2021-2022 Season

[PaBizon]

Of the 20 Finalists 11 are from the Big 10. Of the 80 All Americans 37 are from the Big 10. Don’t know how anyone can say Wild Cards from the Big 10 are a joke.

[Portlandbison]

Of the 20 Finalists 11 are from the Big 10. Of the 80 All Americans 37 are from the Big 10. Don’t know how anyone can say Wild Cards from the Big 10 are a joke.

Agree to a point but looking at tournament results to prove tournament wild cards were correct is flawed. We saw from Franek to become an all american it takes some luck.

Only an idiot would ever argue the big 10 isn't the best conference. That doesn't necessarily mean just because you are a starter in the big 10 means you are automatically one of the top 33 wrestlers in the country, but it doesn't mean you aren't either. If the committee makes their decisions based on a select criteria and stick to that I wouldn't have a problem but I'm not so sure they do. Especially in seeding which I had more of an issue than their wild card selections.

Let's take a look at 184. Big 10 got 13 wrestlers to Detroit, they have 3 all americans. Big 12 got 2 all americans out of 6 qualifiers. That doesn't mean the big 12 deserved more just based on the results of the tournament but rather the tournament played out well for them.

[Portlandbison]

NDSU finishes with 7.5 team points.

SDSU finished with 3.5, Northern colorado 3.5, and air force ended with 5. I thought the Bison could be in the top 25, but not too disappointed in the team results.

[Big Bird]

Agree to a point but looking at tournament results to prove tournament wild cards were correct is flawed. We saw from Franek to become an all american it takes some luck.

Only an idiot would ever argue the big 10 isn't the best conference. That doesn't necessarily mean just because you are a starter in the big 10 means you are automatically one of the top 33 wrestlers in the country, but it doesn't mean you aren't either. If the committee makes their decisions based on a select criteria and stick to that I wouldn't have a problem but I'm not so sure they do. Especially in seeding which I had more of an issue than their wild card selections.

Let's take a look at 184. Big 10 got 13 wrestlers to Detroit, they have 3 all americans. Big 12 got 2 all americans out of 6 qualifiers. That doesn't mean the big 12 deserved more just based on the results of the tournament but rather the tournament played out well for them.

You're right. Some guys just have better paths than others, it's just how it turns out. Jared has had an incredibly difficult route to AA each of the last two years. NDSU benefited from this in 2015 when Kurtis Julson AAd and the highest seeded guy he beat was the 10 seed.

Also Pa, I never said the Wild Cards from the B1G were a joke. I pointed to two specific instances where I disagreed with individual selections of B1G guys. Burwick went 0-2 and wasn't really competitive in either match. Lyon won 4 matches and had a very good tournament. That being said, he still got 13th place (!!!) in his conference tournament and lost to the guy who wound up as the #33 seed at NCAAs. I also pointed out it was a joke the B12 got one with Gordon at HWT after going 0-2 at B12s and being 10-15.

The B1G is clearly the best conference, but I hate the idea of a conference getting all 14 guys in at a weight. I also don't like that a guy who won 3 matches against guys who secured AQs for their conference and placed one spot out of AQ status didn't get in while a guy who took 10th in conference, while beating nobody who earned their conference got an AQ. I want conference tournaments to matter and in these two instances, the wildcard selections told me that just being in the B1G was more important than performing solidly at your conference tourney.

Also, this is definitely my last post about wildcards, because I find this whole discussion/argument dumb at this point.

[PaBizon]

Wild Card system is broke. NDSU got the right amount of wildcards, but overall it was bad, again.

133 is a joke with Burwick (ND kid) getting in over Tagg and Brown.

All American Travis Wittlake doesn't get in at 165 for Oklahoma State. Nor does Tanner Cook of SDSU.

Max Lyon getting in over Charles Small and Neil Antrassian is a joke.

Tyrell Gordon of UNI getting in at HWT despite being 10-15 and going 0-2 at B12s is surely a joke.

There are other terrible ones, but the one that really burns is Max Lyon getting in with a losing record and getting 13th(!!!) in the B1G, despite being healthy.

............... of which you called them both a joke. Max Lyon finished one win from AA status. Far from a joke.

[PaBizon]

Agree to a point but looking at tournament results to prove tournament wild cards were correct is flawed. We saw from Franek to become an all american it takes some luck.

Only an idiot would ever argue the big 10 isn't the best conference. That doesn't necessarily mean just because you are a starter in the big 10 means you are automatically one of the top 33 wrestlers in the country, but it doesn't mean you aren't either. If the committee makes their decisions based on a select criteria and stick to that I wouldn't have a problem but I'm not so sure they do. Especially in seeding which I had more of an issue than their wild card selections.

Let's take a look at 184. Big 10 got 13 wrestlers to Detroit, they have 3 all americans. Big 12 got 2 all americans out of 6 qualifiers. That doesn't mean the big 12 deserved more just based on the results of the tournament but rather the tournament played out well for them.

It shows you that a 13-13 wrestler in the Big 10 is probably every bit as good, maybe better than wrestlers from other conferences that may have 20 wins against lesser competition. I believe Max Lyon was the #30 seed which IMO was probably spot on. I’m saying he deserved to be in the tournament and that selections from the Big 10 shouldn’t be called jokes. That’s all

[Portlandbison]

Going off how the tournament played out isn't proof that the selections were correct. Tournament results are indicators of participants abilities, but also there's a fair share of luck with draws and matchups.

David Ferrante from Northwestern was 11-11 seeded 33 and went 0-2. What do you do with that?

Lyon being a #30 seed who went on a run proves that he wasn't as good as Hidlay, better than Jessen, Kane, Cochran and Moore, and not as good Romero. (3 of those matches were Big 10 matchups, and shocker a big 10 wrestler won)

Jessen was #32 and went 0-2 in the same bracket as Lyon that doesn't mean he wasn't qualified. It just means the guys he lost to were better on Thursday.

[Big Bird]

It's amazing how different HWT is these days. The best guys are freaks and so much more athletic than even 5-10 years ago. The depth and athleticism behind Gable is so strong.

I do question how effective Mora would be at HWT, barring a dramatic change in aggressiveness. You have to be able to put points on the board and he went far too conservative as the year went on. Hopefully he and the staff work on that. Vacura is more active, but needs a lot of refinement and needs to add strength and size. If NDSU targets a transfer in the offseason, HWT is probably the place I would look at.

[Portlandbison]

Any shot of Pentz moving up? I know his strength at 197 is his actual strength which would be neutralized by moving up.

[Big Bird]

Any shot of Pentz moving up? I know his strength at 197 is his actual strength which would be neutralized by moving up.

No clue. I would think 197 is a better fit because of his strength advantage, plus, I don't know what we'd do at 197. Mooberry isn't strong enough and Nelson hasn't had much success as a starter