EDT: Fargodome Expansion Vote vs Old Man Yells at Cloud (12-5-23)

[southcliffbison]

Only 2 concerts + Disney On Ice ,but between the annual events it's certainly busy. You know, Monster Jam, Circus, Pancake Carnival, Rodeo, Rib Fest, State Wrestling, Marathon, Home Show, Boat Show, Sportsmans show, USA Wrestling, Rumble on the Red, High School Graduations etc. Lots of no revenue stuff filling dates

Sioux Falls seems to book a ton of concerts despite having to schedule around USHL Hockey and an Arena Football team. Those teams eat up weekends

The dome really need the addition even more than upgrades. But it needs both

The Red River Valley Fair already has more good shows than the Fargodome and they've only announced half the bands

Mark that Pancake Carnival down on your calendar.........it's on mine......

[GreenfieldBison]

Mark that Pancake Carnival down on your calendar.........it's on mine......

Not the rib fest???

[MyOhMy]

Mark that Pancake Carnival down on your calendar.........it's on mine......

I still have the Forum newspaper clipping of the pic with my grandpa and I at the Kiwanis Pancake feed in the Fargo Civic Arena back when I was 6ish. We went every year growing up, good times.

[HerdBot]

The dome should be able to fund most everything minus the conference center, without a sales tax or a vote.

How do they pay for it?

Use the surplus fund earnings to pay for a loan or bond.

Earnings on 40-50 million dollar surplus has to be 2-5 million a year.

I don't know much about loans for municipalities, but my amatuer math says that should cover between 50 to 70 million over a 30 year loan, while keeping the principle mostly intact. We probably don't need that much.

Other funding sources? I oppose raise parking rates but for a capital project, it's smart. Price has gone up $2 in 20 years. You got naming rights too

There is a dome rennovation without sales tax. Probably not quote as nice but it would be a big upgrade

This feedback from you will help me sleep better at night. I truly hope that the FARGODOME people can at least do the bare minimum, if not more, without having it go to a vote "just yet." I am worried that if it goes to a vote and fails AGAIN, failure will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The more I think about it, a sales tax seems kind of unnecessary when the surplus is big enough to act as an endowment

Then you got the conference center. Fund it as a standalone project with the hotel tax and no sales tax. They said the lodging tax would generate enough to cover 50 million

Honestly I could care less if it's attached to the dome. It makes sense but West Acres or by the new Fargo Parks Sports Center of of 64th Ave would be good too. One advantage of not using the dome site is NDSU wont allow other events during NDSU events. That's 9 Saturdays blocked off + some smaller events

Like I suggested before, it should a multi purpose "Events Center" with conference space. Model it after the Armory in Minneapolis

It would pass with a huge margin and I don't think it requires a vote since there is no sales tax involved. Just city commission approval.

They better get moving while they have the required 3 votes.

NDSU should really do an RFP (request for proposal) on the land on the SE corner of the dome. Who knows, someone may want to build a hotel with a private conference or events center. Maybe the NDSU foundation or Park District would want to build something

This is more of a rant but I feel like since we completed the IPF, we don't have any sort of master plan for athletics. I know they are close on the softball indoor hitting facility and they are working on small upgrades to Dacotah Field. There may be some smaller things left to complete in the operations building in the IPF too. Then it's all about growing the endowment.

In the next 5-10 years, the Scheels Center will be obselete. One could argue it was obselete when it opened 8 years ago.

St Thomas, Omaha, and USD have (or are getting) new arenas. The Maybe Center at ORU was just upgraded and is really nice. Frost had some nice upgrades. If Augustana ever moves up, they already have a nicer basketball arena in the Pentagon

Scheels Center in the middle of the pack in a mediocre conference

The elements within the SHAC are good (training, locker rooms, academic center, practice courts, ticket office) but the basketball arena itself is mediocre.

No suites. The seats are too small. The retractable seats arent exactly big time and the building feels disconjointed. It's top notch for wrestling and womens hoops but not for our 2nd biggest revenue sport.

If you take NDSU basketball out of the equation, the city needs a modern arena to compete with the Denny and Pentagon in Sioux Falls. Something with suites, permanant seats, multiple levels and more capacity. Something with ice and modern amenities so we can attract more concerts in the 10k and less range and put in bids for national events. If Sioux Falls can host neutral site Big 10 & Big 12 basketball, D2 and NAIA national championships, we can do it. They hosted big time events like No. 1 Gonzaga vs No. 3 Iowa in basketball. I think we could win a bid for the Summit League basketball tournament too or get it to rotate. We're closer to Minneapolis and Grand Forks and a direct flight to Denver. Only 2- 1/2 hours to Brookings.

Attaching it to the dome and using the hotel tax makes sense. Could this be more important than a conference center? Would NDSU be able to raise 20 million to help fund it? What if we can do a dome rennovation, a new basketball arena and get a hotel with conference space?

Here's another idea

We haven't done much to address fan experience. How about a fan athletics village (think Title Town in Green Bay)?

I posted this idea almost 2 years ago http://www.bisonville.com/forum/show...ht=crazy+ideas

[bisonaudit]

The more I think about it, a sales tax seems kind of unnecessary when the surplus is big enough to act as an endowment

Then you got the conference center. Fund it as a standalone project with the hotel tax and no sales tax. They said the lodging tax would generate enough to cover 50 million

Honestly I could care less if it's attached to the dome. It makes sense but West Acres or by the new Fargo Parks Sports Center of of 64th Ave would be good too. One advantage of not using the dome site is NDSU wont allow other events during NDSU events. That's 9 Saturdays blocked off + some smaller events

Like I suggested before, it should a multi purpose "Events Center" with conference space. Model it after the Armory in Minneapolis

It would pass with a huge margin and I don't think it requires a vote since there is no sales tax involved. Just city commission approval.

They better get moving while they have the required 3 votes.

NDSU should really do an RFP (reauest for proposal) on the land on the SE corner of the dome. Who knows, someone may want to build a hotel with a private conference or events center. Maybe the NDSU foundation or Park District would want to build something

This is more of a rant but I feel like since we completed the IPF, we don't have any sort of master plan for athletics. I know they are close on the softball indoor hitting facility and they are working on small upgrades to Dacotah Field. There may be some smaller things left to complete in the operations building in the IPF too. Then it's all about growing the endowment.

In the next 5-10 years, the Scheels Center will be obselete. One could argue it was obselete when it opened 8 years ago.

St Thomas, Omaha, and USD have (or are getting) new arenas. The Maybe Center at ORU was just upgraded and is really nice. Frost had some nice upgrades. If Augustana ever moves up, they already have a nicer basketball arena in the Pentagon

Scheels Center in the middle of the pack in a mediocre conference

The elements within the SHAC are good (training, locker rooms, academic center, practice courts, ticket office) but the basketball arena itself is mediocre.

No suites. The seats are too small. The retractable seats arent exactly big time and the building feels disconjointed. It's top notch for wrestling and womens hoops but not for our 2nd biggest revenue sport.

If you take NDSU basketball out of the equation, the city needs a modern arena to compete with the Denny and Pentagon in Sioux Falls. Something with suites, permanant seats, multiple levels and more capacity. Something with ice and modern amenities so we can attract more concerts in the 10k and less range and put in bids for national events. If Sioux Falls can host neutral site Big 10 & Big 12 basketball, D2 and NAIA national championships, we can do it. They hosted big time events like No. 1 Gonzaga vs No. 3 Iowa in basketball. I think we could win a bid for the Summit League basketball tournament too or get it to rotate. We're closer to Minneapolis and Grand Forks and a direct flight to Denver. Only 2- 1/2 hours to Brookings.

Attaching it to the dome and using the hotel tax makes sense. Could this be more important than a conference center? Would NDSU be able to raise 20 million to help fund it? What if we can do a dome rennovation, a new basketball arena and get a hotel with conference space?

Here's another idea

We haven't done much to address fan experience. How about a fan athletics village (think Title Town in Green Bay)?

I posted this idea almost 2 years ago www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?42425-Another-one-of-my-crazy-ideas&highlight=crazy+ideas

How are they allowed to invest that surplus money? Probably quite restricted I would guess. If that’s the case, Doing OK with interest rates the way they are now but likely very little return for most of the last 20 years. If you can’t invest it like an endowment it’s not an endowment.

[HerdBot]

The dome should be able to fund most everything minus the conference center, without a sales tax or a vote.

How do they pay for it?

Use the surplus fund earnings to pay for a loan or bond.

Earnings on 40-50 million dollar surplus has to be 2-5 million a year.

I don't know much about loans for municipalities, but my amatuer math says that should cover between 50 to 70 million over a 30 year loan, while keeping the principle mostly intact. We probably don't need that much.

Other funding sources? I oppose raise parking rates but for a capital project, it's smart. Price has gone up $2 in 20 years. You got naming rights too

There is a dome rennovation without sales tax. Probably not quote as nice but it would be a big upgrade

How are they allowed to invest that surplus money? Probably quite restricted I would guess. If that’s the case, Doing OK with interest rates the way they are now but likely very little return for most of the last 20 years. If you can’t invest it like an endowment it’s not an endowment.

They paid for the video boards with the surplus fund and made 1 big annual payment starting 8 years ago. The surplus is bigger than it was 8 years ago too. I think 1 or 2 payments remain. It can be done but I agree it's trickier and more complex

Surplus varies based on the market because they invest it. I was down in 2022 but was up 18% in 2023. Bank of ND may offer some low interest loans too

[AlumniGreen]

The more I think about it, a sales tax seems kind of unnecessary when the surplus is big enough to act as an endowment

Then you got the conference center. Fund it as a standalone project with the hotel tax and no sales tax. They said the lodging tax would generate enough to cover 50 million

Honestly I could care less if it's attached to the dome. It makes sense but West Acres or by the new Fargo Parks Sports Center of of 64th Ave would be good too. One advantage of not using the dome site is NDSU wont allow other events during NDSU events. That's 9 Saturdays blocked off + some smaller events

Like I suggested before, it should a multi purpose "Events Center" with conference space. Model it after the Armory in Minneapolis

It would pass with a huge margin and I don't think it requires a vote since there is no sales tax involved. Just city commission approval.

They better get moving while they have the required 3 votes.

NDSU should really do an RFP (request for proposal) on the land on the SE corner of the dome. Who knows, someone may want to build a hotel with a private conference or events center. Maybe the NDSU foundation or Park District would want to build something

This is more of a rant but I feel like since we completed the IPF, we don't have any sort of master plan for athletics. I know they are close on the softball indoor hitting facility and they are working on small upgrades to Dacotah Field. There may be some smaller things left to complete in the operations building in the IPF too. Then it's all about growing the endowment.

In the next 5-10 years, the Scheels Center will be obselete. One could argue it was obselete when it opened 8 years ago.

St Thomas, Omaha, and USD have (or are getting) new arenas. The Maybe Center at ORU was just upgraded and is really nice. Frost had some nice upgrades. If Augustana ever moves up, they already have a nicer basketball arena in the Pentagon

Scheels Center in the middle of the pack in a mediocre conference

The elements within the SHAC are good (training, locker rooms, academic center, practice courts, ticket office) but the basketball arena itself is mediocre.

No suites. The seats are too small. The retractable seats arent exactly big time and the building feels disconjointed. It's top notch for wrestling and womens hoops but not for our 2nd biggest revenue sport.

If you take NDSU basketball out of the equation, the city needs a modern arena to compete with the Denny and Pentagon in Sioux Falls. Something with suites, permanant seats, multiple levels and more capacity. Something with ice and modern amenities so we can attract more concerts in the 10k and less range and put in bids for national events. If Sioux Falls can host neutral site Big 10 & Big 12 basketball, D2 and NAIA national championships, we can do it. They hosted big time events like No. 1 Gonzaga vs No. 3 Iowa in basketball. I think we could win a bid for the Summit League basketball tournament too or get it to rotate. We're closer to Minneapolis and Grand Forks and a direct flight to Denver. Only 2- 1/2 hours to Brookings.

Attaching it to the dome and using the hotel tax makes sense. Could this be more important than a conference center? Would NDSU be able to raise 20 million to help fund it? What if we can do a dome rennovation, a new basketball arena and get a hotel with conference space?

Here's another idea

We haven't done much to address fan experience. How about a fan athletics village (think Title Town in Green Bay)?

I posted this idea almost 2 years ago http://www.bisonville.com/forum/show...ht=crazy+ideas

Have you ever thought yourself of running for City Commission? or Planning Commission? I hope you can see to it to convey your great ideas to Rob S., the Reimagined Group as well as the Mayor and other entities. Actually a letter (snail) is the best way. I just LOVE your ideas. Some of these ideas are a little over my head, meaning I do not understand some of the technical and financial aspects. I am STILL working on my ideas letter to Rob, the Reimagined Group, Deb M. and Doug R., Mayor and maybe Charlie Johnson.

We are penny-wise and pound foolish if we don't take the bull by the horns on the FARGODOME. You have to spend money to make money. In the weeks leading up to the December 5th vote, I was on a local chat room and man, some people don't want to spend a damn nickel. I don't know if the City is planning another vote (if so, it MUST be minus the convention center, of course), but one thing they really, really need to do is to point out to ALL Fargoans how the DOME economic engine WILL benefit all Fargoans. Some of the naysayers said things like "well, I am not seeing any benefit from the FARGODOME" and so forth. I never go there". A guy who knew his stuff piped in and said (to paraphrase and I may be inaccurate) something about "it helps with infrastructure and other city things." But my point is the FARGODOME Committee (if it comes to a city-wide vote again) HAS to find ways to convey to all Fargoans that the FARGODOME actually does help every single person to a degree, and then enumerate what they are, in big and small ways. I think some of the naysayers were taking things literally, i.e., they had to get a job at the DOME or they had to get a check or something. LOL

I like the idea of a fan village, of a hotel nearby, a fabulous convention center and so forth. Once Sioux Falls and other regional cities start getting the convention centers more and more frequently, they will become locked in as the go-to convention center, and convention organizers may not even bother with asking Fargo.

[southcliffbison]

Have you ever thought yourself of running for City Commission? or Planning Commission? I hope you can see to it to convey your great ideas to Rob S., the Reimagined Group as well as the Mayor and other entities. Actually a letter (snail) is the best way. I just LOVE your ideas. Some of these ideas are a little over my head, meaning I do not understand some of the technical and financial aspects. I am STILL working on my ideas letter to Rob, the Reimagined Group, Deb M. and Doug R., Mayor and maybe Charlie Johnson.

We are penny-wise and pound foolish if we don't take the bull by the horns on the FARGODOME. You have to spend money to make money. In the weeks leading up to the December 5th vote, I was on a local chat room and man, some people don't want to spend a damn nickel. I don't know if the City is planning another vote (if so, it MUST be minus the convention center, of course), but one thing they really, really need to do is to point out to ALL Fargoans how the DOME economic engine WILL benefit all Fargoans. Some of the naysayers said things like "well, I am not seeing any benefit from the FARGODOME" and so forth. I never go there". A guy who knew his stuff piped in and said (to paraphrase and I may be inaccurate) something about "it helps with infrastructure and other city things." But my point is the FARGODOME Committee (if it comes to a city-wide vote again) HAS to find ways to convey to all Fargoans that the FARGODOME actually does help every single person to a degree, and then enumerate what they are, in big and small ways. I think some of the naysayers were taking things literally, i.e., they had to get a job at the DOME or they had to get a check or something. LOL



I like the idea of a fan village, of a hotel nearby, a fabulous convention center and so forth. Once Sioux Falls and other regional cities start getting the convention centers more and more frequently, they will become locked in as the go-to convention center, and convention organizers may not even bother with asking Fargo.

If Herdbot decides to run for the Fargo City Commission, I'll vote for him.....oh, wait.......I'm not a legal resident of Fargo or North Dakota anymore...........oh, wait again.............in this country that doesn't make a fucking difference anymore.

[HerdBot]

Hotel room sales top $150 million in F-M metro area in 2023, shattering previous record

According to the article...
"Sports bring in more than $40.5 million in direct visitor spending, according to the Fargo Moorhead Convention and Visitors Bureau"

https://www.inforum.com/business/hot...revious-record

With revenue like that, they should be able to fund an addition to the dome

Instead of a Fargodome upgrade with a sales tax, build a new duel concert hall / conference center (Armory in Minneapolis inspired) attached to the dome paid with a new hotel / lodging tax. The connecting space can share restrooms with the Fargodome.

Have the dome finance upgrades with the earnings on a 45 million dollar surplus fund

NDSU can sell or lease the land on the SE corner of University to a hotel and use the funds for an athletics project

[HerdBot]

Watched the Fargodome Authority meeting and they are doing a phone survey on the dome. What does it need? Why did you vote yes or no? What would you like to see?