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Thread: hAs rIcHmAn RuN tHiS pRoGrAm InTo ThE gRoUnD??

  1. #1151
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    Default Re: Has Richman Run this Program Into the Ground??

    Quote Originally Posted by CAS4127 View Post
    Should the Summit be an auto bid? I ask only because the same logic doesn’t seem to be applied by many here when it comes to FCS football playoff selection. “\/“?


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    Valid point. I personally did say non scholly conferences should not get an autobid. I think that is a clear distinction though regarding the resources committed to compete at a given divisional level.

    Otherwise I would say for a true playoff format all conferences in a given division should receive an autobid.

  2. #1152
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    Default Re: Has Richman Run this Program Into the Ground??

    Quote Originally Posted by EC8CH View Post
    Valid point. I personally did say non scholly conferences should not get an autobid. I think that is a clear distinction though regarding the resources committed to compete at a given divisional level.

    Otherwise I would say for a true playoff format all conferences in a given division should receive an autobid.
    So, as long as a program is spending similar money to others they should get a seat at the table? Maybe I’m confused ....


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  3. #1153
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    Default Re: Has Richman Run this Program Into the Ground??

    Quote Originally Posted by CAS4127 View Post
    So, as long as a program is spending similar money to others they should get a seat at the table? Maybe I’m confused ....


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    No. Some programs will always spend more than others. The non scholly conference in the FCS is just such an outlier. Absolutely they should be eligible for an at large bid, but granting an auto bid to a conference that doesn't follow they same scholarship limits to all the other conferences in their division doesn't make sense to me. That is one of the key differentiations between the NCAA football divisions.

  4. #1154
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    Default Re: Has Richman Run this Program Into the Ground??

    Quote Originally Posted by EC8CH View Post
    No. Some programs will always spend more than others. The non scholly conference in the FCS is just such an outlier. Absolutely they should be eligible for an at large bid, but granting an auto bid to a conference that doesn't follow they same scholarship limits to all the other conferences in their division doesn't make sense to me. That is one of the key differentiations between the NCAA football divisions.
    Gotcha, but doesn’t granting an auto-bid to a shit team who ends up somehow winning a conference tournament kinda belie the essence of finding a true champion?

    Strike that—the NCAA MBB tourney is about $$, not “cents”.


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  5. #1155
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    Default Re: Has Richman Run this Program Into the Ground??

    If NCAA MBB was about finding a true champ its playoff format would look more like the NBA. But that would be much less exciting and lucrative than the current format.

    As for the autobid...most years the Summit champ is pretty solid. Really only had a couple of weak teams get in since NDSU has joined.
    NDSU to the FBS always. In all ways.

  6. #1156
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    Default Re: Has Richman Run this Program Into the Ground??

    Quote Originally Posted by NDSUstudent View Post
    Still not really sold that the budget is this massive issue, we have put 100x more into MBB the past five years compared to the previous decade and what are we getting from it? Certaintly not as much as we were in the days of old decrepit BSA. People can point to little things like buy games and travel but some of the teams we are playing have the same issues. I doubt Stony Brook and UVU are spending massive amounts of money, it isn't like we are running through an ACC/Big 10 schedule. We have been unimpressive against our peers.

    This coaching staff needs to turn things around and they need to do it with quickness. Since we moved into the SHAC this is the team that has supposed to have it all and so far all I have heard is a lot of excuses and not much of anything else.
    Believe it or not both Stony Brook and Utah Valley outspend NDSU when it comes to men's basketball. Based on 2017 numbers, which is last year reported in the US Department of Education's database Stony Brook spent 2.276M, Utah Valley spent 1.635M, and NDSU spent 1.611M. NDSU is 6th out of 9 teams in the Summit League when it comes to MBB spending:

    1. Denver: 2,545,906
    2. ORU: 2,126,124
    3. SDSU: 1,991,489
    4. UND: 1,824,580
    5. USD: 1,685,107
    6. NDSU: 1,611,189
    7. Fort Wayne: 1,545,947
    8. Omaha: 1,244,937
    9. WIU: 1,212,286

    Obviously in the last 5 years NDSU's MBB program has had more success than any of those other Summit League schools other than SDSU (which I won't argue if you say they've had more success than SDSU as well). They've also had more success in the last 5 years than Utah Valley or Stony Brook as well (although Stony Brook has had a couple 22+ win seasons including an NCAA tournament berth in that time).

    I don't know anywhere that has MBB coaches salaries but I know that both Eric Henderson, in his first year of head coaching at any level, at SDSU and Todd Lee, in his 2nd year of head coaching at the D1 level, at USD make more than Richman does in his 6th year as NDSU's head coach.

    None of this excuses the lack of performance from this year's team and Richman should not get a pass this year because he's working with a smaller budget and a smaller salary than some of his peers but that's why I say you get what you pay for. NDSU has actually gotten a pretty good ROI over these last few years compared to other places that have spent as much or more. If Richman is let go I hope Larsen and the NDSU AD commits the pocketbooks to at least SDSU's level for the next head coaching hire. If not, we can bitch and moan all we want to about lack of results on the court but we're just hoping to catch lightning in a bottle with the right bargain bin coaching hire so I won't be all that surprised if there's no big turnaround. Again, you get what you pay for.

    Btw, all this spending information can be looked up at https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

  7. #1157
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    Default Re: Has Richman Run this Program Into the Ground??

    Quote Originally Posted by CAS4127 View Post
    Should the Summit be an auto bid? I ask only because the same logic doesn’t seem to be applied by many here when it comes to FCS football playoff selection. “\/“?


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    Every D1 BB team offers scholarships as far as I know so yes every conference deserves an auto bid IMO.

  8. #1158
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    Default Re: Has Richman Run this Program Into the Ground??

    Quote Originally Posted by CAS4127 View Post
    Gotcha, but doesn’t granting an auto-bid to a shit team who ends up somehow winning a conference tournament kinda belie the essence of finding a true champion?

    Strike that—the NCAA MBB tourney is about $$, not “cents”.


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    It does seem a bit odd that the Basketball autobids go out to teams that can just get hot for a few games in their conference tournament. It kind of diminishes the regular season. On the other hand, it definitely rewards teams that improve throughout their season and are strongest entering the NCAA tournament. I'd say the system has its pluses and minuses.

  9. #1159
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    Default Re: Has Richman Run this Program Into the Ground??

    The conference champs that don't win their tourney's get an NIT invite so there's that too. Multiple tourney's for BB compared to FB.

  10. #1160
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    Default Re: Has Richman Run this Program Into the Ground??

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Chaos View Post
    Believe it or not both Stony Brook and Utah Valley outspend NDSU when it comes to men's basketball. Based on 2017 numbers, which is last year reported in the US Department of Education's database Stony Brook spent 2.276M, Utah Valley spent 1.635M, and NDSU spent 1.611M. NDSU is 6th out of 9 teams in the Summit League when it comes to MBB spending:

    1. Denver: 2,545,906
    2. ORU: 2,126,124
    3. SDSU: 1,991,489
    4. UND: 1,824,580
    5. USD: 1,685,107
    6. NDSU: 1,611,189
    7. Fort Wayne: 1,545,947
    8. Omaha: 1,244,937
    9. WIU: 1,212,286

    Obviously in the last 5 years NDSU's MBB program has had more success than any of those other Summit League schools other than SDSU (which I won't argue if you say they've had more success than SDSU as well). They've also had more success in the last 5 years than Utah Valley or Stony Brook as well (although Stony Brook has had a couple 22+ win seasons including an NCAA tournament berth in that time).

    I don't know anywhere that has MBB coaches salaries but I know that both Eric Henderson, in his first year of head coaching at any level, at SDSU and Todd Lee, in his 2nd year of head coaching at the D1 level, at USD both make more than Richman does in his 6th year.

    None of this excuses the lack of performance from this year's team and Richman should not get a pass because he's working with a smaller budget and a smaller salary than some of his peers but that's why I say you get what you pay for. NDSU has actually gotten a pretty good ROI over these last few years compared to other places that have spent as much or more. If Richman is let go I hope Larsen and the NDSU AD commits the pocketbooks to at least SDSU's level for the next head coaching hire. If not, we can bitch and moan all we want to about lack of results on the court, but we're just hoping to catch lightning in a bottle with the right bargain bin coaching hire so I won't be all that surprised if there's no big turnaround. Again, you get what you pay for.

    Btw, all this spending information can be looked up at https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/
    I 100% agree that we should be paying our MBB coach more, at min $300k. That said we are in a Bubba situation where we have coach that is just good enough to stick around without needing any kind of raise because nobody else wants him.

    Sadly Richman wasn't even a budget hire, he was the guy everyone wanted and was given Saul's salary.
    NDSU to the FBS always. In all ways.

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