Wichita State to the American Athletic Conference?

[Mr Meaty]

No they haven't. Of the teams you listed, only Southern Illinois has "recently" made the tournament, and that was 11 years ago. Southern Illinios did win 2 games that year, which is impressive. Again, that was 11 years ago.

2007 CU, S. Illinois
2008 Drake
2009 UNI
2010 UNI
2011 Indiana State
2012 CU, Wichita St.
2013 CU, Wichita St.
2014 Wichita St.
2015 UNI, Wichita St.
2016 UNI, Wichita St.

From 99-07, the MVC sent multiple teams to the tournament every year with good diversity of who was making it. Since then, they have sent one team 5 of the 10 years. During that time, 2 is the most that have made the tournament. At least one of those 2 has always been Creighton or Wichita State.

Maybe the MVC is better than the Summit, I'm not qualified to make that call. But any objective person should be able to say the MVC is a husk of what it once was. It just isn't that attractive, IMO.

The exclusion of Illinois State from this year's tournament shows the selection committee has come to terms with the reality of the MVC. I hope Summit schools understand that same reality before committing to a move, if that possibility arises. I hope they make decisions based on facts not feelings.

The money argument is a good one. IMO it is the only tangible edge the MVC holds over the Summit if WSU leaves. Jumping to the MVC without careful consideration could be like Denver jumping to the WAC. Tournament shares aren't all that great when all the cool kids have left the party.

I agree with this statement.

[HerdBot]

I think some here are so caught up in how many bids and RPI that they are losing sight of the fact that the MVC is way better than the Summit. Just because we dominate these teams in football doesn't mean we are going to in basketball. Not even close.

Missouri State is a middle of the pack Missouri Valley team and they beat us by like 25. UNI beats pretty much every Summit team by whatever they choose. Last year they beat SDSU by 30 and would have done the same to us. Illinois State beat Fort Wayne by 20 and IUPUI by 15.

Drake was the worst team in the conference and SDSU beat them by 8. (yes, Drake was 1-10 at the time) That same crappy Drake team lost to USD by 5. So the last place team in the MVC was pretty darn competitive with the Summit Conference Champion and SDSU who went dancing.

This would be like the first few years we were in the Gateway Conference. We thought since polls had us at the top we were better than UNI and we quickly found out they were so much better it was laughable.

Of course those early beat downs helped build our football program into a power. Basketball would be the same. The Summit is a minor league system for the MVC. They have a TV deal, have much more recognizable names, draw better, and are just a better all around league.

Cue to fuzzy math trying to stack the 0-2 Drake record to distort this fact.

[wow]

Curious why you started at 2007? 2006 had 4 teams in form the MVC. Yes. 4.
Witchita St, Bradley, Southern Illinois, and Northern Iowa. this included a Sweet 16 run from Bradley, and a round of 32 appearance from WSU.

The MVC might be better than the Summit. It might not be. It still held in higher regard around college basketball, and will getting tournament payouts far better than the Summit for AT LEAST 6 more years. Programs in the MVC have put resources into their program, made it competitive on a national level, branding the entire conference on a national level, and moved on to bigger and better things. Who's done that in the Summit? Oakland (On a much much smaller?)

There isn't really a reality with how they are viewed it. The MVC was down this year. That doesn't mean the Committee thinks less of the conference. It was simply down this year. It could certainly go back up next year. 2 years ago UNI was a #5 seed.

You can hate on MVC all you want. It's legitimate. Just don't pretend that staying in the Summit is going to somehow be better and more beneficial in terms of climbing a college basketball conference ladder. It's done nothing to show otherwise.

Because you said those do nothing MVC teams have made noise in the tournament in the last 10 years. I went back 11, and they haven't done crap. Your perception is that the MVC is a 900 lb gorilla, reality is they are more like an old dog that just lost their last really good tooth.

It is not held in a higher regard, currently, by the people who matter. Namely, the selection committee. The MVC is not competitive on the national level now that WSU and Creighton are gone. Teams like North Carolina won't touch an away game at UNI with a 10 foot pole now that WSU/Creighton RPI won't inflate theirs anymore. The MVC was down this year, and they will be even more down in the coming years with the exit of WSU. LOL at the possibility of the league being up next year. If the next rung of the NCAA ladder is the MVC, under the current outlook, that rung is on the verge of breaking.

[HerdBot]

Because you said those do nothing MVC teams have made noise in the tournament in the last 10 years. I went back 11, and they haven't done crap. Your perception is that the MVC is a 900 lb gorilla, reality is they are more like an old dog that just lost their last really good tooth.

It is not held in a higher regard, currently, by the people who matter. Namely, the selection committee. The MVC is not competitive on the national level now that WSU and Creighton are gone. Teams like North Carolina won't touch an away game at UNI with a 10 foot pole now that WSU/Creighton RPI won't inflate theirs anymore. The MVC was down this year, and they will be even more down in the coming years with the exit of WSU. LOL at the possibility of the league being up next year. If the next rung of the NCAA ladder is the MVC, under the current outlook, that rung is on the verge of breaking.

Wichita and Creighton were so good that they overshadowed the rest of the league which is really good. Like I said in a previous post UNI will beat every team in our conference by 20. Last year they beat SDSU by 30. Illinois State or Misouri State would have probably gone damn near undefeated in the Summitt. Heck Misouri State kicked our ass by 25 and they were a middle of the pack team. Illinois State beat Fort Wayne byt 20 and IUPUI by 15. SDSU and USD couldn't even kick the worst team in the conferences ass which was Drake. So our top 3 teams (NDSU, USD, and SDSU) had a 20 point loss to Misouri State and squeaked by Drake.

To me it would be like putting USD in the Southland conference in Football and watching them win the conference - even though they can't even make the playoffs in the MFVC.

[silkamilkamonico]

Because you said those do nothing MVC teams have made noise in the tournament in the last 10 years. I went back 11, and they haven't done crap. Your perception is that the MVC is a 900 lb gorilla, reality is they are more like an old dog that just lost their last really good tooth.

It is not held in a higher regard, currently, by the people who matter. Namely, the selection committee. The MVC is not competitive on the national level now that WSU and Creighton are gone. Teams like North Carolina won't touch an away game at UNI with a 10 foot pole now that WSU/Creighton RPI won't inflate theirs anymore. The MVC was down this year, and they will be even more down in the coming years with the exit of WSU. LOL at the possibility of the league being up next year. If the next rung of the NCAA ladder is the MVC, under the current outlook, that rung is on the verge of breaking.

No. I've repeated time and time again that the MVC just isn't very good. I'm not sure how you're missing that. No matter how much MVC has slid in the last couple year, the Summit has done NOTHING to show it can compete.

What has the Summit done? What has it done to be relevant and comparable to the MVC? Are you going to keep avoiding that argument? 1 tournament win among it's members? wow, that's dangerous, look out for those guys.

How many teams in the MVC built themselves up to bigger and better things? How many in the Summit? Are you going to continue avoiding that question as well?

What are you going to say next about the MVC when UNI builds themselves up and out of that conference to a better conference,a nd the Summit is just hoping teams like Denver don't leave them?

[HerdBot]

No. I've repeated time and time again that the MVC just isn't very good. I'm not sure how you're missing that. No matter how much MVC has slid in the last couple year, the Summit has done NOTHING to show it can compete.

What has the Summit done? What has it done to be relevant and comparable to the MVC? Are you going to keep avoiding that argument? 1 tournament win among it's members? wow, that's dangerous, look out for those guys.

How many teams in the MVC built themselves up to bigger and better things? How many in the Summit? Are you going to continue avoiding that question as well?

What are you going to say next about the MVC when UNI builds themselves up and out of that conference to a better conference,a nd the Summit is just hoping teams like Denver don't leave them?

Yeah... hey 2 of our best teams did go 2-0 vs last place Drake by narrowly beating them. And we lost to Missouri State by 20.

But in all seriousness... the Dakota schools have done a great job of investing in facilities and improving our programs. I mean NDSU and SDSU have only been D1 playoff eligible for what... less than a decade and we've already been to the Big Dance 3 times and won a game. SDSU has been there what 4 or 5 times? Even UND made it.

But that has nothing to do with the Conference... seems like ONLY the Dakota schools seem to give a fuck enough about being a good basketball school. The idea that Omaha, WIU, Fort Wayne ,etc will do the same is laughable.

[EndZoneQB]

Seriously? This is the dumbest argument and that is saying something on Bisonville.

MVC>Summit. End of story. Stop trying to make up BS excuses, the quality of basketball isn't even close to the same thing.

[HerdBot]

Seriously? This is the dumbest argument and that is saying something on Bisonville.

MVC>Summit. End of story. Stop trying to make up BS excuses, the quality of basketball isn't even close to the same thing.

I wonder if people actually believe what they say
Like you said, the MVC is better than the Summit.

[HerdBot]

For those of you guys who want to listen to some great talk on this topic...

Keith Brake has some good talk and he even has MVFC 1st & Goal podcast host Kelly Burke to weight in on this. Ketih talks about how the Horizon wants to add up to 4 teams. (5 if they lose one)

https://soundcloud.com/user-74421198...-6th-full-show

The Insiders also had a really nice segment on this

https://soundcloud.com/user-74421198...2017-full-show

[Christopher Moen]

Seriously? This is the dumbest argument and that is saying something on Bisonville.

MVC>Summit. End of story. Stop trying to make up BS excuses, the quality of basketball isn't even close to the same thing.

I'm not a basketball expert by any means, but this discussion is nearly Hall of Shame worthy. If the Summit had the merits that the MVC has, then why aren't NDSU and SDSU being approached by bigger conferences like WSU and Creighton have been? Staying in the Summit is not going to get NDSU and/or SDSU to the level those schools are at now.

Did this same issue come up for football when the school was looking into leaving the Great West Conference for the MVFC?

Not to degrade the Summit, but if NDSU and SDSU want to continue growing, they will have to take the MVC opportunity if it arises. Look at what moving to the B12 has done for wrestling for SDSU (I expect NDSU to pick it up soon). Do the Jackrabbits keep Bono as coach and get National Championship worthy wrestlers like Gross if they refused to join? Maybe Bono stays, but I don't see Gross going to Brookings.


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