EDT: Fargodome Expansion Vote vs Old Man Yells at Cloud (12-5-23)

[1998braves64]

Yikes the "engineering/construction" knowledge in this forum is a bit frightening. Is it impossible hell nothing is impossible? Is it FEASIBLE a big hell no to redo the roof of the Fargodome.

You would not be able to phase by phase remove the roof and have anything going on in the Dome while deconstruction is in the process of happening even if there is no active work at the time of said event(s). No construction company is going to have that liability hanging over their head.

The main roof structure of the Fargodome is held up by 2 very extremely large trusses, and a couple of smaller large trusses between the columns, so no you can't just remove 1 corner post and the rest of the building is fine. You literally would have to deconstruct the roof backward of how it was built. Rip off the roofing, insulation, metal decking, and "smaller" joists, and remove all the catwalks/wiring ductwork and other stuff running through the roof. Then you can start on those 4 trusses that are supported by the 4 main columns that cause everyone so much heartache.

Oh, keep in mind there are only a very very small amount of people who know how to do this properly and safely since you're trying to keep the "integrity" of the rest of the Fargodome from essentially top of the walls (seating) down. So whatever it would take to BUILD a structure like that might as well multiply that schedule by 2 if not more because of all the safety aspects that need to be addressed for the workers deconstructing. After stuff has been loaded up it acts differently than it did when it was built when you start taking loads off. I'd say 1-2 years is the minimum it would take just to deconstruct the entire roof.

So any intelligent guesses as to how much that would cost?! Paying people to work twice as long as it took to build it, at much higher wages (than even today's typical construction worker for building is) due to specialty workers needed to perform this work, and you haven't even started building the new roof yet. Even if you did the Pole Barn cover concept. You might as well take that money and dump it on El Chapo's outdoor stadium because it would be much more "wisely" spent doing that.

(I work in the construction industry, if you want to discuss this more in depth send me a PM, or if you want to question my knowledge feel free to as well!)

[GreenfieldBison]

And while I was in there, I read a letter to the letter by a guy named Todd Gross who said that the FARGODOME should be run like our households and businesses and put money aside for future expenditures. I think that is a simplistic answer as the DOME has always put money aside and was able to do some major improvements (according to memory) such as turf replacement and video boards and so forth. Plus they have had a surplus of $40 million and never had to dip into the General Fund.

In reading the article, I do think the DOME Authority and others are contrite but I felt really bad for Charlie Johnson and his comments as he is blaming himself for stuff that went wrong. How many people do that these days and assume responsibility for things when they go wrong?

Saw that Todd Gross letter too. There is a large segment of the population (used to include me) who believe that government should be run like a business. Short answer: that don't work! Government is infinitely more complex than a business. Any business.

[runtheoption]

​

...No construction company is going to have that liability hanging over their head...

Best part of your post. Bada bing!

[The_Sicatoka]

Yikes the "engineering/construction" knowledge in this forum is a bit frightening.

The worst words an engineer can hear from a customer, salesperson, or (non-engineer) project manager --> "All you have to do is ... "
(I stole it from an engineering collegue but it's true.)

Or as another engineer collegue once mused: Your enunciation of it neither implies nor infers anyone's ability to implement it. <-- translation: easier said than done

[EndZoneQB]

Saw that Todd Gross letter too. There is a large segment of the population (used to include me) who believe that government should be run like a business. Short answer: that don't work! Government is infinitely more complex than a business. Any business.

This is an insane feeling that has crept into the mainstream thanks to coordinated propaganda. We should raise taxes in times of prosperity to have money for when things aren't going well(or to pay off the last time), but taxes are a swear word now, despite the fact the benefactors of our taxes are NOT the people...well, I guess it is if you include the SCOTUS ridiculous interpretation that corps ARE people, too. God forbid we have a functioning middle class with social safety nets in the world's richest country.

The worst words an engineer can hear from a customer, salesperson, or (non-engineer) project manager --> "All you have to do is ... "
(I stole it from an engineering collegue but it's true.)

Or as another engineer collegue once mused: Your enunciation of it neither implies nor infers anyone's ability to implement it. <-- translation: easier said than done

I love this. I hate hearing "well the salesman told us...". Really fun to break it to someone that their fancy new widget doesn't do what they think it does.

[GreenfieldBison]

Yikes the "engineering/construction" knowledge in this forum is a bit frightening. Is it impossible hell nothing is impossible? Is it FEASIBLE a big hell no to redo the roof of the Fargodome.

You would not be able to phase by phase remove the roof and have anything going on in the Dome while deconstruction is in the process of happening even if there is no active work at the time of said event(s). No construction company is going to have that liability hanging over their head.

The main roof structure of the Fargodome is held up by 2 very extremely large trusses, and a couple of smaller large trusses between the columns, so no you can't just remove 1 corner post and the rest of the building is fine. You literally would have to deconstruct the roof backward of how it was built. Rip off the roofing, insulation, metal decking, and "smaller" joists, and remove all the catwalks/wiring ductwork and other stuff running through the roof. Then you can start on those 4 trusses that are supported by the 4 main columns that cause everyone so much heartache.

Oh, keep in mind there are only a very very small amount of people who know how to do this properly and safely since you're trying to keep the "integrity" of the rest of the Fargodome from essentially top of the walls (seating) down. So whatever it would take to BUILD a structure like that might as well multiply that schedule by 2 if not more because of all the safety aspects that need to be addressed for the workers deconstructing. After stuff has been loaded up it acts differently than it did when it was built when you start taking loads off. I'd say 1-2 years is the minimum it would take just to deconstruct the entire roof.

So any intelligent guesses as to how much that would cost?! Paying people to work twice as long as it took to build it, at much higher wages (than even today's typical construction worker for building is) due to specialty workers needed to perform this work, and you haven't even started building the new roof yet. Even if you did the Pole Barn cover concept. You might as well take that money and dump it on El Chapo's outdoor stadium because it would be much more "wisely" spent doing that.

(I work in the construction industry, if you want to discuss this more in depth send me a PM, or if you want to question my knowledge feel free to as well!)

Nope. Happy to have you weigh in. I was hoping that someone with construction management and/or architectural background would contribute and debunk the simple theory stuff.

[HerdBot]

And while I was in there, I read a letter to the letter by a guy named Todd Gross who said that the FARGODOME should be run like our households and businesses and put money aside for future expenditures. I think that is a simplistic answer as the DOME has always put money aside and was able to do some major improvements (according to memory) such as turf replacement and video boards and so forth. Plus they have had a surplus of $40 million and never had to dip into the General Fund.

In reading the article, I do think the DOME Authority and others are contrite but I felt really bad for Charlie Johnson and his comments as he is blaming himself for stuff that went wrong. How many people do that these days and assume responsibility for things when they go wrong?

He can start by turning comments off on all Facebook advertisements. That was the biggest failure. They got attacked by troll farms and the media saw it

[LefseBison]

Yikes the "engineering/construction" knowledge in this forum is a bit frightening. Is it impossible hell nothing is impossible? Is it FEASIBLE a big hell no to redo the roof of the Fargodome.

You would not be able to phase by phase remove the roof and have anything going on in the Dome while deconstruction is in the process of happening even if there is no active work at the time of said event(s). No construction company is going to have that liability hanging over their head.

The main roof structure of the Fargodome is held up by 2 very extremely large trusses, and a couple of smaller large trusses between the columns, so no you can't just remove 1 corner post and the rest of the building is fine. You literally would have to deconstruct the roof backward of how it was built. Rip off the roofing, insulation, metal decking, and "smaller" joists, and remove all the catwalks/wiring ductwork and other stuff running through the roof. Then you can start on those 4 trusses that are supported by the 4 main columns that cause everyone so much heartache.

Oh, keep in mind there are only a very very small amount of people who know how to do this properly and safely since you're trying to keep the "integrity" of the rest of the Fargodome from essentially top of the walls (seating) down. So whatever it would take to BUILD a structure like that might as well multiply that schedule by 2 if not more because of all the safety aspects that need to be addressed for the workers deconstructing. After stuff has been loaded up it acts differently than it did when it was built when you start taking loads off. I'd say 1-2 years is the minimum it would take just to deconstruct the entire roof.

So any intelligent guesses as to how much that would cost?! Paying people to work twice as long as it took to build it, at much higher wages (than even today's typical construction worker for building is) due to specialty workers needed to perform this work, and you haven't even started building the new roof yet. Even if you did the Pole Barn cover concept. You might as well take that money and dump it on El Chapo's outdoor stadium because it would be much more "wisely" spent doing that.

(I work in the construction industry, if you want to discuss this more in depth send me a PM, or if you want to question my knowledge feel free to as well!)

Does anyone remember when Minard Hall collapsed on the north side? I have zero, and I mean ZERO knowledge of construction or structural engineering but do we really want to mess with the massive FARGODOME's structural integrity? Plus our beloved soil in these parts!

[BigLakeBison]

Saw that Todd Gross letter too. There is a large segment of the population (used to include me) who believe that government should be run like a business. Short answer: that don't work! Government is infinitely more complex than a business. Any business.

Even the best run businesses realize that without having some debt on your books you're likely stifling your growth potential. Capital is needed for growth and funding growth 100% on your own slows down the growth significantly. The best run organizations use debt to fund growth while keeping their debt to revenue and debt to asset ratios in check so that they can keep cash flow strong. There is absolutely no large scale enterprise that 100% funds itself. It isn't sound financial strategy.

[The_Sicatoka]

Does anyone remember when Minard Hall collapsed on the north side? I have zero, and I mean ZERO knowledge of construction or structural engineering but do we really want to mess with the massive FARGODOME's structural integrity? Plus our beloved soil in these parts!

Minard had significant issues that I'd expect FD doesn't have.

And I'm pretty sure FD's pilings pop out of the ground near Beijing.