MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

[kab1one]

Since this conversation was around St. Thomas and St. Johns I looked up their Common Data Set information. St. Thomas has an 81% acceptance rate, there median ACT (25% to 75%) is 21-26.5. The rate of admitted students ACT 30+ is 11.37. NDSU numbers were 93%, 21-26, and 9.75%. I couldn't find a SJU CDS but what I found similar data on their site. They admitted 80% of applicants last Fall and 5.5%-6.5% of their incoming class most years has an ACT of 32 or higher.

All 3 are very good schools but most people who apply can get into them. I would have to dig further to see if there are schools in the area with admissions rates lower than 50%. That seems to be where the game starts to change even for very good students.

We didn't have any issues getting accepted in the schools we visited. Drake and Valpo included. To bad your child didn't get their top choices.

Couple of interesting items to note on the financial aid/scholarship side. St. Johns and Thomas provided the financial awards all four years. Whereas Concordia had a 2 year program, with years 3 and 4 not set in stone. Almost felt they gave you more aid up front to get you in the door, and potentially pull back later.

[kab1one]

Friend of mine. Son I attending engineering school at Northwestern in Chicago. $78k a year. Obviously doesn't pay that. Maybe 30K a year. So will spend $120k out of pocket to get a Northwestern Engineering degree.

Whereas had a full ride at NDSU.

My brother in law works at a survey and civil engineering firm in the cities. I asked what they pay a starting engineer student from NDSU. $55k plus benefits. I asked what you would pay a starting engineer from Northwestern. $55k plus benefits.

So my question. How do you recoup the cost of some of these schools? Engineering, Accountant, Programming are the same for the most part. Finance Law Medicine may get you to a better firm or position, but most of these degrees out there I don't see spending the extra money.

[Bison bison]

A good education is invaluable.

[GreenfieldBison]

Friend of mine. Son I attending engineering school at Northwestern in Chicago. $78k a year. Obviously doesn't pay that. Maybe 30K a year. So will spend $120k out of pocket to get a Northwestern Engineering degree.

Whereas had a full ride at NDSU.

My brother in law works at a survey and civil engineering firm in the cities. I asked what they pay a starting engineer student from NDSU. $55k plus benefits. I asked what you would pay a starting engineer from Northwestern. $55k plus benefits.

So my question. How do you recoup the cost of some of these schools? Engineering, Accountant, Programming are the same for the most part. Finance Law Medicine may get you to a better firm or position, but most of these degrees out there I don't see spending the extra money.

Yes they will be paid the same. Which is more likely to be hired, all else being equal?

[IndyBison]

Yes they will be paid the same. Which is more likely to be hired, all else being equal?

The Northwestern engineer is not likely to seek employment at a survey and civil engineering firm in Minneapolis. I tried to find average salary information for Northwestern grads but a quick search didn't find anything. When we visited Purdue the average starting salary for their computer science grads was like $75-$80k. The top schools will often give you a bigger head start but you will need to rely on your actual work to grow from there. The connections you make will also be different. Also if you are considering grad schools you have higher credibility coming from more known programs.

Bottom line though is you can be as successful as you want to be no matter what path you choose. Some choose to pursue an advantage they have earned through higher academic performance in high school.

[IndyBison]

We didn't have any issues getting accepted in the schools we visited. Drake and Valpo included. To bad your child didn't get their top choices.

Couple of interesting items to note on the financial aid/scholarship side. St. Johns and Thomas provided the financial awards all four years. Whereas Concordia had a 2 year program, with years 3 and 4 not set in stone. Almost felt they gave you more aid up front to get you in the door, and potentially pull back later.

Drake has a 67% acceptance rate and Valpo is 82%. They are both great schools, but their acceptance rate indicates it's relatively easy to get accepted for a top student.

The schools my son looked at my not be any better, but they were definitely harder to get accepted. Even if the average GPA/SAT/ACT are similar, the acceptance rate changes how you have to approach getting accepted. They don't only accept top students, but the higher your scores are the better. Then you need an advocate either in admissions, the department or a coach. The admissions scandal people found a conduit with coaches of secondary sports at these elite schools and exploited it.

[kab1one]

Drake has a 67% acceptance rate and Valpo is 82%. They are both great schools, but their acceptance rate indicates it's relatively easy to get accepted for a top student.

The schools my son looked at my not be any better, but they were definitely harder to get accepted. Even if the average GPA/SAT/ACT are similar, the acceptance rate changes how you have to approach getting accepted. They don't only accept top students, but the higher your scores are the better. Then you need an advocate either in admissions, the department or a coach. The admissions scandal people found a conduit with coaches of secondary sports at these elite schools and exploited it.

Somebody brought up individuals giving the school money that may have led to a child's admission. Dr. Dre for example gave USC 70 million. His Child attended. In this case the school got the money. In the Admission scandal, the school employees/coaches were getting the money to end around the system. The first case, Dr. Dre wants to give $70 million and that helps his kids get in. So be it. That in many ways how the world works. Whereas the admissions officials and coaches breaking the rules, just doesn't seem right. At the end of the day, maybe they are the same. Just seems to me the school should get the excess cash.

Maybe its no different the buying scalped tickets. The team or school doesn't get the extra money, but scalping isn't view negatively.

[IndyBison]

Somebody brought up individuals giving the school money that may have led to a child's admission. Dr. Dre for example gave USC 70 million. His Child attended. In this case the school got the money. In the Admission scandal, the school employees/coaches were getting the money to end around the system. The first case, Dr. Dre wants to give $70 million and that helps his kids get in. So be it. That in many ways how the world works. Whereas the admissions officials and coaches breaking the rules, just doesn't seem right. At the end of the day, maybe they are the same. Just seems to me the school should get the excess cash.

Maybe its no different the buying scalped tickets. The team or school doesn't get the extra money, but scalping isn't view negatively.

I agree there is a huge difference. One MAY be unethical but I don't think it is. The school as a whole before from the donation. The bribery of an individual coach is illegal and only benefits that coach.

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[GreenfieldBison]

It WAS a really big check.

https://youtu.be/CXdc2L3QH9U

[IndyBison]

It WAS a really big check.

https://youtu.be/CXdc2L3QH9U

There is a school in New Jersey that used to be known as Glassboro State College. Think a much bigger Minot State (nearly 20k students) in rural New Jersey (there actually is such a thing!). Legend has it in the early 90s they were hosting a fundraising event and a gentleman who attended asked someone what it would take to name the university after him. They gave him a number ($100m) and he wrote a check. The school is now Rowan University name after industrialist Henry Rowan. Not a bad legacy! I don't know if his children attended the university though.