NDSU vs JMU

[Professor Chaos]

I don’t know who’s going to win next week, but I do know what program sets the standard at the FCS level and the result of one game isn’t changing that.

It won't be one game that has changed it. It would be everything that happened from last December 16th until now that also contributes to it. No FCS program will ever equal what NDSU did from 2011-2015 (NDSU included) but going into 2018 the premier FCS football program will be the winner of this game on January 6th. That'll either be an NDSU program winner of 6 of the last 7 FCS championships and 96-8 during that time or a JMU program that is the back to back champs going 29-1 in that span and winners of their last 27 games. Both will obviously be the premier FCS programs regardless of this game but there can be only one #1.

[bisonaudit]

It won't be one game that has changed it. It would be everything that happened from last December 16th until now that also contributes to it. No FCS program will ever equal what NDSU did from 2011-2015 (NDSU included) but going into 2018 the premier FCS football program will be the winner of this game on January 6th. That'll either be an NDSU program winner of 6 of the last 7 FCS championships and 96-8 during that time or a JMU program that is the back to back champs going 29-1 in that span and winners of their last 27 games. Both will obviously be the premier FCS programs regardless of this game but there can be only one #1.

Disagree. From two 10-1 transition seasons to never losing an FCS playoff game to anyone but the eventual champ, through two coaching regimes over the last decade, NDSU is the premier program and 2 JSU titles aren’t changing that. JSU is very, very good and in just about any other circumstance I’d be on board with your assertion, but what NDSU is doing is unpresidented at this high a level.

[JMUSteeler]

I don't think I understand the debate. Clearly you are the gold standard of FCS programs, I said it once before but I'll ask again. Why do you spend so much time trying to convince yourself of what the rest of FCS already knows? Anyone who doesn't is either a moron OR a student/young alum with no perspective. When we won it all in '04, without playing a home game and winning 2 games in the final seconds by 1 point in the first 2 rounds, it felt more like lightning in a bottle than any sort of dynasty being formed. But, we thought our time had actually arrived. Then we missed the playoffs in '05, lost to YSU in the first round in '06, had App. St. beat in '07 but fumbled at the 5 yard line with 8 seconds left down 2 (yes, we should have ended their "dynasty" as well), lost in the semi in '08 to Montana at our place after our best player broke his leg and we fumbled 6 times. Then came the end of the Mickey Mathews era where we had great players but no offense, and the (thankfully) brief Withers era where we had lots of O, no D, and a bunch of GAs as coaches playing Madden football on our field every weekend. Suddenly we "feel" like we have a coaching staff that can bring it all together, we get it done in year one and have a chance in year 2, and to those of us who only wear purple & gold glasses it feels like we've finally achieved what we all thought we deserved.

JMU is not NDSU from 2011-2015, and I don't believe anyone else is going to be either (including NDSU part 2). We have a shot at 2 in a row, but like App. St. with 3 and NDSU with 5 to do any more than that is going to require a transition at QB. We were a great team last year on a roll, we're a really good team this year and still on a roll. Programs and dynasties happen when all the pieces are in place (recruiting, coaching, facilities, support, etc) and winning is just a by-product. Right now we've finally gotten the pieces in place, recruiting and facilities have never been the problem but coaching and support have been sketchy at times. Some writers, many with no real understanding of how difficult this really is, are looking for stories that might stir controversy or drive internet clicks. Some JMU fans have gotten ahead of themselves, and some NDSU fans don't seem to like having their position in the pecking order questioned. None of that changes the facts, and the facts are that until someone does it (or does it again) those 5 in a row is the greatest stretch in the history of the subdivision. I never thought anyone would top App. St. and their 3, certainly never thought I'd see 5.

[Professor Chaos]

Disagree. From two 10-1 transition seasons to never losing an FCS playoff game to anyone but the eventual champ, through two coaching regimes over the last decade, NDSU is the premier program and 2 JSU titles aren’t changing that. JSU is very, very good and in just about any other circumstance I’d be on board with your assertion, but what NDSU is doing is unpresidented at this high a level.

I don't think I understand the debate. Clearly you are the gold standard of FCS programs, I said it once before but I'll ask again. Why do you spend so much time trying to convince yourself of what the rest of FCS already knows? Anyone who doesn't is either a moron OR a student/young alum with no perspective. When we won it all in '04, without playing a home game and winning 2 games in the final seconds by 1 point in the first 2 rounds, it felt more like lightning in a bottle than any sort of dynasty being formed. But, we thought our time had actually arrived. Then we missed the playoffs in '05, lost to YSU in the first round in '06, had App. St. beat in '07 but fumbled at the 5 yard line with 8 seconds left down 2 (yes, we should have ended their "dynasty" as well), lost in the semi in '08 to Montana at our place after our best player broke his leg and we fumbled 6 times. Then came the end of the Mickey Mathews era where we had great players but no offense, and the (thankfully) brief Withers era where we had lots of O, no D, and a bunch of GAs as coaches playing Madden football on our field every weekend. Suddenly we "feel" like we have a coaching staff that can bring it all together, we get it done in year one and have a chance in year 2, and to those of us who only wear purple & gold glasses it feels like we've finally achieved what we all thought we deserved.

JMU is not NDSU from 2011-2015, and I don't believe anyone else is going to be either (including NDSU part 2). We have a shot at 2 in a row, but like App. St. with 3 and NDSU with 5 to do any more than that is going to require a transition at QB. We were a great team last year on a roll, we're a really good team this year and still on a roll. Programs and dynasties happen when all the pieces are in place (recruiting, coaching, facilities, support, etc) and winning is just a by-product. Right now we've finally gotten the pieces in place, recruiting and facilities have never been the problem but coaching and support have been sketchy at times. Some writers, many with no real understanding of how difficult this really is, are looking for stories that might stir controversy or drive internet clicks. Some JMU fans have gotten ahead of themselves, and some NDSU fans don't seem to like having their position in the pecking order questioned. None of that changes the facts, and the facts are that until someone does it (or does it again) those 5 in a row is the greatest stretch in the history of the subdivision. I never thought anyone would top App. St. and their 3, certainly never thought I'd see 5.

I don't think I'm actually disagreeing with either of you here. Like I said before NDSU, in their short time in D1, has done more as a program than JMU has even if they win this next game but if JMU takes their second straight title I'm saying that, currently, they've passed NDSU as the best program in the FCS. There's nothing wrong with that and that doesn't take anything away from the unprecedented run NDSU went on.

It would be similar to Clemson/Alabama in the FBS. Even though Clemson won last year Bama is still considered the best college football program in the nation by many but if Clemson beats Bama today and goes on to win another national title I think, likewise, you can make the claim that they've passed Bama as they program everyone is chasing. Anyone can do it once with a little magic but to come back the year after and do it again takes away any flukish doubts that there might be.

But I'm done arguing about it until after the game. Hopefully the Bison win and end any argument about where the balance of power lies in the FCS. It's just another talking point among many in what should be a great matchup until then anyway.

[NoDak]

It won't be one game that has changed it. It would be everything that happened from last December 16th until now that also contributes to it. No FCS program will ever equal what NDSU did from 2011-2015 (NDSU included) but going into 2018 the premier FCS football program will be the winner of this game on January 6th. That'll either be an NDSU program winner of 6 of the last 7 FCS championships and 96-8 during that time or a JMU program that is the back to back champs going 29-1 in that span and winners of their last 27 games. Both will obviously be the premier FCS programs regardless of this game but there can be only one #1.

Back when Tiger Woods was dominating golf he had an interview and someone asked him, "What do you think when people debate who the 'best golfer in the world is?' A few years ago it was between Tiger Woods and Vijay Singh. Before that it was between Tiger Woods and David Duval..." Tiger answered, "As long as I am in that conversation I feel pretty good."

Similar for NDSU. They have won 5 of the last 6 Championships. Have played in the last 8 Quarterfinal rounds and nearly won their first quarterfinal game. And after the game EWU said that NDSU was their toughest test. They lost in the semi-finals to JMU who went on to win the National Championship. They are back in the National Title game again. EVEN IF they don't win JMU will be seen as a great team but will not hold a candle to NDSU's run. DESPITE the fact that they would have beaten NDSU 2x in that playoff run.

To me what makes the NDSU program unique is how consistently they play at a high level. Teams have won back-to-back titles before. If NDSU wins on Saturday they will have won titles under 2 head coaches, 3 offensive coordinators, 2 defensive coordinators, 3 quarterbacks, 5-6 DIFFERENT players reaching 1000 yards rushing. All without failing to reach the semi-finals in the playoffs. To me next year's team will be more dominant than this years team was. DeLuca, Urzendowski, Kuhnert, and Tanguay etc. are very good to be sure. But they are returning Stick, Anderson, Brooks, Wilson, Sheppard, on offense and on defense they are returning plenty as well (as well as getting Greg Menard back).

As long as NDSU stays in the conversation about greatest program ever it doesn't matter to me who is on the other side of the debate.

[NoDak]

I don't think I'm actually disagreeing with either of you here. Like I said before NDSU, in their short time in D1, has done more as a program than JMU has even if they win this next game but if JMU takes their second straight title I'm saying that, currently, they've passed NDSU as the best program in the FCS. There's nothing wrong with that and that doesn't take anything away from the unprecedented run NDSU went on.

It would be similar to Clemson/Alabama in the FBS. Even though Clemson won last year Bama is still considered the best college football program in the nation by many but if Clemson beats Bama today and goes on to win another national title I think, likewise, you can make the claim that they've passed Bama as they program everyone is chasing. Anyone can do it once with a little magic but to come back the year after and do it again takes away any flukish doubts that there might be.

But I'm done arguing about it until after the game. Hopefully the Bison win and end any argument about where the balance of power lies in the FCS. It's just another talking point among many in what should be a great matchup until then anyway.

To me it is what Bama has done over the last decade that makes them the best program in FBS. Clemson has a goo TEAM and good teams will win championships. But even if Clemson wins today the signs in the stands next year will still say, "We want 'Bama" To me that is the difference between having a great TEAM and having a great PROGRAM. As I outlined above, it is NDSU's run of success over the last 7 years, not just their 5 titles, that makes them the premiere program in FCS.

[BisonAccountant44]

Similar for NDSU. They have won 5 of the last 6 Championships. Have played in the last 8 Quarterfinal rounds and nearly won their first quarterfinal game. And after the game EWU said that NDSU was their toughest test. They went on to win the National Championship.

FYP


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[semobison]

What the Bison have done this decade is unprecedented but in FCS football when you get knocked off the throne you are, well...off the throne. This game is a BFD! It is about revenge, redemption, continuation of a dynasty. In FCS football there is only one reigning champion. If JMU wins they have bragging rights again...for now. If the Bison win the dynasty is alive and well. This is a big game until it all starts over again next year. Nobody forgets a program who wins five in a row but they will also remember the team that knocked them off the throne, especially if it is done twice!

[Bison"FANatic"]

3 D coordinators

[JMUSteeler]

I don't think I'm actually disagreeing with either of you here. Like I said before NDSU, in their short time in D1, has done more as a program than JMU has even if they win this next game but if JMU takes their second straight title I'm saying that, currently, they've passed NDSU as the best program in the FCS. There's nothing wrong with that and that doesn't take anything away from the unprecedented run NDSU went on.

It would be similar to Clemson/Alabama in the FBS. Even though Clemson won last year Bama is still considered the best college football program in the nation by many but if Clemson beats Bama today and goes on to win another national title I think, likewise, you can make the claim that they've passed Bama as they program everyone is chasing. Anyone can do it once with a little magic but to come back the year after and do it again takes away any flukish doubts that there might be.

But I'm done arguing about it until after the game. Hopefully the Bison win and end any argument about where the balance of power lies in the FCS. It's just another talking point among many in what should be a great matchup until then anyway.

True, the whole conversation is moot if JMU doesn't win 1/6. I'm confident we'll show up, beyond that we'll see how it plays out.