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Thread: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

  1. #11
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    Default Re: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

    Sicatoka, I was hoping that you'd organize your thoughts and then post. If anything you've become less coherent. It's hard to have a discussion with you if you can't focus. Foooooccccccusssss.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

    Like my first post said, you may have to re-read to digest it all.

    I haven't changed any previous text or the locations of it. I just added headings to help with flow.

    I could make some quippy comment like "focus," but it's not worth the effort.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

    U name one sport the the bison are better then the sioux that draws over 5,000 fans
    thast rite none
    hahahahahhahahahahaha

  4. #14
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    Default Re: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

    Sicatoka, headings are a poor substitute for making sense.

    Look up "sophist" and see if it applies to you. Look up "specious" while you're at it. The biggest reason you are against NDSU going DI is because it's NDSU doing it and not UND. You show this in every single thing you write about this issue. Stop fooling yourself.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

    NOBODY STILL HASNT NAMED A SPORT NDSU IS BETTER AT THEN UND WIHT MORE THEN 5000 FANS

  6. #16
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    Default Re: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
    Yes, NDSU should look at the saliency of points brought out by the columnist.
    And the salient points pertinent to the decision made over a month ago would be...? This would change NDSU's transition plans how?
    I'm torn. I'd like to see UND go Division I. That's the rah-rah "Go Sioux" side of me. The rational pragmatist says the logistics (conference, finances) need to be better understood (up front risk management) before making such a move.

    <snip for length>

    They can turn just as fast as NDSU did two years ago regarding adding D-I hockey. (Taylor has said hockey is off the radar for at least 10 years with this move.)
    Hockey should be off the radar. If that is not "up front risk management" and being a "rational pragmatist" when dealing with a move to DI, what is?

    Heck, if they do turn on a dime, they can blame it on NDSU and SDSU.
    They already are beginning to blame NDSU and they will turn on a dime.

    How is NDSU's decision a bad one?

    They haven't managed the risks (conference, money, facilities) well up front.

    Yes, they have studies and surveys. It looks wonderful on paper. Do they have the dollars in hand or new arena (for BB) or conference affiliation? No. They just expect it to happen because a report says it could.
    How in the hell are they supposed to have dollars in hand before they even make a decision? Or for that matter before they even know what it will cost? Ask for money just in case they decide to go DI at some point in the future? They have two years to get fund raising going. As you state later, "Patience". First you generate a proposed budget, then you figure out how much you need to raise, then you go out and raise the money. They have the proposed budgets. They are working on the fund raising aspects - that is Erv Inniger's only job.

    As far as the "They just expect it to happen because a report says it could." What facts do you base this statement on? Or is this just wishful thinking on your part?

    UND has the vote last spring by students allowing them to raise fees to turn Hyslop into a wellness center. Dollars in hand. A campus wellness center is a D-I requirement. Coincidence? I'd guess not.
    NDSU already has a campus wellness center, if I am not mistaken. Does this not qualify as "upfront risk management" and "dollars in hand"?

    UND has the plan to modify old REA into the new BB/VB facility. The same student vote allows some of the funds to go for that. There's the facilities plan. Add to that that the plan includes new athletic training facilities and there's a complete facilities plan.
    Not sure what this has to do with NDSU, so I will take it that this is meant to show the superior organization of UND and that NDSU has no plan. Let's see: UND has a plan, but no definite funds (other than "some" of the funds from student activity fee authorization) for the old REA, and a plan but no "dollars in hand" whatsoever for the rest of their proposed facilities. Hmm, sounds like they don't meet your rational pragmatist requirements of "dollars in hand" to me. Not that it matters to me, though, as I think the "dollars in hand" argument is bogus. Why? Because NDSU is still evaluating what they are going to do with the BSA and the indoor track, etc. Here is a quote from the DI Decision report in the Forum:

    And the Bison Sports Arena is undergoing plans for renovation.

    A new indoor track is being proposed, whether it be at a new facility or the BSA. If NDSU wants Division I indoor competition, it will need eight lanes instead of its current six.

    "It's been fun talking with the architects," Godfrey said. "We're taking steps in the right direction."


    Sounds like some plans are being formed. Once again, how can you ask for money if you don't know the final cost or even if you are going to use the same building? What is preventing the Bison from starting DI with the BSA as is and improving it later? Nothing - this doesn't affect the time table for the transition at all. The BSA will be improved but it is not a requirement for entering DI.


    Sorry I had to shorten some quotes to get this message to meet the length requirements. More to follow.
    Craig

  7. #17
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    Default Re: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
    Conference? UND appears to be taking the wait and see approach. What will SDSU do? That matters in terms of conference, travel, opponents, logistics, and costs.

    Sound like a "get it done up front, then jump" approach to me. Sounds like managing risks up front to me.

    If or when UND would jump, they'd have to worry only about raising operating revenue. All of the other pieces would be in place.
    No, UND is still going to have to find a conference, just like NDSU. What makes you think that will be a given when the time comes? I take it you also assume that all facilities will be complete and funded before UND decides to move up. *That is not a given either.

    Conference? OK, I'll give you that one. You won't get a conference unless you are committed, unless your name is California-Davis. They got effectively begged to move up by their neighbors. Or unless there is a conference that is forming up that would like you to join. That's what may happen if SDSU moves up.

    I'm not saying the decision by NDSU to go to D-I is wrong. I'm saying the decision, without solid things in hand, is logistically mis-timed.
    OK, so you admit that NDSU is managing the conference risk as well as possible, after holding that up as a reason in the earlier part of this article that they weren't managing that risk.

    What "solid things in hand" and at which time (logistically speaking of course) should NDSU have them to move to DI?

    The NCAA re-evaluates all of its divisions and requirements to be in the division in 2004. Do we know what'll come out of that? No. It's a long time until then. A lot can happen.
    Yeah and a lot can not happen too. *The only given is that by 2004 DII will have accepted umpteen other schools with <2000 enrollment and athletic budgets 1/10 of UND's and NDSU's.

    Remember, NDSU is using 2003-2004, not this season, as their provisional year. A school has to get its paperwork into the NCAA and the NCC by 09/01/03 to do that. That's still quite a while away. A lot can happen.
    If you are hoping that NDSU will change its mind, you will be disappointed.
    The key question for JBB and tony
    And if this is the right decision for NDSU, why do you care what UND or The Herald thinks?
    Not to speak for JBB *or tony, but the only reason we post comments on the Herald's/UND's articles is because Sioux fans post them on this board as proof that the Bison are making a mistake. *We could really care less about what they "think".

    Craig

  8. #18
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    Default Re: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

    Wellness center? Good work by NDSU. Up front planning, but it's a D-I requirement too.

    Basketball arena? I'd hate to have to be begging for operating dollars and arena financing dollars at the same time. That's a lot of money to be asking for.

    Northern Colorado has most (if not all) of their scholarship currently endowed. They won't have to go on the road asking for even that money annually any more. Has NDSU put themselves in such a forward-looking position? I don't know. I hope so.

    Sure, I already said I'm torn on the D-I issue.

    The prime difference between you folks and me is that I'm not completely bought into whatever decision my alma mater makes.

    I'm also a taxpayer in this State.

    Now I'll leave you with one other revelation: I lecture at NDSU. By reading this you're hearing some of the rumblings of the non-athletic department faculty and staff.

    I know you don't want to hear me any more. Fine. I'll leave.

    Final thought before I go: Time will make some of us right and some of us wrong. Believe me or not, I hope NDSU makes my fears of future financial problems related to this move wrong.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

    I'm sure there are lots of taxpayers who wouldn't be happy to know you are at NDSU. Who wouldn't want an employee on the staff who constantly compares their employer's company unfavorably with the competition? If you were in the private sector, that and your lack of professionalism would have you looking for a new job before you could spell, "Hockey rules!"

    You do not represent the rumblings of the faculty except those faculty, who like you, are UND grads who can't separate being a fan of UND from being an employees of NDSU. In other words, you only speak for yourself.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: NDSU shouldn't go DI because...

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
    Wellness center? Good work by NDSU. Up front planning, but it's a D-I requirement too.

    Basketball arena? I'd hate to have to be begging for operating dollars and arena financing dollars at the same time. That's a lot of money to be asking for.

    Northern Colorado has most (if not all) of their scholarship currently endowed. They won't have to go on the road asking for even that money annually any more. Has NDSU put themselves in such a forward-looking position? I don't know. I hope so.

    Sure, I already said I'm torn on the D-I issue.

    The prime difference between you folks and me is that I'm not completely bought into whatever decision my alma mater makes.

    I'm also a taxpayer in this State.

    Now I'll leave you with one other revelation: I lecture at NDSU. By reading this you're hearing some of the rumblings of the non-athletic department faculty and staff.

    I know you don't want to hear me any more. Fine. I'll leave.

    Final thought before I go: Time will make some of us right and some of us wrong. Believe me or not, I hope NDSU makes my fears of future financial problems related to this move wrong.
    Sicatoka,

    No one has asked you to leave (hell I asked you to sign up, remember? ). I enjoy the banter and debate, personally.

    As far as UNC goes, they have huge facilities issues (have you ever seen the football stadium there? Have they built a new one that I am unaware of?). They still have to fund the increased scholarships as well.

    And just because I support the DI decision doesn't mean I am some mindless drone that supports whatever NDSU decides, anymore than you are a mindless drone because you agree with UND staying put.

    Craig

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