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Thread: Computer help

  1. #411
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    Default Re: Computer help

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammersmith View Post
    You didn't really answer many of his questions, and what you gave him won't really help him answer you. Let's try again.

    I'm not sure you understand what he means by full-bore. Let me break it down.


    On each TV, you can have different levels of access/capabilities. Many times, you don't really need full capabilities on every TV. To do that adds significant cost with no real gains. So let's look at the different levels and see what you need.

    1. Antenna - Good, old fashioned, over-the-air(OTA) content. Can either be a whole-house antenna that is split between your TVs through coax, or individual "rabbit ears" for each TV. Considering where you live, the rabbit ears are out, but a good whole-house antenna will get you some channels. Looks like you can get CBS, FOX & PBS this way(and some subchannels).

    2. Internet content - This is to fill the void from antenna. Considering how few OTA channels you have, this is a big void. Here's where things get complicated and then simple again. To fill the void for the channels you like, you will probably have to get multiple services(Netflix, Amazon Prime, Sling TV, MLB, NFL, WatchESPN, etc.). This feels very complicated. But once you make those choices, you can often find an interface system like Roku that pulls it all back together in an easy to use format. But all that comes later. Right now, he just needs an idea on how many TVs need access to internet content(I'm going to guess all of them in your case).

    3. Antenna DVR - Live recording from your antenna channels. This is separate from...

    4. Internet DVR - Live recording from the internet content.

    5. On demand - This means going and finding what you want to watch rather than channel surfing to it. Example: One of the few current "TV shows" I'm watching is The Grand Tour on Amazon Prime(new version of Top Gear). New GT episodes come out once a week, but you watch them whenever you want to. There's no need to use a DVR to record them to watch later. You go to the Amazon Prime website(or use an app) to select the show and watch it whenever you choose. The same is true for movies and series on Netflix and the like. If just about all of the things you like to watch are available on demand, then there isn't really a need for a DVR on every TV. Maybe one DVR for the whole house and then use on demand for the rest. Depends on your viewing habits/needs.

    6. Accessing recorded content on other devices - Tech is available to take content from your antenna or DVR and stream it to a phone or tablet device. Maybe you want to be able to watch something on a tablet while sitting on your porch. Or maybe you don't want a TV in your bedroom but want to be able to occasionally watch your recordings there. Stuff like that. It's nice tech to have if you've got tablets and want to use them for this, but it adds to the cost of the system.


    So now for the other questions:

    1. How many TVs are we talking about total?

    2. How many of those TVs need to have antenna access and do you already have an antenna?

    3. How many of the TVs must be able to access internet content?

    4. How many must have separate DVR capabilities and what kinds(antenna and/or internet)?

    5. Do you currently have a Cat5/6(network) outlet near every TV location? If not every location, how many do not have network jacks nearby and how many of those TVs need internet access?

    6. Do you want the ability to stream recorded content to phones and/or tablets?

    7. He didn't ask this, but do you have any old computers or laptops that are just gathering dust? It may or may not save money.


    I'll give you an example of what he's looking for by providing my situation.

    1. I've got one TV.
    2. I don't have an antenna and an antenna is not an option in my case.
    3. My one TV must have access to internet content.
    4. I'd like to have internet DVR, but it's not a deal-breaker. I think I can get everything I want live(sports) or on demand.
    5. I have a network connection near my TV.
    6. I don't need to stream to a phone or tablet, but I do want to stream to a Win10 laptop.
    7. I have two old laptops that can be repurposed. Both have HDMI ports and are fairly powerful.
    Hammer thanks for the info. But youre killing me here.
    If we concentrated on the really important stuff in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles"

    When you play football, you gotta like the taste of blood, And 50 percent of the time, it's your blood.

    It is characteristic of the unlearned that they are forever proposing something which is old, and because it has recently come to their own attention, supposing it to be new.

    "The best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."

  2. #412
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    Default Re: Computer help

    Quote Originally Posted by MAKBison View Post
    Pat are you doing this in the FM if so PM me and I will give you the name of someone to call.....they can get you in the best situation.
    I live 2.5 hours away 35 miles north of Brainerd.
    If we concentrated on the really important stuff in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles"

    When you play football, you gotta like the taste of blood, And 50 percent of the time, it's your blood.

    It is characteristic of the unlearned that they are forever proposing something which is old, and because it has recently come to their own attention, supposing it to be new.

    "The best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."

  3. #413
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    8,794

    Default Re: Computer help

    Quote Originally Posted by 56BISON73 View Post
    I live 2.5 hours away 35 miles north of Brainerd.
    Nice country I like that area. PM sent

  4. #414
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    Jun 2006
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    18,525

    Default Re: Computer help

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammersmith View Post
    You didn't really answer many of his questions, and what you gave him won't really help him answer you. Let's try again.

    I'm not sure you understand what he means by full-bore. Let me break it down.


    On each TV, you can have different levels of access/capabilities. Many times, you don't really need full capabilities on every TV. To do that adds significant cost with no real gains. So let's look at the different levels and see what you need.

    1. Antenna - Good, old fashioned, over-the-air(OTA) content. Can either be a whole-house antenna that is split between your TVs through coax, or individual "rabbit ears" for each TV. Considering where you live, the rabbit ears are out, but a good whole-house antenna will get you some channels. Looks like you can get CBS, FOX & PBS this way(and some subchannels).

    2. Internet content - This is to fill the void from antenna. Considering how few OTA channels you have, this is a big void. Here's where things get complicated and then simple again. To fill the void for the channels you like, you will probably have to get multiple services(Netflix, Amazon Prime, Sling TV, MLB, NFL, WatchESPN, etc.). This feels very complicated. But once you make those choices, you can often find an interface system like Roku that pulls it all back together in an easy to use format. But all that comes later. Right now, he just needs an idea on how many TVs need access to internet content(I'm going to guess all of them in your case).

    3. Antenna DVR - Live recording from your antenna channels. This is separate from...

    4. Internet DVR - Live recording from the internet content.

    5. On demand - This means going and finding what you want to watch rather than channel surfing to it. Example: One of the few current "TV shows" I'm watching is The Grand Tour on Amazon Prime(new version of Top Gear). New GT episodes come out once a week, but you watch them whenever you want to. There's no need to use a DVR to record them to watch later. You go to the Amazon Prime website(or use an app) to select the show and watch it whenever you choose. The same is true for movies and series on Netflix and the like. If just about all of the things you like to watch are available on demand, then there isn't really a need for a DVR on every TV. Maybe one DVR for the whole house and then use on demand for the rest. Depends on your viewing habits/needs.

    6. Accessing recorded content on other devices - Tech is available to take content from your antenna or DVR and stream it to a phone or tablet device. Maybe you want to be able to watch something on a tablet while sitting on your porch. Or maybe you don't want a TV in your bedroom but want to be able to occasionally watch your recordings there. Stuff like that. It's nice tech to have if you've got tablets and want to use them for this, but it adds to the cost of the system.


    So now for the other questions:

    1. How many TVs are we talking about total?

    2. How many of those TVs need to have antenna access and do you already have an antenna?

    3. How many of the TVs must be able to access internet content?

    4. How many must have separate DVR capabilities and what kinds(antenna and/or internet)?

    5. Do you currently have a Cat5/6(network) outlet near every TV location? If not every location, how many do not have network jacks nearby and how many of those TVs need internet access?

    6. Do you want the ability to stream recorded content to phones and/or tablets?

    7. He didn't ask this, but do you have any old computers or laptops that are just gathering dust? It may or may not save money.


    I'll give you an example of what he's looking for by providing my situation.

    1. I've got one TV.
    2. I don't have an antenna and an antenna is not an option in my case.
    3. My one TV must have access to internet content.
    4. I'd like to have internet DVR, but it's not a deal-breaker. I think I can get everything I want live(sports) or on demand.
    5. I have a network connection near my TV.
    6. I don't need to stream to a phone or tablet, but I do want to stream to a Win10 laptop.
    7. I have two old laptops that can be repurposed. Both have HDMI ports and are fairly powerful.
    For fun, I'll reply to the seven questions to show the variability for what I want (I am a bit more like Gabe):

    1. I've got 5 TVs connected to my system. All are connected both to antenna, internet content, and DVR (Tablo).
    2. On my antenna in Sioux Falls, I pick up Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS plus a lot of secondary channels. I can DVR any of this content. Further, my Tablo gives me the ability to watch in my roku interface on any TV. Also can watch live direct off antenna the old fashioned way.
    3. My 5 TVs must access all contents as I am obsessive, completely irrational.
    4. I have both DVR for live TV and recording internet/cable content. I use Tablo for antenna and PlayOn for the internet. As Hammer says, not everyone needs this and I am just obsessive.
    5. I either have cat 5 network drop at each TV, or I use a MoCA adapter to direct connect to my router.
    6. I want to stream to anything. And I can. I was out ice fishing Saturday and watching Alone from history channel on my phone.
    7. I am running my system off my main computer as I don't have another computer available. Please note a computer is not at all necessary, but gives you the ability to record internet content and set up a server to access remotely.

  5. #415
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    Default Re: Computer help

    Quote Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan View Post
    Pat, always a tricky question and really depends on "how far you want to go" and what you already have. Examples:

    1. Depends on if you already have a TV antenna installed somewhere. (I got lucky that one was already in my attic.)
    2. Depends if you want DVR for antenna TV.
    3. Depends if you want full capability on every TV.
    4. Depends if you already have cat 5 or 6 cable already strung in your house

    With that said, answer these questions:

    1. Do you want full bore capability on each TV, or is antenna enough on some?
    2. How many TVs do you want full bore capability?
    3. Do you have network drops near your TVs? (You MIGHT be able to get away with wireless if no obstruction and close to router.) (MOCAs and solve no drops, but adds cost)
    4. Do you want DVR? If so, antenna enough? Or also for "cable" channels? And do you consider "on demand" an acceptable alternative?
    5. Do you want to be able to access content from antenna, or you recorded on your phone, ipad, etc?

    I can get a start for you if you answer those.
    Dear Mike from Sioux Falls,
    Here are my answers to your questions. I eagarly await your response.

    1A. I have cheap individual antennas on 2 of my 3 TV’s. I think they have a 10 Mile…but I think they are better than that. I could easily and cheaply buy a third for the other tv.
    2A. Yes…we want a DVR for Antenna TV.
    3A. Not sure what you mean by full capability, but We would like to have DVR access on all TV’s and be able to watch all shows on all TVs.
    4A. I have cat 6 from my router to the main TV. Can fairly easily get it to the downstairs TV (Same Wall and already have other cables I installed in the wall so holes are already there). Might be difficult to get it to the bedroom TV.

    1B. I think I answered that in 3A above.
    2B. 3 See answers to 1B and 3A.
    3B. I do for the main TV, downstairs TV can easily be installed (See 4A above), and Bedroom Tv no.
    4B. Yes. I conside on demand acceptable, Im not sure the wife will. Im hoping she would get used to it, but my gut tells me it will be difficult.
    5B. I just started getting into this with my phone and the kids tablet and found it handy. So not a deal breaker but I would like that at some point.
    6B (The question you didnt ask) I want it easy. I don't want a million different subscriptions and 8 different devices I have to plug into the TV. Chromecast Roku etc etc..... To me that might be worth the convenience of paying a little more.

    Here are my Must have channels. For the record, remember these are for everyone in the house…not just me. But yes…a most of them are for me.

    LOCALS
    ABC
    CBS
    NBC
    FOX

    A&E
    AMC
    American Heroes Channel
    BBC America
    Big Ten
    CNN
    Comedy Central
    Discovery Channel
    Disney
    Disney Junior
    ESPN
    ESPN2
    ESPN U
    ESPNNEWS
    Fox Sports 1
    Fox Sports North
    FX
    Fox Movie Channel
    Fox News Channel
    FreeForm
    Fuse
    IFC
    MTV
    NBC sports Net
    NFL Network
    Nat Geo Wild
    National Geographic
    Nick
    Nick Jr
    Ovation
    Reelz
    Spike
    TBS
    TLC
    TNT
    Travel Channel
    Sundance
    USA Network
    VH1
    WGN America
    TruTV
    HBO

    In addition to all the weird sports channels on the sports pack…Comcast sports nets, Fox college sports, Altitude, sec network, etc etc
    Last edited by BisonTeacher; 01-11-2017 at 01:16 AM. Reason: Forgot hbo
    I don't care how the vote ended up. They still suck and always will.

    Official Unofficial President of the Bisonville Zach Vraa Fan Club.
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  6. #416
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    Default Re: Computer help

    Here are the basic costs depending on what you need:

    Roku: $55 ea (one per tv...I use the Roku 2...cheapest one that you can plug in rather than use Wifi)
    MoCa Adapter: $50 ea (One per tv plus one to plug into the internet so minimum.
    Antenna DVR: $330 (I have a Channelmaster with 1tb storage. Not sure how much other ones are.
    Outdoor antenna: $65 (This will take care of all TVs. You can get individual indoor antennas...but that will get more expensive with multiple TVs.
    Playon: $50 (Internet DVR to record streaming programming)
    Sling TV: $20/month (Most times you prepay for 3 months and get a free Roku 2)
    Netflix: $9.95/month

    That's the basics. I highly recommend the MoCa adapters...using them used the coax in your house to make it like every roku is plugged right into the router...no worrying about if your Wifi is strong enough. Playon is a one time charge of $50 for lifetime use...but I do rarely use it. But you put it on your computer and you can use it on all your TV's, tablets, phone...really slick. The biggest expense was the dvr for OTA channels. Probably not needed as well. The only reason I got it was for Bison games...but with ESPN3 carrying most...

    So, there is the up front costs...but it does pay off after time. My initial costs were about $785. I am saving about $65/month...so in about 12 months all is paid off and then still saving $65 month...if I hadn't gotten the OTA dvr it would have paid for itself in 7 months.

    Notorious--Bisonville all-time POTY
    Proud member of TOHBTC[/B]

  7. #417
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    Default Re: Computer help

    Quote Originally Posted by TransAmBison View Post
    Here are the basic costs depending on what you need:

    Roku: $55 ea (one per tv...I use the Roku 2...cheapest one that you can plug in rather than use Wifi)
    MoCa Adapter: $50 ea (One per tv plus one to plug into the internet so minimum.
    Antenna DVR: $330 (I have a Channelmaster with 1tb storage. Not sure how much other ones are.
    Outdoor antenna: $65 (This will take care of all TVs. You can get individual indoor antennas...but that will get more expensive with multiple TVs.
    Playon: $50 (Internet DVR to record streaming programming)
    Sling TV: $20/month (Most times you prepay for 3 months and get a free Roku 2)
    Netflix: $9.95/month

    That's the basics. I highly recommend the MoCa adapters...using them used the coax in your house to make it like every roku is plugged right into the router...no worrying about if your Wifi is strong enough. Playon is a one time charge of $50 for lifetime use...but I do rarely use it. But you put it on your computer and you can use it on all your TV's, tablets, phone...really slick. The biggest expense was the dvr for OTA channels. Probably not needed as well. The only reason I got it was for Bison games...but with ESPN3 carrying most...

    So, there is the up front costs...but it does pay off after time. My initial costs were about $785. I am saving about $65/month...so in about 12 months all is paid off and then still saving $65 month...if I hadn't gotten the OTA dvr it would have paid for itself in 7 months.
    Terry, just an FYI, and you probably know this, but Play On works great to record the Bison game replays from ESPN3.

  8. #418
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    Default Re: Computer help

    Quote Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan View Post
    Terry, just an FYI, and you probably know this, but Play On works great to record the Bison game replays from ESPN3.
    Yep, I've don that as well. I don't use Play On often, but it is well worth the one time payment for when I do want it.

    Notorious--Bisonville all-time POTY
    Proud member of TOHBTC[/B]

  9. #419
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    Default Re: Computer help

    Quote Originally Posted by BisonTeacher View Post
    Dear Mike from Sioux Falls,
    Here are my answers to your questions. I eagarly await your response.

    1A. I have cheap individual antennas on 2 of my 3 TV’s. I think they have a 10 Mile…but I think they are better than that. I could easily and cheaply buy a third for the other tv.
    2A. Yes…we want a DVR for Antenna TV.
    3A. Not sure what you mean by full capability, but We would like to have DVR access on all TV’s and be able to watch all shows on all TVs.
    4A. I have cat 6 from my router to the main TV. Can fairly easily get it to the downstairs TV (Same Wall and already have other cables I installed in the wall so holes are already there). Might be difficult to get it to the bedroom TV.

    1B. I think I answered that in 3A above.
    2B. 3 See answers to 1B and 3A.
    3B. I do for the main TV, downstairs TV can easily be installed (See 4A above), and Bedroom Tv no.
    4B. Yes. I conside on demand acceptable, Im not sure the wife will. Im hoping she would get used to it, but my gut tells me it will be difficult.
    5B. I just started getting into this with my phone and the kids tablet and found it handy. So not a deal breaker but I would like that at some point.
    6B (The question you didnt ask) I want it easy. I don't want a million different subscriptions and 8 different devices I have to plug into the TV. Chromecast Roku etc etc..... To me that might be worth the convenience of paying a little more.

    Here are my Must have channels. For the record, remember these are for everyone in the house…not just me. But yes…a most of them are for me.

    LOCALS
    ABC
    CBS
    NBC
    FOX

    A&E
    AMC
    American Heroes Channel
    BBC America
    Big Ten
    CNN
    Comedy Central
    Discovery Channel
    Disney
    Disney Junior
    ESPN
    ESPN2
    ESPN U
    ESPNNEWS
    Fox Sports 1
    Fox Sports North
    FX
    Fox Movie Channel
    Fox News Channel
    FreeForm
    Fuse
    IFC
    MTV
    NBC sports Net
    NFL Network
    Nat Geo Wild
    National Geographic
    Nick
    Nick Jr
    Ovation
    Reelz
    Spike
    TBS
    TLC
    TNT
    Travel Channel
    Sundance
    USA Network
    VH1
    WGN America
    TruTV

    In addition to all the weird sports channels on the sports pack…Comcast sports nets, Fox college sports, Altitude, sec network, etc etc
    Okay, I am going to respond in the order of your questions tallying up what you need:

    1A. I would suggest since you want to have antenna on 3 tv's, to install a good antenna in roof or attic. Then, simply run the coaxial line into where your cable splits to your different TVs. It will give more acceptable/reliable picture for all three and likely pick up more channels. I've seen good ones run $35-130. Being in the metro, I doubt you need a super fancy one. So, lets say $75.
    2A You need a Tablo, then. (If anyone else knows products that power multiple TV's, let me know.) That is going to be one of the biggest expenses. Since this is for antenna only, i think two tuners is plenty. That is $200. Then, you need HD with it. 2 TB can be had for about $80 new. (heck, try to by used) Lifetime channel guide subscription is $150. So this is total of $430, but you do own the equipment and they do have residual value. So, we are up to $505.
    3A I went that direction in 2A. Much cheaper to do like a channel master DVR on one TV. You could still have roku's for other content on other TVs, and at a minimum, attenna.
    4A Okay, your main TV is covered. You need cat 5, 5e, or 6 to your other two tv's for roku's to work. If you must have internet content on the other two tv's, you need to install drops, or go MoCA. For those two TV's, you'd need 3 MoCA adapters. Might be able to pick them up cheaper used, but that is about $50 each. MoCA 1.1 is enough. So add $150, so up to $655. (Not, if you can find a way to string cat 5, 5e, or 6 to the other two TV's and put in LAN drops, but FAR cheapest option and teh $150 goes away.)

    1B. Answered
    2B Answered
    3B Based on this, drop my MoCA price down to $100. Lowering overall price to $605 so far
    4B Try with DVR for network only to start as a compromise. (You can make a serious case for no DVR at all and only using play on; if you go this route, it eliminates the Tablo and channel guide; only HD needed for Play On. If you have the gut to do this, take off $350, so now down to $255. add $50 for lifetime Play On for $305 total)
    5B Both Tablo and Play On allow remote access. Plus, play on records in MP4, so easy to load direct onto a phone if desired. Tablo can also be "ripped." That is not a standard feature, but easy to do if tech savvy which you are.
    6B You probably need three roku's. Say another $150. So up to $705. (must get roku with lan connections; roku 2, 3 or higher; as Terry said, often can get package deal with Sling TV)

    Okay, so your investment for a pretty fancy system would be about $705. Can go higher or much lower depending on what you "really" want. I call this the set up cost; what you need to get paid back on remembering you also own it, which is huge.

    On channels, I'd encourage you to think about what you really need (not all networks free on antenna) remember you may be able to get some "on demand" with Hulu, netflix, prime etc. You are going to pay a lot more if you want all of those. See https://www.sling.com/ Note orange and blue packages. Also, they have multiple $5 add ons like the sports bundle. I think you'd be better off with Sling Orange + the $5 sports bundle for $25/month. Then, get Hulu for much of the rest of the content you are missing (great for kids stuff!!!!). (Yes, you will have a delay on a lot of that; can use Play On to fill in gaps to some degree.) So, say about $35 for your TV subscription (sling orange, sport pack, and hulu), but as high as you want to go.

    So, take the $35, plus say your broadband for another $40 or so a month. That is about $75/month and compare that to your monthly fee to find out when it will pay itself all back. And when that happens, you own everything and continue to pay less. BTW, if you did bite the bullet and get Sling orange and blue, you would then have FSN North. I have preferred, NOT to do this, instead buying MLB, NHL, NFL subscriptions to get each game. To do this, you need a DNS block which is another $40/yr, but you would not need to do that with Sling Blu.

  10. #420
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    Sep 2006
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    Default Re: Computer help

    Quote Originally Posted by TransAmBison View Post
    Here are the basic costs depending on what you need:

    Roku: $55 ea (one per tv...I use the Roku 2...cheapest one that you can plug in rather than use Wifi)
    MoCa Adapter: $50 ea (One per tv plus one to plug into the internet so minimum.
    Antenna DVR: $330 (I have a Channelmaster with 1tb storage. Not sure how much other ones are.
    Outdoor antenna: $65 (This will take care of all TVs. You can get individual indoor antennas...but that will get more expensive with multiple TVs.
    Playon: $50 (Internet DVR to record streaming programming)
    Sling TV: $20/month (Most times you prepay for 3 months and get a free Roku 2)
    Netflix: $9.95/month

    That's the basics. I highly recommend the MoCa adapters...using them used the coax in your house to make it like every roku is plugged right into the router...no worrying about if your Wifi is strong enough. Playon is a one time charge of $50 for lifetime use...but I do rarely use it. But you put it on your computer and you can use it on all your TV's, tablets, phone...really slick. The biggest expense was the dvr for OTA channels. Probably not needed as well. The only reason I got it was for Bison games...but with ESPN3 carrying most...

    So, there is the up front costs...but it does pay off after time. My initial costs were about $785. I am saving about $65/month...so in about 12 months all is paid off and then still saving $65 month...if I hadn't gotten the OTA dvr it would have paid for itself in 7 months.
    You are saving 75.00 a month. But what are you still paying?
    If we concentrated on the really important stuff in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles"

    When you play football, you gotta like the taste of blood, And 50 percent of the time, it's your blood.

    It is characteristic of the unlearned that they are forever proposing something which is old, and because it has recently come to their own attention, supposing it to be new.

    "The best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."

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