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Thread: NCAA Rules Survey

  1. #41
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    Default Re: NCAA Rules Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by bisonp View Post
    I don't disagree with that. The bottom line I guess is that they had examples and we have nothing but speculation to work with. We don't really know how dangerous it is or is not. I think everybody can agree it's a fairly rare play though, which means removing it isn't going to affect much. So while I don't want to see that rule put in place, it's not going to bother me either.

    It won't bother me until the refs fuck it up like they always do and decide a game by calling a penalty... And of course it's not going to be reviewable
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    Default Re: NCAA Rules Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by bisonp View Post
    I don't disagree with that. The bottom line I guess is that they had examples and we have nothing but speculation to work with. We don't really know how dangerous it is or is not. I think everybody can agree it's a fairly rare play though, which means removing it isn't going to affect much. So while I don't want to see that rule put in place, it's not going to bother me either.
    And just because it's on the survey doesn't mean it will pass. There are several potential changes there and I doubt more than half will pass. Another similar one I've heard discussed for a few years but isn't on the survey is the receiver who leaps high into the air and then gets taken out from behind. This is similarly dangerous to hurdling with the same potential results. The tricky part there is the foul is likely on the defender and not the receiver and that would be very difficult to create a rule preventing them from contacting the receiver in such a way they don't fall on their head. I know one of the considerations of any rules committee is ease of coaching and ease of officiating. The hurdling rule is easy to coach and easy to officiate if they pass it.

    The new rule last year that had to do with hurdling has a related history. There used to be a foul for a player on the defense who ran forward form more than a yard behind their line of scrimmage to leap to block the kick and then contact any player (teammate or opponent) on the way down. Enterprising linemen then took advantage of this and would move under said player after they leaped. The rule quickly changed to add an exception to not have it be a foul if that happened. That was the rule for several years until last year when team started leaping over the offensive line or jumping between players without making contact (thus not violating the previous rule) to get into the backfield to block the kick. The new leaping rule was made to prevent that, but they want so far to say the player more than a yard back can't run up and jump AT ALL. If you are going to jump you have to do it without running forward. By philosophy you allow a step to get some momentum, but that is it. I personally thought that went too far so I'm curious to see if they address it this year. As long as you don't land on anyone or jump over the pile there is no risk of injury. I had it happen a couple times last year so I just reminded the player of the new rule. Nobody complained about it.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: NCAA Rules Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyBison View Post
    And just because it's on the survey doesn't mean it will pass. There are several potential changes there and I doubt more than half will pass. Another similar one I've heard discussed for a few years but isn't on the survey is the receiver who leaps high into the air and then gets taken out from behind. This is similarly dangerous to hurdling with the same potential results. The tricky part there is the foul is likely on the defender and not the receiver and that would be very difficult to create a rule preventing them from contacting the receiver in such a way they don't fall on their head. I know one of the considerations of any rules committee is ease of coaching and ease of officiating. The hurdling rule is easy to coach and easy to officiate if they pass it.

    The new rule last year that had to do with hurdling has a related history. There used to be a foul for a player on the defense who ran forward form more than a yard behind their line of scrimmage to leap to block the kick and then contact any player (teammate or opponent) on the way down. Enterprising linemen then took advantage of this and would move under said player after they leaped. The rule quickly changed to add an exception to not have it be a foul if that happened. That was the rule for several years until last year when team started leaping over the offensive line or jumping between players without making contact (thus not violating the previous rule) to get into the backfield to block the kick. The new leaping rule was made to prevent that, but they want so far to say the player more than a yard back can't run up and jump AT ALL. If you are going to jump you have to do it without running forward. By philosophy you allow a step to get some momentum, but that is it. I personally thought that went too far so I'm curious to see if they address it this year. As long as you don't land on anyone or jump over the pile there is no risk of injury. I had it happen a couple times last year so I just reminded the player of the new rule. Nobody complained about it.
    That kind of makes sense. I just think these committees are like out government. They just do stuff for the sake of doing stuff so they can justify their existence
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    Default Re: NCAA Rules Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by HerdBot View Post
    That kind of makes sense. I just think these committees are like out government. They just do stuff for the sake of doing stuff so they can justify their existence
    I suppose. There are dozens of things that coaches, administrators, and officials (and probably fans) want to change, and this committee vets them and determines which will improve the game in some way. Not unlike our legislature.

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    Default Re: NCAA Rules Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyBison View Post
    Every sport at every level has tweaked their rules every year since the sport was invented. Forward passes used to be illegal. Sports evolve. They aren't changing rules just to change them.

    As for hurdling vs. diving, hurdling is a foul at every level except NCAA and even then only the runner is allowed to do it. An offensive player diving over an opponent is legal at every level. I thinks that's a clear distinction of the safety of one act over the other. Just because there are examples of players being able to do it without contacting an opponent, it is extremely dangerous. I have no idea if there is support for passing this change but it is clearly a safety issue and very different from diving.

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    I thought a runner hurdling a tackler was legal in the NFL - in fact, I thought it was legal at every level of football except for the youngest levels (HS and younger.)



    IMO, making hurdling a tackler illegal would be a horrendously bad rule. I can just see it being called on a back like Anderson who is simply jumping over a defender who has fallen in his gap.

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    Default Re: NCAA Rules Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by tony View Post
    I thought a runner hurdling a tackler was legal in the NFL - in fact, I thought it was legal at every level of football except for the youngest levels (HS and younger.)



    IMO, making hurdling a tackler illegal would be a horrendously bad rule. I can just see it being called on a back like Anderson who is simply jumping over a defender who has fallen in his gap.
    Based on other posts I've seen and the video above hurdling is legal in the NFL.

    The definition of hurdling says the player leads with his foot or knee (to distinguish from jumping head first over a pile) over an opponent who has nothing but his feet touching the ground. Jumping over a player on the ground or touching the ground with their hand is not hurdling by definition. All players at all levels may not hurdle an opponent. The exceptions as of now are runners in the NFL and NCAA. So 95% of the players are not allowed to hurdle because it's very dangerous for both the hurdler and and the player they are hurdling. You see videos of the players who complete a hurdle but don't get hurt. You don't see the ones where players do get hurt. Neither happens very often. I checked out the video above and I counted 11 possible hurdles and most of those were runners over defenders that went low but didn't appear to be touching the ground. The bulk of them were either head first dives, jumps to the side of the defender, or jumps over players with at least a knee on the ground. Those would all still be legal.

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    Default Re: NCAA Rules Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by tony View Post
    I thought a runner hurdling a tackler was legal in the NFL - in fact, I thought it was legal at every level of football except for the youngest levels (HS and younger.)



    IMO, making hurdling a tackler illegal would be a horrendously bad rule. I can just see it being called on a back like Anderson who is simply jumping over a defender who has fallen in his gap.
    And, this could be a challenge for referees.
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    Default Re: NCAA Rules Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by barnwintersportsengelstad View Post
    And, this could be a challenge for referees.
    Hurdling is pretty easy to see and rule. What do you feel would be challenging?

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    Default Re: NCAA Rules Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyBison View Post
    Hurdling is pretty easy to see and rule. What do you feel would be challenging?
    Did Carson hurdle the defender in the Iowa State game or did he just "jump" over a downed players?
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    Default Re: NCAA Rules Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Meaty View Post
    Did Carson hurdle the defender in the Iowa State game or did he just "jump" over a downed players?
    Definitions are critical in any rule book. Rule 2 is all definitions. The definition of hurdling is jumping over an opponent leading with your foot or knee (as opposed to diving over head first) and the opponent has nothing but his feet contacting the ground. I re-watched the play from the Iowa State game and the defender had a hand and knee on the ground so that's clearly not a hurdle.

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