2019 Sagarin Says

[MankatoBison]

I’m not disputing that we’ve been better than everybody else. I’m asking, ‘what’s wrong with that?’ I’m sorry if our success triggers people but how is it ‘inappropriate’?

Nothings wrong with us being better. Its frustrating when we beat 1 good team a year. Its inappropriate how inept our opponents are, on average, and on average how little other programs care at all about football. It is inappropriate.

I mean if you want to go to bat for JMU, montana, SDSU, you have an arguement. But that argument becomes a fantasy when you look at over 95% of FCS. I'm not suggesting this as a pro FBS comment. Two things can be true at once- our competition is embarrassing in quality and commitment to football, and the FCS can be the best place for us right now. Greta Van Fleet is foaming at the mouth in defense of Lord knows what. I'm just stating a fact. It is inappropriate how awful virtual everyone else is in the FCS.

[Christopher Moen]

Nothings wrong with us being better. Its frustrating when we beat 1 good team a year. Its inappropriate how inept our opponents are, on average, and on average how little other programs care at all about football. It is inappropriate.

I mean if you want to go to bat for JMU, montana, SDSU, you have an arguement. But that argument becomes a fantasy when you look at over 95% of FCS. I'm not suggesting this as a pro FBS comment. Two things can be true at once- our competition is embarrassing in quality and commitment to football, and the FCS can be the best place for us right now. Greta Van Fleet is foaming at the mouth in defense of Lord knows what. I'm just stating a fact. It is inappropriate how awful virtual everyone else is in the FCS.

I don't think everyone else in the FCS is awful. What I believe is that NDSU, with the quality of their recruits and development, are just really, really good. Like better than two thirds of the P5 good.

Take the Bison from the past few years, and the next few years and place them along anytime of the FCS/1-AA's existence and they are still a very dominant team. Take the teams from this list: http://www.pressboxsports.net/colleg...-16-fcs-teams/ and I believe they can beat any team on that list. The 1996 Marshall and 2013 NDSU teams would be difficult, but it would be fun match-ups.

This is going to be issue that isn't going to go away. The quality of kids coming here, instead of taking scholarships from G5 schools and PWO/maybe scholarships from P5 schools, is to be part of a strong traditional team that has a great core of values and wins Championships. Since nobody can change the level NDSU plays at, including the AD, embrace the success. Something like this will probably not happened at the DI level again.

[CAS4127]

To say that the FCS is bad football this year or over the last several, to me, would require an historical review of where the FCS was BEFORE we began our run—Sarigan/Massey rankings for example??? But even with those numbers, one would have to facto in the NDSU effect on rankings of other teams. It’s kinda complicated and beyond my suckass math skills.

Also, I don’t recall Lakes posting anything that substantiates he has been predicting undefeated teams for 8-9 years other than an after the fact post here recently. Just another attention post for him.


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[tjamz]

Nothings wrong with us being better. Its frustrating when we beat 1 good team a year. Its inappropriate how inept our opponents are, on average, and on average how little other programs care at all about football. It is inappropriate.

I mean if you want to go to bat for JMU, montana, SDSU, you have an arguement. But that argument becomes a fantasy when you look at over 95% of FCS. I'm not suggesting this as a pro FBS comment. Two things can be true at once- our competition is embarrassing in quality and commitment to football, and the FCS can be the best place for us right now. Greta Van Fleet is foaming at the mouth in defense of Lord knows what. I'm just stating a fact. It is inappropriate how awful virtual everyone else is in the FCS.

Arguably, NDSU is better than 89% of G5 schools as well according to Sagarin thus far this year (Who only has Boise, Air Force, Navy, UCF, Cincinnati, Memphis and App State ranked above us) and 75% of all D1 college football teams.

The (hypothetical) question becomes this: What happens if/when NDSU moves up to a G5 conference and dominates at that level within the first 15 years that it is there? Do the war drums start beating again about a move to a P5 conference? What if we become a 6-5 or 7-4 team or even have a string of sub .500 years? What if we cannot afford it after we take the plunge and football suffers for it? Do we then try and move back down?

IMHO those are the things we need to consider as well.

[GreenfieldBison]

To say that the FCS is bad football this year or over the last several, to me, would require an historical review of where the FCS was BEFORE we began our run—Sarigan/Massey rankings for example??? But even with those numbers, one would have to facto in the NDSU effect on rankings of other teams. It’s kinda complicated and beyond my suckass math skills.

Also, I don’t recall Lakes posting anything that substantiates he has been predicting undefeated teams for 8-9 years other than an after the fact post here recently. Just another attention post for him.


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Yeah I agree that it is a futile endeavor to try and compare even say, a 2013 version of one program to say, a 2018 version of the same program. To say nothing of comparing differing years of one program to some other program. Just wild speculation that can in no way take into account all the variables of coaching staffs, player skills, officiating crews, rules, weather and all the other variables I have not managed to enumerate.

What we CAN do though, and quite successfully IMHO given the benefit of the FCS playoff system, is to determine who is the best in the present. The world started on August 31, 2019 at Target Field in the Minneapple. From there to present I believe that these Bison who comprise the 2019 incarnation of the program have demonstrated a dominance that is pretty staggering. They had a little scare with Mo St that illustrates that in fact the competition is not that far behind if the Bison are not on their game on a given day. They also were challenged in Brookings that reinforces this point. I am convinced today that, well they will continue to go 1-0 this week ...

Going into Target Field I was unsure of my own expectations for 2019. As amorphous as those expectations were at that point I can say that they have been exceeded in the extreme. I have been a bit awestruck by the Bison Football program since I attended the Bison-Gopher game in the baggie in 2006. They continue to elevate my level of wonderment to this day.

I am not fatigued. I will gladly take a knee though after the Saluki game, just for some reflection.

Hats off to you Bison Football 2019 if you have anyone reading this nonsense.


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[stevdock]

Arguably, NDSU is better than 89% of G5 schools as well according to Sagarin thus far this year (Who only has Boise, Air Force, Navy, UCF, Cincinnati, Memphis and App State ranked above us) and 75% of all D1 college football teams.

The (hypothetical) question becomes this: What happens if/when NDSU moves up to a G5 conference and dominates at that level within the first 15 years that it is there? Do the war drums start beating again about a move to a P5 conference? What if we become a 6-5 or 7-4 team or even have a string of sub .500 years? What if we cannot afford it after we take the plunge and football suffers for it? Do we then try and move back down?

IMHO those are the things we need to consider as well.

These are great questions and need to be seriously looked at before a move happens. Some of you think the dome is empty now even though we are undefeated, what's the dome going to look like with a 3 loss regular season team? It's not going to go well. We have a lot of fans that are only here because the Bison are as good as they are. Will that continue with the team is average? Definitely not. Now that doesn't mean don't look at FBS, but it's an issue we've seen here in the past. Also I believe we get a lot of recruits because of the national championship opportunity. Why go G5 and just have a chance to be recognized or come here and compete for national championships? Now tradition, pedigree, draft status etc will also help in our direction, but for how long?

[bisonboone11]

Can we please not turn the Sagarin thread into another FBS thread?

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[Christopher Moen]

Can we please not turn the Sagarin thread into another FBS thread?

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Yes, remove all FBS from the Sagarin. Going to be sweet being #1 in this rating!


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[MankatoBison]

I don't think everyone else in the FCS is awful. What I believe is that NDSU, with the quality of their recruits and development, are just really, really good. Like better than two thirds of the P5 good.

Take the Bison from the past few years, and the next few years and place them along anytime of the FCS/1-AA's existence and they are still a very dominant team. Take the teams from this list: http://www.pressboxsports.net/colleg...-16-fcs-teams/ and I believe they can beat any team on that list. The 1996 Marshall and 2013 NDSU teams would be difficult, but it would be fun match-ups.

This is going to be issue that isn't going to go away. The quality of kids coming here, instead of taking scholarships from G5 schools and PWO/maybe scholarships from P5 schools, is to be part of a strong traditional team that has a great core of values and wins Championships. Since nobody can change the level NDSU plays at, including the AD, embrace the success. Something like this will probably not happened at the DI level again.

These are all very fair and reasonable arguments. I just get depressed seeing virtually every interesting team jump. I mean how fun would app state games be right now? or Georgia southern! That isnt to say we need to jump- I think the most desirable situation for me personally, would be for the FCS to elevate its culture, instead of leaving FCS completely. Seriously, wouldnt it be awesome if the average MVFC team could have HALF or even a THIRD of the passion of commitment of us or Montana? SDSU is lightyears ahead of everyone else in our conference (the best in the FCS) and they cant get 7001 people to see a top 10 matchup against a conference opponent. Sad, really... It just seems to me that the average program is getting LESS interesting and LESS competative over time. you can see this in how the FCS>FBS upsets are dwindling pretty much every year after the 2015 season or whatever it was where there were like 20 upsets.

[DakotaOkie]

These are all very fair and reasonable arguments. I just get depressed seeing virtually every interesting team jump. I mean how fun would app state games be right now? or Georgia southern! That isnt to say we need to jump- I think the most desirable situation for me personally, would be for the FCS to elevate its culture, instead of leaving FCS completely. Seriously, wouldnt it be awesome if the average MVFC team could have HALF or even a THIRD of the passion of commitment of us or Montana? SDSU is lightyears ahead of everyone else in our conference (the best in the FCS) and they cant get 7001 people to see a top 10 matchup against a conference opponent. Sad, really... It just seems to me that the average program is getting LESS interesting and LESS competative over time. you can see this in how the FCS>FBS upsets are dwindling pretty much every year after the 2015 season or whatever it was where there were like 20 upsets.

SDSU seems to have trouble filling seats most of the time, but an open air stadium in 30-35 degree weather is seldom going to sell out. It was no different in the successful Bison DII days on Dacotah Field. The place was not full when the weather turned downward which could be any Saturday after mid-October.