Question for Indy on the Fargodome play clock issue that hurt JMU

[THEsocalledfan]

Indy,

Curious what the role of the officials is in a case like this? I'm sure you know what happened already, but so I won't belabor it, but it clearly cost JMU 20-30 seconds of game clock. What is an official supposed to do with the game clock operator screws up that bad? (granted, same crew that let JMU snap a ball 5 seconds after the 40 second clock expired one time.....)

Can't imaging how brutal their review for this game is going to be.....

[Twincitybizon]

Indy,

Curious what the role of the officials is in a case like this? I'm sure you know what happened already, but so I won't belabor it, but it clearly cost JMU 20-30 seconds of game clock. What is an official supposed to do with the game clock operator screws up that bad? (granted, same crew that let JMU snap a ball 5 seconds after the 40 second clock expired one time.....)

Can't imaging how brutal their review for this game is going to be.....

Pretty sure he did address this elsewhere. Siad they should have stopped the game and reset everything and wind they play lock at 40 or something. Not sure where it is or I'd have tagged it

[stevdock]

Another question. On the two point conversion the color guy on tv said even if we went up to snap the ball the ref was standing over the ball so he wouldn’t have let us snap it anyways. I assume it was because QP2 got out there late. If that was the reason is the offense just screwed then?? He did get out there between 7-10 seconds on the play clock I believe.

[SomeBeach]

Indy,

Curious what the role of the officials is in a case like this? I'm sure you know what happened already, but so I won't belabor it, but it clearly cost JMU 20-30 seconds of game clock. What is an official supposed to do with the game clock operator screws up that bad? (granted, same crew that let JMU snap a ball 5 seconds after the 40 second clock expired one time.....)

Can't imaging how brutal their review for this game is going to be.....

IndyBison
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Default Re: JMU Post Game Thoughts & Discussion

Quote Originally Posted by SomeBeach View Post
Does the NCAA supply the game clock operator for the playoffs, or does the usual Bison person do it? Wondering exactly who messed up so often tonight.

Clock operators are provided by the home team. That was s huge miss with 2:54 left in the 4th. The officials on the field need to see that. One thing to miss 2-3 seconds there but 25 is bad. You can see the R get on his O2O radio so I think he recognized something. But they didn't correct anything there. I'm asking some replay friends to see if they can fix it during the time out. I'm thinking they could have set the game clock back to about 2:14 after the time out.

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IndyBison
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Default Re: JMU Post Game Thoughts & Discussion

Quote Originally Posted by oldmantutters View Post
It definitely seemed like they noticed on the field but maybe didn't know where they should have rewound the game clock to.

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Every official should take a quick peek at the game clock after every play to note what it did be at the end of the play clock at that point of the game. The F and S are primary on the game clock and the B is primary on the play clock. They also have O2O with replay and could possibly get unofficial help from them. They probably should have shut it down, reset the game clock to 2:54, play clock to 40 and wind both. If I hear anything from my replay friends I'll let you know.

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[IndyBison]

Another question. On the two point conversion the color guy on tv said even if we went up to snap the ball the ref was standing over the ball so he wouldn’t have let us snap it anyways. I assume it was because QP2 got out there late. If that was the reason is the offense just screwed then?? He did get out there between 7-10 seconds on the play clock I believe.

My comment pasted above is still valid on the end of game situation. I haven't heard any details about what actually happened there, but it is apparent the crew knew something may have been wrong. I was thinking the Bison had called time out at the end of the play clock, but they ran a play. Once that happened I don't believe anything can be done to correct it. I also haven't heard from anyone in replay saying they can do anything once the ball is snapped. The crew probably should have shut it down, set the game clock back to 2:55 and the play clock at 40 and wind both. That's a pretty significant miss by the crew at a significant time of the game. JMU probably gets at least 2 or 3 more games on their drive if done correctly.

I didn't notice anyone going to the huddle but that would be a reason for the U to stand over the ball. When they went back to the game feed there were 11 seconds left and nobody entered or left the huddle so anyone entered before that. The U is on the ball so I assume it was for substitution at some point before that. He backs away at 9 so I assume the R dropped what we call the "iron cross" indicating substitution. He comes back up with about 5 seconds left I assume because it appears the offense has no intention of breaking the huddle and run a play. The stadium is quiet and the Bison are in the huddle so the L is going to hear any time out requests. I've heard that reported as well. If there was a request to move the ball to the right hash that has to happen before the play clock hits 25. There is no video evidence I've seen either way on that request. Watching the players in the huddle though there are a couple giving the one hand pump symbol indicating they expect it to be reset. I'm guessing that's what the coaches expected too.

In an effort to speed up the game they changed the play clock rules to run a normal 40-second play clock after a score as this was recognized as a time where there was unnecessary time wasted. If there is any delay in the ball getting spotted they will reset it. In replay games they often reset it if there is any review of the score. The players and coaches may be used to it getting reset often, but I saw nothing here to indicate why it needed to be reset. The only possible issue here was if they did request a different hash location before the play clock hit 25 and the crew didn't honor it. Was anything said about this in the press conference?

[Herd]

In a situation where the play clock goes to 0, is at 0 for 2-3 seconds before the ball is snapped, is that a challenge-able play? Seems like you should be able to red flag that, and have them take a look to correct. It’s an easily reviewable play, right?

[IndyBison]

In a situation where the play clock goes to 0, is at 0 for 2-3 seconds before the ball is snapped, is that a challenge-able play? Seems like you should be able to red flag that, and have them take a look to correct. It’s an easily reviewable play, right?

I don't believe it is. The play clock is not like the shot clock in basketball. The start of it is somewhat arbitrary. The back judge will watch the play clock as it gets close. If he sees it hit 0 he will then look at the snap. If it's in process or happens immediately after he looks he'll likely let it go. It's not something to get picky about.

I've seen several references to a play Friday night where it was 4-5 seconds after, but I didn't see it. I assume it was less than that because people like to exaggerate. But if it was missed, I'm guessing the B just failed to check the play clock or he knew it was wrong and kept it on the field. The latter is not likely but it's always possible.

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[IndyBison]

I had to post this photo on a Facebook discussion. Someone was trying to tell me the offense was not in a huddle and the umpire was holding the ball preventing them from snapping it. They ultimately said we need to agree to disagree when I explained what was clearly visible on the screen. You can clearly see the Bison in the huddle, the ball on the ground, and the umpire will off the ball. The only thing preventing the Bison from running the play was their lack of interest in running a play. They may have thought the play clock needed to be reset and Coach Entz may have requested a time out, but the crew was doing nothing to prevent them from running a play.

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[WeAreThePride]

I don't believe it is. The play clock is not like the shot clock in basketball. The start of it is somewhat arbitrary. The back judge will watch the play clock as it gets close. If he sees it hit 0 he will then look at the snap. If it's in process or happens immediately after he looks he'll likely let it go. It's not something to get picky about.

I've seen several references to a play Friday night where it was 4-5 seconds after, but I didn't see it. I assume it was less than that because people like to exaggerate. But if it was missed, I'm guessing the B just failed to check the play clock or he knew it was wrong and kept it on the field. The latter is not likely but it's always possible.

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It was enough time for our entire section of the stands to start screaming "Delay, Delay!" while pointing at the play clock. I know I looked from the play clock, to the line of scrimmage, and back to the play clock at least three times to confirm what I was seeing.

[scottietohottie]

I had to post this photo on a Facebook discussion. Someone was trying to tell me the offense was not in a huddle and the umpire was holding the ball preventing them from snapping it. They ultimately said we need to agree to disagree when I explained what was clearly visible on the screen. You can clearly see the Bison in the huddle, the ball on the ground, and the umpire will off the ball. The only thing preventing the Bison from running the play was their lack of interest in running a play. They may have thought the play clock needed to be reset and Coach Entz may have requested a time out, but the crew was doing nothing to prevent them from running a play.

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I think that's when I saw Entz trying to take a timeout and when he finally got there attention they saw the zero and just through the flag instead of giving the timeout. The refs and all the fans were just in shock that he actually called the timeout. Took him 3 tries to form a T. I'm sure it was frustration I saw and not actually a grown man not knowing the timeout sign.