More legislative shenanigans by Al Carlson

[LefseBison]

He is as good of a chief as we have had in Fargo period

Agreed.

[HerdBot]

This is where you and I part ways. I am so impressed with Chief Zibolski. He understands the dynamics of crime. He said it is not a crime to be homeless per se paraphrased)

You probably read the article on mental illness and the police response in Saturday's paper. I went over to the library to read it, and wow, we are lucky to have the Chief in Fargo.

It's not a crime to be homeless but it is a crime for a homeless person to break the law.

Most chronically homeless people have drug or mental health issues. We're not doing them a favor by letting tweekers who haven't slept for 3 days roam the street and need a fix so badly, they rob and steal to get it. The guy who murdered the teenage girl a few years ago was tweeking so bad, he was hallucinating.

Arresting and throwing a tweeker in detox is the best for everyone

I'm not talking about arresting a homeless person for dumpster diving here

[bisonaudit]

The cure for homelessness is houses.

Not a coincidence that deinstitutionalizing people with mental health challenges = people with mental health challenges living on the streets.

[NI4NI]

throwing a tweeker in the river is the best for everyone

Fixed it 4 U

[HerdBot]

The cure for homelessness is houses.

Not a coincidence that deinstitutionalizing people with mental health challenges = people with mental health challenges living on the streets.

Partially true.

There are 3 kinds of homeless people.

1) Short term homeless. Guy loses a job. Gets evicted and wants to change his life. That person will take advantage of resources and almost always turns their life around. They are rarely dangerous and sleep in their car.

2) Mental illness

3) Drug or alcohol addiction (crackheads)


I don't like to include crack heads in the same discussion as a guy who lost his job and was evicted and is doing everything in his power to get back on his feet

Giving crackheads a free home enables them to be crack heads. Have you ever seen those crackhead hotels? You know, the one by the Petro Serve that is on the verge of closing because they cant afford permanant private security. It's all drug addicts and drug dealers. That's all we would be creating except it would be rent free

If you want to do a crackhead housing complex, put it 10 miles out of town because they are simply going to head back to the crackhead hotel in Fargo to get a fix. They will panhandle, rob and steal to get enough money for meth. Most murders are done by crackheads over drugs and drug money

I will agree on serious mental illness but they are the smallest number of homeless people

[bisonaudit]

Partially true.

There are 3 kinds of homeless people.

1) Short term homeless. Guy loses a job. Gets evicted and wants to change his life. That person will take advantage of resources and almost always turns their life around. They are rarely dangerous and sleep in their car.

2) Mental illness

3) Drug or alcohol addiction


I don't like to include crack heads in the same discussion as a guy who lost his job and was evicted and is doing everything in his power to get back on his feet

Giving crackheads a free home enables them to be crack heads. Have you ever seen those crackhead hotels? You know, the one by the Petro Serve that is on the verge of closing because they cant afford permanant private security. That's all we would be creating except it would be rent free

If you want to do a crackhead housing complex, put it 10 miles out of town because they are simply going to head back to the crackhead hotel in Fargo to get a fix.

I will agree on serious mental illness but they are the smallest number of homeless people

I just found two studies in 5 seconds that say the numbers for serious mental illness are higher than substance abuse.

[scottietohottie]

I just found two studies in 5 seconds that say the numbers for serious mental illness are higher than substance abuse.

Sounds like an untapped customer clientele eh.

[HerdBot]

I just found two studies in 5 seconds that say the numbers for serious mental illness are higher than substance abuse.

Possibility but most long term crackheads ultimately die from an OD, so they probably didn't take the survey. The number of people I went to high school with who died from meth, heroin or fentanyl is really shocking

No matter how you shake it, crackheads are easily the most dangerous

Mental illness is very vague and broad. It can range from social anxiety to schizophrenia. Obvious the later is much more serious, but rarer

Mental illness needs hospital beds, not a homeless shelter

Crackheads need detox

Temporary homeless need temporarily housing in a safe area. They shouldn't be put in a dangerous situation where they are surrounded by crackheads and people who hear voices

[LefseBison]

s. Have you ever seen those crackhead hotels? You know, the one by the Petro Serve that is on the verge of closing because they cant afford permanant private security. It's all drug addicts and drug dealers. That's all we would be creating except it would be rent free

If you want to do a crackhead housing complex, put it 10 miles out of town because they are simply going to head back to the crackhead hotel in Fargo to get a fix. They will panhandle, rob and steal to get enough money for meth. Most murders are done by crackheads over drugs and drug money

I will agree on serious mentaally true.

l illness but they are the smallest number of homeless people

I am very distressed about the PetroServe situation. I know there have been 2 articles in the paper about PetroServe situation and I did not know the backstory on this. I know that homeless/drug addicts, criminal behavior is, other things being equal, going to happen in larger cities just because they tend to gravitate towards them. Kent S. the CEO of PetroServe was quoted as saying that of the "29 towns PetroServe is located in, Fargo is the only one which has the crime which is threatening his store." Using critical thinking skills, why should that be a surprise? Some of the towns that have PetroServe stores are Ulen, Dilworth and others. The larger ones are Bismarck (77,000 population) and Grand Forks (who cares population) but less than Bismarck. In short, with a larger population (Fargo has 136,000 population), we are going to have raw numbers of everything, white people, black people, crackheads and crime. We may potentially have the same RATE of crime as Moorhead for example but the RAW numbers will be larger.

But I assume the Chief and Mayor are aware of the proximity of PetroServe to this "hotel."

Not to throw a wrench in this discussion but I also wonder about the Downtown Engagement Center in Fargo - if that is serving, unwittingly, as a magnet to get homeless to move, gravitate to Fargo. Homeless do not move, they "gravitate." I visited the Downtown Engagement Center recently and spoke to one of the workers about downtown. I also went to that Homeless Conference in Fargo 2 months ago with that homeless specialist from Milwaukee which had such success there with chronic homelessness. I am not so sure about his cure if it will work in Fargo. It took years for it to take hold in Milwaukee.

Also that Dorothy Day homeless shelter in Moorhead closed recently due to lack of funding. Moorhead also has Micah's Mission which is a large facility and serves families.

I am downtown a lot and am not afraid of the homeless per se but know it is not a one-size fits all. We were downtown Friday and there was some guy who was flailing his arms around, his pants were low, really, dangerously low, and he was swearing at me, actually at everyone. One person told him to "pull his pants up" and that kind of shut the guy up.

I learned something today about that PetroServe situation and its proximity to this "crackhead hotel". That part was not in the Fargo Forum.

[LefseBison]

Possibility but most long term crackheads ultimately die from an OD, so they probably didn't take the survey. The number of people I went to high school with who died from meth, heroin or fentanyl is really shocking

No matter how you shake it, crackheads are easily the most dangerous

Mental illness is very vague and broad. It can range from social anxiety to schizophrenia. Obvious the later is much more serious, but rarer

Mental illness needs hospital beds, not a homeless shelter

Crackheads need detox

Temporary homeless need temporarily housing in a safe area. They shouldn't be put in a dangerous situation where they are surrounded by crackheads and people who hear voices

I read Chief Zibolski's article on mental illness yesterday in the Forum and in all honesty, my memory of it was that he did not see mental illness as a one-size-fits-all disease. He did say they could not always put a label on some of the mental illness and some may have just been suffering from struggling to live on the streets. He is aware of all the dangers of meth and drugs, I think they want some of those mobile units/trained social workers to roam some of the downtown streets (especially during daylight hours) instead of police officers who are spread very thin. But I think he also said to paraphrase "how do you know a person is dangerous until you get right up close to them and start talking to them? I don't think being mentally ill is a crime but some of the resulting behaviors can be.