UND Post Game Thoughts & Discussion

[Gully]

Jesus, some of you talk out of both sides of your mouth. Deception / misdirection is a fundamental part of the game. That's why we have play action, middle screens, fake field goals or punts, reverses, and the statue of liberty. Hell, my favorite trick play of all time was the one where Ryan Smith hid behind the left guard, took a concealed handoff, slipped out and scored.

The whole "manly men only play manly football by lining up like men and doing manly things" schtick is silly. Everyone seeks to find their advantage and to employ it. Trick plays tend to take advantage of the other team's lack of discipline.

Plays like the QB walking to the coach are actually illegal, as are anything that simulates a team actually not engaged. Indy wrote something on the topic a few years ago. I wonder what his thoughts are on the UND play.

Not that it matters....but didn't he hide behind the right guard? I say that because he ran to the left.

[Gully]

Orygun is right. If the QB is walking toward the sideline taking to the coach the snap is not imminent. If he's walking behind the LOS and not saying anything that would make the defense believe there is an issue it's legal. It's hard to pull off and I've only seen it once (failed miserably).

I haven't seen the UND play so i can't speak to potential false start or illegal shift.

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How does it work if it's not clear who the QB is? For instance, a team is running some sort of wildcat and has a bunch of RBs walking around in the backfield looking confused and then suddenly there is a snap to surprise the defense? Haven't seen it....just wondering.

[scottietohottie]

Didn't they try a fake too and the Bison sniffed it out? That was actually coaching doing its job!

[Bisonator98]

How does it work if it's not clear who the QB is? For instance, a team is running some sort of wildcat and has a bunch of RBs walking around in the backfield looking confused and then suddenly there is a snap to surprise the defense? Haven't seen it....just wondering.

Can't have 2 in motion at the snap

[NDSUBowler]

These recap videos are awesome, and really well done. Love Entz’s quote at the end!! Ha!

https://youtu.be/2AxgDAs87KI

This was a fun video

Hey bud, you get lost trying to find the hockey game back in 2010?

[IndyBison]

How does it work if it's not clear who the QB is? For instance, a team is running some sort of wildcat and has a bunch of RBs walking around in the backfield looking confused and then suddenly there is a snap to surprise the defense? Haven't seen it....just wondering.

Technically there is no designation for a QB in the rule book. There are linemen and backs. The linemen on the end are also considered ends and determine pass eligibility. One player is allowed to be in no-man's land (not a back or a lineman) and that is someone under center to receive a hand to hand snap. The player in this position is considered to be a back for pass eligibility purposes. Roughing protection is granted to the player who receives the snap so a back who receives a handoff or a backward pass is not awarded the same protection as the back who received the snap.

Since there is no QB defined in the rules, the player we all see as the QB is just a back in motion parallel to the LOS. As long as he's not indicating there is an issue (i.e. "wrong ball" or "what's the play?" to the coaches) that's all you have. He can even be giving instructions to his linemen like an audible because there is nothing preventing any back from doing that. We are just used to seeing the "QB" do it.

As Bisonater98 stated you also can't have more than 1 back moving at the snap. If more than 1 move before the snap, they all have to get set for 1 second before the snap. Once they are all set, 1 back may go in motion. Otherwise you have an illegal shift. For example, a slot or wing back goes in motion and a lineman shifts from a 2-point stance to a 3-point stance you have a foul if the motion many doesn't stop for 1 second before the snap.

[td577]

If indy says everyone was set on the trick play, I'm good with that. That play exposed a huge tell in the Bison defense. I'm not sure I would have used that moment to use it. Knowing how many times the Bison and the bunnies have met in the playoffs, if you think your program is there, save that for a game that really matters. I don't think you can do that play again.

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[IndyBison]

If indy says everyone was set on the trick play, I'm good with that. That play exposed a huge tell in the Bison defense. I'm not sure I would have used that moment to use it. Knowing how many times the Bison and the bunnies have met in the playoffs, if you think your program is there, save that for a game that really matters. I don't think you can do that play again.

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They could have got in trouble here also if the lineman stood up in a very rapid motion emulating the start of a snap (false start) or they turned to face the sideline (illegal formation). A lineman must be positioned with his shoulders roughly parallel to the line of scrimmage at the snap. This is why you can't have a snapper sideways. There is no requirement the snap has to go between his legs, but he can't be sideways. Occasionally you'll see a swinging gate or pole cat formation on a try and the snapper will snap it directly to a back behind the 6 lineman to his side. That is legal as long as it's one fluid motion and the ball immediately leaves his hands.

Very well coached and executed trick play.

[ndsubison1]

This was a fun video

Hey bud, you get lost trying to find the hockey game back in 2010?

Saw that guy at Judys in 2011.

[OrygunBison]

Not that it matters....but didn't he hide behind the right guard? I say that because he ran to the left.

I actually don't think so but admittedly, it was a long time ago and my memory is a little fuzzy. What I do remember was some crazy David Copperfield shit going on between Brock and Ryan as he turned and slipped him the ball. I watched the replay a dozen of times when I re-watched the game and I never figured out how the handoff happened without showing it.