lets drop baseball and add hockey

[EndZoneQB]

There is some merit to the "teh hockies as a gateway drug to UND all-sports fandom" although smart fans of the non-teh-hockies sports know the difference. And those that don't, well, they fit the profile.

Right. And, unfortunately, it's not uncommon for someone to be a UND fan for teh hockies and an NDSU fan for all other.

[The_Sicatoka]

Didn't the NDSU president recently try to shut down the on-campus day care center because of overall budget concerns? Adding hockey now wouldn't win a lot of friends in certain circles for him.

[TheBisonator]

This is a quote I found on ss.com regarding Williston State adding club hockey.

"As far as NDSU hockey, their fans and administration will never go for it because they know they could never get to UND's level. That's fine by me. But what they fail to see is that hockey gives UND major inroads to the Fargo-Moorhead market, even among non-UND alumni. The school-age kids there instantly recognize that UND hockey is really the only top level program around, and want to be part of that. By converting the kids to being Sioux hockey fans, it also opens the door for them to be Sioux fans in everything else. NDSU wouldn't even need to start women's hockey to compensate for Title IX, as they can just move their women's equestrian program to varsity status. With Scheel's Arena, the business potential is better than NDSU admins ever admit, but they have too many problems raising money for basic DI facility needs."

Is this true? I now that NDSU needs to work on their presence in the FM area, but I can't help but wonder if the success of their hockey translates to an increase in their 'supposed' fans for other sports. Don't tell me that anyone who has been out and around Fargo or been to a Force game doesn't see more UND stuff around then we all would like.

Maybe I am just being paranoid, and I am not in favor of adding hockey any time soon, but I just don't want to see Fargo-Moorhead being invaded and claiming more UND 'fans' who have choose all Sioux sports (whatever else they play up there...summer hockey? fall hockey? women's hockey?) over possibly becoming Bison fans.

Sidenote: Minot state has begun listing their hockey team on their main page of their athletics. Moving up once D2?

Out of every 1,000 Sioux Hockey fans in F-M (and in general throughout the region, for that matter), I would bet that less than 50 of them are fans of their football and basketball. And I'm probably being be generous when I say 50. As a matter of fact, I'm being incredibly generous. Look at the # of posts on the SS board. Their hockey forum grinds out activity and posts non-stop, 24/7 365. Their football forum can go days without a new post. Look, UND has created a brand around HOCKEY, but it's HOCKEY ONLY. I get sick and tired of seeing the dumbass posts on the SS board (especially from that star guy) about thinking that non-hockey sports can benefit and piggyback from hockey's popularity up north. NEWS FLASH: Your attendances in FB and BB suggest otherwise. (And recent NDSU beatdowns of UND in the other sports don't help your cause).

UND, despite what some of the winged monkeys in SS claim, has put all their eggs in the hockey basket. They have a cracked shell in the FB basket and a drop of yolk in the hoops basket. That's fine by me, honestly. I personally think it's better that they're known for a sport that we don't have. This region (ND and Western MN) is too small in population for each school's accomplishments to not have a negative effect on the other. In other words, this region is too small for the NDSU/UND battle to not be a zero-sum game. It's a zero-sum game, and it always will be. What's good for NDSU is bad for UND, and vice-versa. This is why I think that NDSU being successful in FB and BB takes away prestige and support from UND's FB and BB, especially when you consider that UND's hockey is always really good. Back in the DII days, it was possible for both schools to be really good in FB and BB and have major accomplishments and fan followings, but this is DI. The pie hasn't gotten much bigger, but the stakes have gotten WAY higher.

UND being really good in hockey and NDSU dominating the FB and BB sports is just like a cosmic balance when you think about it. It's almost the natural order of things. If NDSU tries to duplicate what UND is doing in hockey, that throws off the whole balance at a detriment to NDSU's FB and BB programs. I'm more worried than anything about the balance being distrupted, cause I'm not willing to be a fan of a school that competes well in hockey and goes 3-8 in football and does terrible in basketball.

[NDSUstudent]

I had about 10 friends I graduated high school with go to UND, most of them went to many Sioux hockey games. Combined they may have went to two football games and basketball forget about it.

I never hear them mention another Sioux sport now, it is all about hockey or it doesn't matter(unless they are playing NDSU).

[bisonpride]

I think its worth exploring. If the money is there than yes. If its not? No. But let's get the SHAC done first. Like I said... it can't hurt football and basketball.

It WAS explored 10 years ago HEAVILY! We chose to explore Division 1 for all sports instead. Please drop this stupid argument. You keep saying "it cant hurt football and basketball", well if we add it it will hurt them both bottom line! Thats why they didnt make the move in the first place with hockey 10 years ago! The firms were hired. The studies were done. Gino Gasparini was even going to coach it. If hockey was such a great idea financially where are some of the other northern schools like Iowa, Iowa State, Illinois, Montana, Syracuse, St Johns, UCONN to name a few. If we start to see these other schools jump on board then we should explore it but not now.

Lets build ALL the programs we have now into Summit League dominant contenders first. If we have any program lacking behind in funding then we need to build that up first before we even think of adding anything else.

As far as the equestrian from another comment... Great idea Sioux fan! Its much less expensive to haul around horses in trailers and feed and water them compared to hockey. Who is paying for the stall cleaning bill cuz I am sure the "athletes" wont be doing that on their own. I think some people need to find out exactly how much is spent on equetrian at SDSU before anyone thinks that would be a great alternative.

Here is a little glimpse into just how expensive that could be after looking at the "Barn Managers" bio from the Equestrian coaches page.

***Martin Hanson returns for his third year as the SDSU equestrian barn manger, where manages the day-to-day operations of the Nathelle and Lawrence DeHaan Equestrian Center and the 150 acres of land it sits on, as well as the care and welfare of South Dakota State's stable of more than 40 horses. In addition to his daily duties, Hanson maintains and supervises a staff of 10-15 student employees and aids in the design and implementation of capital improvements for the facility****

If Spreewell couldnt feed his family on 12Mil a year imagine feeding 40 hungry horses.

[bisonpride]

They have absolutely benefitted from NDSU/UND/SDSU/USD leaving D2. Shows how watered down it is. But it's stilll a good accomplishment to win the D2 Championship. Heck, NAIA teams beat UND now!

Listening to Sid and Dave this morning, they said a big part of the Championship was the new hockey arena that got built this year. It's nice but not huge. Capacity just over 6700 fans.

I think it's an added bonus that we already have the Scheels Center which is smaller but a great facility. It is certainly no Ralph but it's still as nice or nicer than many of the arenas and it can be ugraded as well. If you compare it to CHA teams, it's bigger than most. Smaller than WCHA arenas.

We don't need a big name coach. There are so few teams out there there are not many opportunities being given to coaches. However if we end up selling out every game and raising donations, we may have enough money to pay a coach like that.

We have to explore the idea. I think it's idiotic to just flat out say "no we dont' have the money and there is no chance of it working." How about we actually research it first. Who knows? There could be a ton of potential donors out there. Of course they are not going to show up unless we ask. Moorhead State even claimed to have had enough donors to pull it off.

Finish the SHAC. Research it.

The new arena had ZERO effect on them winning the title! UND has had the best hockey arena in the country arguably at any level for I think 10 years now and how many titles have they won. UMD's arena wasnt even open for the whole season. The talented seniors they had came to that school to play in the DECC before a new arena was even announced.

MSUM has never claimed to have had enough donors to pull it off. If they did it would already be done. They dont even have enough donors to pull of 10 football scholarships let alone adding 2 hockey programs at the D1 level.

[TheBisonator]

I had about 10 friends I graduated high school with go to UND, most of them went to many Sioux hockey games. Combined they may have went to two football games and basketball forget about it.

I never hear them mention another Sioux sport now, it is all about hockey or it doesn't matter(unless they are playing NDSU).

Ever see whenever they show a UND basketball game at the Betty on TV what the student section there looks like?? Dead empty. Empty empty empty. I saw them play one game on TV (against some sub-300 RPI jokers) last winter and I thought I saw maybe 3-4 total people sitting in their student section, which I could tell was there, cause of the big banner that said "STUDENT SECTION" draped above the top row.

And regarding online fan interest: There's like maybe 3 alums of that school who are even remotely interested in BB on the SS board. Game threads on there aren't even updated during the game, there's a preview post then the final score is posted with a couple further comments. And the same 4-5 people post on their BB board. By contrast, on BV, game threads for big games can come close to maxing out bandwidth, and that's for basketball. Football threads almost always need a 2-parter. FB threads on SS.com can go as little as 3 pages long.

Attendance: Regular crowds of less than 8,000 for football and they almost NEVER breach 2,000 for basketball. And they have a gorgeous (but small) BB arena. 2 years ago the #16 team in FCS, Cal-Poly, comes into town, they're playing basically for a GWFC championship, and they get 6,711 in attendance. NDSU plays for the GWFC title in 2006 and draws 19,053. I know we piss on NDSU's basketball attendance a lot, but if a home game at the BSA is against a DI team, the attendance won't go less than 2,200 or so on weekday night game, or 3,000 on a Saturday night game. Average for a weeknight game will be about 2,500 and maybe about 3,500 for a Saturday nighter. And this is in the worst BB arena in the Dakotas.

Of course they pack em in for hockey, and they sell jerseys for hockey, and they have the TV deal for hockey, and they have the fan following for hockey. BUT IT'S FOR HOCKEY. They do this at the detriment to their football and basketball. I'm afraid that if NDSU went that route, the same would happen to us. Even fans of UND FB and BB (whatever few of them there are) admit that NDSU has set the bar in the region when it comes to football atmosphere, fan following, promotions, on-field performance, etc. and that UND basically cannot catch up with what NDSU has put together. We have that on them. And at least the thing we have on them is in a sport that both schools have. I don't want to give that up. And we risk giving that up if we start a massively big hockey program.

[344Johnson]

http://www.videobb.com/video/4tPXkbI7HvFg


This video shows the difference between teh hockies fans and normal folks.

[onbison09]

]The new arena had ZERO effect on them winning the title![/B] UND has had the best hockey arena in the country arguably at any level for I think 10 years now and how many titles have they won. UMD's arena wasnt even open for the whole season. The talented seniors they had came to that school to play in the DECC before a new arena was even announced.

MSUM has never claimed to have had enough donors to pull it off. If they did it would already be done. They dont even have enough donors to pull of 10 football scholarships let alone adding 2 hockey programs at the D1 level.

Meh. I wouldn't say zero. They had some good freshman come in. But you're right about the seniors.

[skolbrother]

This is a quote I found on ss.com regarding Williston State adding club hockey.

"As far as NDSU hockey, their fans and administration will never go for it because they know they could never get to UND's level. That's fine by me. But what they fail to see is that hockey gives UND major inroads to the Fargo-Moorhead market, even among non-UND alumni. The school-age kids there instantly recognize that UND hockey is really the only top level program around, and want to be part of that. By converting the kids to being Sioux hockey fans, it also opens the door for them to be Sioux fans in everything else. NDSU wouldn't even need to start women's hockey to compensate for Title IX, as they can just move their women's equestrian program to varsity status. With Scheel's Arena, the business potential is better than NDSU admins ever admit, but they have too many problems raising money for basic DI facility needs."

Is this true? I now that NDSU needs to work on their presence in the FM area, but I can't help but wonder if the success of their hockey translates to an increase in their 'supposed' fans for other sports. Don't tell me that anyone who has been out and around Fargo or been to a Force game doesn't see more UND stuff around then we all would like.

Maybe I am just being paranoid, and I am not in favor of adding hockey any time soon, but I just don't want to see Fargo-Moorhead being invaded and claiming more UND 'fans' who have choose all Sioux sports (whatever else they play up there...summer hockey? fall hockey? women's hockey?) over possibly becoming Bison fans.

Sidenote: Minot state has begun listing their hockey team on their main page of their athletics. Moving up once D2?

I am fairly involved with Fargo youth hockey and I will pass along some numbers. We anticipate close to 1,000 kids next year (boys and girls) playing hockey from the termite( age 4,5,6,) - bantams ( 9th/10th grade). These kids are growing up in Fargo (which is in the Great state of North Dakota). Think about it. Btw, this does not include West Fargo. This is valid information. I know many of you dislike hockey but the growing numbers are certainly showing that once kids play it becomes their sport of choice.