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Thread: 2018 Recruits

  1. #41
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    Default Re: 2018 Recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Lips View Post
    As I remember, this years senior class was part of the #2 recruiting class in the nation. What happened? I think we need to Send Kish to Bono's coaches clinic in October with a pen and paper.

    1). How to recruit top wrestlers- All the top HS wrestlers are in Fargo each July.
    2). Wrestler retention- All programs lose kids but there is no reason we should lose as many kids as we do.
    3). Why can't we fill the line up with division 1 starting quality wrestlers.
    4). Why is it that SDSU has more fans at our home meet when they come to town than we do? There are 200,000 people in the Fargo metro area and 20,000 people in Brookings.
    5). Why is it that SDSU wrestlers would run through a brick wall for Bono and NDSU wrestlers would all get together and push the wall on top of Kish!
    6). Why don't graduates stay with the program in various roles. Hayden Zillmer, Josh Rodriguez?
    IMO:
    1. I can't tell you how many coaches I've seen and talked to every July. Most programs are represented at the tournament, and yeah it isn't a home event for them, but Kish doesn't really have a huge leg up on most other coaches when it comes to the Fargo tourney. The new wrestling room is much nicer, but I doubt it is ever going to convince top kids to come here. For sustained success the key has to be targeting lesser known kids with room to grow and then building them up on campus. I think we are slipping in MN though, and I hate that. The coaching staff needs to do what they can to establish a pipeline to the Pinnacle wrestling club. It is one of the top clubs in the country and SDSU is starting to pull kids from them.
    2. I think we're getting better at keeping guys around. I used to get heartburn over losing the Lehman's and Rylee Streifel, but it has worked out.
    3. Only 9.9 scholarships to fill a 10 man starting lineup, get quality depth, and get freshmen. It's even tougher as a mid major type program. We do need to do a better job of development with the guys we bring in, but only Ohio State and maybe Penn State will have 10 NCAA qualifiers this year.
    4. I don't know. This is a huge advantage for SDSU. Bring a recruit to one of our duals and they'll get bored. Bring one to their duals and they'll be eager to sign. I'd like to see NDSU replace Vettel as announcer, try to emulate some of SDSU's unique seating that allows fans to be matside, and lower the price to duals. I have friends who don't go to duals because Vettel is that bad at times. Talking over the action, mispronouncing name after name, trying to guide the action but throwing in mistake after mistake. SDSU's seating creates great atmosphere with the entire mat surrounded by hostile fans just feet away. On pricing, I'll go regardless, but with the lack of atmosphere, it is often better to stay home and watch it for free on BEK. For some duals, the BBF would be a better venue. SDSU has done a tremendous job cultivating a relationship with FloWrestling too. Flo is constantly talking up SDSU (mainly because it benefits Flo to do so, since they have a business relationship) and recruits are constantly exposed to their program. I find some of the Flo guys obnoxious, but that is the source for amateur wrestling. They have MMA stars like Daniel Cormier and Ben Askren interacting with the Flo brand and Flo has access to all the top recruits. Coach Garnett seems to interact with Flo a decent amount and is doing his part to promote the brand with various wrestling media outlets.
    5. I don't know if that is accurate. It may be, I just don't know.
    6. They are still wrestling competitively and that isn't feasible at the senior level in Fargo without massive fundraising to get new athletes to come in and wrestle for the Bison Wrestling Club. Decent chance both guys make an appearance in the top 20 worldwide freestyle rankings soon and Hayden is the odds on favorite to represent the USA in Tokyo in 2020 in Greco Roman wrestling. The fact that NDSU boasts Hayden, Josh, and Kallen Kleinschmidt as grads and the success they've had at the senior level is impressive.

    The #2 ranking was by 1 publication and never seemed that accurate. Other publications had it around #20. High school talent in wrestling has come a lonnnnnnng way in the last 5 years and so has evaluating recruiting classes.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    Default Re: 2018 Recruits

    1. If the wrestler and their family are across the street from your campus, you have an advantage over anyone.
    2. The Leymans were a huge loss if Kish could have developed them.
    3. Nobody gets more than 9.9. The scholarships need to be managed better.
    4. In order to increase attendance, you need to put a winning dual team on the mat. People come to watch a winner. People do not come to see a couple stars and have the team go 2-8 or 3-7 that night. They want to see the team win.
    5. It is accurate.
    6. What would it take to get some top level grads to come and train here.

  3. #43
    Join Date
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    Default Re: 2018 Recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Lips View Post
    1. If the wrestler and their family are across the street from your campus, you have an advantage over anyone.
    2. The Leymans were a huge loss if Kish could have developed them.
    3. Nobody gets more than 9.9. The scholarships need to be managed better.
    4. In order to increase attendance, you need to put a winning dual team on the mat. People come to watch a winner. People do not come to see a couple stars and have the team go 2-8 or 3-7 that night. They want to see the team win.
    5. It is accurate.
    6. What would it take to get some top level grads to come and train here.
    I would have to disagree with you on several points here.

    Point #1 - I would say the Bison Coaches are at a greater Disadvantage since they are also assisting in facilitating the entire tournament. They do not have the luxury of just showing up and talking to kids at their leisure. They open and monitor the practice facilities and setup the mats and address any issues that may occur on campus. Additionally most State Teams stay off campus and the student athletes are at the schedule of their coaches and team directors for their schedule. If one of the coaches then offered a ride to take the athlete back this could be considered an "Official Visit". Lastly I would estimate that less than 10% of wrestlers families actually attend the tournament, therefore no interaction with their families.

    Point #2 - No disrespect intended here to the Leymans but I wouldn't say that this was a huge loss when you look at their collegiate accomplishments. They like a lot of other athletes just didn't transition well to the college level. Their stint at Nebraska was less than spectacular and I don't think too many would argue that Mark Manning doesn't have the ability to train wrestlers to achieve at the next level. This right here is the big issue with all coaches when recruiting kids out of high school, will they develop or have they peaked already? It's a risk that sometimes pays off and sometimes doesn't.

    Point #3 - "Nobody gets more than 9.9", not entirely true. You have the academy's that have a very selective entrance requirements and do not utilize scholarships. There are also several Private Colleges & Universities that do not scholarship athletes as well, such as the vast majority of Ivy League Schools. They instead offer "Educational Grants" based on the financial need of the incoming student. Given these schools are exceptions but then you have the Penn States of the world with the loop holes they seemingly have found that allow them to lets say "augment" an athletes ability to pay out of state tuition if they are not on scholarship. (you can search this one out yourself if interested). Lastly how would you propose the coaches in your words "manage" the scholarships better? As a parent I know the cost of admission/tuition, I know the cost of books/labs, and of course the cost of food/housing. What are you going to tell me to convince me that my athlete should take less money for the betterment of the team? I'm not trying to be disrespectful here but it's easy for you to just throw this kind of stuff out there but you don't throw out any solutions to solve the greater issue which is the total out of pocket cost that a parent will have to absorb.

    Point #4 - Attendance, if you are comparing the attendance with SDSU, they actually were drawing pretty good crowds prior to this season when they weren't winning duals regularly. It's a commitment to the athletes and coaches by their fans to support and help build the program. I hate to say it but they have done a very good job in developing and building a brand and their fans have bought into it. I don't think cost is really a factor, I traveled this year to just about every dual and away tournament and I can tell you that Purdue & Northern IL for two schools don't even charge admissions to wrestling and yet they still don't draw a crowd. Given NIU is terrible but Purdue isn't that bad.

    Point #5 - Running through a wall for Bono vs pushing the wall on Kish. That might be the most uneducated thing you have typed on here. Have you ever talked to the wrestlers on NDSU to see if that is the case? I talked to them all the time and I can tell you that is not the case. As far as Coach Bono, you are correct in that there are some of his wrestlers that would do that for him but ask Cam Sykora if that was the case for him when he was at SDSU? Ask the twins (sorry their names escape me) that just left SDSU if that was the case for them as well. Bottom line is this, relationships between athletes and coaches go back and forth all the time, some days they love each other and some days they would just as soon never see each other again. Don't come on here making a statement like this and try to stir up crap that doesn't exist.

    Point #6 - This one is easy. Three things 1) Money 2) Training Partners & 3) Money. Look it cost to travel to these overseas events and an even events within the US. These athletes also need money to live on. If you don't have the funds coming into to your wrestling club which supports these athletes when they leave college then they have to relocate to somewhere were they can be supported.

    Sorry I forgot to address the Top Recruiting Class Issue. Take a look at the Roster and tell me what you see for the Senior Class. I'll save you some time because I am getting older and more impatient. 1) Look specifically at 149, there are three talented wrestlers stacked up right here at this one weight in Gliva, Bengston and Friedman. Last I checked we weren't in the NAIA and can only take one wrestler at this weight to a qualifying tournament or nationals. 2) There were a few wrestlers that unfortunately were injured along the way and their collegiate careers were cut short and 3) Some just didn't pan out unfortunately.
    Last edited by Gladiator Dad; 03-07-2018 at 02:42 PM.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Colorado Springs, CO
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    10,744

    Default Re: 2018 Recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Lips View Post
    As I remember, this years senior class was part of the #2 recruiting class in the nation. What happened? I think we need to Send Kish to Bono's coaches clinic in October with a pen and paper.

    1). How to recruit top wrestlers- All the top HS wrestlers are in Fargo each July.
    2). Wrestler retention- All programs lose kids but there is no reason we should lose as many kids as we do.
    3). Why can't we fill the line up with division 1 starting quality wrestlers.
    4). Why is it that SDSU has more fans at our home meet when they come to town than we do? There are 200,000 people in the Fargo metro area and 20,000 people in Brookings.
    5). Why is it that SDSU wrestlers would run through a brick wall for Bono and NDSU wrestlers would all get together and push the wall on top of Kish!
    6). Why don't graduates stay with the program in various roles. Hayden Zillmer, Josh Rodriguez?
    They had the #4 Ranked Recruiting Class during the 2012 Season by Amateur Wrestling News, which later changed to #2 after the season (http://gobison.com/news/2013/6/14/WR...path=wrestling)

    I'm not sure what happened with that class, but based on the breakdown of the Top-10 teams in 2013, they had many wrestlers listed on those teams that also didn't pan-out too well (http://news.theopenmat.com/blog/2013...class-of-2013/).

    Here's the list of NDSU's recruits from that class:

    1) Mitch Bengston: NDSU (completing fifth year) - http://gobison.com/roster.aspx?rp_id...path=wrestling

    2) Tommy Petersen: NDSU (two years) - http://gobison.com/roster.aspx?rp_id...path=wrestling

    3) Preston Lehmann: NDSU (one year) - http://gobison.com/roster.aspx?rp_id...path=wrestling
    Nebraska (two years) - http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.d...CLID=209868530
    MSU-Moorhead (completing second year) - http://msumdragons.com/roster.aspx?r...path=wrestling

    4) Clay Ream: NDSU (completing fifth year) - http://gobison.com/roster.aspx?rp_id...path=wrestling

    5) Justin LaValle: NDSU (was listed as part of the 2013 Recruiting Class after transferring from Old Dominion for one year) - http://gobison.com/roster.aspx?rp_id...path=wrestling
    Old Dominion (three years) - http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle...B_OEM_ID=31100

    6) Kyle Gliva: NDSU (completing fifth year) - http://gobison.com/roster.aspx?rp_id...path=wrestling

    7) Tirso Lara: NDSU (completing fourth year) - http://gobison.com/roster.aspx?rp_id...path=wrestling
    Hail the BISON!!!

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    14

    Default Re: 2018 Recruits

    8) Tom Walton

    9) Grant Nehring

    10) Cole Sladek

    11) Jared Nieland

    Coach Kish needs listen to Tom Ryan's interview. He needs to build some community in Fargo. He needs to show his guys he cares about them. Coach Ryan even gives his guys a hug every now and again. They are 19-1 in the tournament right now. The guys want to win for him and get those bonus points for the team.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: 2018 Recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Lips View Post
    8) Tom Walton

    9) Grant Nehring

    10) Cole Sladek

    11) Jared Nieland

    Coach Kish needs listen to Tom Ryan's interview. He needs to build some community in Fargo. He needs to show his guys he cares about them. Coach Ryan even gives his guys a hug every now and again. They are 19-1 in the tournament right now. The guys want to win for him and get those bonus points for the team.
    Just don't touch Snyder after he wrestles. Can't wait for Coon vs Snyder.


    Lardsin must go!

  7. #47
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    Mar 2014
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    Default Re: 2018 Recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Lips View Post
    8) Tom Walton

    9) Grant Nehring

    10) Cole Sladek

    11) Jared Nieland

    Coach Kish needs listen to Tom Ryan's interview. He needs to build some community in Fargo. He needs to show his guys he cares about them. Coach Ryan even gives his guys a hug every now and again. They are 19-1 in the tournament right now. The guys want to win for him and get those bonus points for the team.
    Not to be a contrarian, but the talent level difference that Ohio State gets compared to NDSU in wrestling is pretty big and the main reason why they are so much better. We're aiming for guys that hopefully can be developed into NCAA All-Americans. Every Ohio State recruit is expected to be an All-American sometime in their career. Plus, they get guys that not only compete at the World-level, but also can win it.

    The addition of the Ohio State RTC was huge for their program. It will be interesting to see how the RTC affects the college recruiting now that its former coach, Lou Rosselli, moved on to Oklahoma.
    Hail the BISON!!!

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    14

    Default Re: 2018 Recruits

    Were all 3 of these seniors certified at 49 and Ream at 57? Sounds like poor planning to me. Is this Kisch's full time job or does he pick beats in the fall. How long did he know that there may be a concern at 41 and the team might want some help there. Maybe next year he should put things on paper or plan out a depth chart. I think this year they were a little heavy at 49 and thin in a few weights. Next year we will be heavy at 25 and HWT and thin at a few others. This is not the NFL draft where you can trade, you don't go after the best player on the board. You need to recruit in areas that your team needs help. Use scholarship money wisely and do not overspend a weight.
    Last edited by Loose Lips; 03-19-2018 at 01:45 AM.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Bloomington, MN
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    994

    Default Re: 2018 Recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Lips View Post
    Were all 3 of these seniors certified at 49 and Ream at 57? Sounds like poor planning to me. Is this Kisch's full time job or does he pick beats in the fall. How long did he know that there may be a concern at 41 and the team might want some help there. Maybe next year he should put things on paper or plan out a depth chart. I think this year they were a little heavy at 49 and thin in a few weights. Next year we will be heavy at 25 and HWT and thin at a few others. This is not the NFL draft where you can trade, you don't go after the best player on the board. You need to recruit in areas that your team needs help. Use scholarship money wisely and do not overspend a weight.
    I have to believe that Bengtson was the plan at 141. I'm guessing that he just couldn't get certified down there this year. We would have been pretty solid through 165 if that panned out.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    Default Re: 2018 Recruits

    That makes sense to me. When did Kish find out he could not get certified there?

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