NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

[The_Sicatoka]

Texan: I enjoy the logical, normally dissenting, discourse with you as well. I think we'd both agree that if you don't have differing opinions you haven't thought something through. I'll stay and play nice because you originally asked.

tony: A University is supposed to be a place with open discussion of issues, from all points of view. It is not supposed to be of a monolithic opinion. It's called "diversity." Love it. NDSU promotes it. (By the way, I do work elsewhere in private business as well and a dissenting opinion is welcomed. It makes sure potential problems are addressed before they ever occur. A dissenting opinion normally works out for the greater good in the end.)

And it is supposed to be a University first, a professional sports minor league second. NDSU has some serious non-athletic facilities issues and other fiscal issues also. The two million dollars per year in additional funds raised to fund DI athletics would make the labs and facilities on campus beyond compare.

A greater NDSU is not just about athletics. Will you be working as hard to raise NDSU's standing academically as athletically by raising funds for academic facilities and scholarships?

[tony]

The problem is this, Sicatoka- nothing you have written indicates that you have any desire to see NDSU become a better place. You are the passive-aggressive poster boy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, dissent is good, diversity is good. Man, where did you learn to become such a victim? Dissent from other faculty is understandable because they are motivated in most cases by a true concern for NDSU. You are not.

Sicatoka, what are you motivated by?

I can't wait for this answer as you, once again, pretend to yourself that the number #1 concern is for NDSU when it is evident to everybody but you that it's not.

[The_Sicatoka]

What am I motivated by? Honestly?

My wallet. And let's be honest, when you get down to it, it's all about the Benjamins.

This is going to cost some serious money. Not only am I affected somewhat directly, but indirectly as a North Dakota taxpayer.

You can believe I'm passive-aggressive or any other amateur psychiatrist term that suits your fancy. That's fine. Keep on analyzing. You don't have to refute the points on merit that way.

You can believe I don't care about NDSU for that matter. To say I don't care about NDSU is saying I don't care about my students. You'd be dead wrong.

I could argue all day from the point of view that Division I is the right decision. Do you understand the counter-points well enough to argue that the move is somewhere between ill-timed to wrong?

Rise above the situation and look in from the outside. BOTH UND and NDSU have parts of this wrong. Yes, both.

NDSU should have done better at getting facilities in order before the operational cash flow needs expand by $2 million annually. Having the funding in place for a new BB facility would have been wise. You could also make a case that they should have harder pressed the NCC (with SDSU and UNC along side) to move up as a whole to relieve many of the costs associated with travel.

UND should have and should still better listen to NDSU's points regarding the degradation of Division II. Reading the press (and believing little) it seems that UND has dismissed many of NDSU's concerns in that area out of hand.

NDSU acted a little before all of their (fiscal and facilities) ducks were in a row. UND is staying too restrained and frankly they do sound a little negativist regard such a change at times.

However, both agree something needs to be done. One believes DII can be fixed. The other believes DI is the solution. Who's right? We'll find out.

Or who knows. The magic date I mentioned before is 09/01/03. I brought it up not because I thought NDSU'd back away but that maybe UND'd jump into the pool. Then EVERYONE would be asking me for more money.

Texas: I believe most of UNC's scholarships are now endowed. And didn't they recently upgrade their football facilities? (Wasn't it late in the 1990s they made improvements?)

[BisonInTexas]

Texas: I believe most of UNC's scholarships are now endowed. And didn't they recently upgrade their football facilities? (Wasn't it late in the 1990s they made improvements?)

They did build a new facility since I have been there in '88. However, they weren't exactly forward-looking and still have some work to do:

Nottingham Field Facts
Cost to build: $4.0 million
Completed: Spring, 1995
Capacity: 6,500
Surface: Natural Grass
First Game: Sept. 9, 1995 (Att. - 6,341)
Overall Record at Nottingham: 39-5 (.886)
Record vs. NCC Schools at Nottingham: 30-3 (.909)
Playoff Record at Nottingham: 3-1 (.750)
Longest Winning Streak: 16 games (10/18/98 to 11/20/99)
Average Attendance: 5,005 (220,208 in 44 games)
Largest Attendance: 7,520 (Oct. 23, 1999)

They aren't exactly going to rake in the bucks with a seating capacity of 6500. It is a good thing they have the scholarships paid for! I would say NDSU is better prepared for the transition than UNC is.

Craig

[tony]

It's all about the money, is it? In your worst case scenario, how much do you think this move could end up costing you? If NDSU's athletic department ran a $2 million deficit and the state picked up the tab, would that cost you more than $10/year? All this effort wasting time posting about this issue here, there, and everywhere, for an imaginary $10 a year! Fascinating. *

Moreover, to think that a $2 million deficit is likely, you have to believe two things; one, the marketing survey is flawed; two, the state would pick up the deficit rather than tell NDSU to cut expenses. You've offered nothing to support the first point and are totally divorced from reality if you think there is a chance in hell the second thing will occur.

The reason I'm not treating you with respect is that I don't like *people who are not direct and honest with me.

[siouxrock]

Still nobody has give me ONE sport that ndsu is better at then the sioux wiht 5,000 fans a game?
how come?
THATS RITE, THIER ANIT NO SOPORTS TEH NDSU IS BETTER AT THEN THE SIOUX WITH 5,000 FANS

[The_Sicatoka]

tony:

A US Senator was once quoted as saying, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."

In a State with a population of about 600,000, in a State that has already had to cut the budget by 1% this fiscal year, and in a State that has had to take $25,000,000.00 from Bank of ND operating profits to cover deficits (instead of cutting an additional 2.5% from budgets) this year, yes, $2,000,000.00 dollars is a big deal. Especially when it's not $2,000,000.00 as a one time shot, but as a potential annual shortfall for up to a decade. And that's just the annual operating revenue side of the conversation.

One the long-term facilities construction side of the issue, the up-front risk management of the cost side of the equation should have been better dealt with because that'll be a big player, like $40,000,000.00.

[tony]

Still avoiding the central points, I see.

You have no proof except wishful thinking that NDSU will run a significant deficit so back it up!

You seem to think that the state legislature will cover an operating deficit in NDSU's athletic department, well, back it up!

You seem to think NDSU is planning on asking the state for new and improved athletic facilities because they are moving to DI, back it up!

I breathlessly await your answer.

Hey, Jamestown College is going DII, if not this year, then soon. Can the rest of the DAC be far behind?

[The_Sicatoka]

You have no proof except wishful thinking that NDSU will run a significant deficit so back it up!

The Carr Report listed fundraising and facilities as significant issues to overcome.

I'm sure the efforts on the fundraising have begun, but those issues still exist.

The U of Montana, the best comparison case, ended last year in the red and that was after a IAA FB title and an NCAA BB tournament appearance.

Northern Iowa had to cut programs to try to drain some red ink.

I can't show NDSU will be in the red until it happens, but then it's too late. NDSU doesn't have red ink today, but the best comparsions point directly to it.

You seem to think that the state legislature will cover an operating deficit in NDSU's athletic department, well, back it up!

NDSU is "owned" by the ND University System and the ND State Board of Higher Ed. All of that is "owned" by the State of ND. All debt incurred by any of those entities is guaranteed by the good faith and trust of the State of ND. That is undeniable. The State has ultimate responsibility to all debts incurred by its entities.

I pray it never gets that far. That could be ugly.

You seem to think NDSU is planning on asking the state for new and improved athletic facilities because they are moving to DI, back it up!

And NDSU won't ask the State for a building. They'll ask Fargo. NDSU has already asked FargoDome to evaluate putting up an 8000 to 9000 seat arena.

I breathlessly await your answer.

Breathe.

[The_Sicatoka]

Hey, Jamestown College is going DII, if not this year, then soon. Can the rest of the DAC be far behind?

JC? I had figured Dickinson State would be the first to make that move.

But the fundamental question is this:

Does moving to Division II make Jamestown College a comparable institution to North Dakota State University?

If your view of a University is strictly 120 yards long by 53.3 yards wide: Yes.

If your view of a University is of a total package of academics, research, and programs associated with the University (like athletics): Not a chance.

I read somewhere that MIT is a D-III. It must be a really crummy school.