Transgender student athletes

[ByeSonBusiness]

The chromosome situation is a lot more complicated than just xx or xy so if you’re looking for a simple rule you’re probably not going to find it there. All of this is complicated and invasive and for what? The “integrity” of high school athletics?

I dont see how it's invasive. Or complicated. The legislature wants to make sure that girls are not being forced to compete against boys.

Right. As I understand it, the bill is not only unnecessary from the standpoint of we don’t have precedence in the state to warrant legislation, but also because almost every sport where this could be an issue, has its own governing body that can make these types of calls, either by creating a rule to address them or by case by case basis.

Totally unnecessary law in any state, and especially ours.

You guys will probably end up spending more time bitching about it than the state will in passing/not passing it so I really don't see the issue about it being "necessary" or not.

That's what he is saying. There are already rules in place that govern it. It's part of the reason why there are zero transgender athletes in North Dakota and there never will.

Then codifying it isn't going to hurt anyone, now will it?

The current administration has signaled they intend on requiring states to allow the practice the legislature is trying to prevent.

The prevalence of it really shouldn't matter here either. If the legislature can agree that a practice that is happening around the country (even in small numbers) is not acceptable here, then making a law on the subject makes sense.

[td577]

There may not be a rule currently, but if there arises an occasion to make one, they can either do that or just make an individual ruling given the situation.

Oh, so there isn't currently any rule. Why can't anyone just be proactive and make something current?

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[Kevin]

It’s impossible for a woman to have a penis.

Unless it’s ECHEC8.

[heffray]

I dont see how it's invasive. Or complicated. The legislature wants to make sure that girls are not being forced to compete against boys.



You guys will probably end up spending more time bitching about it than the state will in passing/not passing it so I really don't see the issue about it being "necessary" or not.



Then codifying it isn't going to hurt anyone, now will it?

The current administration has signaled they intend on requiring states to allow the practice the legislature is trying to prevent.

The prevalence of it really shouldn't matter here either. If the legislature can agree that a practice that is happening around the country (even in small numbers) is not acceptable here, then making a law on the subject makes sense.

The fact that we don’t have any transgender athletes currently or historically who want to or have wanted to play a sport in the gender other than their birth combined with the fact that sports have governing bodies who can make these rules or rulings is what makes it unnecessary. It’s obvious to me that it has nothing to do with “protecting your daughters” and everything to do with politically positioning an opinion against transgenderism.

My bitching about that fact would not invalidate this, and I’m not bitching, I’m criticizing our elected leaders, something we should all do if we disagree.

If I wanted to bitch, I’d complain that there are too many posters here who are unable to pull their head out of their ass and make a coherent argument. It’s annoying and amusing at the same time.

[ByeSonBusiness]

The fact that we don’t have any transgender athletes currently or historically who want to or have wanted to play a sport in the gender other than their birth combined with the fact that sports have governing bodies who can make these rules or rulings is what makes it unnecessary. It’s obvious to me that it has nothing to do with “protecting your daughters” and everything to do with politically positioning an opinion against transgenderism.

My bitching about that fact would not invalidate this, and I’m not bitching, I’m criticizing our elected leaders, something we should all do if we disagree.

If I wanted to bitch, I’d complain that there are too many posters here who are unable to pull their head out of their ass and make a coherent argument. It’s annoying and amusing at the same time.

States and countries around the world make laws as a result of events that occur elsewhere.

"Gee, I see that two dudes won ladies state championships in Connecticut. We don't want that to happen here." Perfectly rational and reasonable take.

This is a very recent and new deal. The fact we haven't had people try and do it here yet doesn't preclude proactive legislation. There is 1000% a coherent argument in support of it and it's not edgy or hip to pretend "oh the legislature has literally no argument to support a bill like this."

[IndyBison]

I mean that is one position. As far as a balance I'd say it's as far to one side as it can get. I'm no expert but I do know there are hormone limits that could be another method to ensure fairness that could be argued to be reasonably applied.

If a guy's sole reason for chopping his dick off and suppressing his testosterone is to beat a bunch of girls at sports, that's some level of commitment. In most cases I'd imagine it is just people quite different from me who are mostly just trying to live their life. The biology of gender is rather complex with some weird stuff happening in development, It's not surprising to me that the phycology and physiology are disassociated with a number of people. Not my place to judge them. I'm sure it is a much more difficult life than mine and I hope they are able to find happiness.

I'm not an expert on this subject so I ask someone I've known for years who is going through this now. She helps me at least understand something I don't understand. The key thing she's said is the process is long and involved and never something someone would do just to compete in athletics. One of the issues is some governing agencies should have more clear policies and eligibility for transgender including things like hormone levels. Once someone is to a point where hormone levels are better aligned any advantage they may have had is likely gone. But some governing agencies allow trans athletes before they are complete. I assume some of the stories we see about trans athletes dominating women's sports fall into that category.

Even in the most liberal policies someone can't just say they are trans and the next day they are competing. Ultimately it's not as big of a threat as some make it out to be, but it's also something that needs to be addressed with thought and compassion and fairness to all involved.

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[EC8CH]

I'm not an expert on this subject so I ask someone I've known for years who is going through this now. She helps me at least understand something I don't understand. The key thing she's said is the process is long and involved and never something someone would do just to compete in athletics. One of the issues is some governing agencies should have more clear policies and eligibility for transgender including things like hormone levels. Once someone is to a point where hormone levels are better aligned any advantage they may have had is likely gone. But some governing agencies allow trans athletes before they are complete. I assume some of the stories we see about trans athletes dominating women's sports fall into that category.

Even in the most liberal policies someone can't just say they are trans and the next day they are competing. Ultimately it's not as big of a threat as some make it out to be, but it's also something that needs to be addressed with thought and compassion and fairness to all involved.

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Well put, then again that might just be my woman penis talking.

[bisonaudit]

I'm not an expert on this subject so I ask someone I've known for years who is going through this now. She helps me at least understand something I don't understand. The key thing she's said is the process is long and involved and never something someone would do just to compete in athletics. One of the issues is some governing agencies should have more clear policies and eligibility for transgender including things like hormone levels. Once someone is to a point where hormone levels are better aligned any advantage they may have had is likely gone. But some governing agencies allow trans athletes before they are complete. I assume some of the stories we see about trans athletes dominating women's sports fall into that category.

Even in the most liberal policies someone can't just say they are trans and the next day they are competing. Ultimately it's not as big of a threat as some make it out to be, but it's also something that needs to be addressed with thought and compassion and fairness to all involved.

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I know these qualities are the first thing that come to mind when I think about state legislative bodies.

[td577]

The fact that we don’t have any transgender athletes currently or historically who want to or have wanted to play a sport in the gender other than their birth combined with the fact that sports have governing bodies who can make these rules or rulings is what makes it unnecessary. It’s obvious to me that it has nothing to do with “protecting your daughters” and everything to do with politically positioning an opinion against transgenderism.

My bitching about that fact would not invalidate this, and I’m not bitching, I’m criticizing our elected leaders, something we should all do if we disagree.

If I wanted to bitch, I’d complain that there are too many posters here who are unable to pull their head out of their ass and make a coherent argument. It’s annoying and amusing at the same time.

I find it amusing you have decided everyone who doesn't agree with you obviously must think a very specific way. This is becoming your fallback now after saying we don't need rules because there are rules but really there aren't any rules. Nope, no one can really want to make sure what is happening in other states, which is actually happening in other states, happen in North Dakota in publicly funded activities because it just isn't fair. As a tax payer, I can want publicly funded activities to be fair and support people's free choices simultaneously. Sometimes parameters are required to insure fairness. This is the role of legislation when it comes to publicly funded domains.

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[heffray]

I find it amusing you have decided everyone who doesn't agree with you obviously must think a very specific way. This is becoming your fallback now after saying we don't need rules because there are rules but really there aren't any rules. Nope, no one can really want to make sure what is happening in other states, which is actually happening in other states, happen in North Dakota in publicly funded activities because it just isn't fair. As a tax payer, I can want publicly funded activities to be fair and support people's free choices simultaneously. Sometimes parameters are required to insure fairness. This is the role of legislation when it comes to publicly funded domains.

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I was actually just pointing out how his argument against mine wasn’t really an argument.

You can relax, buddy. I actually see both sides here, I just think it’s a clear issue of partisan politics making a play, not really trying to protect the girls.