Fargodome officially getting new turf

[MankatoBison]

Someone suggested checkerboard enzones....I think they should do that but with all of the boxes in the same color. That way you couldn't see the checkboard, but you'd know it was there.

Side note, I actually love SDSU's chekcerboard endzone idea- EXCEEEEEPT that it doesnt fill the entire endzone and it looks absolutely stupid lol.. just fill the whole damn endzone with checkerboard.

Is there some kind of rule against alternating colors along the goal line or something? I cannot fathom how stupid you would have to be to do this on purpose
dana-j-dykhouse-stadium.jpg

[Hammerhead]

The checkerboard would look better if it was just 6" - 12" from the white lines.

Side note, I actually love SDSU's chekcerboard endzone idea- EXCEEEEEPT that it doesnt fill the entire endzone and it looks absolutely stupid lol.. just fill the whole damn endzone with checkerboard.

Is there some kind of rule against alternating colors along the goal line or something? I cannot fathom how stupid you would have to be to do this on purpose
dana-j-dykhouse-stadium.jpg

[southcliffbison]

The spot itself is not precise to the MM and you are bringing in a chain that was clipped by someone 2-4 yards from the sideline based on a very inexact placement of the back stake. The wing knows which line on the field they have to reach so he makes a determination based on what he sees if the ball reached that line on the field similar to if it was the goal line.

Using the lines on the field are much more accurate than the chain and the clip. What if the stake or clip is 4-6 inches off and gives the offense a first down when they are short or shows them short when they actually reached it

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Even in high school football, most chain crews do an excellent job of establishing the line to gain. Not to belabor this discussion.......it's been my experience as a head linesman that the stake is placed down at/on the sideline and yard line intersection, the clip is then attached a few yards up the chain at the edge (front or back) of the yard line. After this task is completed, then they move back 3 to 4 yards from the feld of play. If whoever places the clip on the chain 4 to 6 inches from where it should be placed......well, that person needs to be replaced. It's not that hard to do it right. Thanks for your input.

[bisonaudit]

Even in high school football, most chain crews do an excellent job of establishing the line to gain. Not to belabor this discussion.......it's been my experience as a head linesman that the stake is placed down at/on the sideline and yard line intersection, the clip is then attached a few yards up the chain at the edge (front or back) of the yard line. After this task is completed, then they move back 3 to 4 yards from the feld of play. If whoever places the clip on the chain 4 to 6 inches from where it should be placed......well, that person needs to be replaced. It's not that hard to do it right. Thanks for your input.

The fact that the NFL still uses this archaic tech to measure first downs is silly international soccer level thinking. The game isn’t the same at every level. It’s not a bad solution, it works fine most of the time but for a multibillion dollar enterprise you’d think a better solution could be implemented.

[Hammersmith]

The fact that the NFL still uses this archaic tech to measure first downs is silly international soccer level thinking. The game isn’t the same at every level. It’s not a bad solution, it works fine most of the time but for a multibillion dollar enterprise you’d think a better solution could be implemented.

[NDSU92]

Side note, I actually love SDSU's chekcerboard endzone idea- EXCEEEEEPT that it doesnt fill the entire endzone and it looks absolutely stupid lol.. just fill the whole damn endzone with checkerboard.

Is there some kind of rule against alternating colors along the goal line or something? I cannot fathom how stupid you would have to be to do this on purpose
dana-j-dykhouse-stadium.jpg

It's a branding thing SDSU has been working on for a while now.

SDSU's field almost has a checkerboard endzone.
SDSU's program almost compares to NDSU.
SDSU's coaches almost don't drive drunk.

[IndyBison]

Side note, I actually love SDSU's chekcerboard endzone idea- EXCEEEEEPT that it doesnt fill the entire endzone and it looks absolutely stupid lol.. just fill the whole damn endzone with checkerboard.

Is there some kind of rule against alternating colors along the goal line or something? I cannot fathom how stupid you would have to be to do this on purpose
dana-j-dykhouse-stadium.jpg

Here are the specific rules related what you can do in the end zone:

d. White field markings or contrasting decorative markings (e.g., team names)
are permissible in the end zones but shall not be closer than four feet to any
line.
e. Contrasting coloring in the end zones may abut any line.

If I'm reading this right I think the should be able to go to the goal lines with the checkerboard if they wanted. If they applied item (d) above does it appear they are 4 feet away? Blue and yellow are probably contrasting to white. We see soccer lines on a lot of our fields and the yellow goal line for soccer is often touching the white end end line for football so we have to make sure the soccer line is in or out.

[IndyBison]

Even in high school football, most chain crews do an excellent job of establishing the line to gain. Not to belabor this discussion.......it's been my experience as a head linesman that the stake is placed down at/on the sideline and yard line intersection, the clip is then attached a few yards up the chain at the edge (front or back) of the yard line. After this task is completed, then they move back 3 to 4 yards from the feld of play. If whoever places the clip on the chain 4 to 6 inches from where it should be placed......well, that person needs to be replaced. It's not that hard to do it right. Thanks for your input.

You must go really slow if the line to gain equipment will be placed on the sideline correctly and then the clip is applied and then the chains moved back. Because all of that would have to be done before the umpire can step away for the ready for play. Otherwise the H would start the play on the field or be stuck behind the back stake. He starts in the white. Generally for us the box will be there before the ready for play, but the chains are often moving at that point. There may be times the clip isn't even added until the ball is snapped. This is another benefit of using the back of a line. If the box gets there first he can set up on the A43 (just to pick a line at random). Even if the ball is snapped before the chain is ready they'll know they should be lined up on the back of the A43 even if the ball has been snapped. The chains essentially just become visual reminders of which line you have to get to for a first down. If a series can't start on a line for some reason they do become more important.

I was on the clip guy for a state championship game a couple years ago. We had a series start on a big line (let's say B45 for explanation purposes). This means I put the clip on the back of the B40 once the chains are set. We are in the 4th quarter of a 1 or 2 score game and the team trailing has the ball. They go for it on 4th down and the wing rules the runner down on the B35. From my perspective they have a first down using the lines on the field. For some reason the R decides to measure. When they take the chains out and stretch them the front stake is about 8 inches BEYOND the B35 and awarded a new series to the defensive team. There is no way that should have happened. I don't know if the back stake was set up wrong. I don't know if my clip was off. I don't know if the HL put the clip down on the front of the B40 rather than the back. I don't know if my clip was a little off. It's likely a combination of those. But something failed with the set up of the clip and chains and it had a huge impact on the game at that point. They started with the nose of the ball on the B45 so reaching the B35 should have resulted in a first down.

Another example I'll give is from a D3 game I had a couple years ago. End of game, home team is down by a score and on defense. Offense is trying to run out the clock. They had to reach the B40 to get a first down. On 4th down they reached the B40 so the referee signaled first down and we moved the chains. The home coach is going ballistic. We tried to explain they clearly reached the LTG. The nose of the ball was on the front of the B40. He was saying something about being behind the chain. We wound the clock and the game ended (may have taken a knee or two I don't remember). When we watched the film we realize the coach had some validity in his complaint. The front stake was 8 inches beyond the front of the B40 so a foot beyond the actual line to gain. We went back and watched the series to see how it happened. On the first down play the chains were set properly and you could clearly see the front stake on the back of the B40. So how did they end up a foot further ahead? On 2nd down there was long gain by the offense which would have been a first down. The chain crew didn't realize there was a flag and didn't wait for the head linesman to move them but they moved anyway. The foul was on the offense so the chains had to go back and reset. When they did you can see the front stake is now a little beyond the front of the B40. They were either careless when they reset the chains with the clip or the clip guy did not have good eyes in lining it up. On 3rd down there was a run that went to the visitor sideline and as good chain crews will do they dropped the chains and got away. When they reset the chains you can now see the front stake is about 8 inches beyond the line to gain. The head linesman isn't babysitting them to the point of confirming they get set up exactly right. They have a job to do and should be able to do it well. They also realize the line to gain stake should be on the back of the B40 so that guy should notice he's a foot off. But they are usually baseball or basketball players doing work study or getting paid in hot dogs and M&Ms. But not doing their job made us look bad because the coach had a legitimate complaint even though he was still wrong.

Use the lines on the field whenever you can the chains have too much variability that can get you in trouble like these two examples prove.

The fact that the NFL still uses this archaic tech to measure first downs is silly international soccer level thinking. The game isn’t the same at every level. It’s not a bad solution, it works fine most of the time but for a multibillion dollar enterprise you’d think a better solution could be implemented.

The beauty of football is the inexact science of many aspects of the game. The ball bounces funny. Spots are not exact science even with 100 cameras all over the field. Catchno catch has subjective judgements involved. Pass/fumble on a hit on the QB is not an absolute. Unlike tennis or soccer where in bounds and out of bounds are determined by the ball in relation to a boundary line, football involves both the location of the ball and an element of a runner down or out of bounds. Any advance technology would have to involve sensors on the entire surface of the ball, on both the plane of the sideline and everywhere on the ground from the sideline to at least 6-8 feet beyond the sideline, and on every part of the player except their hand, wrist and foot. And on the player it would have to be on every player whether or not they are in the game because they could end up in the game. You may not need it for every yard line because you probably establish something based on where the new series starts. But it would have to extend from sideline to sideline and probably beyond. Is all of that really worth it for something that comes up as a critical point maybe aa couple times each game?

Or do we use the elements already on the field rely on the trained judgement of a qualified official to make the unbiased judgement of whether the ball has reached the pointed line on the field? And you have replay as a back up in case the official is blocked or significantly missed the location of the ball when a body part touched the ground or OOB. The technology would be awesome. But is it worth it especially for anyone outside of major P5 programs?

[southcliffbison]

You must go really slow if the line to gain equipment will be placed on the sideline correctly and then the clip is applied and then the chains moved back. Because all of that would have to be done before the umpire can step away for the ready for play. Otherwise the H would start the play on the field or be stuck behind the back stake. He starts in the white. Generally for us the box will be there before the ready for play, but the chains are often moving at that point. There may be times the clip isn't even added until the ball is snapped. This is another benefit of using the back of a line. If the box gets there first he can set up on the A43 (just to pick a line at random). Even if the ball is snapped before the chain is ready they'll know they should be lined up on the back of the A43 even if the ball has been snapped. The chains essentially just become visual reminders of which line you have to get to for a first down. If a series can't start on a line for some reason they do become more important.

I was on the clip guy for a state championship game a couple years ago. We had a series start on a big line (let's say B45 for explanation purposes). This means I put the clip on the back of the B40 once the chains are set. We are in the 4th quarter of a 1 or 2 score game and the team trailing has the ball. They go for it on 4th down and the wing rules the runner down on the B35. From my perspective they have a first down using the lines on the field. For some reason the R decides to measure. When they take the chains out and stretch them the front stake is about 8 inches BEYOND the B35 and awarded a new series to the defensive team. There is no way that should have happened. I don't know if the back stake was set up wrong. I don't know if my clip was off. I don't know if the HL put the clip down on the front of the B40 rather than the back. I don't know if my clip was a little off. It's likely a combination of those. But something failed with the set up of the clip and chains and it had a huge impact on the game at that point. They started with the nose of the ball on the B45 so reaching the B35 should have resulted in a first down.

Another example I'll give is from a D3 game I had a couple years ago. End of game, home team is down by a score and on defense. Offense is trying to run out the clock. They had to reach the B40 to get a first down. On 4th down they reached the B40 so the referee signaled first down and we moved the chains. The home coach is going ballistic. We tried to explain they clearly reached the LTG. The nose of the ball was on the front of the B40. He was saying something about being behind the chain. We wound the clock and the game ended (may have taken a knee or two I don't remember). When we watched the film we realize the coach had some validity in his complaint. The front stake was 8 inches beyond the front of the B40 so a foot beyond the actual line to gain. We went back and watched the series to see how it happened. On the first down play the chains were set properly and you could clearly see the front stake on the back of the B40. So how did they end up a foot further ahead? On 2nd down there was long gain by the offense which would have been a first down. The chain crew didn't realize there was a flag and didn't wait for the head linesman to move them but they moved anyway. The foul was on the offense so the chains had to go back and reset. When they did you can see the front stake is now a little beyond the front of the B40. They were either careless when they reset the chains with the clip or the clip guy did not have good eyes in lining it up. On 3rd down there was a run that went to the visitor sideline and as good chain crews will do they dropped the chains and got away. When they reset the chains you can now see the front stake is about 8 inches beyond the line to gain. The head linesman isn't babysitting them to the point of confirming they get set up exactly right. They have a job to do and should be able to do it well. They also realize the line to gain stake should be on the back of the B40 so that guy should notice he's a foot off. But they are usually baseball or basketball players doing work study or getting paid in hot dogs and M&Ms. But not doing their job made us look bad because the coach had a legitimate complaint even though he was still wrong.

Use the lines on the field whenever you can the chains have too much variability that can get you in trouble like these two examples prove.

Thank you, Indy; very interesting read. Again, thanks for your input.

[IndyBison]

Thank you, Indy; very interesting read. Again, thanks for your input.

Probably too wordy and most people skip it when they see how long it is. I'm fine if they skip it or dismiss it. But those who read it will hopefully take something away from it. It may seem like the officials who work the games just show up, make some calls and go home, but there is so much more to it. Especially at the level where the Bison play. Most college officials especially treat this as an avocation rather than a hobby and they have more passion for doing this well than their full paying job.

I was at a college study group meeting this week where we spent an hour with about 30 officials reviewing a variety of plays from D3 games. There were some great discussions about forward progress on a potential fumble, false start on a fake handoff before the ball was snapped (that was strange!), and legally consuming time at the end of a game by running around before taking a knee. The discussion was lead by a D1 referee many of you would recognize. He didn't have to spend his evening doing that but he did because he wants officials at all levels to be the best they can be. Then we went to the bar and watched a MACtion game making fun of our friends who were working the game. That was the fun part.