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Thread: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKBison View Post
    This is a "Fargo First" mentality, not an NDSU first one.
    Almost every NFL and professional sports stadium in our country has the same mentality buddy. Heck TCF Bank stadium was 48% paid by the tax payers
    .


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  2. #152
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    Default Re: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

    Quote Originally Posted by HerdBot View Post
    Sept 2009 is 12 years ago and it's a Big Ten stadium with capacity of 51,000. We don't need a Big Ten caliber 51,000 seat stadium

    The UAB stadium was opened in 2021 and it cost 175 million. 45,000 downtown Birmingham. It's part funded by car rental taxes and the University. It's owned and operated by the Birmingham Civic Center Authority

    Dykehouse was 65 million.

    Getting cheap land is key. The Fargodome got their land for a buck a year

    What we need is a 30 to 35000 seat indoor arena with modern amenities like suits. A private public partnership. With donated land we could do it for 300 million. Wouldn't be super fancy though
    It opened in 2009. They didn't build it in 2009 lol. So yes, it was 300 mil 15 years ago. But yeah, no need for 50K seats.
    College of Business Alumnus

  3. #153
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    Default Re: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

    Quote Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness View Post
    It opened in 2009. They didn't build it in 2009 lol. So yes, it was 300 mil 15 years ago. But yeah, no need for 50K seats.
    It was originally 288 million after the design stage but overruns brought it to 296 million. Then the Vikings did 7 million in upgrades for the 2 years they spent there. Also a nice chunk of the cost was in land acquisition. (20 million land and 30 million for road realignment and District development)

    That's for a nice Big Ten stadium. Generally it's considered the 6th or 7th best stadium in a 14 team Big Ten Conference. We could never afford all the fancy pants upgrades like being virtually 100% brick. Our future stadium is more likely to resemble a very large tin shed up north
    .


    17X National Champions: 65, 68, 69, 83, 85, 86, 88, 90, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21

    Join the Green and the Gold Collective to take Bison football to the next level. Starts at $10 a month

    The Green and The Gold Collective is excited to announce our #DriveToFive membership campaign. The goal of this campaign is to get to 500 monthly members. Reaching this goal will help us provide financial support to NDSU student athletes, including every returning member of the football team that saw action on the field last year!

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  4. #154
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    Default Re: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

    I'm counting on a huge advancement in building materials and then we'll just have nanobots build a 30,000 seat stadium out by processing CO2 sucked out of the air (and possibly slow moving pedestrians and squirrels.)

    The stadium's solar roof will also generate enough electricity to power all of Fargo.

  5. #155
    kab1one is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

    Quote Originally Posted by HerdBot View Post
    Almost every NFL and professional sports stadium in our country has the same mentality buddy. Heck TCF Bank stadium was 48% paid by the tax payers
    Fargo and Cass County doesn't realize how hand cuff they are for next 50 years due to the diversion.

    The original plan was for $2 billion. Basically a 1/3 from the state, 1/3 from the feds, 1/3 from the sales tax which was slammed through the taxpayers (that is another discussion).

    Today, the diversion is $4 billion (being conservative), state and federal money hasn't changed. State may have even dropped.

    The sales to fund the project originally included a growth in Fargo/Cass County sales tax of 3% a year to infinity and beyond. Since the city has started collecting sales tax, there has not been a 3% income year to year. this was pre covid. Sales taxes were down due to agriculture and oil (Fargo had more oil activity than one might expect).

    Dirty little secret number 1. To get the Private (property owner) public (government) partnership in place to fund the sales tax component. The city father pledge special assessments to every property in the diversion district. So when, no if, but when sales tax collections don't meet the debt payment. We all get a new diversion special assessment.

    The other dirty little secret. Bonding. The projections used 1-2% for bonds. At some point over the next 75 years of repayment, interest rates will rise and carry costs is going to increase. Maybe 30 years down the road.

    So because of this ticking time bomb I don't see how the city of Fargo, West Fargo or the county of Cass can contribute anything to a project anywhere. Except for water from out west that will insure continue growth to fund the existing ponzi scheme of the diversion.

  6. #156
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    OrygunBison is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

    Quote Originally Posted by HerdBot View Post
    It was originally 288 million after the design stage but overruns brought it to 296 million. Then the Vikings did 7 million in upgrades for the 2 years they spent there. Also a nice chunk of the cost was in land acquisition. (20 million land and 30 million for road realignment and District development)

    That's for a nice Big Ten stadium. Generally it's considered the 6th or 7th best stadium in a 14 team Big Ten Conference. We could never afford all the fancy pants upgrades like being virtually 100% brick. Our future stadium is more likely to resemble a very large tin shed up north
    I can see that you're digging deep on this comparison. Unfortunately, it is completely irrelevant unless you were to take the plans and have them bid in October 2021 with an estimated construction start around Spring 2023. Even then, that would not account for the further escalation that will come between now and the time that it takes to design the structure, approve the structure, and capitalize the project. It'll probably take 5 years to get that all together. I'm an architect that deals with construction cost every single day in one way or another. Every contractor I know, including the big guys, are on their heels and have little confidence in where construction costs are going. Also, supply chains are broken all over the industry and while that should improve, it is hard to predict with any certainty where the supply chains continue to be a problem in the 10-year horizon...which will likely be plenty, all things considered.

    My educated guess is that this would be a $300-320M outdoor facility for 30,000 seats and middle of the road amenities. If it absolutely MUST be indoors, it'll add $150M or so. It isn't just putting the roof on, which would certainly be expensive. It's everything else needed to create a comfortable, safe building.
    Insert something clever here...

  7. #157
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    Default Re: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

    Quote Originally Posted by kab1one View Post
    Fargo and Cass County doesn't realize how hand cuff they are for next 50 years due to the diversion.

    The original plan was for $2 billion. Basically a 1/3 from the state, 1/3 from the feds, 1/3 from the sales tax which was slammed through the taxpayers (that is another discussion).

    Today, the diversion is $4 billion (being conservative), state and federal money hasn't changed. State may have even dropped.

    The sales to fund the project originally included a growth in Fargo/Cass County sales tax of 3% a year to infinity and beyond. Since the city has started collecting sales tax, there has not been a 3% income year to year. this was pre covid. Sales taxes were down due to agriculture and oil (Fargo had more oil activity than one might expect).

    Dirty little secret number 1. To get the Private (property owner) public (government) partnership in place to fund the sales tax component. The city father pledge special assessments to every property in the diversion district. So when, no if, but when sales tax collections don't meet the debt payment. We all get a new diversion special assessment.

    The other dirty little secret. Bonding. The projections used 1-2% for bonds. At some point over the next 75 years of repayment, interest rates will rise and carry costs is going to increase. Maybe 30 years down the road.

    So because of this ticking time bomb I don't see how the city of Fargo, West Fargo or the county of Cass can contribute anything to a project anywhere. Except for water from out west that will insure continue growth to fund the existing ponzi scheme of the diversion.
    Didn't they con everyone into voting for the special assessment? They said "it would never be assessed, it was just to get lower bond rates." And people fell for it.

  8. #158
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    Default Re: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

    An indoor stadium/event center seems like a lot hoops to jump through and a giant headache to get the city on board for NDSU. Maybe things change 20 years from now, but outdoor 30K stadium on NDSUs dime seems in our best interest. Probably wont be a thing for another 2 decades.

  9. #159
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    Default Re: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKBison View Post
    I hate the UND game, it's either win big or dismantle the program. I much prefer the hate of the UNI game and the brotherly love of the SDSU game. With that said, I need a break from the UN_ talk. *Assuming we move to FBS, get in a great conference, win the lottery etc etc, what is the ideal size stadium for NDSU?

    My thoughts, since it needs to be an indoor stadium and a build once cry once scenario, 30k with a built in 5000-8000 expansion plan is probably about right. It needs to be larger for a couple reasons. The first is we need to be able to sell as many season tickets as possible. That and suites, clubs, etc are your AD funding models. The second is to keep ticket prices down. Having GA cheap seats where a family can attend for $100 is crucial. Boise does a great job of putting together these kind of packages. Those kids are your future students, alumni and donors and t shirt fans. Lastly, to bring in top tier G5 and low end P5 teams OOC, you need seating. Those teams don't travel to 19k stadiums and since those games are big ticket items, you need to be able take advantage of it. 20k + season tickets is easily doable. Since we count tickets sold that gives you very solid "attendance" throughout the year.

    Thoughts?

    Ok I feel better, now back to trashing the coaching staff.
    I'd say 35K with room for expansion.

    If you wore the uniform...you're a champion.

  10. #160
    oldmantutters is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Off topic: Ideal size of a new NDSU football stadium?

    Let's face it, we are stuck with the fabulous Fargodome for a long time to come. And while I think it's a boring building, I'm a hell of a lot more disappointed in the SHAC. I think football is diminishing returns in FCS or FBS. Basketball is where progress could be made, but now we will be locked into the SHAC for the next 30 years. *sigh*

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