Indoor Practice Facility

[23Bison]

Math is hard I know...

Yep hence the “lol” at the end.

[totoinfl]

It's everything that is more expensive. Wood was not 300% more but 400% more, with the exception of roof trusses and floor joists which were about 250% more. Insane. Those numbers are starting to soften but they won't be getting down to the pre-inflation numbers.

I've heard (not hard research by me but rather just scuttlebutt from my jobsites) that one of the biggest parts of this problem is the actual shipping itself. Apparently, the online shopping industry is paying drivers very well and pulling them away from the kinds of shipping that makes our project work efficiently. Again, not sure if that is accurate but it makes sense to me that it could be a part of the problem. Perhaps future drone deliveries will help...

Regarding steel, the IPF is primarily a steel building. In fact, it looks to me like a modified pre-engineered steel structure with long span 3-hinge trusses...at least in one of the older renderings. I haven't worked on a pre-engineered steel building recently so I don't have any direct insight as to their cost increases but if the logic of steel trusses applies, the increases are significant.

One additional things that is happening is that the subcontractors are not signing guarantees on their material costs. Everything is now with a caveat that if the suppliers raise their prices, the sub will do the same. Nothing is guaranteed anymore, which is a very hard thing to manage during construction. We're advising our clients to hold a 15% construction contingency now, which is bonkers.

FYI - my information is the condition on the entire west coast. It generally costs a good deal more to build out here so I don't know exactly what would apply to a project in Fargo.

The price of PEX is more than double a year ago and here where we use a lot of concrete block to build, the price has jumped about 150%...if you can find them. Shortage of raw materials to make the blocks not to mention labor at the plant making them. The folks I know in the construction trades basically don't think we will see much relief until early 2022 at the soonest.

[Bisonator98]

It's everything that is more expensive. Wood was not 300% more but 400% more, with the exception of roof trusses and floor joists which were about 250% more. Insane. Those numbers are starting to soften but they won't be getting down to the pre-inflation numbers.

I've heard (not hard research by me but rather just scuttlebutt from my jobsites) that one of the biggest parts of this problem is the actual shipping itself. Apparently, the online shopping industry is paying drivers very well and pulling them away from the kinds of shipping that makes our project work efficiently. Again, not sure if that is accurate but it makes sense to me that it could be a part of the problem. Perhaps future drone deliveries will help...

Regarding steel, the IPF is primarily a steel building. In fact, it looks to me like a modified pre-engineered steel structure with long span 3-hinge trusses...at least in one of the older renderings. I haven't worked on a pre-engineered steel building recently so I don't have any direct insight as to their cost increases but if the logic of steel trusses applies, the increases are significant.

One additional things that is happening is that the subcontractors are not signing guarantees on their material costs. Everything is now with a caveat that if the suppliers raise their prices, the sub will do the same. Nothing is guaranteed anymore, which is a very hard thing to manage during construction. We're advising our clients to hold a 15% construction contingency now, which is bonkers.

FYI - my information is the condition on the entire west coast. It generally costs a good deal more to build out here so I don't know exactly what would apply to a project in Fargo.

Yep we are putting escalator clauses into our bids now too. Supply chains are crazy right now and getting anything has become a guessing game.

[tjbison]

Yep hence the “lol” at the end.

I too was being sarcastic

[23Bison]

I too was being sarcastic

Damn it! I’m usually pretty good at picking up on that. I’ll catch it next time.

[Hammerhead]

The price of PEX is more than double a year ago and here where we use a lot of concrete block to build, the price has jumped about 150%...if you can find them. Shortage of raw materials to make the blocks not to mention labor at the plant making them. The folks I know in the construction trades basically don't think we will see much relief until early 2022 at the soonest.

The supply chain issues give me an excuse not to buy a new Jeep for another year or two.

[tjbison]

Damn it! I’m usually pretty good at picking up on that. I’ll catch it next time.

Its ok, the sniffer might be damaged from the rona thread!

[1998braves64]

It's everything that is more expensive. Wood was not 300% more but 400% more, with the exception of roof trusses and floor joists which were about 250% more. Insane. Those numbers are starting to soften but they won't be getting down to the pre-inflation numbers.

I've heard (not hard research by me but rather just scuttlebutt from my jobsites) that one of the biggest parts of this problem is the actual shipping itself. Apparently, the online shopping industry is paying drivers very well and pulling them away from the kinds of shipping that makes our project work efficiently. Again, not sure if that is accurate but it makes sense to me that it could be a part of the problem. Perhaps future drone deliveries will help...

Regarding steel, the IPF is primarily a steel building. In fact, it looks to me like a modified pre-engineered steel structure with long span 3-hinge trusses...at least in one of the older renderings. I haven't worked on a pre-engineered steel building recently so I don't have any direct insight as to their cost increases but if the logic of steel trusses applies, the increases are significant.

One additional things that is happening is that the subcontractors are not signing guarantees on their material costs. Everything is now with a caveat that if the suppliers raise their prices, the sub will do the same. Nothing is guaranteed anymore, which is a very hard thing to manage during construction. We're advising our clients to hold a 15% construction contingency now, which is bonkers.

FYI - my information is the condition on the entire west coast. It generally costs a good deal more to build out here so I don't know exactly what would apply to a project in Fargo.

Yes logistics is just nuts. I had a load of raw steel I needed picked up ideally last week and delivered this week best quote my logistics guy got was $13,000 for a trip, actually doing later this week for $3500 or so I think it was sort of decided it wasn't worth $10,000 extra.

Raw steel material suppliers/warehouses aren't holding their prices and seems like every other week the mills come out with another price increase. Mill orders are out 16 weeks approximately then another 1-2 weeks for shipment because of shortage of trucking. Normally that time span is 6-9 weeks or so. Have to think preengineered buildings are going through the roof as they utilize plate steel and plate is going through the roof in costs more so than other shapes and heard rumors that they are essentially rationing it based on what you've purchased. Eventually these increases have to have a negative effect on construction.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[Gully]

They say the inflation is "transitory".....I wonder how long it can last and still be considered transitory. We'll see, I guess. Longer term it's an interesting debate on inflation vs. deflation. The fed sure seems to be trying their best to inflate but longer term demographics and technology are massive deflationary forces. I think it's likely we'll get more of what we're seeing now, spotty inflation is specific segments and asset price inflation (stocks, real estate, etc.) as people borrow cheap money to buy assets, waiting to sell it to a greater fool with even more, cheaper money. All the while, the CPI, PCE or whatever metric turns your crank will look fairly tame.

It's an interesting game and it's fun to play...until one day it all collapses like a house of cards.

[roadwarrior]

Kraus-Anderson applied for a building permit today for the indoor practice facility. Project cost = 26,391,166

Progress!