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Thread: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

  1. #261
    kab1one is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyBison View Post
    @kan1one...that is common of many D3 schools in the Midwest especially. In the conference i officiate in it's not uncommon to have 60-70 freshmen on the football roster of 120 students. They pay a JV schedule to keep as many engaged as possible. They use athletics in general to recruit students to the university knowing many of them will not stick with their sport due to numbers. But once they are on campus for a year and make friends they are not committed to the school even if they do their sport. I've generally heard 40-60% of freshmen at most of these D3 schools are athletes. It's not a bad strategy.

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    Can D3 offer athletic scholarships or only academic? UJ as an NAIA can do both. Whereas Concordia MN only gives academic. Concordia dropped tuition $15k, but also cut back on financial aid/scholarships, so at the end of the day, the cost was the same. Whereas UJ with the lower cost starting point than Concordia, St. Thomas, St. Johns, (Augustana and U Sioux Falls were about same starting point 32K as UJ). The scholarship UJ offers makes the starting point similar to NDSU. .

    So in the case the NAIA school has an advantage of the D3 and to some extent the D2 schools.

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    Default Re: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by kab1one View Post
    Can D3 offer athletic scholarships or only academic? UJ as an NAIA can do both. Whereas Concordia MN only gives academic. Concordia dropped tuition $15k, but also cut back on financial aid/scholarships, so at the end of the day, the cost was the same. Whereas UJ with the lower cost starting point than Concordia, St. Thomas, St. Johns, (Augustana and U Sioux Falls were about same starting point 32K as UJ). The scholarship UJ offers makes the starting point similar to NDSU. .

    So in the case the NAIA school has an advantage of the D3 and to some extent the D2 schools.
    Define "athletic" and "academic." I think I've got these guys buckled down. Private schools all have intimidating sticker prices. But if you fit something they want, they drive the price down through all sorts of scholarships.

    My cousin ran at an Ivy. She's smart but not Ivy-smart, she got her price down to about NDSU level. Even after she quit track, still got to keep all of her scholarships because they weren't "athletic", they were "we think you'll do fine here and we'll get the price to a reasonable amount" scholarships.

    Another cousin went to Harvard. Wicked smahht. Also paid a similar total as the athlete I believe. What was the one thing they had in common? Similar socioecomics.

    One fit in for sports and they knew she'd be fine academically. The other fit in for academics and they knew needed to get the price to a good spot so that going there wouldn't be cost-prohibitive.

    For law school, I go to a small private school out east. They offered me some silly 2/3 tuition scholarship for "my achievements in academics" or something silly like that. Well, I had a trash GPA (2.7ish) at NDSU. Granted I did very well on the LSAT but roughly only a point or two above median for my class.

    This tells me private schools have high sticker prices that nearly nobody is paying. I'm sure some do pay it. I have some exceptionally wealthy classmates who didn't get into the elite law schools. The types who grew up going to elementary schools that cost 40-50K/year. I suspect those are the only people (adjust by region of country) paying sticker.

    So this makes me think they look at a middle class kid and say "let's get the price to where the parents will not be scared shitless" and for the wealthy ones, maybe not so much. This is 100% a theory, and every private school is gonna tinker a bit, but I think it holds water.
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    Default Re: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyBison View Post
    @kan1one...that is common of many D3 schools in the Midwest especially. In the conference i officiate in it's not uncommon to have 60-70 freshmen on the football roster of 120 students. They pay a JV schedule to keep as many engaged as possible. They use athletics in general to recruit students to the university knowing many of them will not stick with their sport due to numbers. But once they are on campus for a year and make friends they are not committed to the school even if they do their sport. I've generally heard 40-60% of freshmen at most of these D3 schools are athletes. It's not a bad strategy.

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    NAIA does the same thing. My daughter has been to Presentation College in Aberdeen a few times for indoor soccer events, and they have 304 student athletes with an enrollment of 445. Even Jamestown has 506 student athletes (only 42 less than NDSU) with an enrollment of 867 (all numbers from 2018 OPE)

    At a lot of smaller schools, athletics are the only way to maintain or grow enrollment. Basically pay to play for big kids and a way to drive up enrollment.
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    Default Re: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Bisonguy View Post
    NAIA does the same thing. My daughter has been to Presentation College in Aberdeen a few times for indoor soccer events, and they have 304 student athletes with an enrollment of 445. Even Jamestown has 506 student athletes (only 42 less than NDSU) with an enrollment of 867 (all numbers from 2018 OPE)

    At a lot of smaller schools, athletics are the only way to maintain or grow enrollment. Basically pay to play for big kids and a way to drive up enrollment.
    I thought i heard that 90% of all Mayville State students are on athletic assistance?
    NDSU TO FBS. HAVEN'T WE WON ENOUGH?

  5. #265
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    Default Re: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by kab1one View Post
    Can D3 offer athletic scholarships or only academic? UJ as an NAIA can do both. Whereas Concordia MN only gives academic. Concordia dropped tuition $15k, but also cut back on financial aid/scholarships, so at the end of the day, the cost was the same. Whereas UJ with the lower cost starting point than Concordia, St. Thomas, St. Johns, (Augustana and U Sioux Falls were about same starting point 32K as UJ). The scholarship UJ offers makes the starting point similar to NDSU. .

    So in the case the NAIA school has an advantage of the D3 and to some extent the D2 schools.
    Only academic for D3. The more they want to recruit an athlete, the more money they will offer. Ability to pay and academic performance will also help. How much depends entirely on the school though. We had an exchange student who was very smart and also a really good swimmer. He was recruited by a couple smaller schools but mostly be a D3 school. Their full cost (tuition/room/board) was $48k/year and they got him down to $14k/year with grants, scholarships, and a small loan (international so wasn't able to borrow money locally). My oldest son applied to another local private school with a total sticker of $62k. They offered him $25k in scholarships, but it was still $37k/year. A friend of ours has a son who was a great baseball player and his scholarships were not much more. Our impression of the school is they target wealthy families from Indy and Chicago (we met a lot of them on campus visits) or low-income minorities. There isn't a lot in between. They also use athletics as a big hook. This isn't necessarily true nationwide, but around here the D3 schools are generally better academic universities than NAIA. NAIA also has fewer academic requirements for eligibility so they can accept students that wouldn't otherwise be approved by NCAA eligibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness View Post
    Define "athletic" and "academic." I think I've got these guys buckled down. Private schools all have intimidating sticker prices. But if you fit something they want, they drive the price down through all sorts of scholarships.

    This tells me private schools have high sticker prices that nearly nobody is paying. I'm sure some do pay it. I have some exceptionally wealthy classmates who didn't get into the elite law schools. The types who grew up going to elementary schools that cost 40-50K/year. I suspect those are the only people (adjust by region of country) paying sticker.

    So this makes me think they look at a middle class kid and say "let's get the price to where the parents will not be scared shitless" and for the wealthy ones, maybe not so much. This is 100% a theory, and every private school is gonna tinker a bit, but I think it holds water.
    I think there is a lot of truth to this. Some of these schools will determine the cost per student they need to meet their financials. Let's say it's $40k. They can put a sticker price of $65k and offer a scholarship of $20k to most students that doesn't actually cost them anything. They still come out ahead on that student. These schools will often use "meets needs" model and those who have very high FAFSA numbers (ours is 42000 which is a joke!) don't get as much of a financial aid package. International students often pay full freight. In Indiana, Rose-Hulman (one of the top engineering-only schools in the country) has a higher sticker price than Notre Dame. Some of their reputation is based on the cost to attend, and I think a lot of private schools do that.

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    Default Re: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by El_Chapo View Post
    I thought i heard that 90% of all Mayville State students are on athletic assistance?
    Very possible and makes sense the smaller the school.

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    Default Re: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by El_Chapo View Post
    I thought i heard that 90% of all Mayville State students are on athletic assistance?
    192/604= 32%. Not quite 90%. The receive plenty of state money, reducing the dependence of athletics to drive enrollment.
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  8. #268
    kab1one is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyBison View Post
    Only academic for D3. The more they want to recruit an athlete, the more money they will offer. Ability to pay and academic performance will also help. How much depends entirely on the school though. We had an exchange student who was very smart and also a really good swimmer. He was recruited by a couple smaller schools but mostly be a D3 school. Their full cost (tuition/room/board) was $48k/year and they got him down to $14k/year with grants, scholarships, and a small loan (international so wasn't able to borrow money locally). My oldest son applied to another local private school with a total sticker of $62k. They offered him $25k in scholarships, but it was still $37k/year. A friend of ours has a son who was a great baseball player and his scholarships were not much more. Our impression of the school is they target wealthy families from Indy and Chicago (we met a lot of them on campus visits) or low-income minorities. There isn't a lot in between. They also use athletics as a big hook. This isn't necessarily true nationwide, but around here the D3 schools are generally better academic universities than NAIA. NAIA also has fewer academic requirements for eligibility so they can accept students that wouldn't otherwise be approved by NCAA eligibility.



    I think there is a lot of truth to this. Some of these schools will determine the cost per student they need to meet their financials. Let's say it's $40k. They can put a sticker price of $65k and offer a scholarship of $20k to most students that doesn't actually cost them anything. They still come out ahead on that student. These schools will often use "meets needs" model and those who have very high FAFSA numbers (ours is 42000 which is a joke!) don't get as much of a financial aid package. International students often pay full freight. In Indiana, Rose-Hulman (one of the top engineering-only schools in the country) has a higher sticker price than Notre Dame. Some of their reputation is based on the cost to attend, and I think a lot of private schools do that.
    My recent experience with two high school seniors in the past 3 years. St. Johns and St. Thomas started out in the upper 50's to low 60's depending on room and board. Due to scholarship, ACT's and financial aid. Cost in low to mid 20's.

    Concordia started in the upper 40's, but "only" dropped to the low 30's. So St. Johns and St. Thomas were 5-10K less expensive than Concordia (Moorhead).

    Concordia (and U Sioux Falls) both dropped "top line" tuition by $15K and 10K respectfully. Concordia promptly lower scholarship money. So the net cost dropped from low 30's to High 20K range.

    Jamestown started at $32K, and after scholarships low teens.

    U Mary was comparable to Jamestown, but as a D2 program you could get money from both Athletics and Academics.

    So for the 10-12 private schools the 2 kids looked at the average range was in the 20'S.

    Oldest asked is there any difference in an accounting degree from St. Johns or Thomas versus NDSU that you can justify 15K more a year to attend? I said not really, you might meet more people from around the country.

    Kid said I'll save the 60K buy a rental house and went to NDSU>

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    Default Re: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

    http://www.gpacsports.com/SIDHelp/m/...p#.YD-hl9xMFhE

    A player who perhaps should have been offered......*
    Maybe roster numbers prevented it, but at least a PWO by NDSU might have made his school choice tougher. Mason Walters and Boden Skunberg were quite the combo on Jamestown’s state championship team.

    *wonder if Pucknut & other Jimmies fans think he is a grad transfer prospect in the future???

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    Default Re: University of Jamestown to the Great Plains Athletic Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by bruinbison View Post
    http://www.gpacsports.com/SIDHelp/m/...p#.YD-hl9xMFhE

    A player who perhaps should have been offered......*
    Maybe roster numbers prevented it, but at least a PWO by NDSU might have made his school choice tougher. Mason Walters and Boden Skunberg were quite the combo on Jamestown’s state championship team.

    *wonder if Pucknut & other Jimmies fans think he is a grad transfer prospect in the future???
    Walters has really taken his game to new heights at U of J. He is really fun to watch out on the court. Could that transfer to same level of play at D1? With his work ethic I am thinking it would be a yes.
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