JMU Post-Game Thoughts & Discussion

[IndyBison]

Have you ever read any opponents message board after we play them? "NDSU holds all the time!" Its almost like people don't understand what holding is...

Bingo! Most fans don't understand it. It took me 5-6 years of officiating before I really understood it and had it simplified for me. Here is a quick primer for the Bison fans!

For OH it should fall into one of these 6 categories:
1) Grab and restrict - grab someone who has beat you and take away a step at the point of attack
2) Hook and restrict - hook someone usually high and bend them backward
3) Jerk and restrict - usually a jersey tug that takes you away from the point of attack just brief enough to not make a play
4) Take down - usually the result of a blocker getting in the chest of a defender and twisting him down to the ground
5) Tackle - usually grabbing a defender around the legs/ankles and tackling him
6) Pull over - lineman grabs defender and falls backward pulling defender on top of him - hard to distinguish from a successful bull rush by the defender

In most cases offensive holding happens when the blocker is beat (i.e. no longer between the defender and the runner). We use the phrase "feet beat cheat." A good block can quickly turn into a hold depending on which side of the blocker the defender goes. For example, a TE is facing the sideline and has the defender sealed off for an inside run. But the runner chooses to go outside instead. If the defender tries to turn to pursue that runner and blocker prevents him that is likely holding.

Holding often occurs on the edges by pulling linemen or receivers. Receivers downfield also can get into trouble. Check out the block by #19 on the 3rd down TD scramble by Lance. When he initially makes contact at the 25 he gets the defender into a backpedal. At that point the defender is beat and it is very unlikely that will turn into a hold. But if the defender is able to get leverage and try to shed the block (which he does around the 15) it can turn into a hold if the blocker doesn't let go. I often tell blockers the release is important once the defender is in position to move away from you. I thought his actions on this play could have been a hold and would probably be supported. I showed it to several other college officials (most of whom watched the game!) and it was split 50/50. Those who wouldn't have called it said by the time he tries to turn and the restriction happens the runner was already gone. Others said it was still a big restriction out in the middle of everyone to see. The officials on this play probably went with the former.

Other key terms to actually have a holding foul are "material restriction at the point of attack." If it happens on a short dive up the middle or as part of a double team (unless he breaks away from one of them and the other is restricting him) we usually let that go. If the defender commits late one direction or the other let it go. He beat himself. If you see a jersey tug make sure it actually took a step away from the defender. Sometimes it doesn't even slow them down (parents with small kids can relate).

Here is a flyer produced by Referee Magazine several years ago that discusses the categories as well. These aren't listed in the rule book, but they are commonly used when teaching officials how to call holding CONSISTENTLY. If you are a coach and you get called for holding, ask the official which category it was in. If he can answer you probably have a decent official.

https://kvfoa.org/clinician/kvfoa.or...of%20Holds.pdf

[VirginiaBison]

JMU football players react to title game loss to NDSU

[cbline]

JMU football players react to title game loss to NDSU

Defensive end John Daka: “This isn’t the last time you’ll see the Dukes in Frisco." I wonder in which section they will get seats to watch the Bison win again.

[NDSU1980]

I want to comment on this. When we left the field, we went up through the JMU section and out by the JMU parking lot. Walking through their stadium section was abhorrent! Their area was completely littered with streamers and confetti and trash. You could take a peek down every aisle and see very clearly where the JMU fans sat and where the NDSU fans sat (towards ends). It was disgusting.

Then, walking on the North side of the stadium, the parking lot trees were full of streamers, which I'd highly doubt were cleared off. It was a disgusting area and once again, their fanbase is low class when it comes to cleaning up after themselves.

I hope someone has pics of this. It's JMU's calling card it seems to leave a mountain of trash.

[westnodak93bison]

Ran into a Griz player on my way to the pisser and told him "Oh, you came to watch some real football?" He just said he ha ha and walked away.

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[CAS4127]

I think Jeff does a great job. I remember when he came to NDSU. He was prepared! He talked about past teams and players like he was the one that had been calling the games. If you want a better appreciation of what he does with the Bison games just listen to the radio pxp of the school up north for 10 min.

Jeff and his staff do an excellent job. His pxp is actually better than Scotty’s, as in way more detail. And I think Phil is more engaged/cued into being more into it.

Plus, Jeff has developed and more personal relationship with players and knows their stories better than Scotty. Not taking away from or bashing Scotty, but it feels like peeps here are sympathetic to his legacy that got cut short by effing cancer.

Let’s roll with what we have, cuz it’s excellent and way better than ANYThing at our level, and beyond, if I may say so.


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[CAS4127]

or that their own team is using similar technique and the officials will call it on either team if it is illegal.


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Exactly. Be careful what you ask for, but, two things:

One:
What laymen think is holding isn’t, as in grabbing Jersey inside the pads. That’s why Kramer works in hand strength. Hayes’ D play is an example in a way;

Two: And we’ve seen this in the NFL. Flags are tied a bit tighter deep in the playoffs. Gotta scout that and know your officials. Guarantee NDSU did.

Third, we flat out beat JMU and we were way more physical than them—>IOW, fuck them!!



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[mtoutfitter]

I think Jeff does a great job. I remember when he came to NDSU. He was prepared! He talked about past teams and players like he was the one that had been calling the games. If you want a better appreciation of what he does with the Bison games just listen to the radio pxp of the school up north for 10 min.

I agree. I'm busy with hunting season during most games and the only way I can stay connected on game day is by radio. Culhane does a WWAAAYYYYYYYY better job than the fellas who do the Cats and Griz games out here.

[djohnk]

Cignetti was a little excited in the fourth quarter, but the gentleman didn't back down: https://bit.ly/35YJwhD

Maybe he is one of the assistant coaches that left.

[IndyBison]

Exactly. Be careful what you ask for, but, two things:

One:
What laymen think is holding isn’t, as in grabbing Jersey inside the pads. That’s why Kramer works in hand strength. Hayes’ D play is an example in a way;

Two: And we’ve seen this in the NFL. Flags are tied a bit tighter deep in the playoffs. Gotta scout that and know your officials. Guarantee NDSU did.

Third, we flat out beat JMU and we were way more physical than them—>IOW, fuck them!!



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If anyone was watching the first 3-4 weeks of the NFL you know exactly what CAS is talking about. They were asked to lower the threshold for holding and there were a lot more holding fouls. Fans and players HATED it. So they went back to their normal threshold which is already a little tighter. You don't want holding to become too technical.

As we say, get the felonies and not the misdemeanors.

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