NDSU vs Sundogs

[bisonp]

http://www.inforum.com/sports/bison/...ssing-era-over

Since the schools left the North Central Conference and NCAA Division II to move up to Division I -- NDSU first in 2004 and UND four years later -- both schools have taken turns dangling carrots in front of each other, taunting each other and thinking they are one-upping their biggest rival when they were only hurting themselves.

First, it was UND’s turn.

After then-UND President Charles Kupchella didn’t have the foresight to go to Division I along with NDSU, the UND athletic department opted against scheduling the Bison in all sports.

UND said playing the Bison in football could have hurt its chances to make the Division II playoffs and host a game. While that part was true, the fact that UND wouldn’t schedule the Bison in any other sport signaled a different story: UND wanted to stick it to its rival, which was having trouble filling out quality schedules as an independent in Division I.

Once UND reached Division I, North Dakota State did the same to UND, refusing to schedule its rival out of spite.

What a load of BS. How has NDSU hurt themselves by not scheduling UND? Why is doing what's best for the school considered "spite"? The fact is this game doesn't bring anything to NDSU that any other non-conference would. What it does is give some legitimacy to UND, which can have a direct and negative impact on recruiting.

[bisonp]

Honestly if we wanted a good chant, forget anything Sioux related, just "Sun-dogs, sun-dogs" would be much funnier....

That's good...but...we need incorporate Rough Riders. That way we can steer them towards voting for Sundogs.

On second thought, it probably doesn't matter, either nickname will make for decades of fun.

[cbline]

What a load of BS. How has NDSU hurt themselves by not scheduling UND? Why is doing what's best for the school considered "spite"? The fact is this game doesn't bring anything to NDSU that any other non-conference would. What it does is give some legitimacy to UND, which can have a direct and negative impact on recruiting.

Yes! On the revenue side, a sold-out Fargo Dome is a sold-out Fargo Dome. The Dome does not magically get more seats when und comes to town.

Interesting piece of writing from Tuesday's Forum: "But if you're like the many who didn't, just head online, grab your credit card and pay $1000. That's what some prime seats are going for on StubHub, because these game tickets sold out at nearly record speed over a month ago."

Hey, Forum! Listen up! Tickets for ALL of the NDSU games sold out in about an hour back in August. And, guess what??? They also sold out in the same time back in 2014, and 2013, and . . . . . The presence of the und game did NOTHING to speed up the time in which the tickets were sold.

[siouxfan512]

What a load of BS. How has NDSU hurt themselves by not scheduling UND? Why is doing what's best for the school considered "spite"? The fact is this game doesn't bring anything to NDSU that any other non-conference would. What it does is give some legitimacy to UND, which can have a direct and negative impact on recruiting.

Well, I didn't write the article, but back during the transition I believe it was hard for a new independent school to fill out the schedule, and I think it was a huge mistake for UND to not keep that game on the schedule. Talking to friends who are Bison fans, they are always quick to point out UND ended the rivalry (and they are right) when NDSU went D1, and at the time NDSU could have used the game on the schedule. Heck we scheduled UNI, why not NDSU.

As for the "spite" factor, I don't buy it. I just don't think there was anything for NDSU to gain at the time. I have hear there was quite a bit of animosity between the ADs, but I maintain that it had more to do with the fact that NDSU just didn't need us.

[THEsocalledfan]

I'm glad it is back, this year, but alot would have to change for this to ever be a annual game; starting with UND improving the program.

You nailed this; this is delusion I can't figure out with your fan base. They some how think that they are entitled to this game in GF, when NDSU has nothing to gain from annual home and home contracts. When you point that out, you are immediately labelled as an idiot, stupid, dumb, a troll, or whatever. Why are they playing? Because this benefited NDSU in getting to 6 home games in 2015 and 2019 for very cheap. Unless your community college can provide that type of value again, it just is not happening. Your community college would be wiser, in my mind, to try to find a way to crack into Summit/MVFC. That is the only way to get home and homes, and stabilizing the Summit is a good thing for NDSU.

[siouxfan512]

You nailed this; this is delusion I can't figure out with your fan base. They some how think that they are entitled to this game in GF, when NDSU has nothing to gain from annual home and home contracts. When you point that out, you are immediately labelled as an idiot, stupid, dumb, a troll, or whatever. Why are they playing? Because this benefited NDSU in getting to 6 home games in 2015 and 2019 for very cheap. Unless your community college can provide that type of value again, it just is not happening. Your community college would be wiser, in my mind, to try to find a way to crack into Summit/MVFC. That is the only way to get home and homes, and stabilizing the Summit is a good thing for NDSU.

The only legitimate argument I have heard against this, is there was really no benefit to NDSU scheduling a home and home with Weber St either. Other than that, we need to get some winning under our belt before this rivalry is worth making annual. Or NDSU would have to go on a steady decline, but I don't see that happening anytime in the forseeable future. 4 consecutive championships tends to put a bit of stability in a program.

[NorthernBison]

You nailed this; this is delusion I can't figure out with your fan base. They some how think that they are entitled to this game in GF, when NDSU has nothing to gain from annual home and home contracts. When you point that out, you are immediately labelled as an idiot, stupid, dumb, a troll, or whatever. Why are they playing? Because this benefited NDSU in getting to 6 home games in 2015 and 2019 for very cheap. Unless your community college can provide that type of value again, it just is not happening. Your community college would be wiser, in my mind, to try to find a way to crack into Summit/MVFC. That is the only way to get home and homes, and stabilizing the Summit is a good thing for NDSU.

I think the most likely (only?) possibility for an annual game is with the programs in the same conference. IMO, that probably won't be UND in the MVFC either. More likely both programs in a conference composed of former MVFC and Big Sky programs. Potentially in a different Big Sky conference as I really don't see much of the MVFC programs in a position to step up their football programs.

[SC_TX]

The only legitimate argument I have heard against this, is there was really no benefit to NDSU scheduling a home and home with Weber St either. Other than that, we need to get some winning under our belt before this rivalry is worth making annual. Or NDSU would have to go on a steady decline, but I don't see that happening anytime in the forseeable future. 4 consecutive championships tends to put a bit of stability in a program.

and that was my argument. Thank You Sioux man

[Bison 4 Life]

You nailed this; this is delusion I can't figure out with your fan base. They some how think that they are entitled to this game in GF, when NDSU has nothing to gain from annual home and home contracts. When you point that out, you are immediately labelled as an idiot, stupid, dumb, a troll, or whatever. Why are they playing? Because this benefited NDSU in getting to 6 home games in 2015 and 2019 for very cheap. Unless your community college can provide that type of value again, it just is not happening. Your community college would be wiser, in my mind, to try to find a way to crack into Summit/MVFC. That is the only way to get home and homes, and stabilizing the Summit is a good thing for NDSU.

Agreed. This is absolutely not NDSU's fault. It's Roger Thomas, Charles Kupchella, Thomas Clifford, Roger Thomas, and der Reichsmarschall himself, Ralph Engelstad. They all screwed up. The name, the reclassification, the conference affiliation, all of it.

UND should have changed their name a long time ago.
UND should have gone Division I right away.
UND should have been in the same conference with all the other Dakota schools.

If all that had happened, this would still be a yearly game. I agree that it's not presently in the best interest for NDSU to schedule a yearly game with UND OOC.

Hope UND loves the Big Sky. Maybe they can get a rivalry going with Northern Colorado? They don't have an instate rival either.

[siouxfan512]

I think the most likely (only?) possibility for an annual game is with the programs in the same conference. IMO, that probably won't be UND in the MVFC either. More likely both programs in a conference composed of former MVFC and Big Sky programs. Potentially in a different Big Sky conference as I really don't see much of the MVFC programs in a position to step up their football programs.

Probably the most realistic way it would become annual.

NDSU
SDSU
UND
USD
Maybe the MT schools?
I don't know who else?

Probably wouldn't happen for quite some time anyway.