basically trending up. Same applies to UND. If those three programs (as they are now) had been in the MVC back in 2009, this run (especially the ability to run the table vs FBS teams because we had an FBS roster) wouldn't have turned out anything like it did. We wouldn't have been able to beat K-state and Iowa because we simply wouldn't have had the horses to do so. People are apparently fine with that because they get some dumb little D2 rivalry back again. It will be interesting watching reactions here after we lose a few guys at the top of our recruiting board to some newly introduced competitor. I don't care whether we can beat UND and we have nothing to prove in doing so. I like seeing us have a good enough team to be able to compete with the top of D1 and UND jumping on board will hurt that. Again, it's a matter of when not if. Our current staff seem to be very capable recruiters. Things could get interesting with the next group, we'll see. Will this be be the end of good football being played at NDSU or the end of competing for FCS championships? No. But it will make it harder and will reduce our level/quality of football and I see no reason to scrounge up reasons to be happy about that

[abc123]

The only way I see this hurting NDSU is if UND resorts back to their old political games, especially within the conference (i.e. convincing other teams to reduce scholarships).
I'm genuinely curious because this is a new claim I haven't seen before. Which scholarship reduction in Division II was the one that UND not only supported but lobbied on behalf of? The one in 1987 that moved it from 45 to 40 (records show it passed 45-28) or the one in 1991 that moved it from 40 to 36? I'd love to see something backing these up because I wasn't old enough to follow that kind of thing in those years. The only thing I have ever seen is UND was against scholarship reductions in the early 2000's.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

I would add the G5 saw a drop for the first time in quite a while from all the bowl sharing revenue. They are slowly being squeezed out and only being kept around for scheduling purposes. A role they can still fulfill as a true second tier. No matter which way the G5 conferences want to look at it, they are not sitting at the big people's table. They aren't even in the same room. They are on the porch with the P5 conferences throwing them a bone once in a while so they don't stray too far because otherwise scheduling become a pain in the ass for those middle of the road P5 programs who need their 6 wins. Yeah, the ones going 3-5 in conference play and going to a bowl game because they are playing 2 G5 schools and wake forest.

I agree. The current G5-P5 picture is murky and the FBS bowl scene is ill – I just don't think the P5 will let it be terminal; they’ll throw the G5 enough scraps to prevent a consensus. I watch a lot of bowl games because I love college football. The thing that amazes me is that despite playing a ‘meaningless’ game in an empty stadium, the fan bases – almost without exception – have zero interest in going back to FCS, even though the playoff model we have is clearly superior.

The other thing I’ll say is that a fair number of kids are deciding they don’t want to ride the FBS bench and are happy to play FCS football. As a consequence, the level of play is rising (see JMU). The one thing I am 100 % certain about is that we need to stay at the very top of the FCS heap, and I have absolute confidence that we will do so.

And since this has turned into a UND-to-the-MVFC thread … meh. I see USD and the new coaching staff there as a much bigger threat. In some sense, playing in the Big Sky gave UND a recruiting advantage that they will no longer have, since they’ll have to compete with NDSU, USD, SDSU and UNI for the same kids. People have a gut reaction like we’re going back to the 90s, or something. It ain’t happening - the Bison ‘brand’ has moved up and on its fate is ours to control. Personally, I think it will be very interesting to see UND have to play MVFC/Summit schedules. Different ball game, so to speak.

[Christopher Moen]

I'm genuinely curious because this is a new claim I haven't seen before. Which scholarship reduction in Division II was the one that UND led the charge on? The one in 1987 that moved it from 45 to 40 (records show it passed 45-28) or the one in 1991 that moved it from 40 to 36? I'd love to see something backing these up because I wasn't old enough to follow that kind of thing in those years.

You might want to look at the history of other sports (i.e. wrestling) within the old NCC in regards to scholarships.

[abc123]

You might want to look at the history of other sports (i.e. wrestling) within the old NCC in regards to scholarships.

So no then?

The football cuts occurred in 1987 and 1991. UND didn't drop wrestling until 1998. UND added three women's sports in the mid to late 1990's (golf in 1995, tennis in 1997 and after the fact, soccer in 1999). In 1998, the budget showed a small deficit, which they responded to by cutting wrestling. None of that has anything to do with the Division II football scholarships.

[Christopher Moen]

So no then?

The football cuts occurred in 1987 and 1991. UND didn't drop wrestling until 1998. UND added three women's sports in the mid to late 1990's (golf in 1995, tennis in 1997 and after the fact, soccer in 1999). In 1998, the budget showed a small deficit, which they responded to by cutting wrestling. None of that has anything to do with the Division II football scholarships.

UND was part of the group that voted to reduce wrestling scholarships from 9 to 5 in the NCC. This hampered Bucky's dominance in the NCC quite a bit. I previous statement didn't mention football, just UND's political games to put them on a more level field with NDSU without working harder.

[Mr Meaty]

UND was part of the group that voted to reduce wrestling scholarships from 9 to 5 in the NCC. This hampered Bucky's dominance in the NCC quite a bit. I previous statement didn't mention football, just UND's political games to put them on a more level field with NDSU without working harder.

And now they do not even offer wrestling and have not for awhile. UND could screw up a wet dream.

[Bison03]

Come on guys. Man up. Does UND joining the league help them, of course. Does it hurt us? No. Some of you seem scared that UND will now be relivent and start to dominate and that we don't want them beating us. What the hell?! I'm sure the coaches of every sport will treat them like any other conference opponent. Line up and kick their ass!! Maybe UND will be more like USD and have mediocre success across the board; make the tourney in womens bball or something, and have a rare fluke win in football against the conference king NDSU. The point is, calm down.

[Hammerhead]

Maybe its easier to get noticed by scouts with more FCS games on TV. IMHO, some kids choose FCS hoping to get more playing time instead of riding the pine for 2-3 years on a P5 team because they know scouts will find them if they are good enough to play in the NFL. It seems like every NFL team has at least 1 started on each side of the ball from FCS or lower divisions.

[Bisonator98]

Come on guys. Man up. Does UND joining the league help them, of course. Does it hurt us? No. Some of you seem scared that UND will now be relivent and start to dominate and that we don't want them beating us. What the hell?! I'm sure the coaches of every sport will treat them like any other conference opponent. Line up and kick their ass!! Maybe UND will be more like USD and have mediocre success across the board; make the tourney in womens bball or something, and have a rare fluke win in football against the conference king NDSU. The point is, calm down.

I got no issues with them joining the Summit League. It's the MVFC I have issues with, the schedule is already screwed up with 10 teams and will only get worse adding another. Sorry but until another team or preferably 2 move on there is no room at the inn.

[ZHerd]

Come on guys. Man up. Does UND joining the league help them, of course. Does it hurt us? No. Some of you seem scared that UND will now be relivent and start to dominate and that we don't want them beating us. What the hell?! I'm sure the coaches of every sport will treat them like any other conference opponent. Line up and kick their ass!! Maybe UND will be more like USD and have mediocre success across the board; make the tourney in womens bball or something, and have a rare fluke win in football against the conference king NDSU. The point is, calm down.

Manning up and being afraid to play them statements completely miss the point. You might as well argue that NDSU should have never moved to FCS but remained in D2 so they could man up and prove themselves where they were at...same premise. Them moving MVC won't affect NDSU? I wish you were right but I think you're very much not right. Take any player off the 1990-2003 UND roster and move them to the 1990-2003 Bison roster and you have something more akin to our current situation...an FBS roster that can beat P5 teams

[2011BisonAlumni]

UND was part of the group that voted to reduce wrestling scholarships from 9 to 5 in the NCC. This hampered Bucky's dominance in the NCC quite a bit. I previous statement didn't mention football, just UND's political games to put them on a more level field with NDSU without working harder.

They will vote to do anything to keep the advancement of costs to a minimum. Fucking Guaranteed. Did it before and they will do it again.

They are a cancer. USD and SDSU share a friendly rivalry and the state legislature is not biased towards one or the other.

[El_Chapo]

CRAIG BOHL & LAKESBISON WERE RIGHT 2 YEARS AGO. "for NDSU, there nowhere else to go but down.... NDSU has acheived all that they can at the fcs level" #NDSUEXIT Mountain West for the Best!!

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

Please explain how NDSU could possibly benefit. They won't have that huge wall to look over on the North side of campus. MVFC knocked it down today.

[56BISON73]

They won't have that huge wall to look over on the North side of campus. MVFC knocked it down today.

They just let you in the sand box. You still have to climb the wall.

[80ALUM]

The good thing about it is the legislature won't have a need to pass some crazy law that requires us to play them. Other than that I got nothing.

[Bisonator98]

The good thing about it is the legislature won't have a need to pass some crazy law that requires us to play them. Other than that I got nothing.

Unfortunately they will probably never let us leave them again either. It's imperative NDSU acts before they get that chance.

[Vet70]

The good thing about it is the legislature won't have a need to pass some crazy law that requires us to play them. Other than that I got nothing.


Unfortunately they will probably never let us leave them again either. It's imperative NDSU acts before they get that chance.

If the point is to go FBS so we can leave UND behind again and prevent the legislature from proposing laws mandating we have to play them it will not work. UND will continue to follow and the legislature will remain stupid. These are two immutable laws of nature.

[Bisonator98]

If the point is to go FBS so we can leave UND behind again and prevent the legislature from proposing laws mandating we have to play them it will not work. UND will continue to follow and the legislature will remain stupid. These are two immutable laws of nature.

I just don't want to see UND hold us back again. It can't happen again!

[ByeSonBusiness]

I just don't want to see UND hold us back again. It can't happen again!

How did und hold ndsu back in the past that is at risk of happening again now?

[Bisonator98]

How did und hold ndsu back in the past that is at risk of happening again now?

Do you really need the whole fricking story again???:facepalm:

[ByeSonBusiness]

Do you really need the whole fricking story again???:facepalm:

Without colorful glasses, sure. What kinda voodoo magic do they have?

Honestly, I've been in the FBS train for awhile, this did nothing to change that.

[Mayville Bison]

Without colorful glasses, sure. What kinda voodoo magic do they have?

Honestly, I've been in the FBS train for awhile, this did nothing to change that.

Are you really serious? TLDR version, UNC and NDSU wanted the entire NCC to move up to FCS together. UND and others (not sure if UND convinced others but only those behind closed doors would know that) decided they were staying D2. That power move almost held back NDSU as they missed their chance to move with UNC, but thankfully SDSU had the foresight to go at the same time.

[Bison Loaf]

UND had a coalition of DI hockey playing schools (UND, UNO, Mankato & St Cloud) that was able to block any momentum for the conference moving up as a whole. Lower-level schools that play DI hockey will ALWAYS have concerns about being able to fund their hockey programs at a level that is able to compete with the bigger hockey playing schools, and therefore will ALWAYS try to put the brakes on, or lower, expenses like scholarships, facilities, travel, etc for it's OTHER sports programs. For a school like NDSU, and it's nationally renowned football program............that type of thinking is extremely toxic, as it was in continuing to delay a move to DI, when it was well past time. Once NDSU finally got itself free of UND...............well..........we have seen what happens.

Therein lies the real danger of being too closely associated and tied in with UND.

[bisonaudit]

No one else in what is still the best FCS conference plays teh hockies. They are a coalition of 1 now.

[Bison Loaf]

No one else in what is still the best FCS conference plays teh hockies. They are a coalition of 1 now.

Yes, but they have a strong negative force about them. You, of all people, should know what that is like.

[semobison]

I get a kick out of the paranoia some of you have twords UND!
UND holding us back in the past is minimal at best.
The success we have had since we left them has nothing to do with the fact that we were rid of them.
UND holding us back in the future is paranoid.
I don't like those sons a bitches either but any drop in the success of our football team will be on our coaches and administration. I arrived on campus in the 3rd year of what would end up being a 12 year winning streak against those bastards and would be ecstatic to experience something like that again!

[NorthernBison]

Unfortunately they will probably never let us leave them again either. It's imperative NDSU acts before they get that chance.

Correct on the first point. The second is fantasy. If you think there is any chance of an FBS move that doesn't include both programs, you're dreaming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SDbison]

Correct on the first point. The second is fantasy. If you think there is any chance of an FBS move that doesn't include both programs, you're dreaming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So maybe UND should go back to DII then. They got their hockey at top tier. Football is king at NDSU so it makes sense the Bison should have the sole FBS team.

[MAKBison]

I get a kick out of the paranoia some of you have twords UND!
UND holding us back in the past is minimal at best.
The success we have had since we left them has nothing to do with the fact that we were rid of them.
UND holding us back in the future is paranoid.
I don't like those sons a bitches either but any drop in the success of our football team will be on our coaches and administration. I arrived on campus in the 3rd year of what would end up being a 12 year winning streak against those bastards and would be ecstatic to experience something like that again!

UND should just say thank you for NDSU and the MVFC saving UND athletics. Even with the move, UND is not out of the woods yet!!!

BTW I am now all in for NDSU hockey

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

BTW I am now all in for NDSU hockey

I understand the sentiment, but hockey is a money pit, especially with Title IX. Plus, look at most of the schools playing NCAA hockey … not what we want to be affiliated with.

[MAKBison]

I understand the sentiment, but hockey is a money pit, especially with Title IX. Plus, look at most of the schools playing NCAA hockey … not what we want to be affiliated with.

It was DP..............PLus we can give up Men's BaseB.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

It was DP..............

I'm with ya now

[td577]

I understand the sentiment, but hockey is a money pit, especially with Title IX. Plus, look at most of the schools playing NCAA hockey … not what we want to be affiliated with.

Even though MAK was inferring UN_ would have no choice but to push for conference membership at this point if NDSU were to start hockey, why would it have to be women's ice hockey to meet the title ix requirement? Field hockey, rowing, rugby, equestrian, triathlon, bowling, and water polo are a few NDSU already has access to facilities without a large equipment cost involved.

[MAKBison]

Even though MAK was inferring UN_ would have no choice but to push for conference membership at this point if NDSU were to start hockey, why would it have to be women's ice hockey to meet the title ix requirement? Field hockey, rowing, rugby, equestrian, triathlon, bowling, and water polo are a few NDSU already has access to facilities without a large equipment cost involved.

I have always thought the Dance Team should be the next sport to be moved up from club status...they already win and it would give them legitimate access to practice facilities.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Even though MAK was inferring UN_ would have no choice but to push for conference membership at this point if NDSU were to start hockey, why would it have to be women's ice hockey to meet the title ix requirement? Field hockey, rowing, rugby, equestrian, triathlon, bowling, and water polo are a few NDSU already has access to facilities without a large equipment cost involved.

Yep, you’re right. My bad. I just assumed if someone wanted men’s they’d want women’s too. I get asked fairly regularly why NDSU doesn’t have hockey and I have a pretty strong aversion to the idea.

[td577]

Yep, you’re right. My bad. I just assumed if someone wanted men’s they’d want women’s too. I get asked fairly regularly why NDSU doesn’t have hockey and I have a pretty strong aversion to the idea.

I am really not too keen on the idea either. Just wanted to mention there are other alternatives to having women's hockey if anyone wants to get men's hockey going. Any revenue men's hockey at UN_ might bring in completely gets negated by having women's hockey. It isn't fair, it is just a fact.

[MAKBison]

Move up or add mens hockey

[DIBISON]

College men's hockey sucks. Very limited fan following and limited to the northern tier of the states, too expensive and a lack of interest for 90% of the universities in the USA. Why would you want to play Duluth, St. Cloud, Bemidji St, Ferris St. and Mankato St and have them as your conference peers? Could you imagine if those colleges were in the Summit and Missouri Valley conferences and opponents of the Bison in basketball and football?

[BisonBacker]

Absolutely the time to make the push for FBS.

[El_Chapo]

Absolutely the time to make the push for FBS.

amen college hockey got 400,000 viewers on espn 2 in title.game. we get that for indiana state game. less than 5% of america even knows about it

[oldmantutters]

I think at this point some shitty bowl game in Detroit seems more appealing than having to go to GF to play in the tin shed every other year.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[SDbison]

I think at this point some shitty bowl game in Detroit seems more appealing than having to go to GF to play in the tin shed every other year.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk When you think about it this should change the mind of those sitting on the fence. Also, the MVFC schedules are going to be screwed up from 2020 on thanks to UND.

[MAKBison]

College men's hockey sucks. Very limited fan following and limited to the northern tier of the states, too expensive and a lack of interest for 90% of the universities in the USA. Why would you want to play Duluth, St. Cloud, Bemidji St, Ferris St. and Mankato St and have them as your conference peers? Could you imagine if those colleges were in the Summit and Missouri Valley conferences and opponents of the Bison in basketball and football?

Because its who we either really are or who we really are not. In every other sport (less wrestling), we are the same as und now. Either move up or swing the axe and make it official

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

Speaking of hockey, Colorado College got its first home win of the season last night – a shutout against you-know-whioux. It was a very entertaining game.

Is it signing day yet?

[SDbison]

Speaking of hockey, Colorado College got its first home win of the season last night – a shutout against you-know-whioux. It was a very entertaining game.

Is it signing day yet? I understand the enjoyment, but remember, every time that team is mentioned they get some sort of validation they are relevant.

[Grizzled]

When you think about it this should change the mind of those sitting on the fence. Also, the MVFC schedules are going to be screwed up from 2020 on thanks to UND.

Actually it's thanks to the MVFC school presidents that voted them in. They knew what they were voting for and what it would do to scheduling.

[2011BisonAlumni]

Actually it's thanks to the MVFC school presidents that voted them in. They knew what they were voting for and what it would do to scheduling.

If I had to bet on it, someone will be gone by 2020.

[Bisonator98]

Which MVFC schools would be willing and able to go FBS? How about the BSC? Would there be enough to form a football only conference if the WAC were willing to invite them?

NDSU, UNI, SDSU, SIU, WIU, YSU, Missouri State, Montana, Montana State, Idaho, Portland State,Sac State and Weber State already meet the minimum stadium requirements. Obviously some of those can't swing the added scholarships. Wichita State wants FB but only in FBS.

[THEsocalledfan]

Which MVFC schools would be willing and able to go FBS? How about the BSC? Would there be enough to form a football only conference if the WAC were willing to invite them?

NDSU, UNI, SDSU, SIU, WIU, YSU, Missouri State, Montana, Montana State, Idaho, Portland State,Sac State and Weber State already meet the minimum stadium requirements. Obviously some of those can't swing the added scholarships. Wichita State wants FB but only in FBS.

Sioux Volley, that you trolling?

[Bisonator98]

I don't think the Illinois schools would be able to afford FBS. Same for PSU, Sac or Weber.

That leaves NDSU, SDSU, UNI, YSU, Missouri State, Montana, Montana State and Idaho. Add Wichita State and New Mexico State and you'd have a pretty nice FBS football conference. 9 conference games plus 3 OOC games for the 12 game FBS schedule. We'd finally be able to schedule B1G games again plus the PAC would like the additional FBS OOC games I'm sure.

[Bisonator98]

Sioux Volley, that you trolling?

Lol not exactly but his WAC theory is about the only way FBS would work.

[stevdock]

If I had to bet on it, someone will be gone by 2020.

Absolutely correct. And if not I can see them bringing in another team to get to 12. Maybe someone like Eastern Illinois.

[EC8CH]

If I had to bet on it, someone will be gone by 2020.

It think so too. Patty V and others are just being politically correct to say otherwise. Top three things that wouldn't surprise me:

Youngstown moves to another FCS conference
Indiana State drops football
Eastern Illinois is added

Pump it up Bonus: NDSU moves to the MW... screw it BIG12!

[Christopher Moen]

It think so too. Patty V and others are just being politically correct to say otherwise. Top three things that wouldn't surprise me:

Youngstown moves to another FCS conference
Indiana State drops football
Eastern Illinois is added

Pump it up Bonus: NDSU moves to the MW... screw it BIG12!

I thought I heard on "The Insiders" that Indiana State was planning to be more committed to their football program.

[AKBison]

Lol not exactly but his WAC theory is about the only way FBS would work.

I could live with UNI, Illinois State, and NDSU to the MAC all sports. Having a football, wrestling and to a lesser extant basketball rivalry with UNI would be awesome. It would be nice to bring little brother along (SDSU) but UNI and NDSU don't need the extra competition in our main recruiting corridor while trying to recruit FBS talent. The best added bonus would be the Northern Illinois and NDSU football game which will likely become one of the MAC's premier rivalry's. The two schools would be the only 2 that are firmly "football first" The rest swing towards basketball first.

MAC West

NDSU
UNI
ISU
NIU
CMU
WMU
EMU

MAC East

Ball State
Miami
Buffalo
Toledo
Akron
Bowling Green
Ohio

[Bisonator98]

I don't see the MAC or MWC expanding beyond their current membership. We would likely have to wait to replace someone.

[1998braves64]

I don't see the MAC or MWC expanding beyond their current membership. We would likely have to wait to replace someone.


Just a phone call away from making them change their minds though, didn't you read El Chapo's post?

[Christopher Moen]

Just a phone call away from making them change their minds though, didn't you read El Chapo's post?

It's not that the MWC are not full of themselves. I'm pretty sure one day I'll get them to admit that the G5 conferences are getting screwed by the P5 conferences. I expect this to happen around the same time they stop laughing at my prediction from last Summer that NDSU would beat Iowa.