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Thread: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

  1. #61
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    Default Re: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyBison View Post
    If your goal is to have a small practice of your own then you are absolutely correct. But if you have different ambitions then you need to have a different strategy. Just because someone goes to a top school doesn't mean they are given an easy pass. They still have to work to take advantage of the opportunity. If I'm willing to do that work regardless of where I go, I'm likely better off going to the better school that has more connection especially in the field I'm interested or in the market that helps me. There will be a cost benefit analysis though. If the significantly more advantageous is a lot more expensive, then it may not be worth it. If one is a free ride and the other will be $50k/year it will take a lot of advantages for me to overcome that $200k of debt/investment.

    My son probably could have had some decent scholarships to mostly pay for his college, but there were two challenges. First, how do you know until you apply and get the results? You can't apply to 200 schools and see if there are any that will do that. You can apply to a bunch of likely ones, but until they make their merit decisions you don't know. And by then it's too late to go back and apply to others that would consider you for full ride scholarships. It would be nice if the academic programs went out and sought full rides and recruited them as such like sports programs do. Second, you may not have any interest in going to the the school willing to offer you that. My son worked hard especially the last 2 years because he wanted to go to a school known for high academics. He wasn't quite in the Ivy League level or even Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, but he's in the tier right below that. He ultimately did get 3 very good offers with 2 of them providing decent scholarship offers. But he's still looking at $22-$35k/year. He could go to the $22k school (Big 10) but it's not known for his area of interest. He could definitely make the most of it because it's an excellent school overall, but if he puts that same effort into the other two schools, he'll have many more opportunities opened up to him either from a work standpoint or grad school. Connections and reputation at both will be critical. But that first job or 2 or grad school will be a critical part of it. Even if he starts $10-$15k higher because of the school he chooses that's a big head start because you will only grow from that.

    There are many paths to success here and they don't all involve a 4-year degree. Each person needs to choose their path and make the most of it.
    My opinion is very colored by my twenty plus years in the alternative investment space. A $200k investment in education is not even a single year bonus for a relatively junior investment professional in this realm. If you have what it takes to get to the Ivies or a Stanford or U of C, etc. and you are willing to put in the hours and live the life of one of these types then that education investment is just noise relative to your total financial landscape.

    If indeed you land yourself at an Ivy for an undergrad or grad experience you can bet your bottom dollar that the value of the connections alone will far eclipse the cost of attendance unless you become mentally ill or criminally inclined in the interim. Bank that.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by HerdBot View Post
    If they can't do the job, they won't make it through medical school or the residency. Actually I've had 2 surgeries in my life and both were done by a UND guy. The only reason I knew that is we started talking football before the 2nd surgery and he joked he was a UND guy. And UND med school apparently sucks.

    Connections? The pessimist in me says that is all marketing but I could be wrong. I know many successful people and I have no idea where they went to school. It's about as valuable to me as where they graduated in high school. Show me what you've done.
    I'm an NDSU grad and I did fine in my career as far as I am concerned. I received a GREAT education from a collection of talented, smart and caring educators/researchers that I would not trade for anything. But let's not kid ourselves. I have had professional experience with numerous others who for whatever reason pushed themselves to "better" educational experiences and as a result started higher up the ladder than I did or more importantly had more influential friends to turn to in rough waters. It matters. You could use the NFL draft as a clear example. Do you think there are FCS kids who are undrafted but better than some of the FBS guys who were? I bet you do.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison View Post
    I'm an NDSU grad and I did fine in my career as far as I am concerned. I received a GREAT education from a collection of talented, smart and caring educators/researchers that I would not trade for anything. But let's not kid ourselves. I have had professional experience with numerous others who for whatever reason pushed themselves to "better" educational experiences and as a result started higher up the ladder than I did or more importantly had more influential friends to turn to in rough waters. It matters. You could use the NFL draft as a clear example. Do you think there are FCS kids who are undrafted but better than some of the FBS guys who were? I bet you do.
    EH, as long as they make it through medical school and their residency give me that doctor from Guyana.
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    Default Re: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by Vet70 View Post
    EH, as long as they make it through medical school and their residency give me that doctor from Guyana.
    Well no doubt they are better than me but I DO have a spoon and a small bottle of rubbing alcohol...

  5. #65
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    Default Re: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison View Post
    My opinion is very colored by my twenty plus years in the alternative investment space. A $200k investment in education is not even a single year bonus for a relatively junior investment professional in this realm. If you have what it takes to get to the Ivies or a Stanford or U of C, etc. and you are willing to put in the hours and live the life of one of these types then that education investment is just noise relative to your total financial landscape.

    If indeed you land yourself at an Ivy for an undergrad or grad experience you can bet your bottom dollar that the value of the connections alone will far eclipse the cost of attendance unless you become mentally ill or criminally inclined in the interim. Bank that.
    My cousin and went to NDSU and then UND Law school. He doesn't want to move from the area. He owns his own small practice (but a very busy one) and he has a non flashy office with limited expenses and seemingly works non stop. He's got so much business he's thinking of bring in a partner. Assuming he bills smack dab in the $200-500 per hour attorney range, he probably makes 200K in 3 months. In his case a Harvard education wouldn't do much being in fargo but if you want to go work for someone elsewhere I'm sure it's valuable. More than 1 way to skin a cat. Either way if you need to make more than he's making, you have a serious small dick issue
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison View Post
    My opinion is very colored by my twenty plus years in the alternative investment space. A $200k investment in education is not even a single year bonus for a relatively junior investment professional in this realm. If you have what it takes to get to the Ivies or a Stanford or U of C, etc. and you are willing to put in the hours and live the life of one of these types then that education investment is just noise relative to your total financial landscape.

    If indeed you land yourself at an Ivy for an undergrad or grad experience you can bet your bottom dollar that the value of the connections alone will far eclipse the cost of attendance unless you become mentally ill or criminally inclined in the interim. Bank that.

    Pfft.

    Majoring in what?

    People who are bright and put in 80 hours a week are usually very successful regardless of where they went to school.
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  7. #67
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    Default Re: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by Bison bison View Post
    Pfft.

    Majoring in what?

    People who are bright and put in 80 hours a week are usually very successful regardless of where they went to school.
    Yep. The thing is most people don't put the work in. The most brilliant people I know are stuck in solid but mediocre careers because they don't act upon their ideas and goals. They just theorize them. Meanwhile some of the most average people I know literally write checks to buy lake homes because they act on their goals.
    .


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  8. #68
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    Default Re: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by HerdBot View Post
    My cousin and went to NDSU and then UND Law school. He doesn't want to move from the area. He owns his own small practice (but a very busy one) and he has a non flashy office with limited expenses and seemingly works non stop. He's got so much business he's thinking of bring in a partner. Assuming he bills smack dab in the $200-500 per hour attorney range, he probably makes 200K in 3 months. In his case a Harvard education wouldn't do much being in fargo but if you want to go work for someone elsewhere I'm sure it's valuable. More than 1 way to skin a cat. Either way if you need to make more than he's making, you have a serious small dick issue
    Yeah right - the key point being “being in Fargo” or Minneapolis or some other relatively small pond. But the bigger pond you want to play in the more those connections matter. Watch the Democratic race for the 2020 Presidential nomination. Barring someone having just out of this world charisma I guarantee you that at the end of the day the eventual nominee will have a rich set of political connections. The Senator from my state who is running will not be successful even though she is pretty qualified.


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  9. #69
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    Default Re: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison View Post
    Yeah right - the key point being “being in Fargo” or Minneapolis or some other relatively small pond. But the bigger pond you want to play in the more those connections matter. Watch the Democratic race for the 2020 Presidential nomination. Barring someone having just out of this world charisma I guarantee you that at the end of the day the eventual nominee will have a rich set of political connections. The Senator from my state who is running will not be successful even though she is pretty qualified.


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    Default Re: MIAC trying to force out St Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison View Post
    My opinion is very colored by my twenty plus years in the alternative investment space. A $200k investment in education is not even a single year bonus for a relatively junior investment professional in this realm. If you have what it takes to get to the Ivies or a Stanford or U of C, etc. and you are willing to put in the hours and live the life of one of these types then that education investment is just noise relative to your total financial landscape.

    If indeed you land yourself at an Ivy for an undergrad or grad experience you can bet your bottom dollar that the value of the connections alone will far eclipse the cost of attendance unless you become mentally ill or criminally inclined in the interim. Bank that.
    Those are probably a limited number of institutional investors. If that's your cup of tea and you can get into an Ivy League school go for it. I'd be willing to bet for every Harvard grad that gets into that kind of work there are multiple grads that end up in careers that take a bit longer to get that kind of financial success. If you have an option to go to Harvard at $75k/year or University of Michigan on a good scholarship it would be a tough choice that may or may not pay off at Harvard. If you are of the ilk and you get into an Ivy League school I agree it would be worth the risk. You'll need to put in the effort to make it pay off though. It won't be automatic.

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