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Thread: Might as well get the argument started.

  1. #1
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    Default Might as well get the argument started.

    How many of you would welcome a move to the FBS?

    Yeah, I'm a Johnny-come-lately to Bisonville, but I've been following NDSU since the late 70s, lived in Fargo quite a long time, and have never liked the big fish in a small pond mentality. I thoroughly enjoyed that game today and my hat is off to the Bison and their faithful fans once again. When it comes to winning traditions, NDSU is absolutely one of the elite programs in the country. But time has come to sit at the grown-ups table and shut up all the naysayers once and for all. The Big 10 isn't scheduling FCS teams anymore and I figure the rest of the power 5 will soon follow suit once they realize what the implications are of any of their teams losing to an FCS team. Who does that leave for the Bison to embarrass once the power 5 won't schedule them? Ball State? Idaho? UTEP? It's getting to the point where NDSU is going to have to pay them to go to Fargo for a butt whipping. For now, you have one more behemoth to knock off, but that's 4 years away. I hope they can schedule a few more before it's too late.

    I'm sure there are a number of threads on this topic, but I don't like bumping when they're older than half a dozen pages gone. Sorry.

    Where do you stand when it comes to moving up?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Might as well get the argument started.

    I'd rather play in the FCS playoffs than some MAC bowl.

    For me it's P5 or FCS and obviously P5 isn't going to happen.
    Undefeated vs UNI fans, BVille Libtards, Tony, Pulmonary Embolisms & Bad Vibes

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Might as well get the argument started.

    Always been for a move up. Let's start with a 2 for 1 with Minnesota. 2 games at tcf, 1 in Fargo

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Might as well get the argument started.

    I'd have to dig a little deeper into the bowl bid format, but at first glance it looks like the mid major at large opportunity for bigger games is virtually nil these days. Is that right? No more Boise over OU type games anymore?

    I know a P5 invite would be a real long shot, but they do like teams with a fanatical fan base. NDSU has that in spades. Honestly, what did the Big 10 have to gain by adding Maryland and Rutgers? Do they really bring that much to the table? I can't imagine that Bison Nation wouldn't dwarf either of those schools' fan base. I say they should kick those late comers to the curb and add NDSU and....Notre Dame. I know, I know, that'll never happen, but as far as raising the overall profile of the conference, it would raise the Big 10's status to the point they'd be neck and neck with the SEC. NDSU has the tools, they just need the money. Notre Dame is really going to have to join a conference to have a shot at the playoff on a regular basis. Right now they're looking at having to go unbeaten every year to have a shot. That's a hell of a lot harder to do now than it was just 10 years ago. I don't know what their beef is with the Big 10, they certainly play enough of the teams every year. OSU and Michigan would probably raise a huge stink if they ended up in the Eastern division though. NDSU has the one intangible that most of the Big 10 wished they had and can never buy and that's tradition. If you gave them Minnesota's budget, a stadium with 40K-50k capacity, and put them in the Western division, they'd play for the Big 10 title at least once every 3-4 years. We know they can compete with the Gophers and Hawkeyes. Who does that leave in the West? Wisconsin? Squeaked out a win over a winless Georgia State, who somehow went from a new FCS program in 2010 to FBS in 3 years. Nebraska? They look to be on the rebound so far this year, but losses in consecutive years to Minnesota tells you that they're just as up and down as any other team in the West. The only winning tradition that would rival NDSU in the West is Nebraska, but they've had a hell of a lot more big game losses than wins, so I'd give the Bison the edge. In the last 5 years, NDSU would have won the West probably twice. I'm certainly not the caliber of CFB fanatic who knows the dollars and cents of how the conferences operate, but adding NDSU might be a good business move. As far as the Big 12 is concerned, they have to add 2 teams just to reflect the name of the conference, and they'd better be quality teams if they want to move out of the P5 basement. NDSU with a serious budget is a good invite. They just need to find the money. You can't tell me NDSU doesn't have a Ralph Engelstad somewhere in their alumni rolls.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Might as well get the argument started.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckYufarley View Post
    You can't tell me NDSU doesn't have a Ralph Engelstad somewhere in their alumni rolls.
    You're right that it's been hashed out many times in many threads. I think if all the cards played out for a perfect hand, it would make sense. But it is really driven by money, and NDSU doesn't have a visible donor with that kind of cash. Even with a boost from P5 type TV contracts, it probably wouldn't be sustainable to cover the facilities and additional expenses that are involved with a move up.

    Find a way to make the financial side work, and I think it could happen. But that's a tall order.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Might as well get the argument started.

    No. like coach Klieman said in the presser, we're happy where we're at. Look at Appy St. and Georgia Southern. Two FCS championship-winning powerhouses that are all but irrelevant now with a move to the FBS. I would rather win championships and beat FBS teams as an FCS member. I know that people make the argument for moving up if we ever got a P5 invite, BUT, think about how that would affect the player grooming system. Yes you get more scholarships and a bigger recruiting pool, but now instead of having guys for 4-5 years and being able to build them up and really enforces the culture of excellence that is Bison football, you have guys leaving for the draft after a couple of years. You get a lot more transfers and, in my mind, a lot more difficult time creating the "hearts of champions" that we have now. I do think NDSU would move up if we got a P5 invite and if we could somehow get a bigger stadium, A LOT more money, and some of the other necessities to build the base for a good FBS program. I don't see that happening in the near future though. For now I much prefer winning championships and taking down giants instead of joining the Sunbelt where FCS greats go to die.


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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Might as well get the argument started.

    Quote Originally Posted by thebootfitter View Post
    You're right that it's been hashed out many times in many threads. I think if all the cards played out for a perfect hand, it would make sense. But it is really driven by money, and NDSU doesn't have a visible donor with that kind of cash. Even with a boost from P5 type TV contracts, it probably wouldn't be sustainable to cover the facilities and additional expenses that are involved with a move up.
    First question: How much does Team Makers contribute to the overall athletic budget? Second question: How many Big 10 schools have charitable gaming at their disposal to raise money?

    I was in Manhattan a couple months after the K State win and I couldn't believe a city as modest as that was home to an FBS team and Fargo wasn't. A stadium like theirs, in Fargo, would be perfect and according to the wikipedia on Bill Snyder Family Football Stadium, the 2016 adjusted construction cost is a fraction of the original cost to build the Fargodome. Don't give me the sad argument all the wusses in Minnesota had about needing a new dome instead of an open air stadium either. Yeah, an NFL playoff game outside in Minneapolis would be harsh, but a late November game outside in Fargo would be a cakewalk. The first 8 rings came at Dacotah Field, remember. Look at the success there's been with the different events that have been added in Fargo over the last couple decades. Rib Fest, Blues Fest, marathon, street fair, etc. There has to be a way to capitalize on all the disposable income spent in Fargo on a yearly basis for the benefit of that program. I've seem OU fans and Husker fans in their home environments during their days of Big 8 domination and the way they lived for those teams bordered on hysteria. That's what happens though when that's the only show in town (sound familiar?) and that's what it takes to build those kinds of programs. If NDSU had moved to I-AA when they built the Fargodome, like they should have, they could have had 10 years of FBS caliber fund raising under their belts now and nobody would be wondering if they could move up.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Might as well get the argument started.

    Quote Originally Posted by BisonEngrGirl View Post
    No. like coach Klieman said in the presser, we're happy where we're at. Look at Appy St. and Georgia Southern. Two FCS championship-winning powerhouses that are all but irrelevant now with a move to the FBS. I would rather win championships and beat FBS teams as an FCS member. I know that people make the argument for moving up if we ever got a P5 invite, BUT, think about how that would affect the player grooming system. Yes you get more scholarships and a bigger recruiting pool, but now instead of having guys for 4-5 years and being able to build them up and really enforces the culture of excellence that is Bison football, you have guys leaving for the draft after a couple of years. You get a lot more transfers and, in my mind, a lot more difficult time creating the "hearts of champions" that we have now. I do think NDSU would move up if we got a P5 invite and if we could somehow get a bigger stadium, A LOT more money, and some of the other necessities to build the base for a good FBS program. I don't see that happening in the near future though. For now I much prefer winning championships and taking down giants instead of joining the Sunbelt where FCS greats go to die.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You read what I said about the future of P5 scheduling FCS teams, right? In 5 years College Game Day will give no consideration to Fargo when the Bison are beating teams whose conference they should be winning every year. They have Oregon in 4 years, but for now, that's it. Beating Iowa basically knocked the entire Big 10 West down to Mountain West status if the Hawkeyes do well in their division. Just imagine if somehow Iowa ends up back in the Big 10 Championship and plays Ohio State to the wire like they did with Michigan State last year. The brain trusts who pick those four playoff teams would trace the OSU strength of schedule all the way back to Iowa's loss to NDSU, and that could tip the balance as to whether or the Bucks make the cut. Now what P5 conference is going to want to risk that kind of snafu that would keep them out of the National Championship? Pretty soon, all the Bison will have to beat up on in the FBS are scrubs.

    Do you remember how uninspired and unexciting things got when Rocky and Dr. Bob wouldn't even play a non-conference game away from home for more than a decade? I think the biggest win they had to hang their hats on for quite a few years was against the vaunted Maine Black Bears. Wow, huh? Big fish, small pond thinking. Watching how Carson Wentz was talked down leading up to the draft because he "never played a decent team" was excruciating. L.A. and Cleveland are both going to regret listening to that garbage for years to come. Not 5 minutes after the win yesterday and I'm listening to some Fox Sports radio know-it-all discount NDSU for their "lack of quality athletes" and I wanted to wring the guy's neck. Seriously, no matter the successes the Bison have had, no matter how many FCS titles they win or FBS teams they beat, to the rest of the country they'll always be a novelty. Considering how the public loves to knock icons off their pedestals, win 2 or 3 more FCS title in the next few years and they'll start looking for a reason to hate the Bison despite their image. As far as Appalachian State and Georgia Southern are concerned, it sure doesn't help their cause when they have to recruit in SEC country. They had really good FCS programs, no doubt, but it took GSU 15 seasons to do what NDSU has done in 5, and App State had a brief spurt of success but one three year span means nothing when it comes to tradition the way 50 years of committing to building winners like NDSU has had. Remember how many SEC transfers JSU had? I'm sure both GSU and App State benefited from a number of those during their years in I-AA. Apples and oranges.
    Last edited by ChuckYufarley; 09-18-2016 at 09:55 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Might as well get the argument started.

    Good Lord, what do they give you to write a decent comment before you get logged off, like 3 minutes? Can I change that?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Might as well get the argument started.

    Lol SEC isn't scared of FCS like big10

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