Summit Expansion?

[Professorbum]

Sycamore fan here. I have long been an advocate of adding NDSU and SDSU to the MVC. Unfortunately the reality is that the private schools would never go for it and I believe 75% of the members have to vote "yes" for a new member to be added. Drake might go for it, but Valpo, Loyola, Evansville, and Bradley would be definite "no's". Embarrassingly enough I'm not even sure if Indiana State would vote "yes" because of travel.

I don't see the UT Arlington thing ever happening. If it does then Indiana State might need to find a new league, because that would be a pretty embarrassing addition. I thought it was pretty bad when we looked at Omaha (that isn't meant to be a put down either), but Arlington would be even worse.

Personally if the MVC could add Murray State and go to 11 I would be pretty happy with it. At least then we would have 6 schools for an AQ for the FCS playoffs (if the MVFC ever broke up) and Murray a pretty good basketball program practically in our own backyard. I think the MVC's dream is to add Belmont, who turned the MVC down in 2013 and 2017.

Thanks for stopping by. I was unaware that the MVC would even give UT Arlington a sniff. They are in the UIC range for basketball prestige. If the MVC is thinking about them, then they've fallen farther than I imagined.

I used to spend a lot of time reading the MVC board. I'd get excited whenever there was expansion talk, hoping that NDSU or NSDU with SDSU would get a look. However, there's clearly not any interest among fans or MVC schools in considering the Dakotas. It is kind of odd, because the Dakotas are actually located in the Missouri River Valley. It wants to be a bus league (which I think screams "we're small-time").

In any case, I'm very much over the MVC. It isn't the conference it was 20-30 years ago. You still have some great teams and great atmosphere at many MVC venues. But it isn't worth a move. I've grown comfortable with the Summit. I continue to hope for a move to an FBS conference. However, if that never happens, or if we move in football only, I'm okay staying in the Summit. We generally get in the NCAA dance every other year or so and we have a really good conference tournament.

Even so, I wish the Sycamores luck this season. I'm a mild fan of your school. I grew up during the Larry Bird era. I even played a game of pick-up ball with his brother Eddie once at their house in French Lick.

Swing by this board anytime!

[tjbison]

Thanks for stopping by. I was unaware that the MVC would even give UT Arlington a sniff. They are in the UIC range for basketball prestige. If the MVC is thinking about them, then they've fallen farther than I imagined.

I used to spend a lot of time reading the MVC board. I'd get excited whenever there was expansion talk, hoping that NDSU or NSDU with SDSU would get a look. However, there's clearly not any interest among fans or MVC schools in considering the Dakotas. It is kind of odd, because the Dakotas are actually located in the Missouri River Valley. It wants to be a bus league (which I think screams "we're small-time").

In any case, I'm very much over the MVC. It isn't the conference it was 20-30 years ago. You still have some great teams and great atmosphere at many MVC venues. But it isn't worth a move. I've grown comfortable with the Summit. I continue to hope for a move to an FBS conference. However, if that never happens, or if we move in football only, I'm okay staying in the Summit. We generally get in the NCAA dance every other year or so and we have a really good conference tournament.

Even so, I wish the Sycamores luck this season. I'm a mild fan of your school. I grew up during the Larry Bird era. I even played a game of pick-up ball with his brother Eddie once at their house in French Lick.

Swing by this board anytime!

Yeah, the arrogance that they are some prestige elite turned me off also.

FBS or bust

[IndyBison]

Even so, I wish the Sycamores luck this season. I'm a mild fan of your school. I grew up during the Larry Bird era. I even played a game of pick-up ball with his brother Eddie once at their house in French Lick.

My kids peed in Larry's pool!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[HerdBot]

Thanks for stopping by. I was unaware that the MVC would even give UT Arlington a sniff. They are in the UIC range for basketball prestige. If the MVC is thinking about them, then they've fallen farther than I imagined.

I used to spend a lot of time reading the MVC board. I'd get excited whenever there was expansion talk, hoping that NDSU or NSDU with SDSU would get a look. However, there's clearly not any interest among fans or MVC schools in considering the Dakotas. It is kind of odd, because the Dakotas are actually located in the Missouri River Valley. It wants to be a bus league (which I think screams "we're small-time").

In any case, I'm very much over the MVC. It isn't the conference it was 20-30 years ago. You still have some great teams and great atmosphere at many MVC venues. But it isn't worth a move. I've grown comfortable with the Summit. I continue to hope for a move to an FBS conference. However, if that never happens, or if we move in football only, I'm okay staying in the Summit. We generally get in the NCAA dance every other year or so and we have a really good conference tournament.

Even so, I wish the Sycamores luck this season. I'm a mild fan of your school. I grew up during the Larry Bird era. I even played a game of pick-up ball with his brother Eddie once at their house in French Lick.

Swing by this board anytime!

I'm much cooler on them now too. They are no longer a 2 bid league but we are improving and they appear to be getting worse or staying the same. I would consider them just a hair better but they certainly have more prestige and history. Probably more media revenue too

Loyola made the Sweet 16, but we have Oral Roberts who did too.

Overall the Summit has good long term potential. We no longer have to worry about the stability of the conference since we suddenly incredible stable which is a big deal

We have a ton of great rivalries built in between the 4 Dakota schools and easy interstate travel. Facilities are coming along and improving. Attendance is solid with the 4 rivalry teams

I can just see a day in the future where the prestige and name grows as well as the quality of play. St Thomas now is a no name but that's a great program and they will someday be an asset to the conference and get the facilities up to par

We also have some really good markets with Minneapolis, Omaha, Kansas City, Tulsa and Denver.

I really hope western Illinois can find another home so we can find a school with a footprint closer to the southern half of our league. I want to see us go south or west.

[MrAugustana]

I'm much cooler on them now too. They are no longer a 2 bid league but we are improving and they appear to be getting worse or staying the same. I would consider them just a hair better but they certainly have more prestige and history. Probably more media revenue too

Loyola made the Sweet 16, but we have Oral Roberts who did too.

Overall the Summit has good long term potential. We no longer have to worry about the stability of the conference since we suddenly incredible stable which is a big deal

We have a ton of great rivalries built in between the 4 Dakota schools and easy interstate travel. Facilities are coming along and improving. Attendance is solid with the 4 rivalry teams

I can just see a day in the future where the prestige and name grows as well as the quality of play. St Thomas now is a no name but that's a great program and they will someday be an asset to the conference and get the facilities up to par

We also have some really good markets with Minneapolis, Omaha, Kansas City, Tulsa and Denver.

I really hope western Illinois can find another home so we can find a school with a footprint closer to the southern half of our league. I want to see us go south or west.

I am willing to bet this will happen much sooner than most Summit League fans are expecting.

[Professorbum]

I am willing to bet this will happen much sooner than most Summit League fans are expecting.

What's happening at Auggie? Are they still planning to go D1 in all sports?

[HerdBot]

I am willing to bet this will happen much sooner than most Summit League fans are expecting.

All it takes in basketball is 1 really good recruit or transfer

[mvfcfan]

Thanks for stopping by. I was unaware that the MVC would even give UT Arlington a sniff. They are in the UIC range for basketball prestige. If the MVC is thinking about them, then they've fallen farther than I imagined.

I used to spend a lot of time reading the MVC board. I'd get excited whenever there was expansion talk, hoping that NDSU or NSDU with SDSU would get a look. However, there's clearly not any interest among fans or MVC schools in considering the Dakotas. It is kind of odd, because the Dakotas are actually located in the Missouri River Valley. It wants to be a bus league (which I think screams "we're small-time").

In any case, I'm very much over the MVC. It isn't the conference it was 20-30 years ago. You still have some great teams and great atmosphere at many MVC venues. But it isn't worth a move. I've grown comfortable with the Summit. I continue to hope for a move to an FBS conference. However, if that never happens, or if we move in football only, I'm okay staying in the Summit. We generally get in the NCAA dance every other year or so and we have a really good conference tournament.

Even so, I wish the Sycamores luck this season. I'm a mild fan of your school. I grew up during the Larry Bird era. I even played a game of pick-up ball with his brother Eddie once at their house in French Lick.

Swing by this board anytime!

I'm not sure what the MVC wants to be honestly. To me it seems like they are trying to add schools in big media markets. The problem is that they are going after schools that no one in these media markets cares about. I think the MVC brass should look at the Horizon League as a prime example of what NOT to do. They have schools in the large metros of Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dayton, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh; and it hasn't done anything for them. All of those schools of course are second or third (or worse) thoughts in those cities.

If the MVC wants to expand and add members that will move the needle in a positive direction they need to go after schools that have actual fan support such as the XDSU's and Murray State. In my view not adding the Dakota's because of travel; or in Murray's case because of travel partners / 11 doesn't work are just excuses, especially when they are talking to a school in Texas. The real reason is because for whatever reason the private schools in our league think football is holding the conference (public schools) back. They were kind of willing to overlook it with Murray State because their football is generally not very good, and they were still snubbed for Valpo who has awful facilities and far less fan support. In the case of the XDSU's they aren't willing to overlook football since you all actually try and are usually both ranked in the top 5 every year.

I'm actually not sure why the 5 MVC publics and the 4 Dakota schools haven't worked to try to create a new all sports conference. It wouldn't take very long for us to be just as good, if not better than the current MVC IMO. I know that the 5 MVC publics have a long relationship with Bradley, Drake, and Evansville; but at some point I feel like you have to what's best for you and play with other schools with the same all around interests you have.

But yes I think the Dakotas would be wise to stay away. It seems like you all have a good thing going in the Summit League anyways. Between the 4 Dakotas and Oral Roberts it has become a pretty good league. I'd argue it has passed up the Horizon League and it has definitely been gaining ground on the MVC. The only reason the eastern schools left (particularly the IUP's recently) probably was for travel.

[Professorbum]

I'm not sure what the MVC wants to be honestly. To me it seems like they are trying to add schools in big media markets. The problem is that they are going after schools that no one in these media markets cares about. I think the MVC brass should look at the Horizon League as a prime example of what NOT to do. They have schools in the large metros of Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dayton, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh; and it hasn't done anything for them. All of those schools of course are second or third (or worse) thoughts in those cities.

If the MVC wants to expand and add members that will move the needle in a positive direction they need to go after schools that have actual fan support such as the XDSU's and Murray State. In my view not adding the Dakota's because of travel; or in Murray's case because of travel partners / 11 doesn't work are just excuses, especially when they are talking to a school in Texas. The real reason is because for whatever reason the private schools in our league think football is holding the conference (public schools) back. They were kind of willing to overlook it with Murray State because their football is generally not very good, and they were still snubbed for Valpo who has awful facilities and far less fan support. In the case of the XDSU's they aren't willing to overlook football since you all actually try and are usually both ranked in the top 5 every year.

I'm actually not sure why the 5 MVC publics and the 4 Dakota schools haven't worked to try to create a new all sports conference. It wouldn't take very long for us to be just as good, if not better than the current MVC IMO. I know that the 5 MVC publics have a long relationship with Bradley, Drake, and Evansville; but at some point I feel like you have to what's best for you and play with other schools with the same all around interests you have.

But yes I think the Dakotas would be wise to stay away. It seems like you all have a good thing going in the Summit League anyways. Between the 4 Dakotas and Oral Roberts it has become a pretty good league. I'd argue it has passed up the Horizon League and it has definitely been gaining ground on the MVC. The only reason the eastern schools left (particularly the IUP's recently) probably was for travel.

Good comments. I'm not surprised that the publics have stuck around in the MVC rather than create a new conference. As Herdbot noted, MVC still does have the history and some prestige. Of course, so did Big East football and the world got over that dissolution pretty quickly.

I 100% agree with you about the folly of chasing media markets. There's been some good articles I've read recently in the context of football that point out how dumb it is to be focused on tv markets. You need fans and energy and success. Rutgers has not cut it for the B1G, the NYC metro market notwithstanding.

[HerdBot]

I'm not sure what the MVC wants to be honestly. To me it seems like they are trying to add schools in big media markets. The problem is that they are going after schools that no one in these media markets cares about. I think the MVC brass should look at the Horizon League as a prime example of what NOT to do. They have schools in the large metros of Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dayton, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh; and it hasn't done anything for them. All of those schools of course are second or third (or worse) thoughts in those cities.

If the MVC wants to expand and add members that will move the needle in a positive direction they need to go after schools that have actual fan support such as the XDSU's and Murray State. In my view not adding the Dakota's because of travel; or in Murray's case because of travel partners / 11 doesn't work are just excuses, especially when they are talking to a school in Texas. The real reason is because for whatever reason the private schools in our league think football is holding the conference (public schools) back. They were kind of willing to overlook it with Murray State because their football is generally not very good, and they were still snubbed for Valpo who has awful facilities and far less fan support. In the case of the XDSU's they aren't willing to overlook football since you all actually try and are usually both ranked in the top 5 every year.

I'm actually not sure why the 5 MVC publics and the 4 Dakota schools haven't worked to try to create a new all sports conference. It wouldn't take very long for us to be just as good, if not better than the current MVC IMO. I know that the 5 MVC publics have a long relationship with Bradley, Drake, and Evansville; but at some point I feel like you have to what's best for you and play with other schools with the same all around interests you have.

But yes I think the Dakotas would be wise to stay away. It seems like you all have a good thing going in the Summit League anyways. Between the 4 Dakotas and Oral Roberts it has become a pretty good league. I'd argue it has passed up the Horizon League and it has definitely been gaining ground on the MVC. The only reason the eastern schools left (particularly the IUP's recently) probably was for travel.

The whole media market concept is becomingly increasingly obsolete since the days of cable TV is going away and there are more options to watch games.

That same media market concept gave the Big Ten Rutgers who does nothing for their brand. They've won 10 games in Football since 2015. They are barely the most popular college football team in the city of New York and nobody outside of New York cares. It's a pro sports town. Large metros are becoming increasingly less native. Example in New York, there are just as many Notre Dame and Penn State fans as Rutgers fans. Fans of those teams won't buy the BTN because of Rutgers. Maybe it will help Rutgers with attendance but 2019 only sold 30K tickets per game with 50% no shows.

Kansas State would have been ten times the addition to the Big Ten despite being in a smaller market. Kansas state has half the enrollment and half the endowment but people care about K State football. Their ratings vs other Big Ten teams would be much better than Rutgers.

Nebraska was a very smart move. Lincoln is a much smaller media market but the Huskers are the entire state of Nebraska and everyone wants to watch them.

On a smaller scale, that's like saying a conference should pick UMKC over NDSU or SDSU because Kansas City is bigger than North and South Dakota combined, even though more eyeballs watch NDSU and SDSU.