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Thread: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

  1. #21
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    Default Re: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

    Quote Originally Posted by wcb_sas View Post
    What does this add? More TV's more regional coverage? The SF market? No on all accounts.

    Why not go after Mankato or St. Cloud? At least they are bigger markets closer the Twin Cities.
    I do agree that Augie makes zero sense for the league. Mankato is really the only non-DI I like, since they've had the stronger basketball program in the NSIC.
    NDSU to the FBS always. In all ways.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

    Quote Originally Posted by wcb_sas View Post
    I would press MVC hard ... maybe even up to a take us or we leave MVC Football.
    ABSOLUTELY. worse case our Football team can do an affiliate in mountain west mac or sun belt.
    NDSU TO FBS. HAVEN'T WE WON ENOUGH?

  3. #23
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    Default Re: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

    Quote Originally Posted by NDSUstudent View Post
    I do agree that Augie makes zero sense for the league. Mankato is really the only non-DI I like, since they've had the stronger basketball program in the NSIC.
    Augustana won the National Championship in 2016 and beat the Iowa Hawkeyes in 2015. They are unquestionably the class of that league. As for Mankato, they aren't even the strongest Minnesota State in the NSIC.
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardite View Post
    Augustana won the National Championship in 2016 and beat the Iowa Hawkeyes in 2015. They are unquestionably the class of that league. As for Mankato, they aren't even the strongest Minnesota State in the NSIC.
    To me neither would be able to compete well enough in the Summit. Do not bring in a bottom feeder just to bring on in. Yes Auggie won the title and are very good but are they DI caliber????
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Meaty View Post
    To me neither would be able to compete well enough in the Summit. Do not bring in a bottom feeder just to bring on in. Yes Auggie won the title and are very good but are they DI caliber????
    In basketball, without question yes. They would compete for the Summit League title right away. This is the same elitist dismissal NDSU football gets in ignorant FBS circles because of the letters "FCS."
    Van Club - Secretary of Agriculture (Barley & hops expert)

  6. #26
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    Default Re: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

    Quote Originally Posted by wcb_sas View Post
    What does this add? More TV's more regional coverage? The SF market? No on all accounts.

    Why not go after Mankato or St. Cloud? At least they are bigger markets closer the Twin Cities.
    I know I posted some thoughts/info on this issue a few days ago in a different thread, so I'm trying not to be redundant, but I have a question I'm asking specifically to better understand your perspective. Isn't the issue at hand less a matter of "who makes the most sense" and more a matter of "who is the most realistic possibility at this point in time?"

    For example, I recognize that Mankato has a lot of appeal, but Mankato has made absolutely no indication that they're even interested in going D1, and St. Cloud certainly doesn't have the budget for it unless they cut football. At this point, Augie is the only school in that list of three that has an athletic director saying, "Yeah, we're at least talking discussing it and seeing what's possible" (to paraphrase).

    I mean, Summit fans could come on here and say Duke and North Carolina would be great additions to the Summit League, but in terms of realistic possibilities, I'd say it's not likely to happen. I feel like that's the situation you're facing right now if your options are Mankato, Augie, and St. Cloud. From my understanding of the D2 landscape, St. Cloud and Mankato are substantially less realistic options as is stands, today, than Augie, even if Augie would come in and be less impressive than you'd like out of the gate.

    Like I said, I understand the appeal of a more Twin Cities-focused school being involved, particularly from a financial perspective. I'm just curious about whether or not you think either option is plausible, or if you're just indicating they'd be more ideal than the only option that appears to be plausible in the near future (meaning Augustana).

    At the same time, Glen Taylor might call Mankato's athletic director tomorrow and say, "Here's $10 million, get rid of football and jump to the Summit League" and Mankato might be holding a press conference on Monday to announce the big move. I'm just basing these thoughts on what I understand about all three programs in their current status.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardite View Post
    In basketball, without question yes. They would compete for the Summit League title right away. This is the same elitist dismissal NDSU football gets in ignorant FBS circles because of the letters "FCS."
    Disagree - Augustana due to endowment is able to support more full scholarships in Bball than most other NSIC teams. So they're able to attract more scholarship players than say Mankato or Moorhead. At D1 they would be required to have full scholarships as would everyone else. No advantage.

    Your opinion of Augustana as a dominant basketball program is inflated - Conference record over the last 5 years has Moorhead as #1 with 85 wins 77.3% - with Augustana second at 84 wins 76.4% followed by Mankato with 83 wins 75.5%. Over the 5 years they've only had the best record once in those 5 years. They've been a good steady upper third of the conference but not consistently better than others.

    Mankato has a nice facility ... close to the Twin Cities, good football program and D1 hockey. St. Cloud has those same things.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    I know I posted some thoughts/info on this issue a few days ago in a different thread, so I'm trying not to be redundant, but I have a question I'm asking specifically to better understand your perspective. Isn't the issue at hand less a matter of "who makes the most sense" and more a matter of "who is the most realistic possibility at this point in time?"

    For example, I recognize that Mankato has a lot of appeal, but Mankato has made absolutely no indication that they're even interested in going D1, and St. Cloud certainly doesn't have the budget for it unless they cut football. At this point, Augie is the only school in that list of three that has an athletic director saying, "Yeah, we're at least talking discussing it and seeing what's possible" (to paraphrase).

    I mean, Summit fans could come on here and say Duke and North Carolina would be great additions to the Summit League, but in terms of realistic possibilities, I'd say it's not likely to happen. I feel like that's the situation you're facing right now if your options are Mankato, Augie, and St. Cloud. From my understanding of the D2 landscape, St. Cloud and Mankato are substantially less realistic options as is stands, today, than Augie, even if Augie would come in and be less impressive than you'd like out of the gate.

    Like I said, I understand the appeal of a more Twin Cities-focused school being involved, particularly from a financial perspective. I'm just curious about whether or not you think either option is plausible, or if you're just indicating they'd be more ideal than the only option that appears to be plausible in the near future (meaning Augustana).

    At the same time, Glen Taylor might call Mankato's athletic director tomorrow and say, "Here's $10 million, get rid of football and jump to the Summit League" and Mankato might be holding a press conference on Monday to announce the big move. I'm just basing these thoughts on what I understand about all three programs in their current status.
    I think these lower tier D1 conferences have a lot of different concerns
    - travel, is the city easy/hard to get into for conference members?
    - attendance, does the region/area/city support the school with decent attendance numbers?
    - location to metropolitan areas, I think that is why Omaha was a slam dunk - bigger city more sponsorships, attendance, travel
    - does adding the school negatively affect other programs? Does adding a SFalls school help or hurt other Summit teams?
    - If Mankato, St. Cloud and UND joined, could the Summit ever consider a hockey conference? Potential revenues ...
    - Football is a big driver - both positive and negative
    - Makeup of the conference, aside from Oral Roberts - conference is a bunch of public schools - might have an impact.

    I think Augustana is an out-of-the-box consideration. Not sure it fits the conferences profile.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

    Quote Originally Posted by wcb_sas View Post
    Disagree - Augustana due to endowment is able to support more full scholarships in Bball than most other NSIC teams. So they're able to attract more scholarship players than say Mankato or Moorhead. At D1 they would be required to have full scholarships as would everyone else. No advantage.

    Your opinion of Augustana as a dominant basketball program is inflated - Conference record over the last 5 years has Moorhead as #1 with 85 wins 77.3% - with Augustana second at 84 wins 76.4% followed by Mankato with 83 wins 75.5%. Over the 5 years they've only had the best record once in those 5 years. They've been a good steady upper third of the conference but not consistently better than others.

    Mankato has a nice facility ... close to the Twin Cities, good football program and D1 hockey. St. Cloud has those same things.
    Moorhead is currently at the scholarship max in men's basketball: http://www.inforum.com/sports/429198...n-ii-standards

    For example, the Dragons have men's basketball, track and cross country and wrestling. The combined Division II limit for all those sports is 31.6 scholarships. Therefore, MSUM could offer 21 equivalencies in all those sports. Those scholarships, however, didn't need to be equally distributed sport-by-sport.

    The Dragons offered 10 of those equivalencies in men's basketball, which is the Division II max. They also allocated 5.5 for wrestling and 5.5 in men's track and field and cross country to get to that 21 maximum under current league rules.
    So unless I'm misunderstanding your point, I don't think Augie has any certain advantage there. Almost positive Mankato is at the D2 max as well.
    Last edited by MrAugustana; 07-06-2017 at 09:12 PM. Reason: added bolding for clarity

  10. #30
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    Default Re: IUPUI out of Summit league, who's next in??

    Quote Originally Posted by wcb_sas View Post
    I think these lower tier D1 conferences have a lot of different concerns
    - travel, is the city easy/hard to get into for conference members?
    - attendance, does the region/area/city support the school with decent attendance numbers?
    - location to metropolitan areas, I think that is why Omaha was a slam dunk - bigger city more sponsorships, attendance, travel
    - does adding the school negatively affect other programs? Does adding a SFalls school help or hurt other Summit teams?
    - If Mankato, St. Cloud and UND joined, could the Summit ever consider a hockey conference? Potential revenues ...
    - Football is a big driver - both positive and negative
    - Makeup of the conference, aside from Oral Roberts - conference is a bunch of public schools - might have an impact.

    I think Augustana is an out-of-the-box consideration. Not sure it fits the conferences profile.
    These are all good thoughts, a handful of which I hadn't considered. But unless I missed something, I think it still comes around to one of my main questions: Isn't the issue at hand less a matter of "who makes the most sense" and more a matter of "who is the most realistic possibility at this point in time?" In terms of what the Summit is facing in the event that IPFW jumps ship and the UMKC/NMSU/Grand Canyon options don't pan out, it starts to get perilous for the Summit, unless I'm misunderstanding the situation. If Mankato and St. Cloud aren't even at the "considering the jump to D1" point right now, it seems like the Summit can't rely on either of them moving up anytime soon.

    Obviously there are a lot of hypotheticals involved, including whether or not Augie itself is even ready/able to make the jump anytime soon (which is obviously questionable at this point anyway). I'm just not seeing indications from some of the other nearby D2s that they are even considering a jump. But I'm not super plugged into the Minnesota side of this discussion, so maybe you know more right now on that front than I do.

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