Cost of Attendance

[cbline]

New Bison Media article by Dom on adding Cost of Attendance to scholarships. We'll see how this falls out this summer.

http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/

[bisonmike2]

Time to build that new 35K seat stadium to generate more $$$ to pay for COA.

[Bison 4 Life]

Do it. It sets you apart from the others as a school that fully supports the athletes. Even if other teams don't.

[westnodak93bison]

Time to build that new 35K seat stadium to generate more $$$ to pay for COA.
Build it and they will come

[SDbison]

I increased my teammaker donation by $100 this year with the intent it might be needed for COA.

[HerdBot]

This is such a no brainer I'm not even sure what there is to discuss..

I've said this many times but there will be 2 possible outcomes.

1) Negatively impacts recruiting. We lose out on the next Marcus Williams, John Crockett, or Billy Turner to other teams. Could be to a MAC school or even a PWO to the Gophers over a full ride.

2) The playing field is equal or gives us an advantage.

I'll take #2 100 times out of 100.

I really like the idea of giving it to walk ons too since we can load up on Minnesota kids who will already get in state tuition due to reciprocity. Paying a stipend is almost like giving them a half scholarship which would be a huge deal when you have kids choosing between a D2 scholarship or a walk on at NDSU. Lots of talented Minnesota kids out there. It's almost like increasing your scholarships closer to the FBS level and we should all want that.

[wtffootballfan]

Time to build that new 35K seat stadium to generate more $$$ to pay for COA.

Where do you build it?

[North Side]

How much will this end up costing NDSU?

[Bison 4 Life]

How much will this end up costing NDSU?

Probably about $750k a season. Not insignificant but not really a barrier to participation either.

[wtffootballfan]

With men's wrestling moving to the Big 12, I'm sure they will have to do COA.

[Mr Meaty]

We can fund this. It is the cost of doing business. If you are not moving forward you are falling behind.

[56BISON73]

This is such a no brainer I'm not even sure what there is to discuss..

I've said this many times but there will be 2 possible outcomes.

1) Negatively impacts recruiting. We lose out on the next Marcus Williams, John Crockett, or Billy Turner to other teams. Could be to a MAC school or even a PWO to the Gophers over a full ride.

2) The playing field is equal or gives us an advantage.

I'll take #2 100 times out of 100.

I really like the idea of giving it to walk ons too since we can load up on Minnesota kids who will already get in state tuition due to reciprocity. Paying a stipend is almost like giving them a half scholarship which would be a huge deal when you have kids choosing between a D2 scholarship or a walk on at NDSU. Lots of talented Minnesota kids out there. It's almost like increasing your scholarships closer to the FBS level and we should all want that.

Who said walk ons are eligible for COA? If they get COA they would be considered a scholarship player would they not?

[NDSU1980]

Why is Matt Larson still saying wait and see? We need to be announcing we are doing this and get the ball rolling. I upped my TM dues to cover my share of this. We need to quit stalling and just do it.

[tony]

Why is Matt Larson still saying wait and see? We need to be announcing we are doing this and get the ball rolling. I upped my TM dues to cover my share of this. We need to quit stalling and just do it.

Why should Matt Larson give all of NDSU's competition a heads up on NDSU's plans?

[NDSU1980]

Why should Matt Larson give all of NDSU's competition a heads up on NDSU's plans?
Why not give our recruits and players the security of knowing we are definitely doing this? Obviously Liberty isn't scared of the "competition".

[Tatanka]

Why not give our recruits and players the security of knowing we are definitely doing this? Obviously Liberty isn't scared of the "competition".


I'm quite sure our recruits and players are not in the dark.

[tjbison]

Why not give our recruits and players the security of knowing we are definitely doing this? Obviously Liberty isn't scared of the "competition".

Liberty didn't announce to the world for recruits...if you get the drift

[GOBISON123]

Liberty is going FBS ?

[tony]

Liberty is going FBS ?

Liberty has wanted to go FBS for years but can't do it without an invitation from an FBS conference.

[Tatanka]

Liberty has wanted to go FBS for years but can't do it without an invitation from an FBS conference.


Wait, what? You mean that's not just bullshit?

[56BISON73]

Wait, what? You mean that's not just bullshit?

I am shocked! Wish we would have known. Geez.

[Bisonwinagn]

Probably about $750k a season. Not insignificant but not really a barrier to participation either.

Do we really have 220 scholarship players? I don't follow your math.

[HerdUp]

Obviously going to do football, men's basketball and probably wrestling.

Need to match men's sports and women's for Title IX.

So by default... women's soccer, hoops, volleyball, softball, track, etc.

[56BISON73]

Do we really have 220 scholarship players? I don't follow your math.

3500.00 x 220 = 770,000.00

[unbison]

A couple have people have said they donated their share.
How does one come up with a figure for this?
If you just said 770,000 dollars with no overhead (simplicity)
And let's say there are 3500 teammakers
I come up with a annual increase in everyone's donation of 220 dollars
I don't see that being extremely accurate as there is going to be a minimum of another 100k
Here is another problem question does this make these people eligible for workers comp? As that will increase the overhead in the cost of administrating these funds lots to consider

[westnodak93bison]

We can fund this. It is the cost of doing business. If you are not moving forward you are falling behind.
Did you flunk physics? Technically one could stand still. :p

[Tatanka]

Interesting article via Dom Izzo....

Interesting take from Idaho St HC Mike Kramer on COA: http://t.co/bCw0skH2cX @BigSkyFB @FCS_Football



So what if Montana or Montana State, two Big Sky rivals of the Bengals, decide to cover the full cost of attendance in football?


“I don’t really care because it’s not an issue,” Kramer said. “Because most of the time in the Big Sky Conference nobody recruits against anybody else. We stay out of each other’s way because we don’t have enough money recruiting-wise to be able to compete and lose on signing day. So we steer away from each other every single day.”


Lol @ Big Fluffy
Also, not surprised I find a more recent quote of substance from our AD in a newspaper from Idaho than my local fishwrap.
Sent from somewhere on teh intarwebs.

[1998braves64]

Guessing that they are playing a game of poker if you ask me..
But can still lol at big fluffy.
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[Mr Meaty]

Did you flunk physics? Technically one could stand still. :p

And if you stand still you are getting passed by people/teams therefore falling behind.

[NDSU1980]

Interesting article via Dom Izzo....

Interesting take from Idaho St HC Mike Kramer on COA: http://t.co/bCw0skH2cX @BigSkyFB @FCS_Football



Lol @ Big Fluffy
.

The Fluffy recruits defensive players? I'm shocked. I always thought they just looked at the offensive side of things and took walk ons for D.

[HerdBot]

Who said walk ons are eligible for COA? If they get COA they would be considered a scholarship player would they not?

Not sure on that one. Is a stipend part of a scholarship or totally separate? Is it an equivalency total or a dollar total based on equivalency? Or can everyone on the roster quality?

I hope it's considered separate. I think a pwo, who is guaranteed a roster spot, probably puts in just as much work as a scholarship guy and would have to apply to the same working rules

[GOB1SON]

So quick question:

Does Title 9 mean that for every dollar spent on men's athletics the school must be matched in women's athletics? This doesn't seem possible.

So will the same "ratio" apply for COA?

And how can you justify COA for only certain sports? Won't NDSU have to offer it to all student-athletes? At least those on scholarships? And how do you handle partial scholarships?

This could get to be a really slippery slope.

[HerdBot]

So quick question:

Does Title 9 mean that for every dollar spent on men's athletics the school must be matched in women's athletics? This doesn't seem possible.

So will the same "ratio" apply for COA?

And how can you justify COA for only certain sports? Won't NDSU have to offer it to all student-athletes? At least those on scholarships? And how do you handle partial scholarships?

This could get to be a really slippery slope.

Lots of questions but I don't think it's that slippery. In the simplist terms you just make it mirror the currently scholarship model. Pretty sure title 9 is applicable and it should be

Where it gets tricky is anything above that. Do PWOs get it? Full 100 man roster?

[bisonfan08]

So quick question:

Does Title 9 mean that for every dollar spent on men's athletics the school must be matched in women's athletics? This doesn't seem possible.

So will the same "ratio" apply for COA?

And how can you justify COA for only certain sports? Won't NDSU have to offer it to all student-athletes? At least those on scholarships? And how do you handle partial scholarships?

This could get to be a really slippery slope.

Title IX doesn't reference dollar amounts, it just simply requires that for every men's scholarship sport a university has they have to have a women's scholarship sport as well. Obviously with the number of participants and funding that goes into football there's not a women's sport out there that would match it dollar wise. The corresponding women's sport to football at NDSU is women's soccer which has 25 athletes versus the 90-100 (not all scholarship of course) of the football team. As far as the partial scholarship and PWO situations I'm sure within the guidelines the NCAA passed it contains all the details of what's allowed there. With the NCAA as policy driven as they are I would assume everything is covered in the rules that were passed.

[tjbison]

Lots of questions but I don't think it's that slippery. In the simplist terms you just make it mirror the currently scholarship model. Pretty sure title 9 is applicable and it should be

Where it gets tricky is anything above that. Do PWOs get it? Full 100 man roster?

not sure why a PWO would get money, that doesn't even make sense to me

[HerdBot]

not sure why a PWO would get money, that doesn't even make sense to me

that's the question were looking at... is a stipend related to a scholarship or simply just being on thr team? Pioneer or Ivy League schools don't even offer scholarships so how would they differeciate between a walk on or a scholarship guy?

and there is a big difference between a walk on and a preferred walk on too. A pwo is guaranteed a roster spot. Pretty much anyone can walk on

I think pwos work just as hard or harder than a scholarship guy yet they face the same challenges

[tjbison]

that's the question were looking at... is a stipend related to a scholarship or simply just being on thr team? Horizon or Ivy League schools don't even offer scholarships so how would they differeciate between a walk on or a scholarship guy?

and there is a big difference between a walk on and a preferred walk on too. A pwo is guaranteed a roster spot. Pretty much anyone can walk on

I think pwos work just as hard or harder than a scholarship guy yet they face the same challenges

since when has the Horizon league been non scholarship

[HerdBot]

since when has the Horizon league been non scholarshipI meant Pioneer. But point being there are several who don't offer scholarships. So are all of those leagues players PWOs?

[THEsocalledfan]

since when has the Horizon league been non scholarship

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/81/81a317e7c8e0bcd1f94327823aef74f4476e3c6da969937688 9124b5cf7af5bc.jpg

[bisonaudit]

A couple have people have said they donated their share.
How does one come up with a figure for this?
If you just said 770,000 dollars with no overhead (simplicity)
And let's say there are 3500 teammakers
I come up with a annual increase in everyone's donation of 220 dollars
I don't see that being extremely accurate as there is going to be a minimum of another 100k
Here is another problem question does this make these people eligible for workers comp? As that will increase the overhead in the cost of administrating these funds lots to consider


Your Team Maker headcount is heavy about 1,100.

http://www.gobison.com/news/2015/2/27/ATH_0227155931.aspx?path=general

[BisonNeil]

Not sure on that one. Is a stipend part of a scholarship or totally separate? Is it an equivalency total or a dollar total based on equivalency? Or can everyone on the roster quality?

I hope it's considered separate. I think a pwo, who is guaranteed a roster spot, probably puts in just as much work as a scholarship guy and would have to apply to the same working rules

I have the same question. NDSU football has 63 scholarships that they most likely divide up among the limit of 85 players. We know some "scholarship" players get only a 1/4 ride, not a lot more dollars than a walk on who gets zero. So, does the half or quarter ride player get full COA or just the equivalent percentage of it?

Someone said there are 220 scholarships, I don't know if that is true or not, but my guess is that if that is a true number, the number of athletes with some scholarship dollars is much higher than that and if all get full COA then $770,000 is low.

[56BISON73]

Not sure on that one. Is a stipend part of a scholarship or totally separate? Is it an equivalency total or a dollar total based on equivalency? Or can everyone on the roster quality?

I hope it's considered separate. I think a pwo, who is guaranteed a roster spot, probably puts in just as much work as a scholarship guy and would have to apply to the same working rules

WTF? Of course the walkons put in the same amount of time. BUT there is a reason they are walkons and not on scholarship. But because of the time spent you think they should get the COA? If that's your reasoning they should be on a schollie also.
Or did you just have another Gabe brain fart?

[Bisonwinagn]

I'm guessing the COA will be entirely based on number of scholarships. So if we offer 100 we can pay the equivalent 100 COA to the same players, but prorated based on scholarship money. Walk on's won't get anything which is too bad. They're not creating a new scholarship just increasing the money for the existing ones.

[NDSUstudent]

Interesting article via Dom Izzo....

Interesting take from Idaho St HC Mike Kramer on COA: http://t.co/bCw0skH2cX @BigSkyFB @FCS_Football



Lol @ Big Fluffy
Also, not surprised I find a more recent quote of substance from our AD in a newspaper from Idaho than my local fishwrap.
Sent from somewhere on teh intarwebs.

I read that article about Idaho State last night and just couldn't help but think why is this school even in DI? Sounds like most of the Big Sky is like Idaho State, wonder how this will play into SiouxVolley's latest FBS Big Sky scheme?

[MAKBison]

I have the same question. NDSU football has 63 scholarships that they most likely divide up among the limit of 85 players. We know some "scholarship" players get only a 1/4 ride, not a lot more dollars than a walk on who gets zero. So, does the half or quarter ride player get full COA or just the equivalent percentage of it?

Someone said there are 220 scholarships, I don't know if that is true or not, but my guess is that if that is a true number, the number of athletes with some scholarship dollars is much higher than that and if all get full COA then $770,000 is low.

The cost for all schollies was worked out a few months ago if you want to look back and find it

[Hammersmith]

How much will this end up costing NDSU?

Max of $650,000 using current figures.


Who said walk ons are eligible for COA? If they get COA they would be considered a scholarship player would they not?

Correct.


Not sure on that one. Is a stipend part of a scholarship or totally separate? Is it an equivalency total or a dollar total based on equivalency? Or can everyone on the roster quality?

I hope it's considered separate. I think a pwo, who is guaranteed a roster spot, probably puts in just as much work as a scholarship guy and would have to apply to the same working rules

It's integrated into the scholarship amount calculation. It's not separate.


So quick question:

Does Title 9 mean that for every dollar spent on men's athletics the school must be matched in women's athletics? This doesn't seem possible.

So will the same "ratio" apply for COA?

And how can you justify COA for only certain sports? Won't NDSU have to offer it to all student-athletes? At least those on scholarships? And how do you handle partial scholarships?

This could get to be a really slippery slope.

Not matched 1:1, but there must be some corresponding matching.


Title IX doesn't reference dollar amounts, it just simply requires that for every men's scholarship sport a university has they have to have a women's scholarship sport as well. Obviously with the number of participants and funding that goes into football there's not a women's sport out there that would match it dollar wise. The corresponding women's sport to football at NDSU is women's soccer which has 25 athletes versus the 90-100 (not all scholarship of course) of the football team. As far as the partial scholarship and PWO situations I'm sure within the guidelines the NCAA passed it contains all the details of what's allowed there. With the NCAA as policy driven as they are I would assume everything is covered in the rules that were passed.

Wrong. Really, really wrong. Title IX applies to EVERYTHING. Scholarships, budgets, coaches, facilities. EVERYTHING.


I'm guessing the COA will be entirely based on number of scholarships. So if we offer 100 we can pay the equivalent 100 COA to the same players, but prorated based on scholarship money. Walk on's won't get anything which is too bad. They're not creating a new scholarship just increasing the money for the existing ones.

Mostly correct, but just wrong enough in a couple key areas. A school can manipulate the way the calculations are handled to create new scholarships. If NDSU gave out no extra money to any single player but still used the new calculation method, the FB program could squeeze out another five or six scholarships to be distributed among the 85 players. I can back it up with math if anyone wishes.

[Bisonwinagn]

If they can give the COA to anyone that seems like a huge advantage to FCS basically increasing scholarships. I'm not sure if the regulations are final yet, but will be interesting.

[bisonaudit]

I think this is correct for FCS football and other sports that allow you to give partials but wouldn't apply to basketball or sports that require full rides or nothing.

[Hammersmith]

I think this is correct for FCS football and other sports that allow you to give partials but wouldn't apply to basketball or sports that require full rides or nothing.

Yeah, I forgot to say that MBB, WBB & VB wouldn't work this way. It was in a previous draft that was turning into a novel.


And you can give a partial scholarship in headcount sports, it just doesn't give you any advantages. The only situation I can think of where you would use it is in a critical budget situation or disciplinary reasons.

[HerdBot]

WTF? Of course the walkons put in the same amount of time. BUT there is a reason they are walkons and not on scholarship. But because of the time spent you think they should get the COA? If that's your reasoning they should be on a schollie also.
Or did you just have another Gabe brain fart?


True but is a stipend a scholarship or just a side add on or benefit? Are they even related?

If they are not related, why not spread the money out further or simply give walk ons a stipend? Keep in mind I'm referring to PWOs who are guaranteed a roster spot, not a regular walkon.

Seems like we're starting to get some PWOs who turned down scholarships from D2 schools. Gives them another small incentive for paying out of pocket and joining the team for basically free.

[Hammersmith]

True but is a stipend a scholarship or just a side add on or benefit? Are they even related?

If they are not related, why not spread the money out further or simply give walk ons a stipend? Keep in mind I'm referring to PWOs who are guaranteed a roster spot, not a regular walkon.

Seems like we're starting to get some PWOs who turned down scholarships from D2 schools. Gives them another small incentive for paying out of pocket and joining the team for basically free.

Could you please actually read one of my posts on the subject for a change? I've explained this something like half a dozen times so far.


STIPENDS ARE NOT SEPARATE


Scholarships are calculated using a very simple formula:

money given to student-athlete / total possible money allowed to that student = fraction of scholarship


All the new FCOA method does is alter the denominator of the fraction by increasing it by the additional COA amount(currently $3400 at NDSU). That's it. It's really <bleeping> simple.

[Tatanka]

Could you please actually read one of my posts on the subject for a change? I've explained this something like half a dozen times so far.


STIPENDS ARE NOT SEPARATE


Scholarships are calculated using a very simple formula:

money given to student-athlete / total possible money allowed to that student = fraction of scholarship


All the new FCOA method does is alter the denominator of the fraction by increasing it by the additional COA amount(currently $3400 at NDSU). That's it. It's really <bleeping> simple.


What was the part again where you said the stuff about that thing?

[56BISON73]

True but is a stipend a scholarship or just a side add on or benefit? Are they even related?

If they are not related, why not spread the money out further or simply give walk ons a stipend? Keep in mind I'm referring to PWOs who are guaranteed a roster spot, not a regular walkon.

Seems like we're starting to get some PWOs who turned down scholarships from D2 schools. Gives them another small incentive for paying out of pocket and joining the team for basically free.


:facepalm:.... Hammersmith has explained it numerous times...........again....:facepalm:

[NDSUstudent]

Could you please actually read one of my posts on the subject for a change? I've explained this something like half a dozen times so far.


STIPENDS ARE NOT SEPARATE


Scholarships are calculated using a very simple formula:

money given to student-athlete / total possible money allowed to that student = fraction of scholarship


All the new FCOA method does is alter the denominator of the fraction by increasing it by the additional COA amount(currently $3400 at NDSU). That's it. It's really <bleeping> simple.

Hammersmith just put the hammer down...

http://media.tumblr.com/658fe641d28d5e1800674f5ba750df1e/tumblr_inline_mvm67mDSpe1qfs2qw.gif

[Gully]

:facepalm:.... Hammersmith has explained it numerous times...........again....:facepalm:


Hey PL, question for you. Does continuing to argue with Lak.....er El Chap or HerdBot change their perspective at all?

[HerdBot]

Could you please actually read one of my posts on the subject for a change? I've explained this something like half a dozen times so far.


STIPENDS ARE NOT SEPARATE


Scholarships are calculated using a very simple formula:

money given to student-athlete / total possible money allowed to that student = fraction of scholarship


All the new FCOA method does is alter the denominator of the fraction by increasing it by the additional COA amount(currently $3400 at NDSU). That's it. It's really <bleeping> simple.

Thanks for thr clarification. I typically don't read entire threads during thr offseason since it's typically 20 pages of arguing about nothing but as usual, you have some great info. Thanks again

[1998braves64]

Hammersmith just put the <bleeping> hammer down...




Fixed it for you!

[tjbison]

Thanks for thr clarification. I typically don't read entire threads during thr offseason since it's typically 20 pages of arguing about nothing but as usual, you have some great info. Thanks again

So you post without reading threads yet you start new threads......that explains a ton

Do you have conversations with people without listening?

[Tatanka]

So you post without reading threads yet you start new threads......that explains a ton



Do you have conversations with people without listening?


Did anyone read this?

[NDSU1980]

Did anyone read this?
Yep, everyone but Gabe.

[Tatanka]

Yep, everyone but Gabe.


I can't even hear you. I'm done listening.

[HerdBot]

So you post without reading threads yet you start new threads......that explains a ton

Do you have conversations with people without listening?

I will never read every word on Bisonville since most responses are douche bag and/or ADD thread drift type responses.

It's not that I don't listen. Its just hard to pay attention. It's kind of like trying to watch a movie with a clown juggling cats, 2 mimes simulating a porno, a contortionist trying to suck his own dick, 19 teenage girls texting, a guy lighting his own farts, and to top it off...a marching band of midgets singing Bohemian Rhapsody in assless chaps.

[BisonNation11]

I will never read every word on Bisonville since most responses are douche bag responses and ADD thread drift.

It's not that I don't listen. Its just hard to pay attention. It's kind of like trying to watch a movie with a clown juggling cats, a contortionist trying to suck his own dick, 19 teenage girls texting, a guy lighting his own farts, and to top it off...a marching band of midgets singing Bohemian Rhapsody in assless chaps.

Not that I read everything you said but all chaps are assless :nod:

[HerdBot]

Not that I read everything you said but all chaps are assless :nod:

http://media.giphy.com/media/OP6gvbzoZXryw/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

[56BISON73]

I will never read every word on Bisonville since most responses are douche bag and/or ADD thread drift type responses.

It's not that I don't listen. Its just hard to pay attention. It's kind of like trying to watch a movie with a clown juggling cats, 2 mimes simulating a porno, a contortionist trying to suck his own dick, 19 teenage girls texting, a guy lighting his own farts, and to top it off...a marching band of midgets singing Bohemian Rhapsody in assless chaps.

They have medication for you affliction.:D

[unbison]

I will never read every word on Bisonville since most responses are douche bag and/or ADD thread drift type responses.

It's not that I don't listen. Its just hard to pay attention. It's kind of like trying to watch a movie with a clown juggling cats, 2 mimes simulating a porno, a contortionist trying to suck his own dick, 19 teenage girls texting, a guy lighting his own farts, and to top it off...a marching band of midgets singing Bohemian Rhapsody in assless chaps.

If that's how you feel why do you continue to post? If it's that hard for you to concentrate on the average posters couple phrases...... Do you really think anyone is reading your infinitely longer responses based solely on nonsensical meanderings of your brain?
Idk just saying man

[tjbison]

Montana ad is either playing coy or sounds like they won't be doing coA anytime soon, nor will anyone in the fluffy

God I hope we do this just to piss everyone off even more

[Tatanka]

Montana ad is either playing coy or sounds like they won't be doing coA anytime soon, nor will anyone in the fluffy

God I hope we do this just to piss everyone off even more


^^^^^^^^^^this

Obviously the fluffy is saving up for their pending move to fbs. They must loooooooooooooove flying to Fargo then bussing to grand forks for non revenue sporting events...

[roadwarrior]

Thanks for thr clarification. I typically don't read entire threads during thr offseason since it's typically 20 pages of arguing about nothing but as usual, you have some great info. Thanks again

I kind of hate to point this out, but this is your 7th post in this somewhat very short thread.

[tony]

I kind of hate to point this out, but this is your 7th post in this somewhat very short thread.

And six of them are off-topic?

/ButBigSkyIsTheSECofTheFCS? First, the Idaho State guy saying they are too cash-strapped to compete against each other for recruits and now this.

[BadlandsBison]

I will never read every word on Bisonville since most responses are douche bag and/or ADD thread drift type responses.

It's not that I don't listen. Its just hard to pay attention. It's kind of like trying to watch a movie with a clown juggling cats, 2 mimes simulating a porno, a contortionist trying to suck his own dick, 19 teenage girls texting, a guy lighting his own farts, and to top it off...a marching band of midgets singing Bohemian Rhapsody in assless chaps.
What would it take to get you to stop posting for a few days?

[bisonfan08]

Max of $650,000 using current figures.



Correct.



It's integrated into the scholarship amount calculation. It's not separate.



Not matched 1:1, but there must be some corresponding matching.



Wrong. Really, really wrong. Title IX applies to EVERYTHING. Scholarships, budgets, coaches, facilities. EVERYTHING.



Mostly correct, but just wrong enough in a couple key areas. A school can manipulate the way the calculations are handled to create new scholarships. If NDSU gave out no extra money to any single player but still used the new calculation method, the FB program could squeeze out another five or six scholarships to be distributed among the 85 players. I can back it up with math if anyone wishes.

Yes it applies to everything but I was addressing it based on the question. COA as has been stated numerous times now is not separate from scholarships and there are not an equal number of scholarships distributed between Men's & Women's sports so the dollar amount is not the same. With the Men's sports NDSU offers they are allowed a total of 114.7 scholarships, the women's sports total 77 scholarships. There are an equal number of sports but the dollar amounts attached to COA would not be equal for men's & women's sports, that's all I was saying.

[NDSU1980]

Montana ad is either playing coy or sounds like they won't be doing coA anytime soon, nor will anyone in the fluffy

God I hope we do this just to piss everyone off even moreWhat did you see? Only thing I remember being posted was the Idaho State article. I hope no one in the Fluffy does it though, that would be great.

[BisonNeil]

Mostly correct, but just wrong enough in a couple key areas. A school can manipulate the way the calculations are handled to create new scholarships. If NDSU gave out no extra money to any single player but still used the new calculation method, the FB program could squeeze out another five or six scholarships to be distributed among the 85 players. I can back it up with math if anyone wishes.

That may be true, but it is hard for me to envision the NCAA allowing a school to actually use the new calculation method WITHOUT giving out any extra money. Unless they were a P5 conference of course, which apparently are going to be given carte blanche to do anything they want.

I am also interested in finding out where the $3400 per year came from for NDSU. The P5 conferences that got the COA through the NCAA estimated the costs would be around $2000/yr.

[wtffootballfan]

Article about Montana....http://missoulian.com/sports/college/montana/um-not-close-to-offering-athletes-full-cost-of-attendance/article_7fd0306d-2498-5bba-b675-7dda3d097515.html

[56BISON73]

That may be true, but it is hard for me to envision the NCAA allowing a school to actually use the new calculation method WITHOUT giving out any extra money. Unless they were a P5 conference of course, which apparently are going to be given carte blanche to do anything they want.

I am also interested in finding out where the $3400 per year came from for NDSU. The P5 conferences that got the COA through the NCAA estimated the costs would be around $2000/yr.

If I am correct Matt Larson already knew what the COA was and I thought it was lower than 3500.00.
I also find it difficult to think the NCAA would allow the development of schollies out of the coa. But I can see how the school could give out more money on partials, cutting funds from the full rides but making the cuts back up with the COA money. Which is actually the opposite of what the spirit of the FCOA is ment for.

[wtffootballfan]

U of Mont. is saying COA for them is ranges between $3,228 and $3,928. I would guess NDSU's would be close to the same.

[bisonaudit]

I don't think there's any issue with the spirit of the FCOA. Yesterday you had 85 guys and 63 scholarships you could award. Tomorrow you're going to have 85 guys and 63 scholarships to award. The only difference is you can put more money in the pot as a result of the full cost of attendance rules.

[gumby013]

I'm waiting for a P5 school to declare their COA is something like $50K.

[thebootfitter]

That may be true, but it is hard for me to envision the NCAA allowing a school to actually use the new calculation method WITHOUT giving out any extra money. Unless they were a P5 conference of course, which apparently are going to be given carte blanche to do anything they want.
Methinks you missed Hammersmith's point. No individual player would get money in addition to the full scholarship in this scenario. However, there would be extra money in the pool to award to up to 85 players. It's just that none of those 85 players would get the $3500 above and beyond the full ride.


I am also interested in finding out where the $3400 per year came from for NDSU. The P5 conferences that got the COA through the NCAA estimated the costs would be around $2000/yr.
My understanding is that every school sets their own figure for full cost of attendance above the standard tuition, room/board, books and fees. This amount may vary from one school to the next.

From an admissions perspective, there is incentive to keep this number relatively low to show prospective students that it doesn't cost much extra to attend. It will be interesting to see the impact that FCOA stipends have on these numbers.

[thebootfitter]

My guess is that Larson and company have already determined that NDSU will be going FCOA for football at a minimum (and whatever women's sports would balance that out for Title IX). My guess is that they are behind the scenes figuring out how to make it all work and where the money will come from. I don't think there's any significant advantage for NDSU to announce it publicly until the details are sorted out. It's not like the next signing day is just around the corner.

[NDSUstudent]

At minimum this needs to be done for basketball, that is the sport that is by far and away impacted by this the most.

That said, I think the plan should be do it in MBB/FB and then WBB, VB, Soccer, Softball and Women's Track/CC.

[Tatanka]

At minimum this needs to be done for basketball, that is the sport that is by far and away impacted by this the most.

That said, I think the plan should be do it in MBB/FB and then WBB, VB, Soccer, Softball and Women's Track/CC.

Wrestling.

[NDSUstudent]

Wrestling.

Are a lot of wrestling programs going to do this?

[56BISON73]

Are a lot of wrestling programs going to do this?

Dont care what other schools do. All of our athletes need to be treated equally in this regard. We are committed to excellence. Its what sets us apart.

[NDSU1980]

Dont care what other schools do. All of our athletes need to be treated equally in this regard. We are committed to excellence. Its what sets us apart.

^^^This.^^^

[Tatanka]

Are a lot of wrestling programs going to do this?

Big XII....

[NDSUstudent]

Dont care what other schools do. All of our athletes need to be treated equally in this regard. We are committed to excellence. Its what sets us apart.

Well then we better do it all the way because we can't do nothing.

[56BISON73]

Well then we better do it all the way because we can't do nothing.

I agree.!!!!!!!!!

[Hammersmith]

That may be true, but it is hard for me to envision the NCAA allowing a school to actually use the new calculation method WITHOUT giving out any extra money. Unless they were a P5 conference of course, which apparently are going to be given carte blanche to do anything they want.

I am also interested in finding out where the $3400 per year came from for NDSU. The P5 conferences that got the COA through the NCAA estimated the costs would be around $2000/yr.

Each school is required by federal law to include in their mailings and website an amount that a student would likely need above and beyond the basics of tuition, fees, room, board and books. How a school calculates that number is up to them. Some schools(like NDSU) give a single number for all students. Some schools choose to give one number for in-state residents and another for out-of-state. For lack of a better solution, the NCAA(P5) decided to lock FCOA to that number. The number NDSU is currently reporting is $3400. Thus, that would be the extra FCOA money if NDSU chose to go that route.

http://www.ndsu.edu/admission/cost_tuition/cost/


Students should plan on spending approximately $1,100 per year for books and supplies and approximately $3,400 per year for personal expenses and transportation.


You can find out what the extra amount would be for any school by going to their tuition or financial aid webpage. Some local or counterpart schools:

NDSU: $3400
SDSU: $6798 (I think - tough to get from SDSU)
Minn: $2000
UND: $5810 (same as SDSU)
USD: $4103 (same)
Mont: $3154 - $3854
Mont St: $3330
UNI: $2100 - $2460
ORU: $3634
UNO: $3744
Denver: $2526
YSU: $3773
ISUr: $3830 - $5710

[Tatanka]

Each school is required by federal law to include in their mailings and website an amount that a student would likely need above and beyond the basics of tuition, fees, room, board and books. How a school calculates that number is up to them. Some schools(like NDSU) give a single number for all students. Some schools choose to give one number for in-state residents and another for out-of-state. For lack of a better solution, the NCAA(P5) decided to lock FCOA to that number. The number NDSU is currently reporting is $3400. Thus, that would be the extra FCOA money if NDSU chose to go that route.

http://www.ndsu.edu/admission/cost_tuition/cost/




You can find out what the extra amount would be for any school by going to their tuition or financial aid webpage. Some local or counterpart schools:

NDSU: $3400
SDSU: $6798 (I think - tough to get from SDSU)
Minn: $2000
UND: $5810 (same as SDSU)
USD: $4103 (same)
Mont: $3154 - $3854
Mont St: $3330
UNI: $2100 - $2460
ORU: $3634
UNO: $3744
Denver: $2526
YSU: $3773
ISUr: $3830 - $5710

Why is UN_ almost double NDSU's cost of attendance? Are mock turtlenecks really that expensive? Very interesting.

[Vet70]

Why is UN_ almost double NDSU's cost of attendance? Are mock turtlenecks really that expensive? Very interesting.

To pay for the nickname consultants.

[Hammersmith]

Why is UN_ almost double NDSU's cost of attendance? Are mock turtlenecks really that expensive? Very interesting.

Therapy bills for having to live in GF.

[tjamz]

Why is UN_ almost double NDSU's cost of attendance? Are mock turtlenecks really that expensive? Very interesting.
Those tampons aren't going to soak themselves in vodka

[NDSUstudent]

Why is UN_ almost double NDSU's cost of attendance? Are mock turtlenecks really that expensive? Very interesting.

Everything is more expensive in Canada.

[EC8CH]

Why is UN_ almost double NDSU's cost of attendance? Are mock turtlenecks really that expensive? Very interesting.

Committees Committees Committees

[wtffootballfan]

Each school is required by federal law to include in their mailings and website an amount that a student would likely need above and beyond the basics of tuition, fees, room, board and books. How a school calculates that number is up to them. Some schools(like NDSU) give a single number for all students. Some schools choose to give one number for in-state residents and another for out-of-state. For lack of a better solution, the NCAA(P5) decided to lock FCOA to that number. The number NDSU is currently reporting is $3400. Thus, that would be the extra FCOA money if NDSU chose to go that route.

http://www.ndsu.edu/admission/cost_tuition/cost/




You can find out what the extra amount would be for any school by going to their tuition or financial aid webpage. Some local or counterpart schools:

NDSU: $3400
SDSU: $6798 (I think - tough to get from SDSU)
Minn: $2000
UND: $5810 (same as SDSU)
USD: $4103 (same)
Mont: $3154 - $3854
Mont St: $3330
UNI: $2100 - $2460
ORU: $3634
UNO: $3744
Denver: $2526
YSU: $3773
ISUr: $3830 - $5710

Why would SDSU be that much? Cost of living is a lot less in Brookings than Fargo.

[Bisonguy]

Why would SDSU be that much? Cost of living is a lot less in Brookings than Fargo.

Hunting and fishing, along with the required flannel shirts, ain't cheap.

[td577]

It will be interesting to see how the COA portion gets monitored. At some point, schools will have to publish their methodology for coming up with the figure. I am sure this is going to lead to one method having to be used by all schools. Otherwise, like already stated, how do three schools a couple hours apart from each other without a drastic amount of differences in their surroundings, come up with entirely different numbers. I can see NDSU wanting to keep the number on the low side if they want to show they are offering it to all of their student athletes. un_ wants it on the high side if they are only offering it to hockey. SDSU might not offer it at all, so it doesn't matter to them. The bottom line is who determines if the numbers an institution uses is accurate and reflects the actual cost of attendance for their community? I hear el forko grande rave about their bike friendly city all the time. It should be much cheaper for transportation there.

[IBleedYellow]

I'd personally be pretty happy if NDSU came out and said they will be covering the entire athletic department with COA.

As a teammaker I'd even be willing to double my donation if that's what it would require. Let's make sure that we put our program to be set up for success greater than anyone else around the region.

[56BISON73]

Why is UN_ almost double NDSU's cost of attendance? Are mock turtlenecks really that expensive? Very interesting.

I hear they lose a lot of shoes up there. May be the who dont pick up the cost of medical treatment for lost teeth and frostbite?

[Vet70]

Why is UN_ almost double NDSU's cost of attendance? Are mock turtlenecks really that expensive? Very interesting.

Tattoos on both calves are expensive.

[HerdBot]

Why would SDSU be that much? Cost of living is a lot less in Brookings than Fargo.

Its an hour drive to buy anything so they will rack up gas bills

[wtffootballfan]

Its an hour drive to buy anything so they will rack up gas bills

It's 45 minutes to Sioux Falls at 80 mph (South Dakota's speed limit).

[tjbison]

Why would SDSU be that much? Cost of living is a lot less in Brookings than Fargo.

Shares in the Duluth trading co. Included in tuition

[wtffootballfan]

Found this on anygivensaturday.....

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Re: Liberty First FCS Program to Cover Cost of Attendance
The legislation I read (from the Pac-12) stated for equivalency sports (where they can divide scholarships between multiple students) they will award the FCOA stipend based on the counter as applied to that student.

Say, for instance, let's say Liberty costs $20,000 a year for tuition, books, fees, room and board then this would be the cost of the scholarship (which is applied the same as the old standard before the FCOA legislation). So a full ride would be a counter of 1.0 against the total scholarship limit. This 1.0, as far as an athlete is concerned is the same for any school. It doesn't matter if Liberty only costs $20,000 and another expensive school costs $50,000. As far as the student is concerned their cost of attendance will be covered. So 1.0 at Liberty equals 1.0 at expensive school.

Since FCS is an equivalency sport, as many of you know, a school can divide their scholarships. So Liberty could decide to divide a scholarship between two (or more) kids and they would have a counter applied to them. For instance, if they split the $20,000 scholarship evenly between two kids, they each would become a 0.5 counter against the scholarship limit for a total of 1.0 counter combined.

The new legislation applies the FCOA stipends based on the counters so a student is awarded the FCOA on the percentage equal to their counter.

So how does this change things between Liberty and schools that don't adopt FCOA?

If Liberty determines their FCOA stipend to be $5,000 then any full scholarships athlete with a 1.0 counter would be awarded their $20,000 scholarships plus $5,000 in cash. But if they only give a kid a half scholarships (0.5 counter) then the kid is only able to get half of the FCOA stipend ($2,500). So while Liberty will likely offer some recruits a full 1.0 counter to ensure they don't go to another school, in most instances, they will be able to match a non-FCOA school with much less of an offer against their scholarship limit.

Using the figures above, Liberty could match any non-FCOA school's offer by applying a counter or 0.8 to a recruit. Though a 0.8 counter would only give a kid a 80% scholarship of $16,000 it would also allow the kid to be given 80% of the FCOA stipend which would be $4,000. So in this instance, Liberty is able to cover all of the student's cost of the scholarship, the maximum the non-FCOA school can do, with it counting much less against their scholarship limit.

Under this scenario, the non-FCOA schools would have to offer nearly 74 scholarships to match the number of full scholarship equivalencies that Liberty could offer using their 63.

Really, the best way to think of this is as a salary cap. The scholarship limits were always intended to be a salary cap. But now the FCOA is a fringe benefit that allows certain teams and conferences to raise the salary cap under the guise of looking out for the student athlete.

The BCS conferences know that this will be very effective in ensuring the non-BCS schools are not able to continue the trend of increasing parity. By offering FCOA to all sports the BCS schools will be able to dominate in all sports which includes a lot of the sports like Baseball, Softball, Wrestling, Gymnastics, and LAX which are all starting to see a significant increase in TV viewership with the expansion of conference TV packages. (Did you know the Softball Women's College World Series has posted better TV ratings than the NHL Stanley Cup also held at the same time?)

Non-BCS schools that try to keep up and offer FCOA will ultimately lose out because their limited budgets will result on them not being able to retain coaching staffs. The biggest problem in basketball (where most conferences are deciding to limit the offering of FCOA) is going to be retaining young and talented assistant coaches that are good recruiters.

The times they are a changing and if you're not in a P5 conference you're going to find it much harder for your athletic department to be able to compete.

[Hammersmith]

He's describing basically the same thing I was talking about with equivalencies and using them to create "extra" scholarships. He's just more long-winded than even I am(and that's saying something).


On a side note, I did a more detailed calculation today regarding how much money it would cost NDSU to jump into FCOA. The $650k figure is still accurate to 100% fund the extra scholarships, but a better number is about $450k. That number would allow 100% funding in FB, MBB, WBB, VB, and enough other women's sports to stay compliant. Women's T&F and softball would pretty much take care of it. Maybe a couple in soccer to fill things out.

[bri-dog]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but the school up north is paying COA for one men's sport...

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3725957-und-pay-some-student-athletes-cost-attendance-and-some-living-expenses

[Hammersmith]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but the school up north is paying COA for one men's sport...

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3725957-und-pay-some-student-athletes-cost-attendance-and-some-living-expenses

There's a key point buried in that article:


The NCAA regulates athletic scholarships and of UND’s 21 sports, seven have scholarships funded to the highest possible level according to data from Deputy Director of Athletics Daniella Irle.

So, M/W hockey, M/W basketball, football, volleyball, and ???

If softball, soccer, tennis, T&F, S&D, or golf is fully funded, it sure isn't showing it on the playing field/court/track/pool/course.

[NDSUstudent]

So I guess UND doesn't exactly fit in SiouxVolley's FBS Big Sky.....those numbers are bleak. If COA expands in the Big Sky, some of UND's sports will need to be chopped.

[IzzyFlexion]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but the school up north is paying COA for one men's sport...

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3725957-und-pay-some-student-athletes-cost-attendance-and-some-living-expenses

Will that be in Canadian dollars?

[bri-dog]

Will that be in Canadian dollars?

That would just be Loonie.*




*yeah, that was bad.

[Vet70]

It is interesting to me that Faison believes that UND doesn't have to have COA in football in order to remain competitive because the Big Sky is not interested. He seems to be saying that the Big Sky is the entire universe of FCS competition.

[Bisonator98]

There's a key point buried in that article:



So, M/W hockey, M/W basketball, football, volleyball, and ???

If softball, soccer, tennis, T&F, S&D, or golf is fully funded, it sure isn't showing it on the playing field/court/track/pool/course.

Wow they are only fully funding 7 sports? 21 sports being funded half arsed is just not smart.

[NDSUstudent]

It is interesting to me that Faison believes that UND doesn't have to have COA in football in order to remain competitive because the Big Sky is not interested. He seems to be saying that the Big Sky is the entire universe of FCS competition.

Honestly I don't think football not having COA is a big deal for them, basketball is a much bigger deal though. Not a lot of FCS programs are going to do this, few can afford it but in basketball a number of regional programs have already committed to it.

The Horizon of course has mandated it and per UNI's AD all of the MVC will do it.

[NDSU1980]

It is interesting to me that Faison believes that UND doesn't have to have COA in football in order to remain competitive because the Big Sky is not interested. He seems to be saying that the Big Sky is the entire universe of FCS competition.

Well it looks like none of the Montana schools are going down the COA road either. So, let the Fluffy continue the way they are. We, on the other hand can keep stepping it up.

[Mr Meaty]

Would a school not have to do this for every program? Doing it for some programs and not all really say something to the sports you do not .

[NDSUstudent]

Would a school not have to do this for every program? Doing it for some programs and not all really say something to the sports you do not .

Only so much money to go around, outside of the FBS most schools will make sure basketball or in UND's case hockey is taken care of.

[westnodak93bison]

So you post without reading threads yet you start new threads......that explains a ton

Do you have conversations with people without listening?
Why wife says I do :mad:

[Hammersmith]

Would a school not have to do this for every program? Doing it for some programs and not all really say something to the sports you do not .

They're already saying that. 7 sports up there are fully funded, while 14 sports are not.

[unbison]

Who cares what they do..... You guys say you don't care but a group of you turn every thread into a trashing of und if you didn't care you wouldn't bring it up

[DIBISON]

Who cares what they do..... You guys say you don't care but a group of you turn every thread into a trashing of und if you didn't care you wouldn't bring it up
I don't care but I'm sure NDSU administrators and coaches do, because these decisions will affect recruiting battles in football and basketball.

[Mr Meaty]

That is why NDSU has to be all in one this. All our student athletes are important.

[Hammersmith]

Who cares what they do..... You guys say you don't care but a group of you turn every thread into a trashing of und if you didn't care you wouldn't bring it up

When there was an article about Montana and COA, we talked about Montana. If Zimmer writes an article in the Argus about SDSU and COA, we'll talk about SDSU. If we hear new information about any other conference or nearby school in regards to COA, we'll talk about them. Last night, a new article with new information appeared about UND and COA. Is it really so shocking that we'd talk about them for a day or so?

And of course it's important what they do. We compete against them for recruits in football, basketball, volleyball, and other sports. Just like we do with SDSU, USD, UNI, etc. We affect them and they affect us.

The fact we can have fun with it at the same time is just a bonus.

[Mr Meaty]

When there was an article about Montana and COA, we talked about Montana. If Zimmer writes an article in the Argus about SDSU and COA, we'll talk about SDSU. If we hear new information about any other conference or nearby school in regards to COA, we'll talk about them. Last night, a new article with new information appeared about UND and COA. Is it really so shocking that we'd talk about them for a day or so?

And of course it's important what they do. We compete against them for recruits in football, basketball, volleyball, and other sports. Just like we do with SDSU, USD, UNI, etc. We affect them and they affect us.

The fact we can have fun with it at the same time is just a bonus.

Reps coming your way. I support this message

[unbison]

We compete with them for football recruits? Who have they signed that we wanted in basketball or football


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[NDSU1980]

We compete with them for football recruits? Who have they signed that we wanted in basketball or football


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No one, but we aim to keep it that way. Nothing wrong with pointing out that UN_ isn't doing what we are doing. We moved up to D1 and they didn't do it for years. We talked about that too.

[Mr Meaty]

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[unbison]

We have said we are gonna pay COA? Where was that publicly stated


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[Bisonator98]

We compete with them for football recruits? Who have they signed that we wanted in basketball or football


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Mollberg for one but that turned out OK I guess.

[NDSUstudent]

Mollberg for one but that turned out OK I guess.

Yeah there has been a few I guess. Hooker for basketball is another.

[Elroy]

We compete with them for football recruits? Who have they signed that we wanted in basketball or football


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Elijah Grady from New Town signed there this year

[unbison]

We wanted him? Same offer?


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[Elroy]

I believe he had full from them and either a partial or PWO from NDSU

[tjbison]

I believe he had full from them and either a partial or PWO from NDSU

Not the same level then

[A1pigskin]

Not the same level then

Yep, not the same level.....

[Bisonwinagn]

Who cares what they do..... You guys say you don't care but a group of you turn every thread into a trashing of und if you didn't care you wouldn't bring it up

Thanks for ruining this thread you stupid fuck. This was the first civilized conversion about UND in 10 years on a topic that is relevant and there was not one negative comment about them until you started it. Go crawl back in your hole where you belong.

[unbison]

I made no negative comments about UND.... Better look back as there were plenty by others as for me being a stupid fuck .... Coming from you I will definitely know I'm barking in the right direction


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[NDSUstudent]

The article brought up a very interesting point about UND, they only fully fund 1/3 of the sports on their campus. That info hasn't exactly been common knowledge, most of us knew they would fund men's hockey COA but we didn't know their thoughts on other sports. It was relevant to the discussion here for sure.

[scottietohottie]

Elijah Grady from New Town signed there this year

herd the whoiux offered cost of attedance.

[BYZEN]

The article brought up a very interesting point about UND, they only fully fund 1/3 of the sports on their campus. That info hasn't exactly been common knowledge, most of us knew they would fund men's hockey COA but we didn't know their thoughts on other sports. It was relevant to the discussion here for sure.

Also interesting to me was the implication that some sports may have to see some cuts in order to fund the FCOA if I read that right. I wonder which sports would get chopped?

[NDSUstudent]

Also interesting to me was the implication that some sports may have to see some cuts in order to fund the FCOA if I read that right. I wonder which sports would get chopped?

If they were smart they would get rid of women's hockey but they seem committed to it so I would guess baseball. It isn't a Big Sky sport, that plus the weather and travel is a built in excuse to get rid of it.

[Tatanka]

Thanks for ruining this thread you stupid fuck. This was the first civilized conversion about UND in 10 years on a topic that is relevant and there was not one negative comment about them until you started it. Go crawl back in your hole where you belong.

Personal attack unwarranted and unnecessary. In my opinion of course.

[Bison Dan]

herd the whoiux offered cost of attedance.You need to read this:


http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3725957-und-pay-some-student-athletes-cost-attendance-and-some-living-expenses

[scottietohottie]

You need to read this:


http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3725957-und-pay-some-student-athletes-cost-attendance-and-some-living-expenses

oh i was inferring to him getting cost of attendance just like his dad got.

[BadlandsBison]

I wonder if the big skirt will make a no cost of attendance rule.

Northern Colorado agrees :)

[tjbison]

oh i was refereeing to him getting cost of attendance just like his dad got.

Are you inferring due to him coming from a reservation?

[NorthernBison]

If they were smart they would get rid of women's hockey but they seem committed to it so I would guess baseball. It isn't a Big Sky sport, that plus the weather and travel is a built in excuse to get rid of it.

Women's hockey is vital to Title IX compliance. They won't be making changes there.

I doubt any sports will be discontinued. Any cuts would be funding and only on the men's side.

If NDSU and the rest of the MVFC add COA for football, they can forget about recruiting the region. They will only get the leftovers.

[td577]

Women's hockey is vital to Title IX compliance. They won't be making changes there.

I doubt any sports will be discontinued. Any cuts would be funding and only on the men's side.

If NDSU and the rest of the MVFC add COA for football, they can forget about recruiting the region. They will only get the leftovers.

I don't know where the article is, but there are a buttload of schools decimating their athletic programs to post coa to their identified revenue passive teams and women opportunity counterparts. This seems to be a popular approach. I am not saying and schools mentioned in this thread will go that route, but it wouldn't surprise me if dine made that choice given other schools already have.

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[NorthernBison]

I don't know where the article is, but there are a buttload of schools decimating their athletic programs to post coa to their identified revenue passive teams and women opportunity counterparts. This seems to be a popular approach. I am not saying and schools mentioned in this thread will go that route, but it wouldn't surprise me if dine made that choice given other schools already have.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Maybe.

I just don't think 36 COA equivalents is enough money to dump a sport.

Now, adding them for all sports is a different discussion.

[NDSUstudent]

Women's hockey is vital to Title IX compliance. They won't be making changes there.

I doubt any sports will be discontinued. Any cuts would be funding and only on the men's side.

If NDSU and the rest of the MVFC add COA for football, they can forget about recruiting the region. They will only get the leftovers.

What is there even left to cut on the men's side at UND? They fund MBB at a bare bones level, FB is adequate at the FCS level, hockey gets whatever they want and the rest get scraps. Hockey won't get any cuts, that just leaves football if they aren't going to cut an entire program.

[NorthernBison]

What is there even left to cut on the men's side at UND? They fund MBB at a bare bones level, FB is adequate at the FCS level, hockey gets whatever they want and the rest get scraps. Hockey won't get any cuts, that just leaves football if they aren't going to cut an entire program.

Recruiting budgets, assistant coaches/salaries, maybe a scholarship here or there. They could do it on the women's side too as long as it is balanced.

At 36, we're talking somewhere between $100 and $150k. That's if they chose the fund with cuts rather than increased revenue.

The story is a fluff piece anyway. I don't believe there is ANY intention to make cuts to fund COA for hockey.

[BYZEN]

What is there even left to cut on the men's side at UND? They fund MBB at a bare bones level, FB is adequate at the FCS level, hockey gets whatever they want and the rest get scraps. Hockey won't get any cuts, that just leaves football if they aren't going to cut an entire program.

They pay the coach minimum wage:rofl:

[Vet70]

What do folks think is most likely to happen at NDSU?

[NDSUstudent]

Recruiting budgets, assistant coaches/salaries, maybe a scholarship here or there. They could do it on the women's side too as long as it is balanced.

At 36, we're talking somewhere between $100 and $150k. That's if they chose the fund with cuts rather than increased revenue.

The story is a fluff piece anyway. I don't believe there is ANY intention to make cuts to fund COA for hockey.

Honestly I wonder at this point why UND is even in DI? Running everything but hockey at the minimum level isn't a path to success.

If COA expands, they are screwed.

[tjbison]

What do folks think is most likely to happen at NDSU?

Fund what we need to, I'm sure it's already got an action plan, just doubt they are announcing it to the world till they know what they will and will not do

[Tatanka]

but hockey.


I think I've captured the essence of their counterargument.

[NDSU1980]

I wonder if the big skirt will make a no cost of attendance rule.

Northern Colorado agrees :)
I think, and I could be wrong, but I believe the NCAA put a stipulation in that conferences can't ban members from participating in this. Otherwise, the have nots would try and screw over the haves, just like they did 35 years ago with the D2 scholarships.

[td577]

I think, and I could be wrong, but I believe the NCAA put a stipulation in that conferences can't ban members from participating in this. Otherwise, the have nots would try and screw over the haves, just like they did 35 years ago with the D2 scholarships.


I do think there will come a point when conferences will challenge one school offering the max allowable while a comparable school is not. Somehow the metric used by each institution will eventually come into question. I also wonder how student fees will be scrutinized from here forward. I can't see any circumstance where it would be ok to shuffle funds where it ends up that one student is paying for another. I am completely for the COA.and want it for every student athlete. I also want the system to be either fair or non-existent.

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[Hammersmith]

I think, and I could be wrong, but I believe the NCAA put a stipulation in that conferences can't ban members from participating in this. Otherwise, the have nots would try and screw over the haves, just like they did 35 years ago with the D2 scholarships.

It's not the NCAA. The individual conferences are worried about being pulled into current lawsuits like this one:

http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2014/03/06/3369971/another-antitrust-lawsuit-hits-the-ncaa/

The new rules explicitly allow conferences to forbid members from using the new P5 legislation(including FCOA). But the fear of litigation from student-athletes makes that conference ability moot for the time being.

[Hail bison]

Women's hockey is vital to Title IX compliance. They won't be making changes there.

I doubt any sports will be discontinued. Any cuts would be funding and only on the men's side.

If NDSU and the rest of the MVFC add COA for football, they can forget about recruiting the region. They will only get the leftovers.

Could you explain that last sentence? I'm skimming through this thread trying to catch up

[td577]

Could you explain that last sentence? I'm skimming through this thread trying to catch up

I think he meant Canadians who pay football.

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[Hail bison]

I think he meant Canadians who pay football.

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Ah shit, how did I read that wrong? Thanks td

[56BISON73]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but the school up north is paying COA for one men's sport...

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3725957-und-pay-some-student-athletes-cost-attendance-and-some-living-expenses

"" amended grant-in-aid "" ?????

They cant even call it what everyone else does.:facepalm:

[scottietohottie]

"" amended grant-in-aid "" ?????

They cant even call it what everyone else does.:facepalm:

They already use cost of attendance that's what they pay their hockey fans to go to other sporting events. :rofl:

[THEsocalledfan]

I loved the Herald article. Best part was they said it was only necessary in hockey as they don't need it to be competitive in other sports. I guess the part I did not follow was this insinuates they are somehow competitive in other sports? And has it not crossed their mind that their supposed "little brother" to the south will likely go this route? But they are the "flagship", right?

We have always known they are "but hockey," but my goodness, this is a new extreme.

[td577]

I loved the Herald article. Best part was they said it was only necessary in hockey as they don't need it to be competitive in other sports. I guess the part I did not follow was this insinuates they are somehow competitive in other sports? And has it not crossed their mind that their supposed "little brother" to the south will likely go this route? But they are the "flagship", right?

We have always known they are "but hockey," but my goodness, this is a new extreme.

Translation: They won't suck any worse without it.

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[NDSUstudent]

I will say that I am very impressed with how Matt Larsen has handled this. He has carried a very positive message about it since the start, he seems to be taking a proactive approach while other ADs are being more reactive and negative about this.

[El_Chapo]

I will say that I am very impressed with how Matt Larsen has handled this. He has carried a very positive message about it since the start, he seems to be taking a proactive approach while other ADs are being more reactive and negative about this.

If he isn't selling ndsu then he isn't doing his job. The COA is a must for ndsu of course he has to do it how is that "handling" it?

[Vet70]

I loved the Herald article. Best part was they said it was only necessary in hockey as they don't need it to be competitive in other sports. I guess the part I did not follow was this insinuates they are somehow competitive in other sports? And has it not crossed their mind that their supposed "little brother" to the south will likely go this route? But they are the "flagship", right?

We have always known they are "but hockey," but my goodness, this is a new extreme.

If we go that route, it will be just like the transition to D1---we will lead and they will follow, if they can.

[StL Bison Fan]

So they fund scholarships with donations, tickets, merchandise, etc.
This is where the rubber meets the road. You know the other sports will/do fund hockies.
So, football and other attendance will matter. What about their booster club? Will they step it up?
If ndsu decides to do this you can expect fundraising to ramp up and fans to step up.
Makes you understand how winning not just in football really helps.

[NDSUstudent]

I don't really care about UND in regards to COA, if we do it and do it the right way we will be a leader in regards to all mid-major schools. This is the time to be a leader, COA isn't some fad it is the new reality in DI and cost of doing business.

[StL Bison Fan]

I don't really care about UND in regards to COA, if we do it and do it the right way we will be a leader in regards to all mid-major schools. This is the time to be a leader, COA isn't some fad it is the new reality in DI and cost of doing business.

Actually, they probably will be a good model on what not to do.

[56BISON73]

I don't really care about UND in regards to COA, if we do it and do it the right way we will be a leader in regards to all mid-major schools. This is the time to be a leader, COA isn't some fad it is the new reality in DI and cost of doing business.

They(und) are distended to play catch up again.

[bri-dog]

They(und) are distended to play catch up again.

dis·tend·ed/diˈstendəd/


adjective


swollen due to pressure from inside; bloated.






LOL -- yeah, that's about right... :biggrin:

[Tatanka]

dis·tend·ed/diˈstendəd/


adjective


swollen due to pressure from inside; bloated.






LOL -- yeah, that's about right... :biggrin:


Spot on....

[THEsocalledfan]

this is the time to be a leader, coa isn't some fad it is the new reality in di and cost of doing business.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^

[tjbison]

I don't really care about UND in regards to COA, if we do it and do it the right way we will be a leader in regards to all mid-major schools. This is the time to be a leader, COA isn't some fad it is the new reality in DI and cost of doing business.

exactly, do it or get out, this will separate the posers from the real players, we better be on the latter end

[Bisonwinagn]

exactly, do it or get out, this will separate the posers from the real players, we better be on the latter end

You could be on to something. This is probably the beginning of schools dropping some sports to be able to fully fund the most important ones. It wouldn't surprise me to see schools specializing not just because of COA but costs in general.

[bisonaudit]

The arms race has been on for a long time before Cost of Attendance came on the scene. Schools have to spend whatever they raise. The more you raise the more stuff you can throw at recruits. Before Cost of Attendance it was indirect via coaches and facilities and staff and all that other shiny stuff. At least now the players receive a more direct benefit from the arms race that was already occurring and will inevitably continue.

[THEsocalledfan]

You could be on to something. This is probably the beginning of schools dropping some sports to be able to fully fund the most important ones. It wouldn't surprise me to see schools specializing not just because of COA but costs in general.

We did touch on this early in this thread. Biggest issues is D1 minimum sports; NDSU is near it, but sounds like FCS schools can have a few less than FBS.

With that said, I keep coming back to: You add $5-10/ticket/game to football tickets, and can fund this without robbing from somewhere else.

[BadlandsBison]

Looks like raising coach salaries is on hold for awhile haha

[NDSUstudent]

We did touch on this early in this thread. Biggest issues is D1 minimum sports; NDSU is near it, but sounds like FCS schools can have a few less than FBS.

With that said, I keep coming back to: You add $5-10/ticket/game to football tickets, and can fund this without robbing from somewhere else.

Team makers already slapped a $25 donation on a number of seats that didn't have them, I would guess that would be a start in this direction.

[1998braves64]

Team makers already slapped a $25 donation on a number of seats that didn't have them, I would guess that would be a start in this direction.


And moving toward pretty much requiring to be a teammaker to even get a shot at direct tickets from NDSU, plus they still have season tickets from row AA up on endzone too. These both should generate some revenue to teammakers.

[Hammersmith]

So they fund scholarships with donations, tickets, merchandise, etc.
This is where the rubber meets the road. You know the other sports will/do fund hockies.
So, football and other attendance will matter. What about their booster club? Will they step it up?
If ndsu decides to do this you can expect fundraising to ramp up and fans to step up.
Makes you understand how winning not just in football really helps.

My post got eaten last night, but I'll try to quickly recap.

I don't think they can. When NDSU moved up, we had tons of room to grow in FB seat fees(TM). We were several thousand below FD capacity, several thousand below max season tickets, seat fees were well below what the market eventually would bear, and there are still grandfathered seats left to deal with. That has allowed TM fundraising to climb from $650k just before the DI move to $3.3M today(and that number will rise next year). On top of that, I think TM might be able to squeeze about a million out of basketball seat fees within a few years with the new SHAC and if the men keep winning and making NCAA appearances. Together, that could cover all current scholarships, full stipends, another sport, and maybe even FBS scholarships. Okay, that might be stretching it. But I think TM could get really close.

But I don't think UND can get close. They were already maxed out in attendance and season ticket sales in their principal sport. Their seat fees were already quite high. They reseated when they moved to the Ralph, so I don't think they have grandfathered seats. What that all means is that they went from $2M at the start of the DI move to $2.8M today. A nice improvement in most circumstances, but not when you're moving 19 sports to DI(and have 2 already there). I did some calculations last night, and I think they're funding their men's sports at about 80% and their women's at 90%. That works out to be about 40 scholarships short of max. And their booster organization is over a million shy of paying for what they've got now. And they want significant FCOA scholarships on top of that? They'll point to football and say they have room for growth there, but I don't know if they can get enough demand to justify additional seat fees on top of hockey. And don't even start with MBB. Ticket sales are always nice, but the real money's in seat fees.

Okay, so the recap turned out longer than the original. Sick and sleep deprived.

[BYZEN]

My post got eaten last night, but I'll try to quickly recap.

I don't think they can. When NDSU moved up, we had tons of room to grow in FB seat fees(TM). We were several thousand below FD capacity, several thousand below max season tickets, seat fees were well below what the market eventually would bear, and there are still grandfathered seats left to deal with. That has allowed TM fundraising to climb from $650k just before the DI move to $3.3M today(and that number will rise next year). On top of that, I think TM might be able to squeeze about a million out of basketball seat fees within a few years with the new SHAC and if the men keep winning and making NCAA appearances. Together, that could cover all current scholarships, full stipends, another sport, and maybe even FBS scholarships. Okay, that might be stretching it. But I think TM could get really close.

But I don't think UND can get close. They were already maxed out in attendance and season ticket sales in their principal sport. Their seat fees were already quite high. They reseated when they moved to the Ralph, so I don't think they have grandfathered seats. What that all means is that they went from $2M at the start of the DI move to $2.8M today. A nice improvement in most circumstances, but not when you're moving 19 sports to DI(and have 2 already there). I did some calculations last night, and I think they're funding their men's sports at about 80% and their women's at 90%. That works out to be about 40 scholarships short of max. And their booster organization is over a million shy of paying for what they've got now. And they want significant FCOA scholarships on top of that? They'll point to football and say they have room for growth there, but I don't know if they can get enough demand to justify additional seat fees on top of hockey. And don't even start with MBB. Ticket sales are always nice, but the real money's in seat fees.

Okay, so the recap turned out longer than the original. Sick and sleep deprived.

Does that post got eaten last night work with the students yet?*:rofl:

*(Didn't work 40ish years ago.)**:hide:

**[With a kid in my class.]:innocent:

[Tatanka]

My post got eaten last night, but I'll try to quickly recap.

I don't think they can. When NDSU moved up, we had tons of room to grow in FB seat fees(TM). We were several thousand below FD capacity, several thousand below max season tickets, seat fees were well below what the market eventually would bear, and there are still grandfathered seats left to deal with. That has allowed TM fundraising to climb from $650k just before the DI move to $3.3M today(and that number will rise next year). On top of that, I think TM might be able to squeeze about a million out of basketball seat fees within a few years with the new SHAC and if the men keep winning and making NCAA appearances. Together, that could cover all current scholarships, full stipends, another sport, and maybe even FBS scholarships. Okay, that might be stretching it. But I think TM could get really close.

But I don't think UND can get close. They were already maxed out in attendance and season ticket sales in their principal sport. Their seat fees were already quite high. They reseated when they moved to the Ralph, so I don't think they have grandfathered seats. What that all means is that they went from $2M at the start of the DI move to $2.8M today. A nice improvement in most circumstances, but not when you're moving 19 sports to DI(and have 2 already there). I did some calculations last night, and I think they're funding their men's sports at about 80% and their women's at 90%. That works out to be about 40 scholarships short of max. And their booster organization is over a million shy of paying for what they've got now. And they want significant FCOA scholarships on top of that? They'll point to football and say they have room for growth there, but I don't know if they can get enough demand to justify additional seat fees on top of hockey. And don't even start with MBB. Ticket sales are always nice, but the real money's in seat fees.

Okay, so the recap turned out longer than the original. Sick and sleep deprived.

If I may be so bold as to add... I would love to see the actual revenue that UN_ captures from its sports that are played in the Ralph/Betty (not the gross revenues that the venue receives, the actual payment to UN_ athletics). I'm betting it's a lot LOT less than you might think it is, minus booster club seat fees, of course.

Obviously, the tin shed isn't netting them much now. That's their growth area.

[NDSU1980]

My post got eaten last night, but I'll try to quickly recap.

I don't think they can. When NDSU moved up, we had tons of room to grow in FB seat fees(TM). We were several thousand below FD capacity, several thousand below max season tickets, seat fees were well below what the market eventually would bear, and there are still grandfathered seats left to deal with. That has allowed TM fundraising to climb from $650k just before the DI move to $3.3M today(and that number will rise next year). On top of that, I think TM might be able to squeeze about a million out of basketball seat fees within a few years with the new SHAC and if the men keep winning and making NCAA appearances. Together, that could cover all current scholarships, full stipends, another sport, and maybe even FBS scholarships. Okay, that might be stretching it. But I think TM could get really close.

But I don't think UND can get close. They were already maxed out in attendance and season ticket sales in their principal sport. Their seat fees were already quite high. They reseated when they moved to the Ralph, so I don't think they have grandfathered seats. What that all means is that they went from $2M at the start of the DI move to $2.8M today. A nice improvement in most circumstances, but not when you're moving 19 sports to DI(and have 2 already there). I did some calculations last night, and I think they're funding their men's sports at about 80% and their women's at 90%. That works out to be about 40 scholarships short of max. And their booster organization is over a million shy of paying for what they've got now. And they want significant FCOA scholarships on top of that? They'll point to football and say they have room for growth there, but I don't know if they can get enough demand to justify additional seat fees on top of hockey. And don't even start with MBB. Ticket sales are always nice, but the real money's in seat fees.

Okay, so the recap turned out longer than the original. Sick and sleep deprived.
So that means in an arms race with us, UN_ would go broke, just like President Reagan did to the Soviet Union with the arms race in the 80's? I like this strategy. Make it too expensive for them to compete.

[Vet70]

So that means in an arms race with us, UN_ would go broke, just like President Reagan did to the Soviet Union with the arms race in the 80's? I like this strategy. Make it too expensive for them to compete.

I think that there is a good chance they are already at a breaking point.

[bisonaudit]

So that means in an arms race with us, UN_ would go broke, just like President Reagan did to the Soviet Union with the arms race in the 80's? I like this strategy. Make it too expensive for them to compete.

This is a fine analogy so long as our competition is limited just to them. But we don't actually care about them so...

[NDSU1980]

This is a fine analogy so long as our competition is limited just to them. But we don't actually care about them so...

I'm sure it won't cost any more to out spend SDSU, so consider it a 2 for 1.

[Hammersmith]

I'm sure it won't cost any more to out spend SDSU, so consider it a 2 for 1.

Have to say one thing about SDSU, they have a much smaller overall budget than either ND school, but they spend an amount on scholarships that's right in between. And USD spends almost the same amount on scholarships as NDSU despite have an athletic budget that's half as much($10M).

[Bisonator98]

Sounds like UND is going to burden their students for cost of the FCOA. That sounds like a great plan to help their struggling enrollment numbers!

[td577]

Sounds like UND is going to burden their students for cost of the FCOA. That sounds like a great plan to help their struggling enrollment numbers!

This is the one thing you can't do with the cost of attendance. You can't have other students footing the bill so another student can go to school. In fact, I could see some grant programs stepping in and messing with institutions who have a sudden increase in financial requirements coinciding with implementing the coa.

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[Vet70]

This is the one thing you can't do with the cost of attendance. You can't have other students footing the bill so another student can go to school. In fact, I could see some grant programs stepping in and messing with institutions who have a sudden increase in financial requirements coinciding with implementing the coa.

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I am sure that the legislature will call for immediate audits the second that there is even a hint of impropriety.

[Bisonator98]

This is the one thing you can't do with the cost of attendance. You can't have other students footing the bill so another student can go to school. In fact, I could see some grant programs stepping in and messing with institutions who have a sudden increase in financial requirements coinciding with implementing the coa.

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That's exactly what the current student fee subsidies are doing.

[td577]

That's exactly what the current student fee subsidies are doing.

Not directly. If you were to audit the process, the fees should look like they are supporting costs associated with their first hand experience. Fitness center, program costs, etc. Then money coming in from other sources can look like they are going to those other costs. It will be tough to argue when on day one there is no coa and fees are $1 and no other institutional changes are made and on day two there is the new coa for student/athletes and fees are now $2. Someone is going to have to have a conniption and probably rightfully so. The appearance Suzie will have higher costs directly associated with getting Johnnie to play football won't go over well with more than just Suzie and her parents.

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[bisonaudit]

Not directly. If you were to audit the process, the fees should look like they are supporting costs associated with their first hand experience. Fitness center, program costs, etc. Then money coming in from other sources can look like they are going to those other costs. It will be tough to argue when on day one there is no coa and fees are $1 and no other institutional changes are made and on day two there is the new coa for student/athletes and fees are now $2. Someone is going to have to have a conniption and probably rightfully so. The appearance Suzie will have higher costs directly associated with getting Johnnie to play football won't go over well with more than just Suzie and her parents.

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I'm fairly sure that what actually happens is that the student Senate votes every year to ship a million bucks in student fees to the athletic department. The same way they fund a chunk of the budget for a hundred on campus organizations, the movie and entertainment programs in the union, the newspaper, etc.

[NDSU1980]

I'm fairly sure that what actually happens is that the student Senate votes every year to ship a million bucks in student fees to the athletic department. The same way they fund a chunk of the budget for a hundred on campus organizations, the movie and entertainment programs in the union, the newspaper, etc.
Actually, it's the Finance Commission that sets the amount of money that goes to each organization. Student Senate only approves or vetoes the final draft, then it gets signed by Brescani. I was on the Finance Commission all four years of my college career, so I know how it works. Certain budgets always had figure we had to achieve and athletics was one of them. Total men's athletic budget in the late 70's was something like $470,000, with $160,000+ coming from student activity fees. Teammakers was only slightly higher.

I always pushed for a higher figure for athletics and cuts to a lot of other budgets. Gotta have the right priorities.

[A1pigskin]

It's just a matter of time before NDSU does this. Just wait until other schools start taking players in our back yard due to this rule.

[Vet70]

It's just a matter of time before NDSU does this. Don't wait until other schools start taking players in our back yard due to this rule.

This might be a better way to go.

[A1pigskin]

This might be a better way to go.

This is probably how it will play out.

[NDSUstudent]

Montana State's take on COA....


“I think in theory, if we can do more for the players, that would be great,” Ash said. “Even though our players have full scholarships, they don’t have the opportunity to work a full-time job, they have to find a way to pay for their cellphone or their car or their registration or their insurance … those things cost money.

“It’s not really my call here at Montana State. I know the issue is huge, but it would take a big amount of money. And I’m not sitting here saying we have to do it. I know the financial realities.”

Of course, some players are better taken care of than others. Those from more affluent families have the means to handle expenses. And those who are underprivileged can apply for Pell Grants, another form of financial aid made available by the U.S. Department of Education.

But those in the middle, Ash said, are the ones who get crunched.

Most amazing is the case of Billings West product Caleb Schreibeis, who Ash said may have had to give up football after his sophomore season had he not been given a scholarship. Schreibeis, Ash said, simply couldn’t afford to be a walk-on any longer.

“It got to the point in the last meeting I had with him that year that I was able to give him a scholarship, thankfully,” Ash said. “If he hadn’t have earned that scholarship I think he possibly would have had to quit.”

Can you imagine? One of the most dominant pass rushers in MSU history and one of only six players in Big Sky Conference history to win the Buck Buchanan Award as the best defensive player in the FCS may have never got a chance solely due to financial happenstance.

Ash also talked about Shadeed Crockett, a receiver from Champlin, Minn., who was forced to leave the Bobcats and transfer to North Dakota State because he had access to cheaper in-state tuition costs.

He didn't have the money to stay in Bozeman.

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/blogs/catgrizinsider/ash-full-cost-of-attendance-stipends-good-for-athletes/article_3ec88803-bbb8-531e-816e-b73abdd624c6.html

[tony]

Let's face it, no matter how much money P5 schools take in, they'll find ways to spend it all and more - mostly on coaches. I won't be surprised when the first $100 million coaching contract gets signed.

At least FCOA goes to students, but it will put significant pressure on a lot of schools. Eventually this pressure will cause a break in college athletics between the college programs and the college-branded minor leagues teams (unless the P5 implodes before that happens.) In the meantime, I'd expect NDSU to position its programs for success.

[bisonaudit]

Let's face it, no matter how much money P5 schools take in, they'll find ways to spend it all and more - mostly on coaches. I won't be surprised when the first $100 million coaching contract gets signed.

At least FCOA goes to students, but it will put significant pressure on a lot of schools. Eventually this pressure will cause a break in college athletics between the college programs and the college-branded minor leagues teams (unless the P5 implodes before that happens.) In the meantime, I'd expect NDSU to position its programs for success.

the pressure you describe in paragraph two was happening anyway because of the situation you describe in paragraph one.

[MAKBison]

So that means in an arms race with us, UN_ would go broke, just like President Reagan did to the Soviet Union with the arms race in the 80's? I like this strategy. Make it too expensive for them to compete.

Me thinks NDSU should offer the COA stipend to all Scholly sports with the goal of supporting all athletes. It would give us a super recruiting advantage over the regional schools.

[CAS4127]

Speaking of supporting our athletes:
Many of our Student-Athletes at NDSU stay in Fargo over the summer to continue their strength and conditioning workouts and are looking for employment.

If you have any summer job openings and would be interested in hiring a Bison student-athlete please contact Brian Gordon at brian.gordon@ndsu.edu or 701-793-0502.



Helena Johnston
Athletic Program Assistant
NORTH DAKOTA STATE UNIVERSITY

Dept 1200, PO Box 6050
Fargo, ND 58108-6050
Ph: 701-231-6172 Fax: 701-231-6246
helena.johnston@ndsu.edu

Description: cid:image001.png@01CB589F.FF616B50





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[cbline]

Speaking of supporting our athletes:
Many of our Student-Athletes at NDSU stay in Fargo over the summer to continue their strength and conditioning workouts and are looking for employment.

If you have any summer job openings and would be interested in hiring a Bison student-athlete please contact Brian Gordon at brian.gordon@ndsu.edu or 701-793-0502.



Helena Johnston
Athletic Program Assistant
NORTH DAKOTA STATE UNIVERSITY

Dept 1200, PO Box 6050
Fargo, ND 58108-6050
Ph: 701-231-6172 Fax: 701-231-6246
helena.johnston@ndsu.edu

Description: cid:image001.png@01CB589F.FF616B50





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just be sure that it is a legit job, NOT like the fake car dealership job that Rhett Bomar got!!!

[NorthernBison]

Just be sure that it is a legit job, NOT like the fake car dealership job that Rhett Bomar got!!!

Of course. And contact Brian just like the email says.

[Hammersmith]

Summer school scholarships are another thing that needs to be funded at a higher level than at present. ML commented on it early in the FCOA discussion. He said in an interview that they wanted to prioritize summer school first and FCOA second. I don't know if that's still true or not.

[1998braves64]

https://twitter.com/FGOSPORTSWRITER/status/605376297703907328

Looking forward to this...
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[Mr Meaty]

https://twitter.com/FGOSPORTSWRITER/status/605376297703907328

Looking forward to this...
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.
Who is going to help Kolpack with the math?

[Tatanka]

Who is going to help Kolpack with the math?

I'd be happy to.

[Hammersmith]

Will be interesting to see how much he gets wrong. Kinda scary that he thinks it's so hard(it isn't).

[1998braves64]

Will be interesting to see how much he gets wrong. Kinda scary that he thinks it's so hard(it isn't).

Probably a bit tongue in cheek maybe? Just likely a lot of numbers to deal with in ways that he typically isn't use to doing, 12/15 with 5TDs and 0 INTs is a bit different than x/y=z%? Some of us work with numbers every day so it's not as intimidating.

[THEsocalledfan]

https://twitter.com/FGOSPORTSWRITER/status/605376297703907328

Looking forward to this...
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

So, here he is writing about it again, and certainly he and Izzo have done extensive broadcasting on this. Is this pretty much a "done deal?" I still see some on the Hitler Youth board don't think NDSU will do FCOA since they won't do it in sports not called the hockies.

[Tatanka]

Probably a bit tongue in cheek maybe? Just likely a lot of numbers to deal with in ways that he typically isn't use to doing, 12/15 with 5TDs and 0 INTs is a bit different than x/y=z%? Some of us work with numbers every day so it's not as intimidating.


Honestly, and I say this politely because I think Jeff is a good guy, if history is any indicator, anyone who writes for the fishwrap is right to be extra concerned about their ability to get the math right. Just sayin.

[Hammersmith]

Honestly, and I say this politely because I think Jeff is a good guy, if history is any indicator, anyone who writes for the fishwrap is right to be extra concerned about their ability to get the math right. Just sayin.

^^Yeah, this was more what I was thinking of. Should've thrown in a smiley.

[TXBison]

Matt Larsen said at the Minneapolis Alumni meeting last week a big announcement is coming soon, I assumed it was about COA?

[Hammersmith]

Matt Larsen said at the Minneapolis Alumni meeting last week a big announcement is coming soon, I assumed it was about COA?

Probably wrestling moving to the B12. It's leaked, but the official announcement hasn't happened yet.

[THEsocalledfan]

Probably wrestling moving to the B12. It's leaked, but the official announcement hasn't happened yet.

And can we really think B12 wrestling would not have FCOA?

[CAS4127]

Matt Larsen said at the Minneapolis Alumni meeting last week a big announcement is coming soon, I assumed it was about COA?

Nope. Gus Bradley 2.0.


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[Hammersmith]

And can we really think B12 wrestling would not have FCOA?

Considering only four of the ten B12 wrestling schools are actually in the B12 for everything else? I'm sure it will be allowed, but I doubt everyone in the conference will do it. SDSU? UNC? Utah Valley? I'd guess fourth priority at NDSU. 1. FB, 2. Basketball, 3. Women's sports to balance, 4. Wrestling.

I just think ML was talking about the wrestling announcement and not anything about FCOA.

[THEsocalledfan]

Considering only four of the ten B12 wrestling schools are actually in the B12 for everything else? I'm sure it will be allowed, but I doubt everyone in the conference will do it. SDSU? UNC? Utah Valley? I'd guess fourth priority at NDSU. 1. FB, 2. Basketball, 3. Women's sports to balance, 4. Wrestling.

I just think ML was talking about the wrestling announcement and not anything about FCOA.

I completely agree with you priority areas and you make a great point on the "real" B12 schools.

[1998braves64]

Honestly, and I say this politely because I think Jeff is a good guy, if history is any indicator, anyone who writes for the fishwrap is right to be extra concerned about their ability to get the math right. Just sayin.


Then again anyone with half the Excel skills as the UN_ consultant could get their math done for them in Excel... Or is that banned by teh forum? Sorry Jeff if you're reading this!

[Tatanka]

Then again anyone with half the Excel skills as the UN_ consultant could get their math done for them in Excel... Or is that banned by teh forum? Sorry Jeff if you're reading this!

half of half of half of what? Zeno would be proud.

[MNLonghorn10]

Nope. Gus Bradley 2.0.


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http://media.giphy.com/media/YZlQaMesgPIAM/giphy.gif

[Christopher Moen]

Considering only four of the ten B12 wrestling schools are actually in the B12 for everything else? I'm sure it will be allowed, but I doubt everyone in the conference will do it. SDSU? UNC? Utah Valley? I'd guess fourth priority at NDSU. 1. FB, 2. Basketball, 3. Women's sports to balance, 4. Wrestling.

I just think ML was talking about the wrestling announcement and not anything about FCOA.

The hold up I've been told is whether the merger takes place this upcoming season or the year following. I talked to a friend who coaches one of the teams in the WWC about the merger meeting, and he said everything went pretty good a few weeks ago.

[1998braves64]

http://www.inforum.com/sports/3766157-many-other-fcs-schools-ndsu-waiting-play-its-hand-providing-student-athletes-cost

Don't see much hard math in this article. Was Kolpack trolling us?
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[Hammersmith]

http://www.inforum.com/sports/3766157-many-other-fcs-schools-ndsu-waiting-play-its-hand-providing-student-athletes-cost

Don't see much hard math in this article. Was Kolpack trolling us?
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

He probably figured that going into that much detail would have caused the typical reader to tune out.

He did make the two typical mistakes:

- Only scholarship athletes are eligible to receive cost of attendance. Furthermore, the amount they could receive depends on the percentage of scholarship they are receiving. For instance, if an athlete is getting a 75 percent scholarship, he or she would be eligible for 75 percent of the total cost of attendance.

- Cost of attendance does not mean a school is increasing the number of scholarships. At NDSU, for instance, if a full ride that consists of tuition, fees, books, room and board is considered to be $15,000 and the maximum cost of attendance set by the financial aid office is calculated to be $3,400. That scholarship would actually be worth $18,400.


Both of those are true/not true. There's a habit for people to treat the COA stipend as a separate amount when it isn't really. It's built into the base value of the scholarship. Thinking about it the wrong way doesn't actually change the amount of money a student-athlete receives, but it creates a blind spot in the thought process which leads to...

COA can be used to increase the number of scholarships allowed in equivalency sports if they are used in a particular way. I haven't heard a school admit it openly, but the loophole is there. I wonder if Kolpack missed it or just decided to ignore it in the article?

[No_Skill]

http://www.inforum.com/sports/3766157-many-other-fcs-schools-ndsu-waiting-play-its-hand-providing-student-athletes-cost

Don't see much hard math in this article. Was Kolpack trolling us?
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

It was probably cut by the editor. The average reader would go into brain-lock if they read numerator and denominator.

[Tatanka]

It was probably cut by the editor. The average reader would go into brain-lock if they read numerator and denominator.


The average Forum editor goes into brain lock if they encounter words with more than two syllables.

[A1pigskin]

http://www.inforum.com/sports/3766157-many-other-fcs-schools-ndsu-waiting-play-its-hand-providing-student-athletes-cost

Don't see much hard math in this article. Was Kolpack trolling us?
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

I am not surprised of a deep dive review.

[HerdBot]

It's a good article but really nothing new. I feel the same way about it as I did before. 2 possible results.

1) we have a recruiting advantage or equal footing
2) we are put at a competitive disadvantage

We not only compete with some great MVFC teams, we compete with teams like Wyoming, MAC schools, and lower end FBS teams. We also compete with power 5 teams for Kids who are offered walk ons. We need ever advantage we can get.

Let's do it.

[El_Chapo]

What a joke. We are not offering COA. BOOOOO. #smalltime #DontBringOnTheCompeition?

[Tatanka]

No decision until 2016-2017 according to the article. Someone bookmark this shit so we don't have to go around in circles for months about will we or won't we aw who the hell am I kidding.
Sent from my online-only virtual dorm room.

[HerdBot]

No decision until 2016-2017 according to the article. Someone bookmark this shit so we don't have to go around in circles for months about will we or won't we aw who the hell am I kidding.
Sent from my online-only virtual dorm room.


I'm curious when we will know. I don't want to read the article again but didn't SDSU say they would decide by October or November? When will we decide? Did the article give us a time line?

If other teams do it we sure as hell better do it the same time.

[1998braves64]

I'm curious when we will know. I don't want to read the article again but didn't SDSU say they would decide by October or November? When will we decide? Did the article give us a time line?

If other teams do it we sure as hell better do it the same time.


I still think we're probably already doing it at a small level (for example the kid that got a COA offer from Wyoming.. I know it is only WY/Laramie but still.) perhaps to see how they will handle it at in a bigger picture? Not announcing it right away gives you a bigger advantage. Larson didn't out and say they weren't offering either. Would this show up in any public financial reports?

[Bison Dan]

I'm curious when we will know. I don't want to read the article again but didn't SDSU say they would decide by October or November? When will we decide? Did the article give us a time line?

If other teams do it we sure as hell better do it the same time.It's a done deal.

[BisoninNWMN]

It's a done deal.

This here.

NDSU will do this. Sooner the better IMO.

[Tatanka]

I'm curious when we will know. I don't want to read the article again but didn't SDSU say they would decide by October or November? When will we decide? Did the article give us a time line?

If other teams do it we sure as hell better do it the same time.


No decision until 2016-2017 according to the article. Someone bookmark this shit so we don't have to go around in circles for months about will we or won't we aw who the hell am I kidding.
Sent from my online-only virtual dorm room.

Well, that didn't last long.

That was a quote from the article, and was a statement attributed to Matt Larsen by Jeff Kolpack.

That said, I agree with the assertion that this is a done deal across the board and that it's just a matter of how it can be funded. Larsen's quote in the Bison Illustrated article was very telling. Philosophically, we're 100% there. Finding the funding is the tricky part, and I don't think it's going to be a problem when the chips are down.

[El_Chapo]

Why wait a year?? Cmon use the advantages. This sucks

[wtffootballfan]

This is interesting.......
http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/legal-showdown-looms-over-the-ncaas-ban-on-paying-athletes/?id=184072&cid=facebook_KELOLAND_News

[tjbison]

This is interesting.......
http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/legal-showdown-looms-over-the-ncaas-ban-on-paying-athletes/?id=184072&cid=facebook_KELOLAND_News

minor league FB coming...sucks college football was so much fun and it's just going to turn into a paid league.

I'm of the side of the ncaa, college is education first not athletics. I'm all for COA but not full payment in salaries to kids

[wtffootballfan]

minor league FB coming...sucks college football was so much fun and it's just going to turn into a paid league.

I'm of the side of the ncaa, college is education first not athletics. I'm all for COA but not full payment in salaries to kids

I agree. This is going to suck badly. It will change the whole NCAA culture and look. Some if not many schools will drop sports, because the won't be able to pay students to play. This also hurts the student athlete in the long run.

[roadwarrior]

NDSU: All sports! Starting 2016-17 season

[Tatanka]

ndsu: All sports! Starting 2016-17 season


:D



yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

[Tatanka]

I would pay good money to be a fly on Farley's office wall today.
Sent from my online-only virtual dorm room.

[roadwarrior]

Forum finally got around to posting the article online:

http://www.inforum.com/sports/3826039-pay-play-ndsu-latest-school-provide-cost-attendance-all-scholarship-athletes

[Herd]

Forum finally got around to posting the article online:

http://www.inforum.com/sports/3826039-pay-play-ndsu-latest-school-provide-cost-attendance-all-scholarship-athletes

You have to wonder if NDSU is going to be looked at by a bigger conference following this announcement.