Resolution would eliminate names, locations of universities, colleges from ND Const

[Rockbear99]

Check enrollment figures for Devils Lake. The majority of students are online only. What's the purpose of a campus?

Police academy, wind technology, nursing, auto program, aircraft simulator repair. The dorms are full of students. Lake region has been doing more with less funding for many years. They are a quality school.

[CyPanth]

If I understand your post you are arguing for a technical school approach. While that may work in a number of fields IMO it is not applicable to all areas. The puirpose of a liberal arts education is to develop critical thinking skills and not to teach each and every nuance of a particular field. A good example of this is Pre-law or Pre-med programs.

I'm not convinced that the liberal arts ideal is actually happening on very many campuses. Probably more at small liberal arts colleges than major state universities. I think education in the liberal arts could be connected to in-service experiences with pre-law and pre-med programs too. The big university campus has become far too much of a place for extended adolescence.

[Hammersmith]

I like to play the exercise- if we designed a system from the ground up what would it look like? How would it compare to our current system.

I would only have one residential campus, maybe two, certainly not 11.

All of these schools think their Harvard or mit if they just got more funding from the state.

If you're going to be studying fulltime all week you can drive four hours to campus.

My exercise isn't ground up, but it tries to be a reworking of the whole thing given the existing infrastructure. I believe in specialization; pick a narrow field, but be damned good at it.

NDSU & UND stay mostly the same. Maybe trade some programs in a perfect world(say swap the NDSU health science programs for all of UND's engineering programs, or something like that). Strip most(90%) of the grad programs from the other campuses.

Dickinson becomes a liberal arts campus with an emphasis in natural & earth history and natural resources. Geology, anthropology, paleontology, etc. plus maybe a 4-year petroleum engineering program or the like. Make use of the nearby fossil beds, oil/coal/nat gas, and the only decently interesting geology in the state. Minot would be a duplicate of Dickinson except with a different focus. Maybe something in the humanities. Languages, poli-sci & international relations, perhaps. Maybe something more useful. Perfect world might be the law school, but I doubt that would fly.

Bismarck and Valley City become strictly 2-year prep schools for students that wouldn't do well going straight to the big 4-year schools, esp. NDSU & UND. High rigor, but small class sizes and more comprehensive student support. The two schools would work closely with the 4-year schools so that students would transition seamlessly.

Williston and Wahpeton become hard-core trade schools and drop the 'trying to be everything' mindset. Both have the same core sets of programs, but Williston focuses on natural resource tech(partners with Dickinson), while Wahpeton focuses on high-tech(partners with NDSU). I don't know what to do about NDSCS-Fargo. Leave it alone, fold it into NDSU, spin it off into a separate campus? All options have issues.

Devil's Lake becomes an outpost for limited classes where online just doesn't cut it. Four to nine week classes taught by instructors from other campuses. I'm thinking a limited welding class held every couple years, or a practical intro to health careers. Stuff like that where 75% of the coursework could be done online, but sometimes you just need to get your hands dirty. Maybe a dozen permanent staff, plus visiting instructors. One small dorm(not full time), one regular classroom building, one trades classroom building, one support building.

Bottineau becomes purely an outpost for NDSU forestry students to do short-term learning in ND's only forest. One dorm(only for a few weeks a year), one classroom building, maybe one building to handle everything else. Classes normally held during the summer for 4-6 weeks, and single weeks during winter break and spring break. Maybe a half dozen permanent staff to maintain the buildings and grounds.

Mayville is closed completely. It's just too close to NDSU, UND, VCSU & LRSC.



There, a plan that I'm sure has tons of holes and is completely impractical. You probably notice there are pairs of almost everything. Perfect world would be one of each. The pairs are a nod to the political reality of east vs west in the state.

[StL Bison Fan]

My exercise isn't ground up, but it tries to be a reworking of the whole thing given the existing infrastructure. I believe in specialization; pick a narrow field, but be damned good at it.

NDSU & UND stay mostly the same. Maybe trade some programs in a perfect world(say swap the NDSU health science programs for all of UND's engineering programs, or something like that). Strip most(90%) of the grad programs from the other campuses.

Dickinson becomes a liberal arts campus with an emphasis in natural & earth history and natural resources. Geology, anthropology, paleontology, etc. plus maybe a 4-year petroleum engineering program or the like. Make use of the nearby fossil beds, oil/coal/nat gas, and the only decently interesting geology in the state. Minot would be a duplicate of Dickinson except with a different focus. Maybe something in the humanities. Languages, poli-sci & international relations, perhaps. Maybe something more useful. Perfect world might be the law school, but I doubt that would fly.

Bismarck and Valley City become strictly 2-year prep schools for students that wouldn't do well going straight to the big 4-year schools, esp. NDSU & UND. High rigor, but small class sizes and more comprehensive student support. The two schools would work closely with the 4-year schools so that students would transition seamlessly.

Williston and Wahpeton become hard-core trade schools and drop the 'trying to be everything' mindset. Both have the same core sets of programs, but Williston focuses on natural resource tech(partners with Dickinson), while Wahpeton focuses on high-tech(partners with NDSU). I don't know what to do about NDSCS-Fargo. Leave it alone, fold it into NDSU, spin it off into a separate campus? All options have issues.

Devil's Lake becomes an outpost for limited classes where online just doesn't cut it. Four to nine week classes taught by instructors from other campuses. I'm thinking a limited welding class held every couple years, or a practical intro to health careers. Stuff like that where 75% of the coursework could be done online, but sometimes you just need to get your hands dirty. Maybe a dozen permanent staff, plus visiting instructors. One small dorm(not full time), one regular classroom building, one trades classroom building, one support building.

Bottineau becomes purely an outpost for NDSU forestry students to do short-term learning in ND's only forest. One dorm(only for a few weeks a year), one classroom building, maybe one building to handle everything else. Classes normally held during the summer for 4-6 weeks, and single weeks during winter break and spring break. Maybe a half dozen permanent staff to maintain the buildings and grounds.

Mayville is closed completely. It's just too close to NDSU, UND, VCSU & LRSC.



There, a plan that I'm sure has tons of holes and is completely impractical. You probably notice there are pairs of almost everything. Perfect world would be one of each. The pairs are a nod to the political reality of east vs west in the state.

Mayville really could close or if they want to fund it become private. When we visited the schoool, some classes had one student.
Valley City should stay a four year teachers college. Wahpeton is a gem and serves a great purpose.
Bottineau can close. It’s not NDs only forest but forestry is shifting to community forestry. Rural forestry is also becoming more specialized. That requires a four year degree.
Tree services and some cities hire less than four but regiures certifications. The forestry people that I know that went there and went on to get the four year at ndsu are retiring this year. The only guy I hire without being a certified is the guy who cuts down the trees. Don’t destroy anything or kill anyone and we are good.

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

If you were to build it from the ground up using 21st century logic, you’d have one research flagship and you’d put it in Fargo because it’s the biggest city closest to major industry (TC/Chicago). Under the same administrative umbrella, you’d put 4-years in Bismarck, Minot and GF.

Under a separate administrative heading, you'd put Tech/CC hubs in Williston, Dickinson and Wahpeton.

Then run it all from Bismarck on the 2 tiers. ND’s tech/ag growth will come from the east and resource extraction is based in the west. You have to accommodate this.

But hindsight is 20/20, as they say …

[nodak651]

If you were to build it from the ground up using 21st century logic, you’d have one research flagship and you’d put it in Fargo because it’s the biggest city closest to major industry (TC/Chicago). Under the same administrative umbrella, you’d put 4-years in Bismarck, Minot and GF.

Under a separate administrative heading, you'd put Tech/CC hubs in Williston, Dickinson and Wahpeton.

Then run it all from Bismarck on the 2 tiers. ND’s tech/ag growth will come from the east and resource extraction is based in the west. You have to accommodate this.

But hindsight is 20/20, as they say …

I'm a UND grad but I'd say flagship in Bismark. Grand Forks wouldn't need a 4 year being so close to Fargo. I think geography is important, but the location also depends on your goals. Attendance would prob be higher in Fargo, but I think a more centrally located flagship would better serve the state, as there would be easier access (distance) in more areas of the state.

[Vet70]

I'm a UND grad but I'd say flagship in Bismark. Grand Forks wouldn't need a 4 year being so close to Fargo. I think geography is important, but the location also depends on your goals. Attendance would prob be higher in Fargo, but I think a more centrally located flagship would better serve the state, as there would be easier access (distance) in more areas of the state.

Serving more people is more important. Worrying about the proximity of higher education to more locations and ease of access is what created this mess in the first place.

[nodak651]

Serving more people is more important. Worrying about the proximity of higher education to more locations and ease of access is what created this mess in the first place.

Which is more important, more people in general or more North Dakotans?

[Vet70]

Which is more important, more people in general or more North Dakotans?

False choice. Where are the other North Dakotans going to go? You would still have 4-year schools in Bismarck and Minot.

[Bison 4 Life]

Serving more people is more important. Worrying about the proximity of higher education to more locations and ease of access is what created this mess in the first place.

This. Very few "flagship" universities, at least in the places I've been, have been in the most geographically convenient place for everybody. Ohio State is likely best example. Modern transportation has all but eliminated this problem.

Go straight down I-29 and you'll see nearly every university on the eastern quarter of the state, closer to population centers.