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Thread: Sagarin says

  1. #1471
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    Default Re: Sagarin says

    Quote Originally Posted by thebootfitter View Post
    I know you've explained this before, but can you refresh my memory why you add the kicker for the bye? Is that something that you've observed in the Sagarin numbers, even though he doesn't explicitly spell out?
    It's not in the Sagarin numbers. It's an ad hoc adjustment that I make on top based on the value of a bye week in the NFL.
    I have the honor to be Your Obedient Servant - B.Aud

    We all live in stories... It seems to me that a definition of any living vibrant society is that you constantly question those stories... The argument itself is freedom. It's not that you come to a conclusion about it. Through that argument you change your mind sometimes... That's how societies grow. When you can't retell for yourself the stories of your life then you live in a prison... Somebody else controls the story. - S. Rushdie

  2. #1472
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    Default Re: Sagarin says

    Quote Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan View Post
    I think you are misreading that. He is showing the are the most likely other team to win the title, not that they are the next best team since much of this has to do with path/matchups.

    Correct me if wrong, Audit.
    Jacksonville State is the next most likely to win the title, not necessarily the next best team. It's path dependent.

    Here are the raw Sagarin ratings for all the playoff teams in rank order:

    77.91 #2 North Dakota State
    70.89 Northern Iowa
    69.88 #5 Illinois State
    69.44 #3 Jacksonville State
    68.30 South Dakota State
    65.77 #1 New Hampshire
    65.17 #8 Chattanooga
    63.90 #4 Eastern Washington
    63.70 #7 Coastal Carolina
    63.66 #6 Villanova
    63.20 SE Louisiana
    61.34 Sam Houston State
    60.74 Indiana State
    59.82 Liberty
    58.69 Fordham
    57.93 Richmond
    57.85 Montana
    56.42 James Madison
    54.62 Stephen F. Austin
    54.59 Eastern Kentucky
    53.49 Montana State
    50.10 Sacred Heart
    40.12 Morgan State
    39.60 San Diego
    I have the honor to be Your Obedient Servant - B.Aud

    We all live in stories... It seems to me that a definition of any living vibrant society is that you constantly question those stories... The argument itself is freedom. It's not that you come to a conclusion about it. Through that argument you change your mind sometimes... That's how societies grow. When you can't retell for yourself the stories of your life then you live in a prison... Somebody else controls the story. - S. Rushdie

  3. #1473
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    Default Re: Sagarin says

    If you flop UNH and NDSU in the bracket NDSU's chances of making the final increase from 68.6% to 71.9% while UNH decreases from 28.8% to 24.5%.

    At least by that measure Sagarin doesn't believe that we got the easy side of the bracket.

    Of course it looks like most of the issue is playing SDSU in round 2, which likely would have persisted because regionalization. Boo.
    I have the honor to be Your Obedient Servant - B.Aud

    We all live in stories... It seems to me that a definition of any living vibrant society is that you constantly question those stories... The argument itself is freedom. It's not that you come to a conclusion about it. Through that argument you change your mind sometimes... That's how societies grow. When you can't retell for yourself the stories of your life then you live in a prison... Somebody else controls the story. - S. Rushdie

  4. #1474
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    Default Re: Sagarin says

    Quote Originally Posted by bisonaudit View Post
    If you flop UNH and NDSU in the bracket NDSU's chances of making the final increase from 68.6% to 71.9% while UNH decreases from 28.8% to 24.5%.

    At least by that measure Sagarin doesn't believe that we got the easy side of the bracket.

    Of course it looks like most of the issue is playing SDSU in round 2, which likely would have persisted because regionalization. Boo.
    Yes, that is indeed the case. If we flip the whole pod of 3 teams rather than just the ranked ones:

    NDSU's chances of reaching the final decrease from 68.6% to 65.7% while UNH goes from 28.8% to 31.8%.
    Last edited by bisonaudit; 08-06-2015 at 11:01 PM.
    I have the honor to be Your Obedient Servant - B.Aud

    We all live in stories... It seems to me that a definition of any living vibrant society is that you constantly question those stories... The argument itself is freedom. It's not that you come to a conclusion about it. Through that argument you change your mind sometimes... That's how societies grow. When you can't retell for yourself the stories of your life then you live in a prison... Somebody else controls the story. - S. Rushdie

  5. #1475
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    Default Re: Sagarin says

    I don't know if Indiana State can go on the road and win 3 against Eastern Kentucky, Chattanooga and New Hampshire but the rest of a scenario where the MVFC goes 12-4 with all 4 losses to MVFC teams is fairly plausible.
    I have the honor to be Your Obedient Servant - B.Aud

    We all live in stories... It seems to me that a definition of any living vibrant society is that you constantly question those stories... The argument itself is freedom. It's not that you come to a conclusion about it. Through that argument you change your mind sometimes... That's how societies grow. When you can't retell for yourself the stories of your life then you live in a prison... Somebody else controls the story. - S. Rushdie

  6. #1476
    Mayville Bison is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Sagarin says

    Quote Originally Posted by bisonaudit View Post
    Jacksonville State is the next most likely to win the title, not necessarily the next best team. It's path dependent.

    Here are the raw Sagarin ratings for all the playoff teams in rank order:

    77.91 #2 North Dakota State
    70.89 Northern Iowa
    69.88 #5 Illinois State
    69.44 #3 Jacksonville State
    68.30 South Dakota State
    65.77 #1 New Hampshire
    65.17 #8 Chattanooga
    63.90 #4 Eastern Washington
    63.70 #7 Coastal Carolina
    63.66 #6 Villanova
    63.20 SE Louisiana
    61.34 Sam Houston State
    60.74 Indiana State
    59.82 Liberty
    58.69 Fordham
    57.93 Richmond
    57.85 Montana
    56.42 James Madison
    54.62 Stephen F. Austin
    54.59 Eastern Kentucky
    53.49 Montana State
    50.10 Sacred Heart
    40.12 Morgan State
    39.60 San Diego
    The playoff bracket if regionalization wasn't in play (and they went with Sagarin #s).
    Montana @ Richmond - winner @ #1 NDSU
    San Diego @ Coastal Carolina - winner @ #8 Eastern Washington
    EKU @ ISUb - winner @ #4 Jacksonville State
    Montana St @ SHSU - winner @ #5 SDSU
    SFA @ Liberty - winner @ #3 ISUr
    Sacred Heart @ SELA - winner @ #6 New Hampshire
    Morgan St @ Villanova - winner @ #7 Chattanooga
    JMU @ Fordham - winner @ #2 Northern Iowa

    Not sure I like that second round pairing any better, but regionalization blows!

  7. #1477
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    Default Re: Sagarin says

    Whatever method it is that the selection committee is using, it still puzzles me as to why New Hampshire would be the #1 seed. There's gotta be some bias involved in that decision.

    I wish they would use the Sagarin rankings, you can tell just by looking at them that it's a good methodology he uses, very objective.

  8. #1478
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    Default Re: Sagarin says

    Quote Originally Posted by LongLostAlum View Post
    Whatever method it is that the selection committee is using, it still puzzles me as to why New Hampshire would be the #1 seed. There's gotta be some bias involved in that decision.
    #1 v #2 is meaningless so they could have just as well flipped a coin. I'm not sure that New Hampshire would have gotten the nod if they were in a battle over the #2 seed because they have only one win over a playoff team and played a pitiful non-conference schedule.

  9. #1479
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    Default Re: Sagarin says

    Quote Originally Posted by tony View Post
    #1 v #2 is meaningless so they could have just as well flipped a coin. I'm not sure that New Hampshire would have gotten the nod if they were in a battle over the #2 seed because they have only one win over a playoff team and played a pitiful non-conference schedule.
    Although this is just in my world, but I'd like to believe they decided to give them the 1 seed to make everyone happy and then gave us the better bracket because we deserved it.
    I like to surround myself with people who share in my inappropriate comments, sarcasm, and random shenanigans

  10. #1480
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    Default Re: Sagarin says

    Quote Originally Posted by LongLostAlum View Post
    Whatever method it is that the selection committee is using, it still puzzles me as to why New Hampshire would be the #1 seed. There's gotta be some bias involved in that decision.

    I wish they would use the Sagarin rankings, you can tell just by looking at them that it's a good methodology he uses, very objective.
    I may disagree with where they put them, but the Committee's excuse/reason whatever you want to call it, I can understand it. Basically because UNH's loss was early and to an FBS they chose them over NDSU because it was an FCS loss close to the end of the season. In the end it doesn't effect us at all, but you are correct there are bias's invovled in the discussion. Is it intentional, no, but there are always bias's. Thats why they have the number they have on the committee. I still think the bigger problem with the playoff is the regionalization/bus trip rule than what rankings they use.

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