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Thread: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

  1. #251
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    Default Re: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Chaos View Post
    In spite of the Joose incident and speculation about his handling of player injuries he has had a pretty remarkable career there. Keep in mind they were an average at best program in D2 and he's led the way transforming them into what is now a top 10, if not a top 5, FCS program. They're in a tough spot because they're only a couple hundred miles for the behemoth of the subdivision so compared to NDSU they and Stig may not look all that successful but, make no mistake about it, that is a solid program that he's built up from very little.
    Yep, he's had as much success there as almost any FCS coach at a place not named NDSU the past 8 years. I do think he was helped quite a bit by USD and UND dragging their feet in DII, that was the best thing that could have happened to NDSU and SDSU.

  2. #252
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    Default Re: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Chaos View Post
    Did you watch the replay? It's tough to tell from that gif but watching the replay it didn't look at all like a tackle to me. He hands were outside because Snyders shoulders were perpendicular to Ellefson's (if that makes sense) but he made contact with Snyder's shoulder with his chest and didn't grab or wrap with his arms. I think Snyder's awkward fall caused the flag. There were plenty of other borderline holding calls (for instance on Hendricks' on Strong's TD run) that weren't called. I stand by that it was a bad, and inconsistent, call.

    Now the holding call later in that drive on Conner.... that one was legit.
    When I saw it live I noticed that block and thought "uh-oh". When they said there was a flag I thought, "yep". When I saw the replay I thought, "well, it does appear he 'tackled' him but was it more like a pancake?" The GIF doesn't show enough of the action prior to Anderson getting there to determine anything. I would need to go back and look at the full reply to have a stronger opinion. But from what I saw there is definitely something there that could be holding. I just don't think it's a strong call. Based on that it's not accurate to call it a bad call. That would be something that simply didn't happen (i.e. the tipped pass on the DPI a couple years ago corrected by replay).

    When I use the term "bad call" it's semantics, and I understand why you use the term in a different context. You are also prejudiced by your fandome for the team who was called for the foul. That's completely understandable. When D1 officials are graded, there are several different designations. CC=correct call, CNC=correct no call, INC=incorrect no call, IC=incorrect call, MC=marginal call, TT=too technical. They are also assigned a number to communicate the gravity of the call. These are based entirely on the judgement of the grader which is also subjective (officials dispute their grades all the time but ultimately the grader has the final say). Based on what I saw I'm guessing this would be an IC or maybe MC. A CC would have a point value of 6 and a crew saver or unique call could get a 7. If you get a downgrade it would be given anything from 0 to 5 but usually a 0 or 3. At worst I would guess that gets a 3. There was definitely a restriction and the player was taken the to the ground at the point of attack where grandma in the top row of the stands can see it. But was it really a hold? Probably not and thus the minor downgrade.

    As for the one on Strong's TD, those are completely different situations. Receivers blocking in space like that is very different. He's never beat as the back approaches. The defender is holding his ground trying to determine which way the runner is going. Once the defender commits one way or the other it can turn into a hold but it's often all about the release by the blocker. More often than not the defender either picks the wrong direction or he picks so late he lost the block on his own and the runner clears the block. That's not a hold. It's probably the most common incorrect call I see high school officials make because they see some slight restriction and automatically think hold. The ones that are holds look different than that. As a fan I wouldn't expect you to be able to easily determine the difference, but I've seen thousands of those on film and have worked enough at wing to have seen several on the field. Someone who is working that position in the semi-final of FCS championship has seen that block 10s of thousands of times in person and on film so it's not that hard for them to distinguish as well. I don't think it applied in this case but another thing to look at is the feet of the defender. If he's going backward he's likely already lost the block and will get no benefit of the doubt when he tries to separate.

    So as a fan call that a bad call all you want. That's your perspective. I'm just explaining why in the scope of officiating and the powers that be, it's not "bad" even if it's incorrect.

  3. #253
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    Default Re: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Chaos View Post
    In spite of the Joose incident and speculation about his handling of player injuries he has had a pretty remarkable career there. Keep in mind they were an average at best program in D2 and he's led the way transforming them into what is now a top 10, if not a top 5, FCS program. They're in a tough spot because they're only a couple hundred miles for the behemoth of the subdivision so compared to NDSU they and Stig may not look all that successful but, make no mistake about it, that is a solid program that he's built up from very little.
    They actually used the term "storied career"....no doubt SDSU has been in the argument with JMU for second best team the last three years in the FCS, but they've also been blown out of the playoffs the last 3 years. Every single team he has coached has lost at least 3 games in a year, and 19 of 22 teams have lost 4+. They've won 2 conference championships in his 22 years. He's been a perfectly adequate coach....but longevity doesn't mean he's historically great.

    What is his biggest win? Last game of 2007 over then undefeated NDSU, probably?

  4. #254
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    Default Re: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

    Best Stig line from the presser: Stick is a competitor but he likes him anyway.
    The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
    Paul Fix
    .

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    Default Re: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyBison View Post
    When I saw it live I noticed that block and thought "uh-oh". When they said there was a flag I thought, "yep". When I saw the replay I thought, "well, it does appear he 'tackled' him but was it more like a pancake?" The GIF doesn't show enough of the action prior to Anderson getting there to determine anything. I would need to go back and look at the full reply to have a stronger opinion. But from what I saw there is definitely something there that could be holding. I just don't think it's a strong call. Based on that it's not accurate to call it a bad call. That would be something that simply didn't happen (i.e. the tipped pass on the DPI a couple years ago corrected by replay).

    When I use the term "bad call" it's semantics, and I understand why you use the term in a different context. You are also prejudiced by your fandome for the team who was called for the foul. That's completely understandable. When D1 officials are graded, there are several different designations. CC=correct call, CNC=correct no call, INC=incorrect no call, IC=incorrect call, MC=marginal call, TT=too technical. They are also assigned a number to communicate the gravity of the call. These are based entirely on the judgement of the grader which is also subjective (officials dispute their grades all the time but ultimately the grader has the final say). Based on what I saw I'm guessing this would be an IC or maybe MC. A CC would have a point value of 6 and a crew saver or unique call could get a 7. If you get a downgrade it would be given anything from 0 to 5 but usually a 0 or 3. At worst I would guess that gets a 3. There was definitely a restriction and the player was taken the to the ground at the point of attack where grandma in the top row of the stands can see it. But was it really a hold? Probably not and thus the minor downgrade.

    As for the one on Strong's TD, those are completely different situations. Receivers blocking in space like that is very different. He's never beat as the back approaches. The defender is holding his ground trying to determine which way the runner is going. Once the defender commits one way or the other it can turn into a hold but it's often all about the release by the blocker. More often than not the defender either picks the wrong direction or he picks so late he lost the block on his own and the runner clears the block. That's not a hold. It's probably the most common incorrect call I see high school officials make because they see some slight restriction and automatically think hold. The ones that are holds look different than that. As a fan I wouldn't expect you to be able to easily determine the difference, but I've seen thousands of those on film and have worked enough at wing to have seen several on the field. Someone who is working that position in the semi-final of FCS championship has seen that block 10s of thousands of times in person and on film so it's not that hard for them to distinguish as well. I don't think it applied in this case but another thing to look at is the feet of the defender. If he's going backward he's likely already lost the block and will get no benefit of the doubt when he tries to separate.

    So as a fan call that a bad call all you want. That's your perspective. I'm just explaining why in the scope of officiating and the powers that be, it's not "bad" even if it's incorrect.
    Understood and thanks for the explanation, that's interesting stuff to hear how they're graded. FWIW, I don't think either should've been called a hold so they got the one on the Strong run right and the one on the Bruce run wrong IMO but I'll be the first to admit that I'm biased.

  6. #256
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    Default Re: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by DM05 View Post
    They actually used the term "storied career"....no doubt SDSU has been in the argument with JMU for second best team the last three years in the FCS, but they've also been blown out of the playoffs the last 3 years. Every single team he has coached has lost at least 3 games in a year, and 19 of 22 teams have lost 4+. They've won 2 conference championships in his 22 years. He's been a perfectly adequate coach....but longevity doesn't mean he's historically great.

    What is his biggest win? Last game of 2007 over then undefeated NDSU, probably?
    As far as regular season I'd say either 2007 or 2016 over NDSU. I would be biased towards the playoffs and say their UNH or Kennesaw quarterfinal wins were the biggest wins overall but that's debatable.

    You can't really hold it against him that he's lost at least 3 games or not won very many conference championships. No team in NDSU's conference wins many conference championships and SDSU has been in the same conference as NDSU since the beginning of time. Almost every FCS program in the country would consider a 3 loss season a success especially when they're playing NDSU 1 or 2 times every year and then an FBS game usually on top of it.

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    Default Re: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

    With him they have a ceiling. It's higher than the DII days but it's clear that he'll never have a season with fewer than 2 losses and stay just on the bubble outside.

    There is some criticism of his "feel" for the game because he wasn't a player. That might not be entirely unfounded. He's a pretty good x and o but once they get off script, he's not instinctive, which is evidenced in their fast starts and then disjointed play as the game goes on.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Default Re: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

    Maybe posted somewhere and I did not see it. Who won the push up contest with Shepherd and Dudzik?
    "Sometimes a concept is baffling not because it is profound but because it is wrong" E. O. Wilson

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    Default Re: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Meaty View Post
    Maybe posted somewhere and I did not see it. Who won the push up contest with Shepherd and Dudzik?
    They're still going.

    Anyway, came to post that, holy cow, the first half was ragged. Second half was pretty good though.

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    Default Re: SDSU Post Game Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Meaty View Post
    Maybe posted somewhere and I did not see it. Who won the push up contest with Shepherd and Dudzik?
    Shep!

    https://twitter.com/MikeShep08/statu...01729903378432

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